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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 166929 times)
Jimbo
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Reply #1435 on: July 16, 2015, 08:28:05 AM

As soon as I hit the 1st hour into cardio it gets better. I'm sure you all that lift crazy get the same kinda burn/high from it too, it seems like after you're going good for the 1st hour it is all good to go for a great session. At least for me it does that. I motivate by thinking of women and the complements they give me :) in short boobies and buttocks  Grin
Miguel
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Reply #1436 on: August 05, 2015, 06:20:46 PM

Question: how realistic is it to expect to continue on a program like starting strength while in a calorie deficit?

I've been on the program for about 7 weeks, and it difficult for me to keep up with 2-3 workouts per week with only 1 day of rest.  I tried cutting calories twice, but since I'm pushing personal bests every workout (+5 pounds with ech workout), I'm finding my ass kicked heartily for up to 3-4 days unless I'm eating and sleeping a lot.  I'm up about 11 pounds, body fat has held steady at 21%.  I'd like to add cardio and cut my body fat down to 15% so I'm not dragging the weight around on the ice.

I get the impression that the program is designed for a hormone-addled 18 year old, and I'm trying to manage being 40. :)

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Cyrrex
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Reply #1437 on: August 06, 2015, 05:20:16 AM

So.  There are a lot of factors to consider, and perhaps some context needed.  In general, the "fatter" you are, the more ability you have to increase muscle and strength gains while on a calorie deficit.  Doubly so when you are a relative noob.  Gains are way easier in this stage partly because the body just responds quickly when you have relatively little muscle mass to start with, and neural adapatation is respsonsible for a big portion of your strength gains as well.  The easiest answer to your question is "are you still able to put 2.5 to 5 pounds on the bar like the program requires?"  If so, don't change anything.  If not, I would say up your calorie intake a bit.  You have only been doing this for 7 weeks, so I doubt you are anywhere close to being at a place where you should stop this program.

But honestly, all this is speculation, because some context is required.  How much do you weigh?  What are your working sets for each of the four main lifts?  The reason I ask is because it helps to understand how much untapped potential you still have with this program.  You need to take the long view here...the path to 15% body fat might be through increasing your calories and muscles mass now, to make cutting it away later easier. 


Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Miguel
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Reply #1438 on: August 06, 2015, 02:12:09 PM

So.  There are a lot of factors to consider, and perhaps some context needed. 

Thanks!

  • Right now I weight 244 lbs:  I've been hovering between 21-22% body fat (at least according to my Fitbit scale:  it may not be terrible accurate but it's supposed to be precise enough for relative measures/changes).  7 weeks ago I was at 233 and the same 21% fat.
  • To date, I've been able to keep up with the program as written.  Several weeks ago I decreased the lower body increment down to 5 pounds.
  • As of last week, I am at: deadlift : (1x5) 165 lbs, Squat: (3x5) 145 lbs, bench press: (3x5) 120 lbs, overhead press: (3x5) 70 lbs (I started on essentially an empty bar in the first week).  I haven't had to reset at any time during the past 2 months (although I did take a week break a few weeks ago)

If I stick to between 2700 and 3000 calories per day I can make 2-3 workouts per week without too much difficulty: 3500 makes it even easier.  If I cut down to around 2000 per day (I tried this for two weeks), then I find I'm still incredibly weak and sore even after up to 4 days of recovery, to the point that I feel very unstable (especially in the squat) and adding weight makes me nervous.  And by recovery I mean:  I like to start the workout feeling rested and very stable, enough so that the first set is very easy and I'm not reaching failure by the end of the third set.  When doing 2000 calories, each set was a struggle, but I could manage to finish each of the three sets.

I really enjoy this program, and I love the simplicity and the fact I can do the entire thing in less than 30 minutes, so I don't want to change it too much.  I'm leaning more towards progressing on strength for the time being, and working on leaning out later, as I know I can drop weight in a controlled way just via diet changes.  I was more wondering if I would be "better off" eating more now and stick with 2-3 times per week, or cutting calories, loosing weight while still doing 1-2 times per week (thus getting benefit of both at the same time).

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Cyrrex
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Reply #1439 on: August 07, 2015, 12:36:23 AM

Given your numbers, I would that you should stick to a level of calories that helps you maintain the progress.  Not necessarily 3500 in your case, maybe the 2700 to 3000 you mentioned below.  You still have a lot of capacity to improve your strength with this program still, so the most important factor for you is to make sure you are eating enough to hit all of your workouts (3, not 2...) and keep adding the prescribed weight on the bar.  Based on your body weight (and your presumed height), you can probably progress this program until you get close to the following numbers:  deadlift : (1x5) 290 lbs, Squat: (3x5) 225 lbs, bench press: (3x5) 190 lbs, overhead press: (3x5) 110 lbs.

You might look at those numbers and think they are unreasonable, but I can assure you that they are not.  Given your size, this is actually pretty conservative.  The idea is to keep heading in this direction on your 3000 calorie a day diet...yeah, maybe you can do it with less, but the gains are what matter most at this point.  And if you start to get in deep waters where you think you are about to hit a wall with one of the lifts, bump your calories up and eat your way through the wall.  If you do this, without being a total pig about it, you will get stronger for sure, and the mirror will probably also show you the results even if the scale does not.  And imagine playing hockey with the same body weight you have now, and being twice as strong.  That's totally achievable.


Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Pezzle
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Reply #1440 on: August 11, 2015, 09:24:10 AM

I am back into P90x again.  This is week 3 and I feel great!  My usual routine is a 5:30AM workout and an optional hour ride after work.  It being summer there are plenty of nights where it is beach parties or dancing for hours.  Some days I feel totally wiped out, but sticking with it has already produced results.  My energy levels and happiness are up.  My weight is down.  My endurance, speed and strength are up.  People are noticing my changes and more importantly I can see and feel the changes happening.  Definitely going to stick with this.  I should mention that my meat consumption is only seafood and eggs.  Within the last couple of months I have given up almost all processed foods.  Eating as much raw food as possible.  LOTS of fruit and veg.  Water intake has to be over a gallon a day.

Trying to get my friends into any kind of exercise has been futile, almost every guy I know is an unrepentant fatty, so no workout buddy for me.  Keeping myself motivated by telling people what I  do every day.  The other motivation is much like Jimbo's.  Never hurts to have beautiful women tell you how good you are looking, or ask you to come and play ;)

I can only imagine what kind of shape I would be in if I had been doing this for the last couple of years.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 09:58:24 AM by Pezzle »
DraconianOne
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Reply #1441 on: September 03, 2015, 05:45:38 AM

I'm doing an ultra in a little over 6 weeks and I'm currently at the point in my training where I'm thinking "What the fuck am I doing and why the fuck am I doing it?"  swamp poop 

Send motivation. Or bacon.

So, attempted a 130 mile ultra but the above thoughts came back to haunt me after 70 miles and I ended up as a DNF. It was a very unforgiving course and it didn't help that I fucked up my nutrition strategy. Going back next year to finish off the course (which has it's own 100k race) but need better (and more positive) preparation before I try the big version again.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Merusk
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Reply #1442 on: September 03, 2015, 08:29:10 AM

I've lost 24# over the last 2 months. It's the first time I've been below 240 in about a decade. Amazing what actual calorie counting does for you when you combine it with a bit of exercise.

I just needed the right app. (My Fitness Pal)  Trying to track shit in your head never works, found out I was eating 2500-3500+ calories a day before. No wonder I'm fat.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
brellium
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Reply #1443 on: September 03, 2015, 09:23:23 PM

I'm doing an ultra in a little over 6 weeks and I'm currently at the point in my training where I'm thinking "What the fuck am I doing and why the fuck am I doing it?"  swamp poop 

Send motivation. Or bacon.

So, attempted a 130 mile ultra but the above thoughts came back to haunt me after 70 miles and I ended up as a DNF. It was a very unforgiving course and it didn't help that I fucked up my nutrition strategy. Going back next year to finish off the course (which has it's own 100k race) but need better (and more positive) preparation before I try the big version again.
Sensei had a run she managed every year for 10-15 years called the stink run, a 20 hour run down the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and back up the North Rim.

‎"One must see in every human being only that which is worthy of praise. When this is done, one can be a friend to the whole human race. If, however, we look at people from the standpoint of their faults, then being a friend to them is a formidable task."
—‘Abdu’l-Bahá
Cyrrex
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Reply #1444 on: September 04, 2015, 12:21:09 AM

I'm doing an ultra in a little over 6 weeks and I'm currently at the point in my training where I'm thinking "What the fuck am I doing and why the fuck am I doing it?"  swamp poop 

Send motivation. Or bacon.

So, attempted a 130 mile ultra but the above thoughts came back to haunt me after 70 miles and I ended up as a DNF. It was a very unforgiving course and it didn't help that I fucked up my nutrition strategy. Going back next year to finish off the course (which has it's own 100k race) but need better (and more positive) preparation before I try the big version again.

Pussy.

Totally kidding, obviously.  I'd end up a DNF if they let me drive the course.  I don't think you need to feel too bad about running "only" 70 miles.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Samwise
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Reply #1445 on: September 14, 2015, 12:25:54 AM

I just needed the right app. (My Fitness Pal)  Trying to track shit in your head never works, found out I was eating 2500-3500+ calories a day before. No wonder I'm fat.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I need to get on that shit.  I managed to lose a pound or two a week for close to a year at one point by just ruthlessly cutting calories and being willing to go to bed hungry every night, but now that I want to try to lose a little more weight I keep on snacking almost without realizing it.  Tracking my weight so I can see when I'm starting to backslide helps, but tracking my calories so I can see where exactly I'm losing ground might help more.

Being more active might actually be hurting me by giving me more of an appetite.  When I lost weight before I was exercising maybe once a week, and now I'm getting some sort of workout every day -- martial arts class three days a week, and a little bit of gym time any day I'm not doing that, mostly just enough to get my blood moving in the morning.  I feel great but I also feel like eating more and I don't think the amount of extra food I'm hungry for is a match for the extra calories I'm burning.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Merusk
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Reply #1446 on: September 14, 2015, 09:09:09 AM

I had the same problem, being active I got hungry and started to eat more and wasn't losing anything. So when I saw the app being talked-up I gave it a shot.

Lots of little lessons about which foods were crap and which were far better choices by using it for the last 3 months. That's the part most approaches miss when trying to get people to change diet. You're not going to get people to give-up fast food and take on a paleo diet cold turkey. It's just never going to happen because of many many reasons, the first being opportunity to find food.

The second reason was the biggest problem I kept running into. Nobody wants to be that guy who never goes to lunch with co-workers. You're quickly isolated and alone, so you go out and then wonder WTF you're going to eat.

So obvious choices like, "eat fruit it's low in calories and high in fiber," are pointless as most places you're eating lunch don't offer anything. However; less well-known choices like, "Taco Bell hard-shell tacos are 170 calories and bean burritos are 370 each.. so maybe I'll have a few tacos instead" were facilitated by the app.

In short - love the app, I'm a big fan. You only have to be obsessive about counting everything you consume and learn the lessons from your diet. It lets you make small alterations over time that add-up to big effects.

Of course, over the last 2 weeks I've been less obsessive and saw myself fluxuate up and down 4-6 pounds. I should be below 230 now but I'm hovering at 232 instead. Damnit.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Chimpy
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Reply #1447 on: September 14, 2015, 12:53:01 PM

I have been using LoseIT off and on for a few years now for the calorie counting and since it can pull data from HealthKit, I can still use whatever apps I like for exercise (as long as they send data to HealthKit) and it automatically logs my exercise.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
stray
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Reply #1448 on: September 16, 2015, 07:31:01 PM

I heard this was a Ponzi scheme. Is anyone here a coach?

I know you get results from the program itself, but they still sound sleazy otherwise.
Teleku
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Reply #1449 on: October 21, 2015, 04:39:42 AM

Through dieting alone, I've managed to drop about 25 pounds in 2 months.  I've had a pretty terrible year, and spent much of it bed ridden or being a hermit who just stayed home and eat/drank heavily.  End result was gaining back a ton of weight, so I finally flipped and dieted hardcore for two months.  Got myself down to 198 from 223 (I'm almost 6'2). Going to keep going further with that, but I think the time has come to start exercising along with it also.  Went scorched earth on the body to just get rid of the excess weight, now time to start converting whats on me to muscle instead of just concentrating on dropping weight/fat.

Anybody know any good body weight routines?  I liked doing the normal P90 before, since it was easy to just watch the video for 30 minutes and make yourself keep up, while mostly doing body weight exercise.  I cannot motivate myself to workout after work regularly, so I have to do it during my lunch breaks, making the P90 kind of hard to do.

So does anybody have a good, mostly body weight exercise routine I can do that's around 30 minute's?  Internet has a billion things when I search google, so any recommendations would be good.  I just have a hard time getting into straight weight lifting.  Its hard to motivate myself, kind of boring, and takes longer.  Or is it really hard to tone and build muscle using body weight exercises only?  Any other suggestions on where to go from here also appreciated.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Draegan
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Reply #1450 on: October 21, 2015, 08:01:35 AM

I've been doing T25 for a few months now. If you want a shorter workout that needs only some bands or light weights this one is pretty good. Dropped like 30lbs.
Teleku
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Reply #1451 on: October 22, 2015, 12:18:35 PM

Hmm, just checked it out.  Does seem perfectly what I was looking for, though still the issue of kind of needing to watch the video.  But hey, screw it, I'll find a private room in the gym somewhere and setup my iPhone or something.  Thanks for the tip off!

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Draegan
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Reply #1452 on: October 22, 2015, 03:35:40 PM

In a few months look at max30 from the same guy. I'll be starting that in a few weeks.
Merusk
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Reply #1453 on: February 16, 2016, 02:16:49 PM

Guys at work talked me into doing Tough Mudder in June with them. I might just have made the worst mistake of my 41-year-old life. I've been getting up to do exercise routines the past two days and can't even get through a single 10min circuit.

Fuck.

Recommendations?

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Chimpy
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Reply #1454 on: February 16, 2016, 02:19:44 PM

Fake an injury?  why so serious?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
01101010
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Reply #1455 on: February 16, 2016, 02:34:39 PM

June? You got enough time to at least finish. Just keep at it. Cliche, but still...

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Merusk
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Reply #1456 on: February 16, 2016, 03:38:15 PM

Oh yeah I know I've got enough time. I was just looking for workout suggestions.

I'm seriously thinking I'm going to have to shell-out for a trainer, though. Even in High School at my lightest, strongest and fittest when swimming I couldn't do a proper pull-up and that seems key to doing some of the obstacles. I'm all goddamn legs and back. Arms and grip always gave out. I can barely hang my sad 240# mass right now, never mind lift it.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Cyrrex
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Reply #1457 on: February 17, 2016, 12:44:03 AM

.....proper pull-up......240# mass.....

Well there's yer problem.  Unless you're built like a linebacker, a 240 pound frame means you are going to be relatively strong in the lower body and relatively weak in the upper.  Pull ups (and therefore all kinds of things related to obstacles) are first and foremost about relative strength.  You have to change the equation, and the easiest place to begin that is to drop weight.

For the pull ups themselves, you might start from the top position and see how long you can hold it and slowly let yourself down (and then jump back up or whatever to begin your next "rep").  So you are working first on the eccentric phase.  That will help you build up some lat strength to eventually work up to an actual pull.  Also, you should probably start with the chin up variation...hands a bit closer together and palms in.  These are generally easier, because people tend to naturally be able to fire all the muscles in this position.

Dips are another good indicator of relative strength vs bodyweight, so that's another good one to work on.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Merusk
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Reply #1458 on: February 17, 2016, 07:41:26 AM

Oh yeah, I didn't expect to lift my fat ass. I'm working on the weight, and am actually down 20# from this time last year. It was 28# but fuck the holidays and winter since I haven't been able to bike since October. I wasn't able to do pull-ups even at my fittest, though. I was only 180-200 in high school and 5-7% body fat. Dips weren't a problem, though.

Back on My Fitness Pal watching calories like a hawk and doing these cardio/ tough mudder training circuits since last Friday. Rough getting back into things after a few months of no exercise. I'll give the hanging thing a shot, thanks for the tip.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
MrHat
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Reply #1459 on: February 17, 2016, 01:35:27 PM

This is probably a good place for this:

I'm thinking of getting a pair of fitness trackers for my wife and I (anniversary coming up), we've both been gym bound the last few months and it would be nice to keep track of stuff.  We don't do too much outdoorsy stuff so GPS isn't super super necessary, but a decent heart rate monitor would be nice as well as some basic phone <--> band connectivity for control/notifications.

I did some basic research and it seemed that the Garmin vivosmart HR was the way I wanted to go, just thought I'd ask if anyone had a huge "DON'T DO IT" rant to share. I liked the OLED and battery life options it seemed to have and I like the smaller form factor over something like a full touchscreen Apple Watch.
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Reply #1460 on: February 17, 2016, 01:55:57 PM

Co-worker had a Gamin so I just asked him. He loved it and thought it was a great product, but he lost it.

Apparently the clasps are just some metal bits that loosely snap into the rubberized band, just like the Fit-Bit. They come loose with wear and fall-off easily after a few months. See if you can find a band with a more traditional watch or belt-style clasp.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Megrim
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Reply #1461 on: March 28, 2016, 08:37:05 PM

Ok people, since this is the de facto fitness thread, I'm going to ask for opinions. What, in your collective experiences, are the best ways of minimising or reducing muscle fatigue after intense exercise. Furthermore, what are the best ways of speeding up recovery?

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
brellium
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Reply #1462 on: March 28, 2016, 10:36:22 PM

Ok people, since this is the de facto fitness thread, I'm going to ask for opinions. What, in your collective experiences, are the best ways of minimising or reducing muscle fatigue after intense exercise. Furthermore, what are the best ways of speeding up recovery?
Lots of water, protein shakes, stretches, lots more water, plenty of sleep, even more water, and off days.

‎"One must see in every human being only that which is worthy of praise. When this is done, one can be a friend to the whole human race. If, however, we look at people from the standpoint of their faults, then being a friend to them is a formidable task."
—‘Abdu’l-Bahá
Cyrrex
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Reply #1463 on: March 29, 2016, 12:29:51 AM

Do you really mean fatigue, or do you mean soreness?

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Megrim
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Reply #1464 on: March 29, 2016, 04:33:10 AM

Both?

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Bungee
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Reply #1465 on: March 29, 2016, 04:35:35 AM

Both?

Foam roll, Lacrosse/Tennis ball for self massages.

Edit: Of course in addition to good diet and stretching as mentioned by brellium.

Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
Nebu
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Reply #1466 on: March 29, 2016, 08:20:10 AM

Water, sleep, rest/days off, and proper diet is the only answer to a quick recovery.  Oh... and being young.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #1467 on: April 11, 2016, 01:31:36 AM

I've started my "spring diet", which is just a fancy way of saying it is time to stop eating like a pig like I normally do during the winter months. I hate the way it instantly affects my lifting.  Like instantly 5-10% weaker, and that is a bitter pill to swallow when strength is a main goal.  So I am feeling this lethargy too.  Kinda puts in perspective why some people choose the juice.  I think I would too if it were both legal and safer.

I did manage some nice new PRs in the decline bench recently:  295# x 1, 285# x 3, and 225# x 15.  That was all like 3 weeks ago, but it feels like a distant memory now.


Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Chimpy
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Reply #1468 on: October 06, 2016, 10:00:45 PM

So I finally decided to start doing the Starting Strength program. A former co-worker of mine had done it before and was interested in starting it up again.

Hardest part was finding a gym locally that had more than one squat/power rack so that we wouldn't be fighting people for equipment.

For people who are just getting into it, they now have an official phone app that is pretty good. It costs 9 bucks but it comes with a mobile version of the book built in and has some animated gifs that show the correct movements for each lift to go along with the program tracking/guide.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Miguel
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Reply #1469 on: October 26, 2017, 04:21:51 PM

Given your numbers, I would that you should stick to a level of calories that helps you maintain the progress.  Not necessarily 3500 in your case, maybe the 2700 to 3000 you mentioned below.  You still have a lot of capacity to improve your strength with this program still, so the most important factor for you is to make sure you are eating enough to hit all of your workouts (3, not 2...) and keep adding the prescribed weight on the bar.  Based on your body weight (and your presumed height), you can probably progress this program until you get close to the following numbers:  deadlift : (1x5) 290 lbs, Squat: (3x5) 225 lbs, bench press: (3x5) 190 lbs, overhead press: (3x5) 110 lbs.
Just to log some progress here after a few years: I ended up taking an extended break due to a bout of heavy travelling to Europe, and moving offices that were no longer close to a gym.  I ended up installing a squat rack in my garage which was just finished a few months ago, so I've been back on the SS program for the past 4 weeks or so.

My weight has been relatively steady at about 255, but my 3x5 work sets for the lifts have reached:
Deadlift - 225
Squat - 185
Bench Press - 105
Overhead press - 80

The only change I made was to de-load from my last PR's by 20%, and reduce the increment on squat + deadlift to 5 pounds, and the presses to 2.5 pounds.

The hardest part of SS I've found isn't even doing the lifts: it's maintaining the protein intake, which I've discovered has been woefully inadequate for me, and may be responsible for the long recovery times.  After reading 'Barbell Medicine" the recommendation is for 1g of protein per pound of body weight (animal based, with at least 3g of leucine per serving), which for me at 6'5" tall and 250 pounds, well, 250g of protein DAILY.  Two chicken breasts is a typical dinner which might net 60g if they are large, so filling up that space has taken a concentrated effort, but has allowed progress to continue.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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