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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 171499 times)
Nebu
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Reply #1470 on: October 26, 2017, 04:37:24 PM

After reading 'Barbell Medicine" the recommendation is for 1g of protein per pound of body weight (animal based, with at least 3g of leucine per serving), which for me at 6'5" tall and 250 pounds, well, 250g of protein DAILY.  Two chicken breasts is a typical dinner which might net 60g if they are large, so filling up that space has taken a concentrated effort, but has allowed progress to continue.

You really don't need that much protein.  It's also hard on the kidneys and requires a LOT of water to flush out the ammonia.  Just eat as healthy as you can.  I assure you that the amount of protein in your diet isn't going to be the limiting factor in your gains.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #1471 on: October 26, 2017, 05:29:29 PM

Eating right is always the hardest part...

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Cyrrex
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Reply #1472 on: October 27, 2017, 12:25:41 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

Nevertheless, I have over the past year basically stopped with the extra protein.  I stopped initially to help drop my weight down from about 85kg to about 74kg...I wasn't overweight, exactly, but rather I wanted to try a more athletic/aesthetic version of myself.  Anyway, after a couple months I hit the 74kg target.  I did it rather quickly, so quite a bit of raw strength gets lost in the process.  My plan from there was to hover around 75kg bodyweight, but put as much of the strength back on as I could...but I decided to leave the protein alone.  It has generally worked out quite well, for the most part.  My absolute numbers are not as good as they work, but pound for pound I am doing quite well.

So if I use pounds, my 5 rep max numbers are probably as follows, at 165 pounds of BW:

Bench:  235 x 5
Dead:  355 x 5
Squat:  275 x 5
OHP:  155 x 5

I don't like the squat numbers at all, and could probably bump them up if I chose to focus on them a little, but the easiest way to do that is to put on weight, which I do not want.  But the upper body strength is almost where it was before, and way better from a P4P POV.  What's better, now pull ups and dips are trivial.  I can even do muscle-ups for reps, or do them from a dead, static hang for extra bad-assery.  I'm in my mid 40s. 

So, your ceiling may be much higher than you think.  And yeah, if I was doing SS, I would probably do the protein.  But I am finding that it isn't super necessary.


Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Nebu
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Reply #1473 on: October 27, 2017, 08:28:26 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

The reason that protein shakes are a thing is 'marketing'.  Gold medal winning athletes don't use protein shakes nor do they eat 1g per lb of protein a day.  The supplement business has been built to separate people from their money.  

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #1474 on: October 27, 2017, 08:29:20 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

The reason that protein shakes are a thing is 'marketing'.  Gold medal winning athletes don't use protein shakes nor do they eat 1g per lb of protein a day.  The supplement business has been built to separate people from their money. 
It sure has, which is why I've considered getting into it.
Nebu
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Reply #1475 on: October 27, 2017, 08:29:55 AM

It sure has, which is why I've considered getting into it.

Who needs ethics?   Ohhhhh, I see.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #1476 on: October 27, 2017, 09:48:07 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

The reason that protein shakes are a thing is 'marketing'.  Gold medal winning athletes don't use protein shakes nor do they eat 1g per lb of protein a day.  The supplement business has been built to separate people from their money.  


I don't necessarily disagree, but that wasn't the point I was making anyway.  Protein is fine, but the 1g per pound bodyweight thing is for sure overblown.  A reasonable amount of protein seems to do the work via a normal diet.  The exception is probably for drug users.  A lot of the 'common wisdom' from the supplement world - and actually the fitness industry in general - is for juicers.  It works for them, surely it'll work for you!  Except that of course it cannot or will not.  I think huge amounts of protein intake probably fall into that area.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Nebu
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Reply #1477 on: October 27, 2017, 11:00:09 AM

I don't necessarily disagree, but that wasn't the point I was making anyway.  Protein is fine, but the 1g per pound bodyweight thing is for sure overblown.  A reasonable amount of protein seems to do the work via a normal diet.  The exception is probably for drug users.  A lot of the 'common wisdom' from the supplement world - and actually the fitness industry in general - is for juicers.  It works for them, surely it'll work for you!  Except that of course it cannot or will not.  I think huge amounts of protein intake probably fall into that area.

We agree.  My bad.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #1478 on: October 27, 2017, 11:27:25 AM

All that said, there are a few other general arguments in favor of protein.  If you gotta get 2000 or more calories a day from some source (I need about 2500), 100g of protein means you are potentially getting too much caloric intake (1600 plus) from...less good sources.  Ignoring the potential issues on the kidneys, an extra 50 to 100 grams of protein might be better than the alternatives.  Trade offs, and stuff.  It also tends to be more filling, gram for gram, versus carbs (with the same caloric effect).

I don't actually get into all that macro stuff myself, and I get results anyway.  Just eating like a sane person goes a long way...worry about calories in versus calories out first.  Macros are for juicers and people trying to get paper thin fat walls.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Nebu
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Reply #1479 on: October 27, 2017, 11:36:54 AM

I don't actually get into all that macro stuff myself, and I get results anyway.  Just eating like a sane person goes a long way...worry about calories in versus calories out first. 

Eating good food, watching calories loosely, and allowing a cheat day now and again are all good things.  Just caring and actually going to the gym already sets you apart from the majority of the population.

The whole macro dance is really reserved for the top 1%.  I enjoy thinking about it and reading the science, but it's more of an academic exercise.  I'm just happy to see people make an attempt to eat a bit better and exercise.




 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Chimpy
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Reply #1480 on: October 27, 2017, 01:01:25 PM

I actually decided (partially on the recommendation on my doctor when I talked to him about my dietary habits and having issues keeping weight off over the last couple years) to join a medical wieght loss program offered by one of the major healthcare clinics here.

It is a 28day partial meal replacement high protein, low-fat /carb ketosis thing with one on one coaching etc. I started it on Monday and have eaten more green vegetables in 4 days than I may have in my entire adult life. Mainly using the program to force myself to eat vegetables I would not normally eat and change my eating habits. I can't do the "textbook" ketosis diets you read up about on the internet because I can't do high-fat diets so this was really my best option.

Do you know how much celery is in 2 cups?  ACK! (I need to eat 2 cups of veggies that are on their list for lunch and 2 for dinner each day.)


'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
01101010
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Reply #1481 on: October 27, 2017, 02:45:51 PM

Fuck vegetables - I mean we have the fossil record and current biology... plant eaters are always larger animals.  why so serious?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Sky
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Reply #1482 on: October 27, 2017, 02:50:24 PM

Do you know how much celery is in 2 cups?  ACK! (I need to eat 2 cups of veggies that are on their list for lunch and 2 for dinner each day.)


So don't do it with 2 cups of celery? I like celery, but that sounds like a recipe for hating life. And it's mostly water, though you'd get good fiber.

Better to chop up a mix with some carrots, bell peppers, etc. Keep it tasty and mix up the textures so your mouth doesn't hate you.

Merusk
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Reply #1483 on: October 27, 2017, 03:04:33 PM

There are so, so, SO many more vegetables than most of us were raised with.

My ex would only eat corn and green beans French-style. Maybe raw carrots.

Current favorites to include either cooking or as sides are: bell peppers of all colors, onions, jalapenos, lima beans, peas, broccoli, radishes, beets, chard, any lettuce that ISN'T iceberg, spinach, asparagus, garlic, leek, shallots.

Just search out vegetarian recipes and add meat. They know how to mix all kinds of amazing veggies. Try some you haven't and you'll find some additions you wouldn't have considered before.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Sky
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Reply #1484 on: October 27, 2017, 11:09:30 PM

Yeah, I was just going off what I assumed was a baggy full for a cold lunch at work. Even then you could easily get more creative, I just haven't done that. I usually grab a sub from subway, which isn't the greatest but a 6" club on wheat with a metric shitton of spinach, tomato, bell pepp, pickles and olives just hits the spot. And I get a decent serving of veg every week day that way.

At home I'm still a bit limited in veg additions, since the fiancee is finicky, can't use a lot of the onion family, no asparagus, no avocado. Then she bitches I make the same stuff too often undecided I often make a variety and she just won't eat it and comlain, but I kinda gave up on trying to get her to each vegetables. Hell, I have to force her to put fresh lettuce and tomato from the garden on her burger. Some people!

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Reply #1485 on: October 27, 2017, 11:29:29 PM

The list of vegetables I can eat on this diet is really restrictive (though not a small list). Pretty much if it is not green it is not on the list, and green things that are higher in carbs like green beans and peas are not allowed or only allowed a certain amount a week.

Since I have not historically eaten a lot of green vegetables (other than peas), and I have serious texture issues with a number of things I have been starting out with things like broccoli and celery that I have not had issues with in the past while mixing in trying a bit of other things allowed on the list as I go on.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Chimpy
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Reply #1486 on: November 27, 2017, 12:08:28 PM

So since my mega restrictive diet (which ends tomorrow since I added a week to keep myself from being tempted by pumpkin pie and cool whip) doesn't allow for much in the way of cardio excercise and the gym by my house got evicted right as I was going to start doing a bit of weightlifting I decided to try out yoga. A local yoga studio has a "intro" offer where for $30 you get 30 days of access to as many classes as you like.

I actually am liking it a lot more than I expected. I don't really get the spiritual/zen aspect but I have always had flexibility issues in my hips/legs/lower back and it has helped enormously.

Now I just need to decide which gym that also has yoga classes included in their gym membership I want to try since I need to find a new gym and while this yoga studio is pretty awesome they are 80 bucks a month which is more than I want to spend right now, especially when I need to join a gym that costs $30+ a month to get one with free weights.

The diet has gone really well, I am not totally dreading the vegetables and I have lost 25lbs in 5 weeks.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Nebu
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Reply #1487 on: November 27, 2017, 12:32:26 PM

The diet has gone really well, I am not totally dreading the vegetables and I have lost 25lbs in 5 weeks.

That's a pretty impressive bit of progress.  Well done!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Druzil
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Reply #1488 on: November 27, 2017, 12:43:33 PM

Keep it up Chimpy, sound like you are doing great!

I started seriously counting calories again 5 weeks ago and I'm back down to my starting weight for the year.  I was actually under by 1.5 pounds but then Thanksgiving week non stop family events happened.

Anyways, back on it this week and as long as I survive Christmas I plan on carrying into next year and hoping to make some legitimate progress by March or April.  Hoping I can squeeze some gym time into my schedule but for now I'm just doing resistance bands and simple stuff at home.
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Reply #1489 on: November 27, 2017, 03:57:59 PM

I won't be doing the super restrictive diet after tomorrow, will just be back to counting calories in general and going for 1-2lbs a week which will get me to my next goal of "sub 200 by the time I turn 40 in late January."

Since I was 208 this morning that should not be a problem.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Nebu
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Reply #1490 on: November 27, 2017, 04:01:25 PM

I won't be doing the super restrictive diet after tomorrow, will just be back to counting calories in general and going for 1-2lbs a week which will get me to my next goal of "sub 200 by the time I turn 40 in late January."

Since I was 208 this morning that should not be a problem.

If you make a few trades in your diet, you won't have to count.  Keep at it.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Trippy
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Reply #1491 on: November 27, 2017, 04:12:45 PM

I won't be doing the super restrictive diet after tomorrow, will just be back to counting calories in general and going for 1-2lbs a week which will get me to my next goal of "sub 200 by the time I turn 40 in late January."

Since I was 208 this morning that should not be a problem.
It does get harder the more you lose. And 2 lbs a week is pretty aggressive -- that's ~1000 net negative calories a day which is like half the amount of food on a 2000 calorie daily diet.
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Reply #1492 on: November 27, 2017, 04:51:44 PM

2k calories is also just what the FDA uses as a guide.  For my height (5'-11") and being a man I was told a 2,200-2,400 calorie diet is maintenance.

I've been doing 1,500 calories a day and it isn't a lot of food, but you get used to it.  I've done it pretty easily since May/ June which is why I'm down to 222 from 255-260. It DOES limit what you can eat and you start to feel pretty jealous of the guys eating bigger meals in the first few weeks, but it works.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Polysorbate80
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Reply #1493 on: November 27, 2017, 07:17:08 PM

Yep, ~1800/day for me since April.  I'm currently at 182 pounds, down from 248. 

I don't need to lose much more weight, but I'd also like to transition some of the remaining fat for muscle.  I'm honestly not interested in the sort of gains that require gyms, just the kind of fitness you can get from pullups/squats/deadlifts etc.  Basically, things that can be done relatively safely at home with minimal equipment.

So I need to start figuring out how much to eat while shifting body composition, with a rough final goal of maybe 170-175 at just over 6'.  Web-based calorie estimations have been all over the place on that--I've had them show "maintenance" as anywhere between 1800-3000 calories...

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Reply #1494 on: November 27, 2017, 09:47:45 PM

I am actually pretty comfy with averaging 1500 or so a day. I don't typically eat large portions anyway. And 1500 calories is about double what I have been averaging on this diet program I have been on for the last month.

I was under 200 three years ago but between not watching what I eat and not really being able to exercise regularly after my appendix was removed I gained quite a bit back. I gained about 20 pounds between this time last year and September when I decided I had to keep with it. Ski season starts soon and I have some very expensive clothes that were no longer going to fit if I didn't shed the weight  ACK!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 09:51:53 PM by Chimpy »

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Cyrrex
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Reply #1495 on: November 28, 2017, 12:06:10 AM

Everyone is different when it comes to calorie intake.  Your age, your activity level and your body composition all play a role, probably the latter most of all.  At 5'8"  and 165 pounds, I burn 2700 a day on average in order to maintain...so height and weight itself is not indicative.  Online calculators do not do a very good job of calculating your numbers unless you know your exact levels of BMI (which you also cannot trust an online calculator for!).  Anyway, in my experience the only way to find your magic number is to track your calorie intake and your weight over a period of months.  You will eventually get a pretty clear picture of where you are.

Also, you know how sometime the extremely hot girl (and I do mean extremely) at the gym asks you to spot her while she does Lat Pulldowns?  Yeah, there is no need to ever spot a Lat Pulldown, but I sure did appreciate the whole sequence.  Talk about confusing, though.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Merusk
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Reply #1496 on: November 29, 2017, 10:36:24 AM

So.. you asked her out, right? I mean that was her ultimate goal there.

We should change this to the general fitness thread instead of P90x.

In other news; I just got my first real pair of running shoes as I am going to be doing a Tough Mudder next September. This is somewhat terrifying to my 43 year old ass but also exhilarating.  Went to Fleet Feet here and got fitted which gives you an awesome 3d scan of your feet. I already knew I walked on my Toes/ Balls of my feet, but apparently I also have an absurdly high arch and pronate a lot.   

Selected a pair of Brooks Adrenaline GTS 18s and green arch insoles. GF wondered why I didn't get the Hokas but; no neon and I liked the sock feel. This is probably the lightest shoe I've ever owned.. now to get to running. Ach.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Nebu
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Reply #1497 on: November 29, 2017, 11:39:07 AM

I'm a big fan of Brooks shoes for running/training.  I ran in Ghosts for years and recently moved to the Glycerin for logging miles.   Before that I was an Asics devotee.  When I put a few hundred miles on my Brooks, I never went back.




"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #1498 on: November 29, 2017, 11:54:34 PM

So.. you asked her out, right? I mean that was her ultimate goal there.


Well, seeing as I am probably 15 or 20 years older than her, I am (sigh) married and she sometimes is at the gym with her rather large roid-ingesting boyfriend (although not on this occasion), I thought it would be poor form on my part.  She's also out of my league, by virtue of being extremely hot.  Still, I have in the past let my imagination believe she has been eyeballing me, so at least I get a fake ego boost out of it.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
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