Thinking about resubbing.

[Delmania]

So, after leaving WAR, I picked up LotrO, and while it's fun, WoW has been calling to me in my sleep.  I had a level 70 warlock, and I was considering resubbing to get her to level 80 and try out the death knight class.  I know PvP is borked right now, but I am wondering, with those new crafted PvP "sets", can a person do well in BGs and ilk?  Also, I had a hard time finding a decent guild in the game, one that ran the 5 man instances and did premade PvP.  Do the daily quests and such offer good rewards on par with instance stuff?

[Gobbeldygook]

So, after leaving WAR, I picked up LotrO, and while it's fun, WoW has been calling to me in my sleep.  I had a level 70 warlock, and I was considering resubbing to get her to level 80 and try out the death knight class.  I know PvP is borked right now, but I am wondering, with those new crafted PvP "sets", can a person do well in BGs and ilk?

If you ever intend to ever pvp in any way, shape, or form, here is what you should do.

Step 1: Roll a DK.
Step 2: Delete your warlock so you never succumb to temptation and accidentally level her to 80.
Step 3: Enjoy.

Warlocks are the jokiest of joke classes in pvp and this shows no signs of changing.  I am telling you right here, right now: TURN BACK WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

---

If BGs are the primary metric by which you judge PVP success, you can get the gear you need to feel good from 5 man's, the auction house, and vendors, maybe losing some matches every week to fill in some gaps.  You will occassionally find yourself bitching about "That fucking rogue in raid gear", but you will roll most of the people in BGs by playing dot-dot-goose.

[Delmania]

Eh, it's not that BG are the pinnacle of PvP for me, it's that I can't find anyone to do the Arena with, since my friends are all playing WAR(!), LotrO, or not playing at all.

Basically, I am wondering if going Destruction spec, wearing the crafted armor worth resilience on it, and doing pretty much BG will give me enough of a PvP fix when I log on, since I am reducing the amount of time I spend online...

[Geki]

Basically, I am wondering if going Destruction spec, wearing the crafted armor worth resilience on it, and doing pretty much BG will give me enough of a PvP fix when I log on, since I am reducing the amount of time I spend online...

Definitely not the way Blizzard wants you to play the game.  Wow isn't a game for a person with limited time and access to good gear.  You'll be miserable in pvp.  Save yourself the trouble and aggravation.  Just pretend like you're playing for ~20 days and say you quit, because that's pretty much exactly what will happen. If you quit before and haven't missed it, there's nothing in the game now that you haven't really seen before.

[Nebu]

Definitely not the way Blizzard wants you to play the game.  Wow isn't a game for a person with limited time and access to good gear.  You'll be miserable in pvp.  Save yourself the trouble and aggravation.  Just pretend like you're playing for ~20 days and say you quit, because that's pretty much exactly what will happen. If you quit before and haven't missed it, there's nothing in the game now that you haven't really seen before.

I'll echo this as well.  WoW severely penalizes those players wanting a casual pvp experience.  If you want to pvp you really need to have the gear to make it enjoyable.  That takes time. 

[Gobbeldygook]

As long as you're not play

Eh, it's not that BG are the pinnacle of PvP for me, it's that I can't find anyone to do the Arena with, since my friends are all playing WAR(!), LotrO, or not playing at all.

Basically, I am wondering if going Destruction spec, wearing the crafted armor worth resilience on it, and doing pretty much BG will give me enough of a PvP fix when I log on, since I am reducing the amount of time I spend online...

If you intend to do arenas, you need to raid to compete.  Sorry.

I continue to advise in the strongest of terms against ever playing a warlock in any PVP situation if you have any choice in the matter.  Any other class and spec except maybe shadow priest would be better.  If you have no other 70's, roll a DK and be happy.  You'll have fun leveling it and have fun PVPing with it even in just quest reward blues.

[Delmania]

What did they do warlocks?  The class was always really weak in PvP, but that weakness was masked in the Fear and DoT mechanics and the infamous SL/SL spec. I assume the changes to Fear as well as the reduction of SL finally showed just weak the damn class is?

[Gobbeldygook]

What did they do warlocks?  The class was always really weak in PvP, but that weakness was masked in the Fear and DoT mechanics and the infamous SL/SL spec. I assume the changes to Fear as well as the reduction of SL finally showed just weak the damn class is?

Most classes and specs do so much damage that your siphon life and drain life have a lot in common with pissing in the ocean.  It's not unusual for a rogue or warrior to take you from 100-0 in literally 5 seconds.  Still no escapes from stuns.  You don't have much more stamina than you had at 70 in pvp gear.

[Delmania]

Most classes and specs do so much damage that your siphon life and drain life have a lot in common with pissing in the ocean.  It's not unusual for a rogue or warrior to take you from 100-0 in literally 5 seconds.  Still no escapes from stuns.  You don't have much more stamina than you had at 70 in pvp gear.

So, neither Destruction nor Demonology offer better survivability and damage over Affliction in PvP?

[Lantyssa]

I don't see how without an aggro mechanic for demons to take some of the damage.  (Though that's speculation as I avoid PvP in WoW.)

[Big Gulp]

I just can't see playing WoW for PVP.  Take it for what it is, an entertaining diversion where you whack foozles and watch your progress bar grow.  Shit, I mostly play solo because other people make me itch.

[WindupAtheist]

BG has basically been neutered in favor of arena, as far as I can tell. I meant to get into BG at 80, but blowing 60k honor per piece for blue junk didn't appeal to me.

[K9]

WoW PvP is pretty seriously uninteresting atm

[Delmania]

WoW PvP is pretty seriously uninteresting atm

Bleagh. I had hope to level to 80, make some armor, grind out a medallion and then not give a fuck, but it looks like Blizzard doesn't want me to do that...  I guess LotrO is the best game on the market atm.

[Phred]

Definitely not the way Blizzard wants you to play the game.  Wow isn't a game for a person with limited time and access to good gear.  You'll be miserable in pvp.  Save yourself the trouble and aggravation.  Just pretend like you're playing for ~20 days and say you quit, because that's pretty much exactly what will happen. If you quit before and haven't missed it, there's nothing in the game now that you haven't really seen before.

I'll echo this as well.  WoW severely penalizes those players wanting a casual pvp experience.  If you want to pvp you really need to have the gear to make it enjoyable.  That takes time. 

Are you guys dismissing crafted gear because you've looked at it and found it to not have enough resilience or just out of ignorance about the quality of the top level crafted pvp sets? Just curious.

[Merusk]

Definitely not the way Blizzard wants you to play the game.  Wow isn't a game for a person with limited time and access to good gear.  You'll be miserable in pvp.  Save yourself the trouble and aggravation.  Just pretend like you're playing for ~20 days and say you quit, because that's pretty much exactly what will happen. If you quit before and haven't missed it, there's nothing in the game now that you haven't really seen before.

I'll echo this as well.  WoW severely penalizes those players wanting a casual pvp experience.  If you want to pvp you really need to have the gear to make it enjoyable.  That takes time. 

Are you guys dismissing crafted gear because you've looked at it and found it to not have enough resilience or just out of ignorance about the quality of the top level crafted pvp sets? Just curious.

Their point is that you'll always be a second class citizen unless you're putting in the time to arena and win.  To do that you can't be a casual PVPer.   Then, as the seasons drag on, don't expect Blizzard to move the old seasons to honor again like before as it seems they felt that was a 'mistake'  So, you'll be in 'top level crafted' (which is below S5) getting raped by guys in S6 or S7.

[Delmania]

http://www.wowhead.com/?search=frostsavage

The Frost Savage gear isn't too bad, from what I can tell.  It's far better than the blue set that you get from reputation vendors in the Outlands.  I was thinking with this gear and this spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZbxczsZE00qrhuAoAcct  I could have some form of decent PvP in the BGs.

[Xanthippe]

You can make a DK if you have a level 55 or higher character.  I'd suggest forgetting the lock unless and until they fix locks, and just level up the DK.

The starting zone is very very well done.  The xp gain has been increased through Outlands, and then you can go to Northrend.

I have not enjoyed battlegrounds in WOTLK much, and don't see the point in playing for crappy blue gear.  I hate arenas - I just don't play at that level, and don't want to be the sheep for the wolves.

I really wish that Blizz would go back to focusing on the battlegrounds more and arenas less.  I mean, they could make an arena server that is just for that - insta 80s, and then arena people are separated from the rest of us who don't want the sport pvp thing.  But that would mean even fewer sheep for the wolves, I guess.

[Fordel]

Are you guys dismissing crafted gear because you've looked at it and found it to not have enough resilience or just out of ignorance about the quality of the top level crafted pvp sets? Just curious.

It's not enough resilience/hp to matter. It's stuck between not having enough resilience to survive and not having enough raw DPS output to kill.


The Full Grind your ass out in the BG honor set is barley enough resilience/HP to matter. If you picked up every single PvP item you could from 'casual' PvPing, got every enchant and gem slot filled with max resilience, it would only THEN begin to approach the levels of survivability required currently.


Most folks are probably better off just wearing their max pve dps suits from Naxx if all they want to do is dick around in AV or WinterGrasp. At least then you'll have the chance to actually kill/heal someone. Plus we always need a tank for the elite NPC's 

[Delmania]

So the only place for the casual PvPer/raider is under the heels of the hardc0re?

[Khaldun]

Pretty much, but let me say that you can have a lot of fun nevertheless in Wintergrasp and Strand of the Ancients, because a lot of the key activity in those revolves around vehicles and some degree of strategic common sense. You can be highly effective in those while still being in pure raiding gear. But if you want go arenas (which I hate), yeah, you gotta go all the way.

[Fordel]

So the only place for the casual PvPer/raider is under the heels of the hardc0re?

The Casual raider is fine, we have our own progression timetable that is independent of anything else, finally. Patchwerk doesn't get harder if someone else killed him first.


But yea, your fucked for the most part in PvP.

[Delmania]

So the only place for the casual PvPer/raider is under the heels of the hardc0re?

The Casual raider is fine, we have our own progression timetable that is independent of anything else, finally. Patchwerk doesn't get harder if someone else killed him first.


But yea, your fucked for the most part in PvP.

Hmm, what the definition of casual for WoW?  And is there a guild of F13 players that might want an ud warlock?

[Hindenburg]

Hmm, what the definition of casual for WoW?  And is there a guild of F13 players that might want an ud warlock?

Casual: doesn't min/max and plays under 10 hours a week.

The (sorta) f13 guild is alliance. Also, roll orc warlock. Far better.

[Delmania]

Hmm, what the definition of casual for WoW?  And is there a guild of F13 players that might want an ud warlock?

Casual: doesn't min/max and plays under 10 hours a week.

The (sorta) f13 guild is alliance. Also, roll orc warlock. Far better.

I think I can handle less than 10 hours/week.  As for undead vs orc, she's already 70, but I like WotF better than 5% stun resist....

[Hindenburg]

Blood fury and the increased pet damage, actually. Hardiness was also changed to decrease the duration of stuns by 15%.

PVP racials, psh.

[Delmania]

Blood fury and the increased pet damage, actually. Hardiness was also changed to decrease the duration of stuns by 15%.

PVP racials, psh.

There's also the level 70 versus level 1 racial!

[Fraeg]

What did they do warlocks?  The class was always really weak in PvP, but that weakness was masked in the Fear and DoT mechanics and the infamous SL/SL spec. I assume the changes to Fear as well as the reduction of SL finally showed just weak the damn class is?

Most classes and specs do so much damage that your siphon life and drain life have a lot in common with pissing in the ocean.  It's not unusual for a rogue or warrior to take you from 100-0 in literally 5 seconds.  Still no escapes from stuns.  You don't have much more stamina than you had at 70 in pvp gear.

add feral druids and boomkins to that as well. 

[Fraeg]

So the only place for the casual PvPer/raider is under the heels of the hardc0re?

Same as it has ever been.

The biggest  for me when i resubbed after nearly a year of not playing was:  my pvp gear is 11 months old, Oh hey, this is charming, there is new pvp gear, I can't get any* of it unless I meat the minimum arena team ranking... for every single god damn item.


*- the crappy blues and other epic stuff simply does not equate with this seasons arena gear.

[Delmania]

So the only place for the casual PvPer/raider is under the heels of the hardc0re?

Same as it has ever been.

The biggest  for me when i resubbed after nearly a year of not playing was:  my pvp gear is 11 months old, Oh hey, this is charming, there is new pvp gear, I can't get any* of it unless I meat the minimum arena team ranking... for every single god damn item.


*- the crappy blues and other epic stuff simply does not equate with this seasons arena gear.

I could have sworn that at one time, crafting and reputation items were supposed to be the means by which people who couldn't commit to the srs bee-knees of raiding and PvP coluld have some form of being on par with the end game.  Not the top of line, but maybe a level below.  Did that get thrown away when all the srs bitness whined?

[Sjofn]

The crafted and rep stuff is good for PvE, it's just PvP that's fucked up. Which is part of the reason I don't bother anymore.

[Phred]

The crafted and rep stuff is good for PvE, it's just PvP that's fucked up. Which is part of the reason I don't bother anymore.

True enough. Even the later quest blue gear is pretty damn good and should leave you close to in shape for the easier heroics. I'm quite impressed with their PvE design changes this expansion. Only pvp'd for fun and to get my rogue alt some decent weapons when it was possible but this go around he hit 80 pretty well geared to tag along on guild heroic runs and loot some decent stuff so I'm not missing pvp in  the slightest.

The only thing that bugged me about gear was crafter, where I can make a full set of pvp gear no one wants but the last ilevel blue and pve purple pieces I can make are pretty limited, but then you can fill those in with rep gear so it's not a huge deal.

[Delmania]

When I left WoW, part of my frustration was related to the fact that my playtimes is limited.  I can only usually log 1 to 2 hours a night, from 9 pm to 11 pm EST.  Many of the guilds I tryied to join were either mostly offline or were raiding at the time, which meant that to try and do regular or Heroic dungeons, I'd need to rely on PUGs.  I ran into the common circumstance that it was hard to find a tank or healer, and by the time a half decent group was pulled together, I'd have to log off.

[Delmania]

For the heck of it, I looked at the full bonus of the Frost Savage set when compared to the Hateful set for warlocks seem comparable.  There is the fact that the Hateful set has sockets and has less pieces, but comparison of the base stats on the set shows they are fairly close...

[Fraeg]

The crafted and rep stuff is good for PvE, it's just PvP that's fucked up. Which is part of the reason I don't bother anymore.

yep.  I don't expect to be the gand master ninja-porn PVP Arena Epic Noodler of Wang Extension.  My arena teams have never gotten that high in rankings, I am okay with that.  I have excepted the fact that an 18 year old loaded on Mountain Dew is going to hand me my 30 something ass a lot.   But to be also told that I can never even access the gear that would help me put myself on a slightly more even footing is a "fuck you" of the first order.