Mass Effect 2 *spoilers around pg 29/30*

[Sjofn]

I like Kaiden fine, you people just have post-Carth issues! And Jacob ... poor Jacob. I want to like him. He's just so boring. :(

New guy DOES look like a douchebag, though.

Also I am sort of glad Ashley is totally dead in all my saves, because I really do not like her new look at all. It doesn't look like Ashley to me.

[Merusk]

He looks like the kind of guy who's going to call you "Brah."   I hope you can punch or lead him to his death in multiple ways.

[caladein]

It doesn't look like Ashley to me.

That's the thing for me.  Like, it's an awesome looking outfit, reminds me a bit of Mari from the new Evangelion movies, but that's not really Ash's look.  Hopefully she has a more Kaiden (or Miranda's DLC armor) -like alternative available.

[tmp]

There's prompt clarification from the executive producer on twitter re: Ashley's outfit

Also lots of questions about Ashley. We've only showed her in a jacket outfit & its CE variant. She will also have full armor and helmet.

sounds she'll be ok after all.

also from the same source, the faces on the screenshots aren't final, "in particular James and Liara". So there's hope for the universal soldier guy yet.

[Sjofn]

Her hair bugs me more than anything, though. Seriously, hair in the face when you're trying to do anything but look hot = ANNOYING AS SHIT.

But again, she's dead. Dead! So whatever. :P

[Ingmar]

Maybe she's pulling out all the stops in trying to win Shepherd back from Miranda. (Won't work.)

[Strazos]

Maybe she's pulling out all the stops in trying to win Shepherd back from Miranda. (Won't work.)

At least in my primary campaign...she's more than welcome to try. 

[Amaron]

This is opening a potential can of worms but have they discussed whether Ashley is going to take a chill pill on her religion stuff?   I never minded that she was but the way they did it in ME1 was so in your face.

[tmp]

Her hair bugs me more than anything, though. Seriously, hair in the face when you're trying to do anything but look hot = ANNOYING AS SHIT.

But again, she's dead. Dead! So whatever. :P

Since she's also wearing that formal outfit thing with it maybe she's just letting hair down in the opening during Shepard's trial or something, and switches back to something sensible once she's in armour and whatnot. At least, there's hoping.

This is opening a potential can of worms but have they discussed whether Ashley is going to take a chill pill on her religion stuff?   I never minded that she was but the way they did it in ME1 was so in your face.

Didn't think it was done any different from the assari exclaiming "by the Goddess!" every third sentence, tbh.

[Amaron]

Didn't think it was done any different from the assari exclaiming "by the Goddess!" every third sentence, tbh.

It only really came out if you tried to romance her if I recall.   It was a long time ago so I'm a bit sketchy.   I just remember it being kind of in your face out of the blue.   There was a fair amount of grumbling over it of course too.

[tmp]

Ahh could be a reason then. My Shepards are female like the Goddess intended  So no Ashley romance for them... though apparently there's going to be option to change that in ME3.

[Shrike]

Her hair bugs me more than anything, though. Seriously, hair in the face when you're trying to do anything but look hot = ANNOYING AS SHIT.

But again, she's dead. Dead! So whatever. :P

New look to go with the new job. She's been busy since Horizon. Word is she's a Spectre now.

Or Kaiden, for those of you unfortunate enough to be stuck with him. This one I can't seen in that role, but you all made your decision back on Vermire. 

[Stormwaltz]

I never minded that she was but the way they did it in ME1 was so in your face.

She mentioned it precisely once in the entire game (unless you count a possible mention of "someone watching over (Shepard)" in one dialogue response).

I sometimes wonder if people were so annoyed by that because I gave them the option to respond to her "That's not a problem, is it?" with anything from "God has no place on my boat" to "I believe too."

[tmp]

I sometimes wonder if people were so annoyed by that because I gave them the option to respond to her "That's not a problem, is it?" with anything from "God has no place on my boat" to "I believe too."

You have to remember the effect of hyperbole and love of the black/white filter. Apparently having a reluctant and cautious attitude towards the aliens means one is a die-hard xenophobe, too. Even if they openly criticize some actual xenophobes.

[Amaron]

She mentioned it precisely once in the entire game (unless you count a possible mention of "someone watching over (Shepard)" in one dialogue response).

Man now you have me wanting to find the actual lines and see them again.    I seem to remember a big part of the problem being how she talked about the way religion worked in Mass Effect.

[Ingmar]

It was pretty natural dialogue around something you'd expect to come up in a relationship, IMO. It was basically "hey before we go too far down this path, I'm religious. Is that going to be an issue?" And then some stuff that was basically exposition to put it in 'what is religion like in Mass Effect future time'.

EDIT: On the other hand the alien stuff did come across to me as "I'm not racist, but..."

[Amaron]

It was pretty natural dialogue around something you'd expect to come up in a relationship, IMO. It was basically "hey before we go too far down this path, I'm religious. Is that going to be an issue?" And then some stuff that was basically exposition to put it in 'what is religion like in Mass Effect future time'.

Yea it didn't come across as her being some sort of nut or anything.    It's really hard to remember honestly.   Perhaps it came across so bad because it was on top of her racism.

[Sjofn]

The God stuff was fine, I had a much bigger problem with her attitude towards aliens. Her "cautious attitude" really came across as racist to me. Yeah, she says she's not down with the even bigger racists, but that doesn't stop her from being a racist. You can think the Klan goes overboard and still be a racist yourself, after all.

It didn't bother me in a "her character was bad!" way, mind you. It would've been weirder for no one to have an issue with aliens, you know? Honestly, ME2 could've used some anti-alien racism on the Cerberus ship, given how HUMANS >>>>>>>>> EVERYONE the organization supposedly is.

[Mazakiel]

I always chalked the overall mellowness of the crew in ME2 as TIM purposefully finding people who were either okay overall with aliens or could hide their dislike well. 

[Amaron]

I always chalked the overall mellowness of the crew in ME2 as TIM purposefully finding people who were either okay overall with aliens or could hide their dislike well. 

That's really the problem with Ashley though in some ways too.   The only(ME1) female human to show any romantic interest in the first human Spectre is a bit of a Xenophobe?  That would of looked great from the councils point of view.

[tmp]

Her "cautious attitude" really came across as racist to me. Yeah, she says she's not down with the even bigger racists, but that doesn't stop her from being a racist.

I found it pragmatic when you consider both what the first human-alien contact looked like, and the shit dominant species of ME universe actually did pull on other species in order to save their own asses. Neither turians nor salarians were exactly "oh gods we're both sentient species can't we just hug it out" with the krogans once messing with the krogans bit them on the collective rears, and the assari apparently weren't all "they're people like us and you'll drop that xenophage on them over our dead bodies" either. It's only reasonable to expect humans are viewed in similar light -- that is, actual aliens, i.e. beings not included in one's own survival instinct and as such more expandable should push come to shove.

The "Ashley you racist" stuff is mostly funny when at the same time people apparently find it perfectly fine to hate on batarians just for being batarians.

[Mazakiel]

With Ashley, while she's dead in the playthrough I'll be carrying forward into ME3, I could understand where her attitude of aliens came from.  Especially once you learn about her family history. 

[Sjofn]

The "Ashley you racist" stuff is mostly funny when at the same time people apparently find it perfectly fine to hate on batarians just for being batarians.

I will acknowledge my hate of batarians is 100% racist, though, rather than fussing that I'm not racist, but ...

And I am sorry, I am just not buying the "but but but, it totally makes sense, aliens shot at us!" I think racial profiling is bullshit, too. And that's what you guys are excusing, here. 

[Maledict]

I had the weird experience at the end of ME1 of taking Garrus and Ashley to the final fight, and because their dialogue depends purely on their party order I had Garrus telling me to abandon thie council, and Ashley telling me we needed to save the aliens for galactic harmony...

[Amaron]

Ashley is a straight up Xenophobe though.   That's taking it a bit further than "let's hate this race which is likely to attempt to attack and enslave me".

[tmp]

And I am sorry, I am just not buying the "but but but, it totally makes sense, aliens shot at us!" I think racial profiling is bullshit, too. And that's what you guys are excusing, here.  

Well, the thing is her view of "if the aliens have to choose between them and us, they'll choose them" is based on facts -- given choice between deaths of freshly met, totally unknown intelligent species and the risk of opening unknown relay the turians did choose the former. Given the choice between lives of their own and existence of the krogans the turians, salarians and the asari did choose the former. And they keep choosing the former. On the other hand i can't really think off the bat of examples that'd actually support the opposite viewpoint.

[LK]

Surprised this hasn't branched off into a ME3 thread.

[tmp]

That's taking it a bit further than "let's hate this race which is likely to attempt to attack and enslave me".

That's racial profiling already.

[Ingmar]

And I am sorry, I am just not buying the "but but but, it totally makes sense, aliens shot at us!" I think racial profiling is bullshit, too. And that's what you guys are excusing, here.  

Well, the thing is her view of "if the aliens have to choose between them and us, they'll choose them" is based on facts -- given choice between deaths of freshly met, totally unknown intelligent species and the risk of opening unknown relay the turians did choose the former. Given the choice between lives of their own and existence of the krogans the turians, salarians and the asari did choose the former. And they keep choosing the former. On the other hand i can't really think off the bat of examples that'd actually support the opposite viewpoint.

There might be something around the jellyfish-lizard man relationship that fits, maybe.

[tmp]

I thought about that, but doesn't the lizard people wind up effectively servants of the jellyfish, and doesn't staying on the jellyfish planet actually kill them in the long run? And yet no one else is stepping up to the plate, offering to relocate them and give them a better place to live.

[Ingmar]

Well, the lizards are putting the well-being of the jellyfish who helped them ahead of their own, more or less?

[tmp]

Ahh. From this angle yeah, i guess it can be seen this way. Although the whole "you saved our lives so they now belong to you" honour code thinking may be muddling it somewhat, not sure.

edit: also, if i understand it right, large part of why teh lizard people stay there is the same reason why they accepted the jellyfish offer in the first place? That is, they have no means to relocate on their own and nowhere else to go.

[Rasix]

Surprised this hasn't branched off into a ME3 thread.

The complaint level has not overcome my laziness.  Yet.

[Azuredream]

I'm sorry, I can't help giggling at all the serious talk detailing lizard-jellyfish relations.

[tmp]

I don't think it's entirely serious... there's no mention of tentacle sex play and charts, yet.