TTH on Cheyenne Mountain, Swing and a Miss

[schild]

Loading... along with coffee, the perfect antidote to Monday.

I hope you had a good weekend. Mine was split between shoveling snow, watching the NFL playoffs (here we go, Steelers!), and a little Atlantica Online and WoW thrown in for good measure. I'm really enjoying Atlantica, but man, the RMT spammers. If subscription games requiring a box purchase have a tough time keeping them at bay, how much more of a problem does a free-to-play game have with this, since there's really zero barrier to entry and only a risky IP ban will cut them off.

Some of you might be familiar with the buzz phrase "multi-level marketing" or MLM. Fact is, if you know how Quixtar, Herbalife, Avon, or Mary Kay products are sold, you know a little about MLM. The jist of it is that independent, unsalaried "distributors" are authorized to sell a product, earning a commission based on volume. If the thought of this scheme raises your buyer beware hackles, it's with good reason. Illegitimate MLMs are prone to make their money in pyramid schemes, false advertising, and price fixing, which is one reason that Amway now does business as Quixtar in the US, though the brand remains intact overseas.

Why am I bringing up MLM? The concept may be the last hope or last nail in the coffin for Stargate Worlds and other Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment properties. Supposedly CME-affiliated Mmoguls.com began a viral "pre-launch" marketing campaign this past week, appearing on an MLM-geared website and posting on several forums, including Ten Ton Hammer (we've moderated the thread, both because advertising in our forums is verboten and, well, we're skeptical).

I'll save you a click, here's their pitch:

    "The chairman and primary fund raiser of Cheyenne, Gary Whiting has decided to share the spoils of this phenomenon, and create an unrivalled opportunity, the scale never been seen before, where the games will go live, globally, after the first 200,000 Platinum members register in the network.

    A Platinum member is $250 with $50 monthly subscription that gives you full access to STARGATE WORLDS and 6 other 3D online games from a Motor Racing Game (where you get to choose the car of your choice, and if you win the twice monthly tournaments, you also win the real version of the car.) To American Football Game [sic] (like Madden NFL) and other new 3D Fantasy Worlds, 15 Future Games & a 3D Social Networking site with Shopping Mall.

    After the 200,000 Platinum members have been filled in the BINARY tree the Game will go on sale (est. May '09), and everyone who purchase [sic] the software for the game will be allocated pro-rata, so therefore evenly distributed among the 1st 200,000 platinum members downline."

So basically, once MMOguls raises $50 million, they'll take an attractive stable of games live and everyone will share in the box sales and subscription profits. Sounds fishy? For sure. But let's give this the benefit of the doubt and say 1) this is legit, and 2) it goes live as intended. I'm guessing that $50 is at or around the average gamer's online entertainment budget each month - would you fork it over for SGW and a bunch of no-name clones? Either someone didn't do much market research or they simply have bad intentions.

As to the truth behind of CME's affiliation with MMOguls, my sole amateur Internet sleuthing tool WhoIs shows that the domain is registered to an address in the same building (though not the same suite) as the address we have on-file for CME. It's worth noting that the MMOguls site doesn't mention SGW but does cast itself as owned by Cheyenne Mountain Affiliates, LLC.

If this is a fake, its a very cunning one, though cash-strapped CME probably doesn't have the legal muscle to fight for their trademark. As for the valid yet ugly chance that this is illegal pyramid scheme, the FTC probably wouldn't start investigating until the money starts flowing. In any case, we know that CME was planning a social portal of some kind, but as of yet we've not been able to get any kind of official comment.

I'm personally hoping that this is all a poorly orchestrated fraud, because the concept seems to have a better chance of creating intense distrust in online games at large among investors than becoming a winner for all involved. Far better that SGW be taken over by another publisher and developer at a fire sale bargain than find itself and its worthy dev team at the center of a scandal not of their making.

Comments are welcome in the Loading... forum and interact with whoever you find there, or email me directly if you like.

That's a lot to write when you could've just said:

"It's a scam, and here are the reasons:"

But since I'm not doing journalism anymore, someone else can dig those up.

But I'll tell you, it's a scam. Feel free to dump CME on your Do Not Want list.

Edit: Fixed topic subject, whoops.

[Mrbloodworth]

Hi all - sorry this got to two pages before I got to it.

As some users have stated, we've long been deleting mentions and advertisements for this on the forums. I've also spent more time than I wanted to deleting private messages sent by users from this organization to our users. Many community members have been communicating with me regarding spams they've received in the past weeks, which have been dealt with promptly. Times are slow here following the Holidays, and community will have ups and downs, in this current environment "spamvertisments" are never something we'll subject you to!

The following is a statement that has been prepared by CME management:

Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment (“CME”) and its subsidiaries (including Firesky) are not affiliated with this entity and there is no contractual relationship between these entities. They do not have any license or contractual rights with Stargate Worlds or any of the other products currently in development by CME.

We were not asked for an official comment regarding TTH's article before it was released. Stargate World's is the community's game (as you will all be playing it), so feel free to bring concerns like this up to us when they arise.

Link

Just found that. It was Ten Ton Hammer that original "broke" the story.   

[schild]

Not quite the full story. But hey, doesn't matter, it's a scam!

[SnakeCharmer]

Dude, this has GOT to be just eating at you.  Getting under your skin.  Making you have a nervous tick in your eye.

Do it.

Unleash the fury that is Schild. 

Return to the dark side (journalism?), and the circle will be complete.

Or something.

[schild]

Una momento, por favor.

[schild]

Alright. I'm not a journalist anymore, but I play one on TV, as such, here's the story.

The Chairman of the Board at CME, Gary Whiting, is the owner of MMOguls. While there's no business relationship, the same person is basically in charge of both. Cheyenne Mountain Affiliates, which bears a similar but different name to CME is basically leveraging on a name and the board should rightfully get pissed about it. But what can they do? There's no money left. Of course PR at CME is going to say what they said. There's also some shit about a dude leaving/fleeing the country from shit he did at a different company.

The whole thing stinks to high hell and it would be REALLY, REALLY nice if CME and TTH got shit together.

Families rely on the former for income. They were paid, but they are still a while behind. In short, it's insulting to everyone. You're way past the point of embarrassment at this point. Also, to the marketing/community/pr people at CME - if you can't tell the whole story, just say No Comment.

As for TTH, GODDAMNIT. YOU HAVE A JOB - PLEASE START DOING IT. FUCK. WHO PAYS YOU PEOPLE? You know what, here, you can contact me - MSN: schild AT f13.net - if you're just too lazy to do it yourself. Standard freelancing wages apply. If you pay extra, I'll even let you attach your own name to it, I don't even want credit. Of course, no one in the know will actually think you did the research, but who cares, right? Also, redesign your website. It's busy like a porn store in the 80s. Damnit.

[LK]

Yessssss. The rage feels so good. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Nice.  I couldn't quite feel the rage from here though.  I think your 'PUNCH THE FUCKER THROUGH THE MONITOR" thing needs more work.

Funny thing...MMOguls is now a censored word at the SGW forums.  Roflz.

[schild]

That's because the people in charge of that stuff at CME have absolutely no idea how to handle such a thing.

Common sense - It's not just expected anymore. Needs to be a requirement for applicants. Tests will be administered.

[Fordel]

But guys, you can win a car! 

[Murgos]

I just enjoy how the whole thing is contingent on them raising 50 million in cash.

So, uh, what happens if it never hits 200,000 plat subscribers?  Everyone quietly gets there money back?  When?  Righhht.

It doesn't sound like just a scam, where you aren't getting what you paid for, it sounds like fraud, where there is never any intention of giving you what you paid for.

[schild]

Guy at TTH is truly serious business

One of my first lessons in Internet writing was this horror, the horror of being attacked by a zombified horde of official forum posters, followed by the sheer joy of realizing that if you've stayed within the facts as you know them and your genuinely held opinions yet touched off a powder keg, you've done your job.

Yesterday, I brought to light the MLM pyramid schemery of MMOGULS; what CME now claims is a complete and total scam. Here's their official statement on the matter from CEO Tim Jensen:

    Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment (CME) and its subsidiaries (including Firesky) are not affiliated with MMOGULS and there is no contractual relationship between these entities. MMOGULS does not have any license or contractual rights with Stargate Worlds or any of the other products currently in development by CME.


For those of you on the SGW boards who thought I was taking a cheap shot, I'll just point out that we still wouldn't have an official statement on MMOGULS from CME if Loading... didn't run as it stood yesterday. The marketing of this scam is wide and pervasive (just google "MMOGULS Stargate Worlds" to see for yourself, and the deluge of seriously inquisitive emails I received in the last day shows that this isn't simply a matter anyone can laugh off) and the matter simply demanded more official attention than it was getting.

Let's also talk about Loading... a moment. This is not an attempt at serious journalism, this is commentary. I pick the most interesting topic or topics that strikes me each day, present what facts I can find (notably few from either side in this case, if you want to impugn a site's integrity - pick on one of the sites that reported MMOGULS as legit), and we talk about it. The truth always comes out eventually and we go from there. It's no mystery that PR spin doctors control the official face and bearing of this industry, so I'm simply going to call it like I see it, unabashedly and without regrets. An independent take on current events is probably part of the reason you come to Ten Ton Hammer and we're not going to change how we do things.

So if tkksnow wants to snipe us from afar for not asking for a quote before Loading... is released, that's fine. I can be petty too. I'll note that our last two calls for comment (on different matters) were returned only after we went to print and mostly in email, our last scheduled interview appointment was broken by CME on short notice with no clear make-up date, and I have a list of people promised beta access almost two months ago that still haven't been taken care of. None of this inspires confidence that I can get anything more than stall tactics out of CME without a firebrand approach.

Those who care about the game are deeply concerned about the future of Stargate Worlds, and its time that CME did more than turtle up in the official forum community and react belatedly to swirling rumors, some of which have indeed turned out to be fact. We've mistaken fanboyishness for quality journalism in the past, and we're very, very anxious not to do it again.

It should always be serious journalism. If it's not, don't write it. If you do write it, at worst you're Kotaku. At best you're a whore.

Also, the name "Loading..." is stupid and annoying if you're gonna put it in articles.

[Soln]

better than SniperX?

[UnSub]

But guys, you can win a car! 

Twice a month at that. Now there would be a game to grind, min/max and generally devote your life to in order to generate an income.

I wonder who wrote that original message, because it's awful. "Motor Racing Game" "American Football Game".

OH MY FUCKING GOD, IT'S AMWAY WITH VIDEO GAMES. AND SOCIAL NETWORKING BUZZWORDS.

I thought "social networks at play" aka SNAP sounded familiar - CME started talking about it at least when FireSky was set up. So this is where its ended up - a personal selling scheme leveraging online social networks.

I wonder how the devs who were attracted to come to CME feel about this now. Especially the "not getting paid" part.

[damijin]

This story left me confused and sad.

[Ratman_tf]

This story left me confused and sad.

Me too. Am I supposed to feel rage at someone for something? Or laugh at somebody? I'm just confused and afraid that I might be missing out on some lulz.

[schild]

This story left me confused and sad.

Me too. Am I supposed to feel rage at someone for something? Or laugh at somebody? I'm just confused and afraid that I might be missing out on some lulz.

Nah, just more examples of "journalism" in action.

[sidereal]

Wait, the phone being so heavy that nobody at TTH could manage to pick it up is indeed a big part of the story.

But there's a guy on the board of CME that's such a conniving dipshit that he runs a company that illegally uses the CME IP to spam people and scam them out of actual money?  I think that's called fraud.  They have a defrauder on their board?  Nice work.

[raydeen]

GodFuckingDammit. I was really, really, really looking forward to this game. It looked like it was going to be fun. I had the same feelings towards it that I did for CoH (which I still love though play though infrequently). I know it was probably going to be another DIKU fuck fest but at least the setting would have been enjoyable. Ah well.

[Draegan]

What a fucking load of shit.  Hah serious journalism.  I think I should be one.  Who wants to subscribe to my newsletter?  Anyone?  Schild you can come too if you want.  You can doodle in the margins and have it be more accurate that some of that tripe.

God damn.

And TTH's site is crap.

[SnakeCharmer]

Wait, the phone being so heavy that nobody at TTH could manage to pick it up is indeed a big part of the story.

But there's a guy on the board of CME that's such a conniving dipshit that he runs a company that illegally uses the CME IP to spam people and scam them out of actual money?  I think that's called fraud.  They have a defrauder on their board?  Nice work.

Apparently said conniving dipshit is the principal investor leader; as in he was the one that bird dogged the money to fund the game.

[Soln]

the idea of having tons of small investors who receive tiny equity stakes ("friends & family" investors) is not unreasonable.  Every startup in the world does it and in many places there are tax incentives on for the startup and the investor to benefit from.  But the implementation in this was weird.

[raydeen]

[Morfiend]

I'm so confused, slightly scared, and kind of hungry.

Jesus, this thread is turning me in to Signe.

[UnSub]

I'm so confused, slightly scared, and kind of hungry.

Jesus, this thread is turning me in to Signe.

You'll need a new avatar then.

[Cylus]

It should always be serious journalism. If it's not, don't write it. If you do write it, at worst you're Kotaku. At best you're a whore.

Also, the name "Loading..." is stupid and annoying if you're gonna put it in articles.

Why the hate on Kotaku?  Not that I'm a rabid follower/defender of all things Kotaku but I'm rather intrigued as to why a "retired gaming journalist" is so offended by their offerings.

[Triforcer]

It should always be serious journalism. If it's not, don't write it. If you do write it, at worst you're Kotaku. At best you're a whore.

Also, the name "Loading..." is stupid and annoying if you're gonna put it in articles.

Why the hate on Kotaku?  Not that I'm a rabid follower/defender of all things Kotaku but I'm rather intrigued as to why a "retired gaming journalist" is so offended by their offerings.

The answer to that question will become clear if you remember this is what f13 looks like in picture form:

[Soln]

/rez

It's been a month and change.  Is there any new news?  I saw over on FoH that Jerrith has quit.  I was looking forward to this game.  Kinda.

[UnSub]

A lot of people have left CME. Aruspex left to join Carbine on its unnamed MMO. My understanding (picked up from the internet) is that people are getting paid at CME / FireSky, but not everyone is fully paid up in what is owed to them.

Word out of the Stargate Beta was awful (but then it pretty much always is). However, around launch time is the last time you really want to see people jumping ship, so I think CME might not be long for this MMO industry.

... I still want my Deadlands MMO.

[Yoru]

Rumors that I'm hearing roughly corroborate UnSub's. Many people have left, and the numbers left on are insufficient to bring the game to where they wanted it to be for an on-time release. But they're still soldiering on, and we'll probably see something squeak out of the studio. It might just be a pale hollow shell of the developers' initial promises.

Which is pretty much par for the course in this industry.

[Jerrith]

Yes, I'm on my way out of CME.  I'm headed over to ZeniMax Online Studios in Maryland, to work on their unannounced title.  Like I said over on FoH:

It's not over yet. The financial situation has made it very difficult. SGW is far enough along that if CME isn't able to finish it, I suspect someone else will take what's done and get it out.

As for:

Word out of the Stargate Beta was awful (but then it pretty much always is).

There was a period near the end of last year's testing where it truly was awful - almost unplayable, actually, but the problem was found and fixed.  I suspect the most negative comments are coming from that period of time.

[raydeen]

Yes, I'm on my way out of CME.  I'm headed over to ZeniMax Online Studios in Maryland, to work on their unannounced title. 

Please let it be TES:Online...please let it be TES:Online...please let it be TES:Online...

[Sheepherder]

Please let it be TES:Online...please let it be TES:Online...please let it be TES:Online...

Yes, that is just what TES needs, more blandness to appeal to a mass audience.

Also, if they're still using Gamebryo and not getting a new programming crew for engine work this is going to be one hell of a clusterfuck.

[raydeen]

Please let it be TES:Online...please let it be TES:Online...please let it be TES:Online...

Yes, that is just what TES needs, more blandness to appeal to a mass audience.

Also, if they're still using Gamebryo and not getting a new programming crew for engine work this is going to be one hell of a clusterfuck.

I'm sorry, but I'm a rabid TES fanboi since Arena. I've been waiting for an MMO that has the same feel as Arena and Daggerfall. I guess we've come close but something I can't quite put my finger on eludes all the games since. My personal taste maybe. I understand a lot of hate for Morrowind and Oblivion but I enjoyed them as well and would love a TES MMO.  One of the reasons I got into EQ was because I thought it was going to be like Arena/Daggerfall but multiplayer.

I can dream can't I?

[Cylus]

Yes, I'm on my way out of CME.  I'm headed over to ZeniMax Online Studios in Maryland, to work on their unannounced title.  Like I said over on FoH:

Best of luck, AR!  Hopefully will catch you on the flip side to shoot the shit at some point