Thinking about resubbing.

[Lantyssa]

My rod of furblog transformation is still intact! I'm going to be bitter as hell if they actually make it usable only in ashenvale.

Um... uh... 

[Delmania]

Because no one cares, I did actually resub, and have been working on leveling my warlock and getting her tradeskills up.  Additionally, a friend and I have been working through the lower content with a druid and shaman combination, and like everyone else, I've got an UInholy Deathknight.  So far it's been enjoyable.

[bhodi]

Um... uh... 

I read they were fixing the tooltip to remove the 'only usable in ashenvale' thing, not that they were breaking it's use.

[Lantyssa]

I hope not since I turned that quest in two days ago because it wouldn't work outside of Ashenvale.

[bhodi]

The tooltip says it won't, but it does. I'm using it right now.

Also, you can have the rod with no quest, just don't accept the final 'go back' quest from the shrine.

[Lantyssa]

Nooooooooooooooooooo!

[Koyasha]

I don't even see why there needs to be a system to measure skill in place. Would the populace revolt if you could get almost-the-best (or even the best) gear from battlegrounds? Didn't we already have this in TBC? Did anyone really hate that enough to say 'screw this, I'm quitting' ?

(Gogo equalized arena gear)

Frankly yes, it would piss me off, and it's not just because they're getting good gear they don't deserve.  It's because they'd be going into battlegrounds to gain the honor/marks needed for the gear, but not participating or doing anything useful.  And yes, the better the gear you could get from battlegrounds in burning crusade, the more of these jackasses kept joining, and the harder it was to join a BG where people were actually using effective strategies to try to win.  I eventually gave up on the battlegrounds entirely because of that.

I want a system that measures battleground contribution because it would mean people have to actually do things to WIN the damn battleground instead of screwing around and being stupid.  Maybe, just maybe, if they got no rewards when they did that, they might start to catch on that what they're doing isn't useful, and start being useful.  Or they'd quit joining battlegrounds.  Win/win either way.  So yeah, really really hard, maybe impossible to implement, but if such a system could really be designed and added I would be happy.

[Hindenburg]

Maybe, just maybe, if they got no rewards when they did that, they might start to catch on that what they're doing isn't useful, and start being useful.  Or they'd quit joining battlegrounds.  Win/win either way. 

There's a catch.

[Shrike]

Bad idea. If there's no rewards for doing BGs, most folks won't do battlegrounds.

I did a lot of BGs in the TBC era. Iniitally, it was just because I wanted my axes, since TBC shaman weapon itemization was so piss poor. After I got my first axe (and Prince finally coughed up a Decapitator--the miserable bastard), then I decided I actually (usually) enjoyed them and wanted to do better, so I farmed up my entire set, along with another axe. After that, I had the staying power (since shamans aren't particularly well suited to PvP either now or then) I could just run them and generally have a pretty good time, especially with guildies.

Nowadays, there's no--and I mean none whatsoever-- reason for me to engage in PvP at all, much less BGs. Arenas are a complete waste of time. There's no way I'll get any kind of significant rating for the totems (fuck you Blizzard) or even the weapons (which fortunately I don't need--but fuck you anyway Blizzard for not even putting in one PvE axe). There's even less reason for BGs. Why the hell should I do these if I get nothing, and I mean zilch, zero, nada for doing them? As a shaman, I'm overal dependent on my teammates. I don't contribute that much (unless someone is stupid enough to let me get close). Essentially, there's not loot carrot to make up for a suckass experience.

So if you BGs to be a wasteland barely populated by nothing but rogues, DKs, and ret/holy pallies, well, I guess that's what you have.  It used to be Rampage had 30+ AV queues on primetime. Now it's like 6. Yeah, this BG thing is going places--down the drain.

[Azuredream]

I don't even see why there needs to be a system to measure skill in place. Would the populace revolt if you could get almost-the-best (or even the best) gear from battlegrounds? Didn't we already have this in TBC? Did anyone really hate that enough to say 'screw this, I'm quitting' ?

(Gogo equalized arena gear)

Frankly yes, it would piss me off, and it's not just because they're getting good gear they don't deserve.  It's because they'd be going into battlegrounds to gain the honor/marks needed for the gear, but not participating or doing anything useful.  And yes, the better the gear you could get from battlegrounds in burning crusade, the more of these jackasses kept joining, and the harder it was to join a BG where people were actually using effective strategies to try to win.  I eventually gave up on the battlegrounds entirely because of that.

I want a system that measures battleground contribution because it would mean people have to actually do things to WIN the damn battleground instead of screwing around and being stupid.  Maybe, just maybe, if they got no rewards when they did that, they might start to catch on that what they're doing isn't useful, and start being useful.  Or they'd quit joining battlegrounds.  Win/win either way.  So yeah, really really hard, maybe impossible to implement, but if such a system could really be designed and added I would be happy.

No matter what gear undeserved people get, would it really matter to you? There will always be bad/stupid players in BGs, that will never change, because a lot of people that play just aren't that good or just don't care.

[Sheepherder]

No matter what gear undeserved people get, would it really matter to you? There will always be bad/stupid players in BGs, that will never change, because a lot of people that play just aren't that good or just don't care.

And now they're in Naxx-25, getting epics.

[Azuredream]

No matter what gear undeserved people get, would it really matter to you? There will always be bad/stupid players in BGs, that will never change, because a lot of people that play just aren't that good or just don't care.

And now they're in Naxx-25, getting epics.

And the game is clearly dying because of it.

[WindupAtheist]

While I'm all for fucking BG AFK'ers to death with a hot poker, the "You shouldn't get any points for fighting midfield, Warsong Gulch is SERIOUS BZNS!!1!" people can go get fucked too.

[Delmania]

For me, the real question is, why the hell is gear the reward?  Gear has always been a means to end.   Making it the end itself was always a bad idea imho.

[Koyasha]

No matter what gear undeserved people get, would it really matter to you? There will always be bad/stupid players in BGs, that will never change, because a lot of people that play just aren't that good or just don't care.

Miss the rest of it?  That part doesn't matter to me much, but the fact that the gear encourages those people to join battlegrounds in sufficient numbers that it is clear idiot and afker participation massively increases when good gear is available through that method means that giving out undeserved gear causes me to have to deal with more idiots just to do battlegrounds.

Sure, there will always be some, but the numbers go up drastically when there's good gear on the line.

[Hindenburg]

And you're not running a premade because...?

[Koyasha]

I've gathered together enough people to try a couple times after the patch that made groups larger than 5 go into a completely separate queue.  15+ minute queue times stopped most of them from ever trying again.  Premades fighting only premades seems to mean very few people queue as one.

[Hindenburg]

So you're still playing in groups of 5, right?

[Sheepherder]

No matter what gear undeserved people get, would it really matter to you? There will always be bad/stupid players in BGs, that will never change, because a lot of people that play just aren't that good or just don't care.

And now they're in Naxx-25, getting epics.

And the game is clearly dying because of it.

Yes, so the only fix is to cockblock the fuck out of all content.

Totally missing the point, dude.

For me, the real question is, why the hell is gear the reward?  Gear has always been a means to end.   Making it the end itself was always a bad idea imho.

Player: Please, please, please release a Season 4 Arena and don't introduce ANY new gear.  Then I think you will have a VERY good indication how popular the Arena is on its own merits.

Kalgan: About as popular as a Sunwell without any loot in it?

Say what you like about him, HRose has a gift for finding relevant quotes.

That part doesn't matter to me much, but the fact that the gear encourages those people to join battlegrounds in sufficient numbers that it is clear idiot and afker participation massively increases when good gear is available through that method means that giving out undeserved gear causes me to have to deal with more idiots just to do battlegrounds.

If they weren't there you would spend your time getting rolled by good teams half the time rather than spending half the time arguing with bads on your team and rolling others solo.  Neither way is significantly easier.

[Llyse]

I hope this isnt too late, but if you take mining, beg, borrow or steal the +5 mining enchant. Mithril and Thorium are still totally painful to level, at least on my server, where one other person can seriously depress the spawns available in a zone. The crappy way that mithril and thorium are spread through zones mixed with other ore makes 2 people mining a very frustrating affair.

I wouldn't mix mining and herbing, myself. Switching tracking is a huge pita, IMO. Mining/skinning is a lot less of a hassle.

I just leveled up my dk's skills at 69 to go along with my move to Northrend. I will never level another miner again, unless for some bizarre reason I am starting a character from L1. I took a brief break to hit 70 in northrend so I could grab a flying mount for outland mining which helped a ton with leveling through there and even there the +5 mining gloves meant I didnt have to skip all those khorium veins.

Has anyone ever figured out what changed between old world mining and outland, because I find it way easier to mine in outlands, even with a bunch of active miners in the zone? Is the spawn time faster or is their just way more nodes?

Too late sadly. 

But still greatly appreciated Phred! 

Switching back and forth between herb and minerals isn't so painful. It's more leveling mining. My herbalism is 322 while my mining is 275 and I've been actively looking for metal nodes and just picking up random pre-BC herbs. 

My next DK alt is definitely going herbs and skinning. They money from old minerals is very very solid though.

Thorium is 50ish gold per stack, Mithril high 30s. Iron and Tin were 15-20ish gold. Pretty awesome. 

back to the old topic of afkers in BGs. -- Arena should go back to having welfare epics to allow part timers get some upgrades.

Catasses Duelists will always get their full set of Gladiator gear as soon as they humanely can, so why not offer a carrot to the casuals.

Sure don't give us the full set, but 2/3 pieces would go a long way to letting us stay within shouting distance.

But carry on. 

Edit: for readability

[Delmania]

For me, the real question is, why the hell is gear the reward?  Gear has always been a means to end.   Making it the end itself was always a bad idea imho.

Player: Please, please, please release a Season 4 Arena and don't introduce ANY new gear.  Then I think you will have a VERY good indication how popular the Arena is on its own merits.

Kalgan: About as popular as a Sunwell without any loot in it?

Say what you like about him, HRose has a gift for finding relevant quotes.

Kalgan is only half right.  I am fine with people doing the Arena for a purple, I am not fine with letting them use those purples in the Arena.  I tend to think of it along the lines of a sponsoried sporting even or league.  Teams are allowed to bring their own equipment so long as it falls within the regulation, and any gear that offers a significant advantage is not allowed.  The Arena enforce only half of that.  I'd rather they offer people a choice from a set of predetermined sets to use at the start of a match.

[Hindenburg]

I've always been partial to the idea that everyone chooses from predefined sets of gear when entering the arena/bg/whatevs, and, as they gain points, they buy the right to use those sets outside of the arena.

[Lantyssa]

That really would make more sense.

[Selby]

I've always been partial to the idea that everyone chooses from predefined sets of gear when entering the arena/bg/whatevs, and, as they gain points, they buy the right to use those sets outside of the arena.

I really don't understand why it would be so hard.  It's quite a simple idea that I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

[Gobbeldygook]

You're not to see gear from BGs be as good as what you from arenas or raiding, much less have all gear and character progression removed, until they find some satisfactory way to get you to develop an emotional connection to the other players in BGs.  If all you do is log in, do some dailies, queue up by yourself for BGs, and log out, it's very easy for any setback in the game (like a nerf to your class) to make you cancel because there's no feeling that you're abandoning your friends because you have never had a reason to make any.

[Dren]

You're not to see gear from BGs be as good as what you from arenas or raiding, much less have all gear and character progression removed, until they find some satisfactory way to get you to develop an emotional connection to the other players in BGs.  If all you do is log in, do some dailies, queue up by yourself for BGs, and log out, it's very easy for any setback in the game (like a nerf to your class) to make you cancel because there's no feeling that you're abandoning your friends because you have never had a reason to make any.

There is some logic in there if people were machines.  People that have to be forced to socialize aren't going to do so just because you make the game suck if they don't.  Playing for awhile and getting bored then quitting later seems like a better business model to me versus quitting right away.  I mean, I join guilds/groups for the social aspect.  If I did it just to get foozle xmz, I'd find something else to do with my time.