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Author Topic: Resubbed - damn it's well done  (Read 106146 times)
squirrel
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on: February 06, 2009, 12:05:07 AM

So I had some friends who resubbed and got me to join in. We are all 63 - 70 and got WoTLK. It's really well done. I doubt we'll ever see the raiding game, never raid as we're too small, but as a 4-5 man group they've done a damn fine job. I easily see us getting to 80 with these characters and PvPing a bit before we cancel again.

Blizz consistently blows me away with their attention to detail and corrective design decisions. They deserve to own this space right now.

Oh and as a Pre-TBC rogue until recently - rogues rock! What fun!

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
Numtini
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Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 05:08:39 AM

You can easily see the raiding game if you hit 80 (and its hard not to). There's a lot of PUGs on the easier ones.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Dren
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Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 05:11:00 AM

Make sure you do all of the quests throughout.  The use of phasing is really quite good.  You'll also want to make sure to do a lot of the dailies for each area.  Some are well done and very fun.  The rewards you get with the factions are nifty too.  You really could go quite a long way without raiding between the quests, daily quests, instances, and heroics.  Throw PvP on top of that and you won't miss raiding at all.

If you help with Wintergrasp and end up winning it, you can try to get into a PUG for the vault instance there.  You can go in for 10 man or 25 man.  It involves about 4-5 trash pulls then one boss.  The whole thing is easy and takes maybe 20 minutes.  It is good for some more little trinkets and a shot at some big upgrades.
bhodi
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Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 07:31:19 AM

Leveling - If you're looking for "Cool Content", I would suggest you do both Howling Fjord and Borean Tundra for the quest lines. Icecrown is by far the best zone and makes heavy use of phasing. You can either go there when you're 78 for the 'cooler quests than where I'm at' factor, or you can save it all for when you're 80 and get 10 gold per quest completion.

Zul'Drak is the good/bad depending on what you want - it has a lot of 'mounted' quests, where you take control of a creature, and has an entire quest line where you're part of the scourge. Cool from a gameplay perspective, but if you're just looking to level an alt, all these quests have abysmal experience/time ratio.

Grizzly hills and Sholozar Basin are the most "classic" zones, being they have almost no phasing and are almost completely your standard kill quests - go here, kill 10 guys, OK now go back, kill 3 higher guys and their leader, plus an extra quest stack to collect 10 of their asses while you're at it. There's some cool lore about titans in both the zones, but they don't really get very good until the instances.

The competency bar is MUCH lower than it used to be - you should be able to run heroics and there are tons and tons of people looking to do the daily heroic. You should be able to, as was suggested, pug Arch when you own wintergrasp and get some really nice gear. You should be able to at least go into Naxx 10 man in heroic blues with a decent group so don't feel shy about getting your mates together and filling the last few slots with pugs.
Rasix
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Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 02:40:58 PM

I love Sholozar Basin.  To me it feels like a combination of Nagrand and STV.  Both zones I loved.  I liked Icecrown at lot too, but there's a lot of 5-man quest cockblocks all over the place.  Reminded me of SMV, where you couldn't finish off your cool story line because no one wants to do 5 man quests a month after an xpac is out.

I do fine in Naxx and I still have greens and some low level blues equipped (3 crafted/rep epics).  Of course, the DK seems to do reliable DPS in less than optimal gear. Helps if you're not an idiot.   

I don't know if the competency bar is lower, but there's definitely less of a gear check where ever you go. Of course, my guild manages to beat encounters while still being VERY BAD AT THEM. 

I like this xpac a lot, but I feel at most it's got another month or two for me.  My buddies need to hurry up and level (they just got the xpac) so we can do stuff while my guild smashes it head against raiding content their unequipped to handle.

-Rasix
Ingmar
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Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 02:43:40 PM

Storm Peaks is like Icecrown without the cockblocks. In some ways I like the storylines better there.

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Soulflame
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Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 03:02:46 PM

Icecrown has entirely too many 5 man quests.  That is all.
ajax34i
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Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009, 07:52:18 PM

Not sure what level you are, but there are TWO entrance zones (the borean whatever, and the fjords), and what goes on in each zone is different from the other, and different subplots of what goes on later are set up (through the quests) in each of these two zones.  Green sea giants attacking happens in Borean, why they're attacking is explained in the Fjords, for example.

But you get enough XP to only have to do ONE of the starter zones to go from 68 to 72, so I guess a lot of people miss out on half the story line quests, until they make an alt.  I went and tried to do the quests in both zones, and am glad I did so before proceeding past the Dragonblight/Dalaran phase.

Some of the quests are quite fun, and some are quite funny.  I think they went overboard with the "Omg you're a hero, I heard about what you did in Outlands" praise that every NPC spews at you, but otherwise I'm having fun.
Sjofn
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Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 07:33:52 PM

The "omg ur a hero" thing actually made me feel slightly uncomfortable on my death knight. But in a cool way. Because I am a dork.  awesome, for real

God Save the Horn Players
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 09:26:50 PM

I'm not sure how much they used it for the quest text but I noticed in borean tundra my main was noted as having helped defeat nefarian. However when I went with an alt who had never done that, there was no mention of dragon slaying. I think that achievements may augment quest text in some small cases...which is awesome.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Merusk
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Reply #10 on: February 07, 2009, 09:31:38 PM

I'm not sure how much they used it for the quest text but I noticed in borean tundra my main was noted as having helped defeat nefarian. However when I went with an alt who had never done that, there was no mention of dragon slaying. I think that achievements may augment quest text in some small cases...which is awesome.

Yeah, there's something similar for Death Knights when you start the Icecrown area.  There's a whole separate response from Morgan when you speak to him as a DK vs as another character.  Makes me wish they'd carried it through a little farther at times... like the running joke I have that Razivus still owes me $20. The bastard.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fordel
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Reply #11 on: February 07, 2009, 10:29:17 PM

Bolvar has special text if you did the Onyxia attunement chain.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #12 on: February 08, 2009, 02:52:47 AM

I'm about bored and ready to unsub again. The newbie death knight quests were cool with the phasing and stuff, but on the whole the class just leaves me really cold. I usually like this sort of dark knight archetype, but combat-wise they feel like an exercise in button-mashing, and lore-wise Blizzard's whole "vengeful emo hero" treatment just lays there like a dead fish. After about the tenth time some DK NPC told me to "suffer well" I just wanted to tell the little pussy to shut the fuck up.

I barely ever bought the Scarlet Crusade and their "evil paladins who still keep their powers" routine in the first place, but around the time one of those good-guy death knights was telling me how I needed to go kill the evil paladins and then heroically reanimate their corpses into horrible ghouls for some reason, meanwhile a player's gnome death knight with a green mohawk was doing donuts on his motorcycle and a blue-skinned goat alien paladin flew by in a helicopter, my suspension of disbelief finally suffered a critical failure.

Jesus, does everyone have to be a good guy? Does your orcish death knight really need to be a hero? Next they're gonna add the "BLOOD SOAKED RAVING HELLBEAST RAPIST" class, then throw in some cutscenes about how they're really angsty do-gooders underneath.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Lantyssa
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Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 08:07:04 AM

They started out well, with Alliance not being quite the good guys you wanted to think they were, and then... yeah.

I pretty much ignore a lot of things to be able to play the game.  It's definately more into the "game" and not "world" or "play experience" that I prefer.  I can only play it as long as I haven't grown bored and there are people to chat with.  Because of that (and achievements to give me something new to do) I'm having fun for the moment.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Fabricated
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Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 12:33:07 PM

I'm about bored and ready to unsub again. The newbie death knight quests were cool with the phasing and stuff, but on the whole the class just leaves me really cold. I usually like this sort of dark knight archetype, but combat-wise they feel like an exercise in button-mashing, and lore-wise Blizzard's whole "vengeful emo hero" treatment just lays there like a dead fish. After about the tenth time some DK NPC told me to "suffer well" I just wanted to tell the little pussy to shut the fuck up.

I barely ever bought the Scarlet Crusade and their "evil paladins who still keep their powers" routine in the first place, but around the time one of those good-guy death knights was telling me how I needed to go kill the evil paladins and then heroically reanimate their corpses into horrible ghouls for some reason, meanwhile a player's gnome death knight with a green mohawk was doing donuts on his motorcycle and a blue-skinned goat alien paladin flew by in a helicopter, my suspension of disbelief finally suffered a critical failure.

Jesus, does everyone have to be a good guy? Does your orcish death knight really need to be a hero? Next they're gonna add the "BLOOD SOAKED RAVING HELLBEAST RAPIST" class, then throw in some cutscenes about how they're really angsty do-gooders underneath.
I dunno, WotLK does a lot to make you not such a goodie goodie as any class. Well, WotLK tends to make you look like a fucking moron since every zone has like 2-3 questlines where you end up helping the badguys by accident. The only real "bad guy" stuff you see from either faction is the shit they do to eachother later on. Icecrown is a lot of the Alliance and Horde not getting shit done because they can't stop killing eachother for 5 minutes.

Also did you miss the whole starting DK area where you do basically every awful thing a non-M rated game can let you do?

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Oban
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Reply #15 on: February 08, 2009, 12:43:13 PM

Why would anyone want to rape a hellbeast?

Maybe you should try raiding.

Palin 2012 : Let's go out with a bang!
Sjofn
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Reply #16 on: February 08, 2009, 03:59:12 PM

While I do get tired of being told to suffer well, I don't think the DK telling me to go kill the Scarlet Crusade and reanimate them even tried to pretend it's anything other than being a dick to people who are dicks to "us." "They hate undead blindly? Well let's see how they fucking like BEING undead!" The Forsaken guy in charge of that little operation in particular is a huge dick who doesn't try to pretend you're doing heroics either.

The King of Stormwind is also a giant racist douchebag, so it has that going for it too.

God Save the Horn Players
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #17 on: February 09, 2009, 12:15:57 AM

Also did you miss the whole starting DK area where you do basically every awful thing a non-M rated game can let you do?

If I could have stayed with the Scourge forever, I'd have made my DK my new main. :(

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
squirrel
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Reply #18 on: February 09, 2009, 09:37:46 AM

I'll have to roll up a DK and see what the quest and story are like. So far I'm enjoying the starter areas of Northrend.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #19 on: February 09, 2009, 01:55:37 PM

Well, I'm not sure how many quest in northrend had me be this sort of hero, most of them seemed to be "for the horde!" type stuff where sure i may be killing centaurs who are evil but it's not from any righteous standpoint, they were just in the way. I'm sure having a straight 'good' and 'evil' faction like the naaru or scourge would appeal to most but i much prefer morally grey wow and I don't see them as having really deviated from that much.

I mean of course in the expansion you're going to come out looking pretty good, since you are fighting the lich king and all, it's hard to be evilER than that. I can't attest to how different the alliance quests have been but aside from helping the taunka with some errands which could be considered neautral nothing I did seemed very altruistic and selfless.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Oz
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Reply #20 on: February 09, 2009, 01:57:41 PM

to sumarize...

Wow was never good vs. evil.
Wow is us vs. them.

both sides believe they are "right" and the other side is "wrong" and doing bad shit to us.
Delmania
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Reply #21 on: February 09, 2009, 02:09:09 PM

to sumarize...

Wow was never good vs. evil.
Wow is us vs. them.

both sides believe they are "right" and the other side is "wrong" and doing bad shit to us.

For the Alliance and the Horde now, that's true.  The core storyline behind WoW is that of the effort by the Burning Legion to eradicate all life and the efforts of the Naaru to stop them.  It just so happens the war on Burning Legions advanced on Azeroth were stopped twice, so the planet has become the battleground for the war.  The Lich King was spawned as a result of this, and he's an enemy of everyone.    So, you've got these 2 factions of people who more or less just wanted to be left alone who thrown into combat with each by much greater forces, and thanks to the outcome of the war, find themselves having to try to love and work together in order to survive when neither side trusts each other. 

The Warcraft has a decent setting, Blizzard keeps cheapening so people can get their purplez.

Fordel
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Reply #22 on: February 09, 2009, 02:16:02 PM

Even Arthas or the Legion would argue from their PoV, as being "right".


The Legion wants to destroy creation to remake it as perfection. The Scourge wants to make everyone dead, because everyone is equal in death.



Very few bad guys actually believe they are bad guys. The Old Gods, they probably are just crazy though  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Delmania
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Reply #23 on: February 09, 2009, 02:20:25 PM

Very few bad guys actually believe they are bad guys. The Old Gods, they probably are just crazy though  why so serious?

When your main guy is constantly cast for the leading role in hentai movies with school girls while you're left in the cold, you just feel the need to destroy the world.

Sjofn
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Reply #24 on: February 09, 2009, 03:10:21 PM

Even Arthas or the Legion would argue from their PoV, as being "right".


The Legion wants to destroy creation to remake it as perfection. The Scourge wants to make everyone dead, because everyone is equal in death.


I'm pretty sure part of the "everyone is equal in death" canbe extra justified in that if everyone is equal in death, they'll stop slap fighting each other long enough to fight off the Burning Legion for good. There's definitely a "the Horde and Alliance can't get their shit together enough to defeat the Scourge, how could they REALLY defeat Sargeras?" vibe I'm getting from various Icecrown quests I've done.

God Save the Horn Players
Tannhauser
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Reply #25 on: February 09, 2009, 03:55:15 PM

Great game, great xpac, but I hit all the dungeons, mostly also heroic and now I'm done.  I'm just not a Raider; addons, gearing up, reading strats and all that shit.

Back in good old Middle Earth!
Sjofn
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Reply #26 on: February 09, 2009, 04:14:29 PM

At the risk of sounding like one of Those People who are always all "yay raiding" to people who really just don't want to raid, raiding is a lot more friendly in WotLK than it has ever been before. It's really easy to gear up for (crafted epics, some heroic runs, done), the fights are relatively easy to explain (mostly), and I still haven't gotten around to installing any mods (I am a lazy gamer that doesn't care) and haven't really missed the boss mod at all ... although I am one of those people that usually notices the in-game warning that shit is about to go down. Other people need it in ten foot high letters (I probably would too if I was still a healer).

Anyway, if you just don't have enough people you care to raid with, that's one thing, but if you have the people, it's not nearly as big a headache as it was.

God Save the Horn Players
Delmania
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Reply #27 on: February 09, 2009, 05:58:10 PM

Even Arthas or the Legion would argue from their PoV, as being "right".


The Legion wants to destroy creation to remake it as perfection. The Scourge wants to make everyone dead, because everyone is equal in death.


I'm pretty sure part of the "everyone is equal in death" canbe extra justified in that if everyone is equal in death, they'll stop slap fighting each other long enough to fight off the Burning Legion for good. There's definitely a "the Horde and Alliance can't get their shit together enough to defeat the Scourge, how could they REALLY defeat Sargeras?" vibe I'm getting from various Icecrown quests I've done.

What about the whole "after everything is undead, Arthas will rule it all" vibe?

Sjofn
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Reply #28 on: February 09, 2009, 06:29:21 PM

Well, Arthas clearly feels he's the best dude for the job, sure. It's that messed up "if everyone has to do what I say, there will be WAY LESS PROBLEMS" thinking that is wrong but at least vaguely understandable.

Sort of unrelated, it cracks me up how much the Lich King shows up at random. I know they felt no one actually gave a fuck about Illidan because we never saw him in TBC and wanted to avoid that issue in WotLK, but they went a little overboard. It's more like, "Christ, you AGAIN? Get a hobby." But maybe that's just me!

God Save the Horn Players
Fordel
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Reply #29 on: February 09, 2009, 06:55:17 PM

It's not so much that he shows up, but he shows up, has the opportunity to kill you for meddling in his plans, but spares you because you provided him temporary amusement.

"NEXT Time, you won't be so fortunate!"

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Delmania
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Reply #30 on: February 09, 2009, 07:38:57 PM

Well, Arthas clearly feels he's the best dude for the job, sure. It's that messed up "if everyone has to do what I say, there will be WAY LESS PROBLEMS" thinking that is wrong but at least vaguely understandable.

Sort of unrelated, it cracks me up how much the Lich King shows up at random. I know they felt no one actually gave a fuck about Illidan because we never saw him in TBC and wanted to avoid that issue in WotLK, but they went a little overboard. It's more like, "Christ, you AGAIN? Get a hobby." But maybe that's just me!

Well, also no one cared about Illdian because he was a sideshow in WC3.  You played him in one mission, then he disappeared until the expansion when suddenly he's the like evil..or good.. or just some fucked whiner you wanted Kiljaeden to kill.  Arthas, on the other hand, you played for a good time, and while you knew he was an evil bastard, you didn't care, because he was cool. 


He's also suppoedly a demigod at this point, so when he laughs at lets you live, it's realy because, compared to him, you are jackshit.  Plus if he killed you there'd be no raid instance.

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #31 on: February 09, 2009, 07:41:55 PM

Look, if the evil warlord just went and killed the hero before he got stronger, he wouldn't be EVIL, duh.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #32 on: February 09, 2009, 08:54:29 PM

The whole "We're just two sides who each feel we're justified, it's all morally grey, can't we work together against a common threat? Here, let this windchime made of Holy Light explain!" routine has always made me want to go sign up with the Burning Legion.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Triforcer
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Reply #33 on: February 09, 2009, 08:57:53 PM

I wish there was one Naga NPC somewhere in Northrend that said something like, "This guy ain't nothing compared to Queen Azshara down Maelstrom way, yo!"

...just to remind everyone that someday the Lich King will be getting 3-manned by level 120s. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Delmania
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Reply #34 on: February 09, 2009, 09:54:09 PM

The whole "We're just two sides who each feel we're justified, it's all morally grey, can't we work together against a common threat? Here, let this windchime made of Holy Light explain!" routine has always made me want to go sign up with the Burning Legion.

Play a warlock.

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