Resubbed - damn it's well done

[Lakov_Sanite]

This thread is going places....dark...geeky places...


I like it.

[Sheepherder]

Shylock's as morally white as they come.

You do realize that his plan from like Act I Scene II onwards was to cut the guy's fucking heart out, right?

[Delmania]

Shylock's as morally white as they come.

You do realize that his plan from like Act I Scene II onwards was to cut the guy's fucking heart out, right?

Right, but he had no conniving plots or schemes going on.  He didn't like Antonio, so he made the pound of flesh deal.  A simple act because he fuckign hated the guy for being a douche to him.  How morally straight can you go?

[Delmania]

Our leader is hitting jaina proudmoore and has queen gothy belf on the side...or maybe at the same time. Your king looks like a dbz reject and has been in prison for the past few years dropping the soap regularly.

This is the same highly-effective Warchief who got punked in single combat by one of his underlings, then followed that up by being so inept as to allow one of the capital cities of his coalition to be seized in a coup, while rogue Horde military units took to the field to launch biological warfare attacks against Scourge, Alliance, and Horde forces alike, throwing the entire political situation straight into the shitter, right? That's who you're talking about, isn't it?

Then the dumb bastard comes out and basically says "So yeah, guess what? We kinda let a demon from hell (or whatever) be second in command of one of our capital cities. The one where we've been turning a blind eye for years to the Forsaken using human guinea pigs to develop biological weapons, yeah that's the one. Well anyway, shockingly, this all turned out to be something less than a great idea and a bunch of your best guys all died horrible melty deaths. Woops. Our bad. Hey, some of our guys died too. So we expect you to just sit back and take it, because we're totally going to handle this ourselves. Really, you can trust us. We know what we're doing." Yeah, how could a stance like THAT not go over well?

But hey, it's all cool because he found a human female degenerate enough to touch his peen. And when he can't get that, he fucks a dead woman. Way to go Thrall.

 

Look, it's not our fault you're working for Team Evil and King Wolverine McTestosterone-Poisoning. Thrall has repeatedly made the Horde work to help the Alliance, offered treaties even after his de-facto sister was beheaded in front of him by a ranking Alliance leader, and generally done everything possible to make peace with the Alliance because he's smart enough to remember back half a dozen years or so to when everyone had to work together to save the entire planet from demonic invasion.

It's not the Horde's fault that King Manmuscle O'Fuckhead is so much of a wimp that a couple of weeks in the arena broke his tenuous grasp on sanity and none of the other Alliance leaders seem to be willing to stand up to the sweaty imbecile. Seriously though, at the very least Velen should be telling him to sit down and shut the fuck up when the grown-ups are talking.

(Forsaken bioweapons? Well, maybe if Stormwind wasn't invading the sovereign territory of the Forsaken/Lordaeron, then the Apothecaries wouldn't need to get involved...  )

I am not sure who is more incompetent here.  The Alliance for allowing petty hatred to tule it's relationships with the Horde, the Horde for being ruled by a pussy, or the Burning Legion and Lich King for not being able to kill them all whilst they squabble.

[DraconianOne]

If you prick us, do we not bleed?

Um, no. Dead, actually.

If you tickle us, do we not laugh?

 Nope. Still dead.

If you poison us, do we not die?

Already dead. Thanks for playing

And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

Ah! Now that's the right attitude.

It's fun being Forsaken.

[Delmania]

If you prick us, do we not bleed?

Um, no. Dead, actually.

If you tickle us, do we not laugh?

 Nope. Still dead.

If you poison us, do we not die?

Already dead. Thanks for playing

And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

Ah! Now that's the right attitude.

It's fun being Forsaken.

Except the rogues can kill my warlock.  Apparently, daggers and poisons do affect the dead...

[DraconianOne]

Well, yeah. There's that little matter of being a game that gets in the way. Apparently I can drown too.

Fortunately, it's a world of infinite rebirths. Death is transient - a mere inconvenience. Morality is neither black, white or grey as it's surplus to requirements. Murder can hardly be considered a crime if there's never any victim.

[Hindenburg]

Shylock's as morally white as they come.

You do realize that his plan from like Act I Scene II onwards was to cut the guy's fucking heart out, right?

He didn't coerce Antonio into accepting the deal, Antonio accepted out of his own volition. Not only that, the chap had cursed and spat on the filthy jew. Additionaly, the loan was made without interest.

Shylock's a fucking saint.

[WindupAtheist]

Look, it's not our fault you're working for Team Evil and King Wolverine McTestosterone-Poisoning. Thrall has repeatedly made the Horde work to help the Alliance, offered treaties even after his de-facto sister was beheaded in front of him by a ranking Alliance leader, and generally done everything possible to make peace with the Alliance because he's smart enough to remember back half a dozen years or so to when everyone had to work together to save the entire planet from demonic invasion.

You mean the same peace-loving Horde that has spent this entire time attacking the night elves and contesting Ashenvale because they built their grand capital in the middle of a wasteland and, oops, lumber doesn't grow there? The same Horde that has long included and paid no mind to the Forsaken as they tested biological weapons on innocent humans? The whole "peaceful Horde" thing has never been anything but a joke, meaningless noise coming from the mouth of a disconnected and ineffective ruler while everyone else ignores it.

But that's the Horde in a nutshell: Attacking foreign nations to steal their natural resources, kidnapping and performing grusome experiments on foreign citizens, and then loudly congratulating themselves on being the only ones enlightened enough to seek peace. It's an improvement from their intermittent bouts of demon-fueled genocide, but only just.

Hell, the orcs never even had a "Horde" until the Burning Legion came along and unified them to be used as a weapon. What we're looking at is a Legion-created organization which has become moderately less belligerent since bucking Legion control, united with a rebel faction of Scourge calling themselves the Forsaken, who have done little to nothing to show themselves as being any better than their former masters.

[squirrel]

This argument is fucking awesome and must continue. I've learned more about War Lore (I find the quest text horribly boring) in the last 30 posts than I ever have in game. Horde | Alliance | Forsaken Fight!

[Fordel]

You mean the same peace-loving Horde that has spent this entire time attacking the night elves and contesting Ashenvale because they built their grand capital in the middle of a wasteland and, oops, lumber doesn't grow there?

That made me chuckle, because every time I make a Orc or Troll, I get the same "Why the hell would anyone CHOOSE to live here?"

[Lantyssa]

They considered the Barrens, however the chat drove everyone out.

Gyspy space goats are the best faction though.  No matter how stupid their plots or actions, they sound awesome doing it.  They need more dialog.

[Sjofn]

I'm still sad a bunch of the female draenei voice emotes were deemed too dirty to actually go live.

To be fair, they really were REALLY DIRTY.  Except the Sexodar one, that one ruled and was only SLIGHTLY dirty.

[WindupAtheist]

List of quotes please!

[Register]

List of quotes please!

List of quotes please! 

[Merusk]

From Wowwiki
# You have heard of the Exodar? I will show you the Sexodar!"
# "Okay, for mating ritual, we will need four... No, five sheep, one gnome, and Staff of Domination. * "Put gnome in bag, beat bag with staff, and meet me after gnome is tenderized."
# "I want you to *lick and splat* my *gurgling noises* *slurping noises*"
# "Oh darling, I love it when you say *indistinct growling* *repeated yell*"

They also took out the troll's "Smoke two gnomes" quote.

[DraconianOne]

The same Horde that has long included and paid no mind to the Forsaken as they tested biological weapons on innocent humans?

Innocent?

There are no innocent humans. Internment camps and hunting down Orcs like animals is not innocent. The Scarlet Crusade's persecution of the Forsaken is not innocent. How can you possibly think that we would just sit back and let that happen to us? We didn't choose to be undead - we have to make the most of the situation we've got. Our "Allies" barely trust us and it's only by the good will and influence of the Earthen Ring that they accept us into the coalition. Yes we do biological research into the Lich King's plague - both as a vaccine and a cure.  The only way to create a vaccine is from plague samples itself.

Genocidal fuckers like yourself who are all too keen to exterminate us put us in the unfortunate position of having to maintain defences which, regrettably, include derivatives of the very same plague that made us what we are. Our new plague, our Blight, was only ever meant to be a deterrent against those who wish us harm but we absolutely will not hesitate to use it against our enemies when our withered, decaying hand is forced to so.

But don't start comng here and talking about the innocence of humans when it was a human mage who opened the Dark Portal to let the Old Horde through and when it was a human prince who burned Scholomance and turned Lordaeron into the Plaguelands they are today.

[WindupAtheist]

There are no innocent humans. Internment camps and hunting down Orcs like animals is not innocent.

Since you're clearly not interested in rational discourse and would rather fling shit everywhere in an attempt to cover up your own misdeeds, I'll leave aside the fact that there really wasn't much else to do with the orcs besides pack them up somewhere and watch them carefully. It's not as if they could be sent home. No, instead I'll merely point out that neither the Kingdom of Lordaeron nor the High Elves like your precious Sylvanas (all members of the Alliance at the time) objected to this system at the time. Pot, kettle, black and all that. If you want to pretend you were all born on the day you died and that nothing which came before has any bearing on you, well fine, but then you have to quit pretending to be the rightful continuation of the Kingdom of Lordaeron and accept that you have no more right to squat in the ruins of an Alliance city than the ghouls wandering the wreckage of Andorhal or Stratholme.

The Scarlet Crusade are nutters and pretty much everyone, Alliance included, takes every opportunity to attack them. The idea that this somehow justifies torturing and plaguing anyone you want is laughable on its face, as is the idea that you're developing your own version of the Scourge plague for "defensive" purposes. Throwing forth "Here is an example of a human who did something bad!" as an excuse isn't even worth the chuckle.

No, you've done nothing to show us that you're any better than the Scourge. Weaker, weak enough to have to suck up to orcs, sure. But that's a match made in heaven. The Horde's hypocrisy in attacking anyone they want and then patting themselves on the back for their newfound peaceful nature? It's right in line with the Forsaken's tendency to bestow the plague on anyone they feel like and then get indignant when we don't immediately recognize that they're plainly much different and better than the Scourge.

[Hindenburg]

8/10.
Could be a bit less obvious 

[Delmania]

Since you're clearly not interested in rational discourse and would rather fling shit everywhere in an attempt to cover up your own misdeeds, I'll leave aside the fact that there really wasn't much else to do with the orcs besides pack them up somewhere and watch them carefully. It's not as if they could be sent home. No, instead I'll merely point out that neither the Kingdom of Lordaeron nor the High Elves like your precious Sylvanas (all members of the Alliance at the time) objected to this system at the time. Pot, kettle, black and all that. If you want to pretend you were all born on the day you died and that nothing which came before has any bearing on you, well fine, but then you have to quit pretending to be the rightful continuation of the Kingdom of Lordaeron and accept that you have no more right to squat in the ruins of an Alliance city than the ghouls wandering the wreckage of Andorhal or Stratholme.

The Alliance would have been more than happy to watch the orc population stagnate in those camps.  Rather than take the work to try an integrate orcs into society, they dumped them into camps and said "have fun".

The Scarlet Crusade are nutters and pretty much everyone, Alliance included, takes every opportunity to attack them. The idea that this somehow justifies torturing and plaguing anyone you want is laughable on its face, as is the idea that you're developing your own version of the Scourge plague for "defensive" purposes. Throwing forth "Here is an example of a human who did something bad!" as an excuse isn't even worth the chuckle.

The new plague was meant to combat the Scourge, since the Forsaken are a prime target of Arthas.  It was only due to the corruption of Varithamas that the plague was unleashed on the alliance.  Sylvanas was foolish in trusting him, but she was desperate for powerful allies to help her and her people survive. 

No, you've done nothing to show us that you're any better than the Scourge. Weaker, weak enough to have to suck up to orcs, sure. But that's a match made in heaven. The Horde's hypocrisy in attacking anyone they want and then patting themselves on the back for their newfound peaceful nature? It's right in line with the Forsaken's tendency to bestow the plague on anyone they feel like and then get indignant when we don't immediately recognize that they're plainly much different and better than the Scourge.

The difference between the Forsaken and the Scourge is that the Forsaken have free will.  If the Alliance was smart, they would have recognized the Forskaen for what they are: unwilling victims of the plague that the Alliance turned a blind eye to.  These people could have be reintegrated back into the alliance with the hopes that one day, a cure could be found.  But like the orcs, the Alliance turned an eye to the plight of people and only brought their current trboules on themselves. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

f13 is an RP server now.

[Fordel]

Please.


Neither of them have enough eye patches for a RP server.

[Sjofn]

From Wowwiki
# You have heard of the Exodar? I will show you the Sexodar!"
# "Okay, for mating ritual, we will need four... No, five sheep, one gnome, and Staff of Domination. * "Put gnome in bag, beat bag with staff, and meet me after gnome is tenderized."
# "I want you to *lick and splat* my *gurgling noises* *slurping noises*"
# "Oh darling, I love it when you say *indistinct growling* *repeated yell*"

They also took out the troll's "Smoke two gnomes" quote.

The one that for some reason really made me go was their /silly asking if gnomes had a vibrate setting.

[Sheepherder]

Neither of them have enough eye patches for a RP server.

 

[WindupAtheist]

The Alliance would have been more than happy to watch the orc population stagnate in those camps.  Rather than take the work to try an integrate orcs into society, they dumped them into camps and said "have fun".

The orcs come screaming out of the portal filled with demonic fury, attempt to basically destroy the world, make a pretty good run of it, and when they're finally defeated the Alliance is supposed to not only hold back from exterminating them, but give them forty acres and a mule and integrate them into human society? Typical Horde nonsense, where the Alliance is expected to behave like some sort of sainted charity, but the most outrageous Horde misdeeds are ignored. I notice no one wants to go near the whole Ashenvale thing. For all intents and purposes the Horde basically declared war years ago (while applauding themselves for their peaceful ways) and the Wrathgate debacle just finally exhausted the EPIC amount of patience the Alliance had been showing.

The new plague was meant to combat the Scourge, since the Forsaken are a prime target of Arthas.  It was only due to the corruption of Varithamas that the plague was unleashed on the alliance.  Sylvanas was foolish in trusting him, but she was desperate for powerful allies to help her and her people survive.

Right, I suppose when the new plague has been tested on human beings it's to make sure that it DOESN'T kill them, right? The ideal purpose of the new plague is to kill Scourge and living alike, while reanimating the latter as new Forsaken. They just haven't gotten it right yet, and Putress happened to spill the beans early.

The difference between the Forsaken and the Scourge is that the Forsaken have free will.  If the Alliance was smart, they would have recognized the Forskaen for what they are: unwilling victims of the plague that the Alliance turned a blind eye to.  These people could have be reintegrated back into the alliance with the hopes that one day, a cure could be found.  But like the orcs, the Alliance turned an eye to the plight of people and only brought their current trboules on themselves.

Yes, we could integrate the undead right along with the orcs. Then we can all dance and sing together, and we can bring you flowers while you butcher the elves for their resources, and oh thank you for this dose of the plague, what a lovely gift. Get real.

The old Horde was at least honest about saying "Fuck you!" These constant pathetic attempts to play the victim on the part of the new Horde are just sad.

[Fordel]

The old Horde was at least honest about saying "Fuck you!" These constant pathetic attempts to play the victim on the part of the new Horde are just sad.

There is actually a growing number of Orcs that agree with this, from what I understand of Horde WotLK Lore.

[Simond]

Hellscream Jr. is a tit, though.

[Delmania]

The orcs come screaming out of the portal filled with demonic fury, attempt to basically destroy the world, make a pretty good run of it, and when they're finally defeated the Alliance is supposed to not only hold back from exterminating them, but give them forty acres and a mule and integrate them into human society? Typical Horde nonsense, where the Alliance is expected to behave like some sort of sainted charity, but the most outrageous Horde misdeeds are ignored. I notice no one wants to go near the whole Ashenvale thing. For all intents and purposes the Horde basically declared war years ago (while applauding themselves for their peaceful ways) and the Wrathgate debacle just finally exhausted the EPIC amount of patience the Alliance had been showing.

Let's see.  After the war, you clearly had some reconstruction to do, and you had a large number of lethargic creatures who were trying to figure out what to do next?  If you're aim is to prevent more war, sounds like a win-win situation, you put the orcs to work cleaining up, and then teach them Alliance = good, and then those fierce warriors are on your side.

Right, I suppose when the new plague has been tested on human beings it's to make sure that it DOESN'T kill them, right? The ideal purpose of the new plague is to kill Scourge and living alike, while reanimating the latter as new Forsaken. They just haven't gotten it right yet, and Putress happened to spill the beans early.

Putress was a defector, corrupted by a demon who was put in charge by a confused woman trying to figure out "what now?".  As for the test subjects of the plague, the men who it was tested on were going to die fighting the Forsaken.  Might as well put those deaths to good use.

Yes, we could integrate the undead right along with the orcs. Then we can all dance and sing together, and we can bring you flowers while you butcher the elves for their resources, and oh thank you for this dose of the plague, what a lovely gift. Get real.

Get real? Miss an oppurtunity to turn 2 powerful rivals forces into alies?  Who needs to get real?

The old Horde was at least honest about saying "Fuck you!" These constant pathetic attempts to play the victim on the part of the new Horde are just sad.

First, the old Horde was a bunch of demon blood drunk craziies driven into a battle frenzy by a much more powerful force.  They said "fuck you" because the Alliance never tried to offer an olive branch.

[WindupAtheist]

Let's see.  After the war, you clearly had some reconstruction to do, and you had a large number of lethargic creatures who were trying to figure out what to do next?  If you're aim is to prevent more war, sounds like a win-win situation, you put the orcs to work cleaining up, and then teach them Alliance = good, and then those fierce warriors are on your side.

Pfft. More likely we'd get Thrall weeping big fat emo tears about how his people were used as slave labor by the evil Alliance, and how no one respects his sincere efforts toward peace, all while his subjects loot and pillage and laugh at him behind his back. In other words, exactly what we have now.

Putress was a defector, corrupted by a demon who was put in charge by a confused woman trying to figure out "what now?".  As for the test subjects of the plague, the men who it was tested on were going to die fighting the Forsaken.  Might as well put those deaths to good use.

Yeah, who would have thought putting a fucking member of the Burning Legion in charge wouldn't work out well? Putting him in charge and then apparently not even watching him that closely! You'd need to be some sort of prophet to forsee THAT coming to a poor conclusion.

Get real? Miss an oppurtunity to turn 2 powerful rivals forces into alies?  Who needs to get real?

This is the part where I point out that one of the first things Sylvanas did as a free-willed undead was to enter into a false agreement with an Alliance commander, then betray and murder him so that she could have the Undercity as the capital of her own little empire. But hey, that's okay because Garithos was fat and a jerk, right?

The Forsaken like to spin this myth of persecution at the hands of the Alliance, but the very first contact between the undead Sylvanas and someone in a position of authority within the Alliance was basically cooperative, until Sylvanas decided to kill him. Garithos was an asshole, the cooperation was limited and temporary, and really he didn't have much choice anyway, but in the end he gave a hell of a lot more good faith than he got in return.

The "poor victimized Forsaken" act is just more Horde propaganda bullshit. Sylvanas didn't try to reunite with her surviving people and get cruelly rejected, she murdered an Alliance commander to seize a former Alliance capital, declared herself Queen, made a fucking demon lord her second in command, and started cranking out her own version of the Scourge plague.

Gee, how could anyone mistake THAT for something besides good intentions?

EDIT:  And for all the supposed intolerance on the part of the Alliance, there have been a steady stream of death knights picking up letters of recommendation from Tirion, being accepted back by the King, and running merrily through the streets of Stormwind with their pet ghouls in tow. Of course, they asked nicely instead of killing Alliance military personnel and declaring their own kingdom. Go figure.

[Fordel]

They also welcome the Draenei, who at first glance appeared to be demons associated with the Legion. The Draenei also asked nicely and did not slaughter the first alliance members it came across.

[Hindenburg]

What about the Tauren?

[DraconianOne]

corrupted by a demon who was put in charge by a confused woman trying to figure out "what now?". 

As I understood it, Varimathras agreed to serve Sylvanas and the Forsaken in return for her sparing his life. Always wondered about that and his betrayal was never a surprise.

However, he's dead now. It is a sore point but could have been worse. We could have had a dragon running our city.

we can all dance and sing together, and we can bring you flowers while you butcher the elves for their resources

This. This is a good thing. It's the best idea you've come up with. Then, after we've slaughtered the elves, we can roast gnomes on an open fire, get drunk and sing songs. Sounds like a party to me!

[WindupAtheist]

What about the Tauren?

The Tauren have nothing even faintly objectionable in their history, but then their history prior to meeting the Horde doesn't amount to much. On the whole, if they were to just run around their grasslands on the other side of the ocean and talk nature with the elves, no one would have any problem with them. As it is, they're helping the orcs, so the Alliance doesn't really have much choice in how to treat them.

[Merusk]

However, he's dead now. It is a sore point but could have been worse. We could have had a dragon running our city.

Dragons < asshats than Demons.  Yes, even the Black Dragonflight.

What about the Tauren?

The Tauren have nothing even faintly objectionable in their history, but then their history prior to meeting the Horde doesn't amount to much. On the whole, if they were to just run around their grasslands on the other side of the ocean and talk nature with the elves, no one would have any problem with them. As it is, they're helping the orcs, so the Alliance doesn't really have much choice in how to treat them.

Yeah, and they're only doing that out of a debit of honor since Thrall saved Cairn's ass from being wiped-out by the Centaurs.   Tauren are wookiees with a bad life debit.

[Simond]

Yes, we could integrate the undead right along with the orcs. Then we can all dance and sing together, and we can bring you flowers while you butcher the elves for their resources, and oh thank you for this dose of the plague, what a lovely gift. Get real.

Technically, all of the 'night elf' forests belong to the Horde anyway - they're just being occupied by a peasant rebellion. Or did you forget that the (fucked over repeated by the Alliance to this very day) blood elves are the direct descendents of the rightful ruling classes of the Kaldorei?

That's right - the night elves should be bowing to the blood elves, not spitting on them!

(And that's not even going into the NE hypocrisy about magic at the moment).