Thinking about resubbing.

[Sheepherder]

For the heck of it, I looked at the full bonus of the Frost Savage set when compared to the Hateful set for warlocks seem comparable.  There is the fact that the Hateful set has sockets and has less pieces, but comparison of the base stats on the set shows they are fairly close...

Resilience is with set bonus.

	Frostsavage	Hateful
Resilience	300	290
Crit	300	195
Spell Power	527	397
Stamina	458	450
Intellect	300	201

Fill in the missing pieces with Frostsavage blues and gem (no meta) the gear with regular green gems (Spell Power + Resilience + Resilience/Stamina) and you get:

	Frostsavage	Hateful
Resilience	300	428
Crit	300	289
Spell Power	527	615
Stamina	458	632
Intellect	300	295

128 more resilience
88 more spell power
174 more stamina
1 meta gem

5 less intellect
11 less crit

That's a pretty significant lead.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Those stats are completely off, you can not get ALL of those from gem slots. You can have any one of those stats maybe or a blending of them but even the epic resilience gem is +20 so the only way you are getting 128resil is by making every gem slot resil and thereby sacrifcing other stats.

it should read

128 more resilience OR
88 more spell power OR
174 more stamina

[Xanthippe]

Those stats are completely off, you can not get ALL of those from gem slots. You can have any one of those stats maybe or a blending of them but even the epic resilience gem is +20 so the only way you are getting 128resil is by making every gem slot resil and thereby sacrifcing other stats.

it should read

128 more resilience OR
88 more spell power OR
174 more stamina

And that's not enough of a difference, frankly.

[Delmania]

Those stats are completely off, you can not get ALL of those from gem slots. You can have any one of those stats maybe or a blending of them but even the epic resilience gem is +20 so the only way you are getting 128resil is by making every gem slot resil and thereby sacrifcing other stats.

it should read

128 more resilience OR
88 more spell power OR
174 more stamina

And that's not enough of a difference, frankly.

The 174 stamina is pretty big, but still, it looks as difference between the crafted gear and the current season's gear isn't' very big..

[Ingmar]

Those stats are completely off, you can not get ALL of those from gem slots. You can have any one of those stats maybe or a blending of them but even the epic resilience gem is +20 so the only way you are getting 128resil is by making every gem slot resil and thereby sacrifcing other stats.

it should read

128 more resilience OR
88 more spell power OR
174 more stamina

No, the numbers are right. The difference isn't only from gems, it is in that you are still wearing frost savage stuff in the slots that don't have hateful pieces.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Well it's hard to compare since they don't have all the same pieces, hateful for example can include rings. Also it's worth noting that hateful bracers/boots/rings/trinket/neck/cape epics can all be bought with honor and no arena rating required.

[Sheepherder]

Well it's hard to compare since they don't have all the same pieces, hateful for example can include rings. Also it's worth noting that hateful bracers/boots/rings/trinket/neck/cape epics can all be bought with honor and no arena rating required.

That's the hateful set, not the set + non-set pieces.  So the first table is eight pieces (head, chest, shoulders, legs, gloves, bracer, boots, belt) versus five (head, chest, shoulders, legs, gloves), the second table I filled in the blanks (gems, unfilled gear slots) so that it was eight pieces of gear versus eight pieces of gear.  Swapping the non-arena pieces in would result in an equal increase in both categories  Since you mised it the first time:

Fill in the missing pieces with Frostsavage blues

[Delmania]

Well, against all common sense and reason, I am getting the 10 day trial.  I am planning on seeing how high I can get my warlock on Andorhal, and also trying out the death knight class.  Maybe I'll resub and struggle again without a good guild, or maybe the 10 day trial will be enough to scratch the itch.

[Sjofn]

Sticking to the trial is totally sensible! You're being too hard on yourself. 

[Delmania]

If I can find someone on the server who's willing to be a healer, I can do some 2 man Arenas for gear.  I know I can't play the game solo as I did last time, so hopefully I can find some good people.

[Rendakor]

Well, against all common sense and reason, I am getting the 10 day trial.  I am planning on seeing how high I can get my warlock on Andorhal, and also trying out the death knight class.  Maybe I'll resub and struggle again without a good guild, or maybe the 10 day trial will be enough to scratch the itch.

Wow, someone else here plays on Andorfail! You horde or alliance?

[Delmania]

Horde warlock.

[Rendakor]

I'm Aryx, horde DK. Hit me up if you ever need anything.

[Delmania]

Thanks!  I will be sure to be in contact with you provide I get through the 94885843579843 updates.

[Delmania]

I'm succumbing.  The draw of getting my warlock to 80 and playing a death knight is too much.  Damn you Blizzard, damn you to hell.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm succumbing.  The draw of getting my warlock to 80 and playing a death knight is too much.  Damn you Blizzard, damn you to hell.

i think you can play a dk if any char is level 60...unless you meant you wanna do both

[Sjofn]

Even better, it's level 55 and then DK city. 

[Delmania]

I meant I want to do both.  The only question is for Death knights - BS/Mining or Inscription/Herbalism?

[bhodi]

Mining is WAY more profitable than herbalism right now.

[Xanthippe]

I meant I want to do both.  The only question is for Death knights - BS/Mining or Inscription/Herbalism?

Skinning/mining is more profitable than either of the above.

[Delmania]

I know about the skinning/mining strategy, I was just wondering which was better suited for the endgame since BS lets me make my own start gear, and Inscription is one of those professions that is useful no matter what.

[Hindenburg]

Go herb/min with a macro to switch between them, while in undeath presence. Walk around spamming that thing.

[bhodi]

I know about the skinning/mining strategy, I was just wondering which was better suited for the endgame since BS lets me make my own start gear, and Inscription is one of those professions that is useful no matter what.

According to EJ, JC/BS is currently the best in terms of profession. This is actually true for most classes. This is due to the synergy - two extra gem slots, 2 better gems to put in the slots. Keep in mind, "best" is a fairly relative term - I would say it is no more than 10-20% better, equating to ~2% character overall improvement  Both are insanely expensive to level and you will get ZERO money trying to sell stuff on the AH until prof 400+. If you can pair with an enchanter, you can level BS much much cheaper than JC - If you craft gear then trade to a DEr, then sell the dust+shards on the AH, you can level up for 1g-2g/point or so from 250-400.

Most other professions are 10-20g/point in that range. End game JC is currently the big moneymaker on the AH if you like to play that game, if you're willing to put in time to get exalted faction and do dailies every day. BS is almost worthless for making money, even end game. Inscription used to be a big money maker due to decks but is becoming less so.

Skinning doesn't make nearly as much as mining or herbalism as far as gathering goes, but all three will keep you liquid if you are a moderate spender. Don't go herb/mining, spamming a switch macro is annoying as fuck and you'll just end up hating life.

Everything is up in the air for 3.0.10, as new patterns have not been released yet.

[Delmania]

My only concern with doing BS/JC is the mining.  Enchanting is not a problem, Delily (my warlock) is a 325 enchanter.  However, I've got no toons that have high mining, are you calculations assuming I am buying the ore needed?

[bhodi]

My only concern with doing BS/JC is the mining.  Enchanting is not a problem, Delily (my warlock) is a 325 enchanter.  However, I've got no toons that have high mining, are you calculations assuming I am buying the ore needed?

How you get the ore is irrelevant. Some people like to think of gathered materials as 'free' that they can put right into tradeskills, but that's simply not the case. All ore, mined or bought, has the exact same value. If you weren't using it to level a tradeskill, you'd sell it on the AH. I can tell you that even if you were to take a gathering profession, you will still have to supplement bars/ore from the AH - you cannot level a tradeskill to 450 solely on the profits from your gathering profession - you MIGHT make it to 400, if you're lucky. Of course, you'll have to powerlevel it up in any case, starting as a level 50 DK, and your tradeskills starting at 0.

[Merusk]

Not to mention the cost of time spent when skilling up that gathering tradeskill and then farming mats, that could be spent farming gold instead.  That's a lot of time wandering looking for nodes for skillups, and even more time when going after the current nodes.  That equates into lots of daily quests, instance runs or straight mob grinding that help you improve your character other ways.

[Phred]

I meant I want to do both.  The only question is for Death knights - BS/Mining or Inscription/Herbalism?

Skinning/mining is more profitable than either of the above.

Inscription is a dead end profession. Once people have the glyphs they need they never need to replace them unless they respec, and the dual spec option in the works supposedly will preserve glyphs. Inscription is for seldom played alts, IMO, who can feed your other chars glyphs, though that's hardly worth it anymore as all glyphs sell for pocket change now.

[Oban]

Inscription is great if you want to make money by selling nobles cards.

[Fordel]

The resource farming is only a issue if you "must have that item crafted NOW", you'll find plenty to go around just from doing daily quests and the like.

[bhodi]

Inscription is great if you want to make money by selling nobles cards.

Be very careful taking this statement at face value.

Profit on nobles and/or decks have many variables that vary widely between servers. What is profitable on one may not even be close on another. Right now, I would not recommend inscription as a tradeskill. Things may change in the new patch.

[Vash]

Inscription is a dead end profession. Once people have the glyphs they need they never need to replace them unless they respec, and the dual spec option in the works supposedly will preserve glyphs. Inscription is for seldom played alts, IMO, who can feed your other chars glyphs, though that's hardly worth it anymore as all glyphs sell for pocket change now.

When dual spec comes you will need a Lexicon of Power to switch between your specs and Inscriptionists will be able to craft a portable Lexicon similar to a repair bot only it requires multiple people to summon.  These portable Lexicons will be purchaseable and useable by anyone.  The extra income they can make from these will presumably offset the decrease in demand for glyphs since people won't be respec'ing and re-glyphing as often.

Inscriptionists (Scribes sounds funny) will always be able to make steady income from things like Darkmoon cards, Tomes to rename hunter pets, and Vellums for enchanters to sell their wares on the AH.

The main draw for Inscription is the super nice shoulder enchants that are cheap and let you ignore the horrible grind that is Sons of Hodir, although it is somewhat less painful since 3.0.8.

[Ingmar]

Another nice benefit of inscription is you get to skip an entire faction grind as you get your own shoulder enchants (which are better than the other ones besides.)

It doesn't work out to a larger financial benefit or power benefit than JC/smithing which is well ahead of anything else, but it does remove a time sink, which can be beneficial in other ways.

[bhodi]

It doesn't work out to a larger financial benefit or power benefit than JC/smithing which is well ahead of anything else, but it does remove a time sink, which can be beneficial in other ways.

Aaaand here's another misconception.

Inscription, like almost every other tradeskill, cannot turn a profit until you get to L450. This means that you're going to be powerleveling it and taking a loss until you reach max rank. That gold has to come from somewhere. Generally, people farm for gold either through collecting raw mats (ore, herbs), doing dailies, or raiding and DEing the crystals (VH is good for this - one lucky winner gets 150g from 30m of work). Considering the cost to get it to 450 in gold, which can be easily translated to hours spent, you're looking at many many MANY farming hours to max out inscription.

The hodir rep grind nets you ~50g for 1 hrs worth of work. Doing it for about 20 days straight gets you exalted rank. It's essentially farming "plus". If you want to be lazy/slow, you can get an easy 16.5g and 500 rep for the spear quest alone - it takes longer to fly there than it does to do the actual quest.

I would suggest that the time it takes to powerlevel inscription is about the same as the hodir rep grind in terms of hours spent. Only, with the hodir grind, you're positive about a thousand gold that you can use elsewhere - possibly even to level a more useful tradeskill that fully stacks with rep gain enchants (instead of just being slightly better) - blacksmithing, jewlcrafting, or enchanting.

[Ingmar]

If we're talking about powerleveling inscription, sure, but I thought we were talking about someone picking something to level as they go. The cost of picking the herbs you see as you run around doing quests is pretty low.

[Nevermore]

But think of the opportunity cost, man!  THE OPPORTUNITY COST!!