Blood Bowl - for real

[GenVec]

I know dwarves are supposed to be one of the toughest teams in Bloodbowl, but my Chaos warriors + minotaur have literally spent the entire second half of a game actively running away so as not to add to my already substantial injured/killed list. What's the trick here? Even with comparatively equal armor skills, they seem to be wounding an ungodly amount.

Also, what's the mechanic for fouling? Strength vs. armor? The manual isn't too clear.

[Typhon]

Got to say that's been my experience with Chaos as well, pretty disappointed with how they play - especially the mino.  He's a big fucking pussy.

[Modern Angel]

Chaos are incredibly slow starting. Think of them as the anti-dwarves. Dwarves are the best team early on but really peter out against other teams that load up on maneuverability and match them in Block. Chaos are fucking terrible early on but with Mutations they can ramp up to dangerous levels; a friend of mine has a Minotaur with Tentacle and Claw. It's absurd.

[kaid]

Yup as others have said dwarves start out very nasty. Their players are highly skilled almost all have at least block and many have tackle and they also all have thick skull. This means vs a new chaos team they will win most matchups even if you are throwing two dice at them so you will get knocked around more and more chances for injury.

Chaos catches up FAST though and once you start getting guys with block/claws and if you can mighty blow you will start opening dwarves like a can opener. Chaos eventually gets to be the most deadly opponent for high armor value teams. With a mino with claws anybody he blocks basically has the equivilant of armor 6. The first skill up for any mino unless you roll doubles for block probably should be claws. With claws he starts causing a ton of injuries vs the harder teams and mightly blow does it for the weaker teams which allows him to skill up more and more.

Chaos like the lizards are a very very good team for long campaigns but start off very skill lacking.

[Falconeer]

If anyone is wondering where are the usual annoying updates, the f13 League is definitely alive, just waiting for the last match of day #3 between IainC and Typhon, postponed due to IainC being out until monday. We can't advance to day #4 until all matches have been played, and I guess everyone agrees we are in no hurry at all.

[Ironwood]

I disagree.

MOVE YOUR ASSES.

[Modern Angel]

Incidentally, I will be away until Sunday afternoon. Babby shower.

[Typhon]

For the record, Iain stayed up late Wed night to get the game done and we couldn't get past the "open port 16962" error while connecting.  We tried everything that was suggested, restarted both games three times.  No luck.

We're targeting this weekend to try again.

[Modern Angel]

That bug is on their end three quarters of the time. It's just an erroneous error message that's ended up meaning every server issue.

[Typhon]

There were a bunch of people bitching in chat about it at the same time, so that is the conclusion that we came to as well.  Sorry for the delay.

[Ironwood]

Fuck.  I wondered about that.

Me and my mate get it all the time.

They really, really have to sort out the Multiplayer.  It's supposed to be the whole point.
 

[Modern Angel]

With that error I find that a wait and a relog usually fixes it. It's pretty infrequent.

[Megrim]

When installing this, i assume that i download all four parts before running the .exe?

(Also, /wrists aus internet)

[Quinton]

For the record, Iain stayed up late Wed night to get the game done and we couldn't get past the "open port 16962" error while connecting.  We tried everything that was suggested, restarted both games three times.  No luck.

Got that on my first attempt to connect to a network game.  Forwarded 16962 through the firewall to the win32 box (tcp and udp) and then things worked.  Necessary?  Dunno.

[Modern Angel]

When installing this, i assume that i download all four parts before running the .exe?

(Also, /wrists aus internet)

Yeah. You're basically downloading a DVD in three .bins and an .exe.

[Megrim]

When installing this, i assume that i download all four parts before running the .exe?

(Also, /wrists aus internet)

Yeah. You're basically downloading a DVD in three .bins and an .exe.

Ok, ta. Download should hopefully be finished in time for the second f13 league.

[Hoax]

I really need help on building a cage and running an effective running game.

[Aez]

What's your team?  I could be more specific.

For cage, the basic is to not commit 100% of your team.  If B is the ball carrier and P a regular player, the good simple cage would be :

P   P
  B
P   P

I play with Skavens so I rarely cage but I like to add an other layer on hte side where I'm expecting an attack :

   P   P
 P  B
   P   P
 P

[Scadente]

Yeah what race you play impacts cage breaking alot.

When I play Agile I always attempt to just harrass the cage (if its in his half or close to LOS), frustrate the guy. Leave none of your players open to free blocks. Eventually the cage will advance so slowly that he'll see that his only chance is to make a break for it. Otherwise you can attempt to break the cage before it ever materializes; Press the ball hard with 2-3 players (not only low STR guys), force him to make as many dice rolls as possible (one will fail, eventually), try to keep is players occupied via. clever use of tackle zones, if you are the faster side, try to get behind the line of scrimmage, between his main blockers and his ball-carrier. Splitting his team up this way can be risky, but it puts pressure on him, forcing him to throw blocks or blitzes that aren't advancing his team down the field.

Of course, he might get a lucky pass off and cage the ball early. In that case your superior movement should allow you to regroup fast (and by clever positioning) the cage won't be overly strong.

If you are winning the STR war, just charge head first in with your strongest player (who preferably has Standing Firm / Side Step), prevent the cage from advancing (often by NOT engaging). Eventually you will get a block on the ball-carrier or his cage will be so tight that you should be able to chain-block the ball carrier out of the cage, leaving him open for a blitz, just remember to leave safeties, in case he does something out of the ordinary and makes a break for it!

This can be harder to pull of with a slow side, and very much not recommended versus agile teams (they will punish you for your mistakes).

[Modern Angel]

I generally make a small cage, preferably with one side two to three squares from a sideline. That way I only have to devote protection to the one side. Once that's done, I stick as close to one person right on each standing opposition player that I can in order to head things off.

[GenVec]

I think i've finally gotten the hang of this. Apparently i'm pretty  with humans. Put me down for the next league whenever it starts.

[Falconeer]

I am aiming at September for the next league, right after the Steam release, to include all those waiting for it to purchase the game. If the Steam thing will get postponed, then we'll start the last week of August anyway.

This is supposed to be the big league, "f13 League season 2". But if we can finish Season 1 soon enough, then maybe there will be time for a "Season 1.5, Summer Extravaganza"  to keep things running and to let everyone's feet wet while we wait. The Summer Extravaganza would be with all new teams. Season 1 teams will get frozen until Season 2 starts (we'll sign them all up to a dead-league to be sure no one gets the temptation to cheat).

[Der Helm]

Cheat ? How ? 

In other news I might not be able to play until I got my hardware problems sorted out, right now my PC reboots everytime I do something as stressfull as running a virus scan...

Already ordered a new PSU which should fix this problem. Most hopefully. 

[Falconeer]

"Cheat" as in improving your team after League 1 is over and before 2 starts. When f13 League 1 ends, you can sign your team to Public League and get Money and SPs out of it. THAT would be cheating. I want all teams in the f13 league to freeze at the end of Season 1 and to start untouched at the beginning of Season 2. To make sure that happens, as soon as League 1 ends, we'll sign up those teams to a placeholder league until the real thing starts again.

[Der Helm]

"Cheat" as in improving your team after League 1 is over and before 2 starts. When f13 League 1 ends, you can sign your team to Public League and get Money and SPs out of it. THAT would be cheating. I want all teams in the f13 league to freeze at the end of Season 1 and to start untouched at the beginning of Season 2. To make sure that happens, as soon as League 1 ends, we'll sign up those teams to a placeholder league until the real thing starts again.

Oh well, I will probably roll a new team anyway. Orcs or Chaos for the win. 

[IainC]

Typhon and I played our round 3 game this evening, final score was 3-1 to my Lizzies. I capitalised on a couple of breakaways with some unusual throwing accuracy from my Skinks. 2 completed passes and a bit of scrambling gave me a comfortable 2-0 lead at half time. I scored again within a few turns of the restart, again by breaking the ball out of a brawl and Typhon salvaged some pride with a touchdown on the very last turn of the game.

Neither of us really attracted much in the way of attention from the dice gods, long passes were always dropped, close ones worked about as often as they should have. Blocks mostly worked as expected too, there were no game changing moments of extreme jamminess or misfortune so it was a good clean game. Typhon only fielded ten men but myKOs didn't recover for the last drive meaning I only had 7 Lizards on the pitch for most of the second half. I was quite surprised that Typhon decided to score actually, I was expecting him to take advantage of his numerical advantage and try for some SPPs by beating my team into pulp. As it was I escaped without any injuries at all which was a nice change.

[Comstar]

Well this thread got me to buy the game, along with playing 4 tabletop games on the weekend and recalling all the rules from 10 years ago off the top of my head.

I play humans with a fast passing style: the goal is a 2 turn touchdown. I have a lot of problems if a strong team like orcs or chaos forms a good cage. I found the AI pretty decent myself.

Yell out when the new F13 League starts!

[Falconeer]

Day #3 is over.

Results are:
Scadente (Black Amnesty) 0 - Modern Angel (Estalia Crushers) 3
Cadaverine (Team Bugman's) 0 - Helm (Luscious Lizards) 2
Falconeer (Bat Country) 1 - Aez 1
IainC (Tlachtlan Tornadoes) 3 - Typhon (Toothsome Terrors) 1

Here's the standings after 3 matches.



Modern Angel solid #1 followed by Aez with 2 wins and a tie. Typhon gets the bottom with 0 points, with a slightly better Falconeer with 1.
Interestingly enough, Falconeer's orcs are the third team when it comes to TV with 1110. Modern Angel's Estalia Crushers are only 4th with 1100 despite being the league leaders with 3 wins and 0 losses. Typhon's Toothsome Terrors are worrying with a timid 840 after only 4 games. Next week I'll track Team Values fluctuations too.


Now, on with

Day #4



Aez challenges Modern Angel in a fight between the only 2 unbeaten teams in the league. Aez team is 100 points of TV better than Modern Angel's, but this means the leading dwarves will have 100k inducements to spend in a very unpredictable game. Definitely replay material.
Helm vs. Scadente, both with 2 wins, will be a good match to watch too.
Typhon vs. Cadaverine and IainC vs. Falconeer complete the day with matches between losing teams.



IainC, any chance we can play tonight or something? You still in the US? I am in no hurry, and pretty flexible as long as it's not in the euro morning.

P.S: Comstar, with an avatar like that it was a shame for you to be Bloodbowl-less! Welcome to the League (and join the Steam group).

[kaid]

I think i've finally gotten the hang of this. Apparently i'm pretty  with humans. Put me down for the next league whenever it starts.

Hehe thats one trick in bloodbowl the different teams favor different play styles so its always good to try out different ones till you find what works for you. Humans are pretty damn solid all around very fun team to play where you can do both the passing and running game. Scary combo my friend has which drives me nuts is both of his passers have nerves of steel and dump off. So they pick up the ball and if you try to blitz one to get the ball out they just dump pass it to a nearby catcher and play keep away from my leezards.

[NowhereMan]

Heh, I learned that I'm not really a great Chaos player since whenever I try them I end up spending almost the whole match just bashing up the other team rather than trying to score. It's just too damned tempting.

[Typhon]

[...]I was quite surprised that Typhon decided to score actually, I was expecting him to take advantage of his numerical advantage and try for some SPPs by beating my team into pulp. As it was I escaped without any injuries at all which was a nice change.

Having gone scoreless in every game that I played, and frequent poor rolls, I felt it was more prudent to break my streak then beat you up.  Especially since I only seemed to be knocking your little guys down only 1 out of 3 tries.

Toothsome Terror Status Update:  My mino is dead, and a chaos warrior is out for the next game... the chaos warrior who leveled!     Fortunately I had enough cash to buy a goatman.

Next match is the one where I turn it all around!

@NowhereMan: sounds to me like you are made to be a Chaos player, that has basically been the only strategy that seems like it has any chance for success - beat the other team to death.

[Falconeer]

The great thing about the inducement system is even the poorest player has a chance for some fun. You'll get big money every next game you play, would be nice to see a Star Player fielded in the League.

[kaid]

There are two nice balancing factors inducments help cause even if you really suck you can have fun with the extra star player or spells. The lizard man spell is pretty fun I was messing around with it and you give all opponents in a pretty big aoe area bone headed for a turn. That thing is almost a free score with skinks vs some teams.

The other balancing thing is if you go below 11 players you get a free journeyman lineman. That player has loner so is not great and won't skill up but you will never start a game with less than 11 people so you will at very least always be fielding a full team no matter how bad you get mauled.

[IainC]

IainC, any chance we can play tonight or something? You still in the US? I am in no hurry, and pretty flexible as long as it's not in the euro morning.

I'm off to Vegas this afternoon and will be back Thursday afternoon. I can play you then, let me know a time when you're around from that point and I'll try and be there. I'm in Mountain Time which is 8 hours behind you.

[Typhon]

The other balancing thing is if you go below 11 players you get a free journeyman lineman. That player has loner so is not great and won't skill up but you will never start a game with less than 11 people so you will at very least always be fielding a full team no matter how bad you get mauled.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying, but I didn't get a lineman, I got a goatman.  I lost my mino, and had purchased exactly 11 to start, leaving me with 10.  I still had 4 linemen (chaos warriors).  When the game startd it looked like I had an extra goatman, not an extra lineman.  For Chaos, goatmen are the scrubs.