So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)

[K9]

Good on you man!

In my experience motivation is all about having goals that you want to achieve. Something like a 5K can be a goal; or hitting a certain weight on a certain lift. Ultimately it's all about setting high scores, and everyone loves that, right?

[JWIV]

Good on you man!

In my experience motivation is all about having goals that you want to achieve. Something like a 5K can be a goal; or hitting a certain weight on a certain lift. Ultimately it's all about setting high scores, and everyone loves that, right?

Pretty much this.  I basically race not because I'm super competitive, but because throwing money at things forces me to stay motivated and honest with training.

Though unexpected things can also happen - I've signed up for a local softball league (I haven't played in probably 10+ years).  I've never really hit for power or the like in the past, but I did okay (little bloop singles and the like).  But I've also never worked out like I have the past year or two, and it's showing now. I'm crushing the ball now into the deep outfield on a good hit, which is more than a little gratifying.

[schpain]

Just wanted to give thanks for this thread - great info and awesome stories!  I recently made the switch from bodyweight exercises and light boxing to weight training so this thread is becoming somewhat biblical for me (thanks cyrrex and climbj)

I am curious about the conversations earlier in this thread about nutrition and thought i'd toss this into the thread to get a chemists opinion (Nebu!!):

https://campaign.soylent.me/soylent-free-your-body (the marketing piece)
http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 (the recipe)

I love food (which is the hard part, I like eating healthy but don't particularly like preparing food), but an all-in-one food supplement sounds like a good way to moderate my calorific intake AND ensure i'm getting my dietary necessities.  Does a complete food alternative powder stack up with eating a healthy 5-6 meal standard 'chicken/veg fish/veg fruit and protein shakes' diet?

[Cyrrex]

Just wanted to give thanks for this thread - great info and awesome stories!  I recently made the switch from bodyweight exercises and light boxing to weight training so this thread is becoming somewhat biblical for me (thanks cyrrex and climbj)

I am curious about the conversations earlier in this thread about nutrition and thought i'd toss this into the thread to get a chemists opinion (Nebu!!):

https://campaign.soylent.me/soylent-free-your-body (the marketing piece)
http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 (the recipe)

I love food (which is the hard part, I like eating healthy but don't particularly like preparing food), but an all-in-one food supplement sounds like a good way to moderate my calorific intake AND ensure i'm getting my dietary necessities.  Does a complete food alternative powder stack up with eating a healthy 5-6 meal standard 'chicken/veg fish/veg fruit and protein shakes' diet?

I'll let Sir Nebu weigh in on the chemical ups and downs of whatever that soylent thing is, but I will say this much:  Your nutrition plan needs to be aligned with your goals.  And as for goals, I am a broken record at this point, but have a very specific long term goal (e.g. I want a body like Hasselhoff, minus the hair), and a set of several short term goals (e.g. I want to bench 200, squat 300, drop 5% in body fat, gain 20 pounds of muscle, etc.).  Make certain that you are eating to support your goals.  That said...I don't believe in gimmick diets, personally.

[Cyrrex]

More 5/3/1 updates!  I am now on my second week of my second cycle (so week six, I guess).  I feel I am making good progress so far, and have room to keep going.  I'll break each lifting day down.

Squats:  Have set rep records of both 150kg x 7 and 137.5kg x 11.  I guess that is kind of the beauty of this program...everytime you go out there, whether in week 1, 2 or 3, you are trying to set a rep record at that particular weight.  So far I have been able to do that with the squats, with a lot of room to spare (the 150 lift only needed to be a minimum of 1 rep to succeed, and the 137.5 only needed to be 5 reps).  To me that means that there is still much room to improve, because I am still doing way more reps than I am required to do on that last working set.  Therein lies the hidden genius of this program.  I also have to do leg curls as an accessory exercise on squat days.  They take some getting used to, but are not otherwise worth talking about.

Bench Press:  I have always been very good at doing sub-maximal lifting for high reps and repeated sets on the bench, so no huge breakthroughs yet, really.  I am really, really, really working on my form here, though, so I have to be patient.  Have technically a rep record of 97.5 for 10 reps for this program, but I don't consider that any big deal because I am pretty sure I have done similar looking sets in the past, even after doing some even heavier work.  No, my problem with the bench has always been that my one to three rep max stinks.  Still, I have a lot of overhead to improve in theory, because that 97.5 only needed to be a single rep to be called successful for the week.  Hopefully this will push me through to a higher max later on.

Rows:  Technically, this is an accessory lift to the Bench Press day, but it is worth mentioning separately.  In Wendler's Big But Boring version, he recommends dumbbell rows rather than barbell, because most people can use more weight this way (including me) and do faaaar more reps.  More precisely, he recommends Kroc rows, which are the heaviest DBs you can use for a minimum of 20 reps per arm.  I have always been pretty good at these kinds of rows, but I am seeing some significant benefit.  I started doing 4 sets of 32kg for 20 reps without straps, and then doing a last balls-out set with the straps on for 30 or more.  I have worked up to 35kg per DB now and will do 36kg next time.  This has worked the ever-loving shit out of my grip.  I could never have held onto a 35kg DB for 20 reps before with these tiny girl hands of mine, and now I can do it for at least 4 sets.  This is some of the most challenging work of this entire program, no two ways about it.  I can actually already see and feel the results on my forearms.

Deadlifts:  Have done 165kg x 10 and 180kg x7, both clear personal bests for me at those weights (and fuck if I don't nearly pass out by the time I am finished).  Still lots of overhead and room to improve within the format.  I only do the last working set of these with straps, so as to further work my grip.  It is very hard for me to lay off the temptation to do heavier singles, because I love them so much, but I am sticking with it so far.  The last 5 sets you do in the BBB setup using only 50-60% of your max are a MOTHERFUCKER.  It is kind of weird after doing 7 reps at 180 that you will then look at a bar loaded with 105 and tremble at the thought of doing 5 sets of 10 with it, but that's how it is.  Actually better in the second month than in the first as my grip improves, but damn.

Overhead Presses:  67.5kg for 10 and 62.5kg for 13.  Much like the Bench Press, I can do this sub-max pressing all day long, so I don't consider these to be anything great.  I am more interested to see what this looks like when I have another 5 to 10 kilos on the bar, because that's when things start to get hairy for me.


So far, I am pretty convinced of the benefits of this program (for me) on the squats and deads.  And even the DB rows.  The jury is still out on the pressing movements and I guess only time will tell...the problem for me is that, despite following the exact recommendations and percentages, the pressing days are like a hundred times easier than the squatting and deads days.  Aesthetically, I can definitely tell my thighs are actually getting bigger for once, and probably my forearms (which I hope translates into some biceps growth as well, but I doubt it somehow).

[Nebu]

Does a complete food alternative powder stack up with eating a healthy 5-6 meal standard 'chicken/veg fish/veg fruit and protein shakes' diet?

Simple answer: No. 

There is no replacement for a balanced, healthy diet.  Eating right takes as much, if not more work than hitting the gym.  It also happens to account for about 85% of a fitness routine.  While I do recommend taking a multi-vitamin daily, protein shakes and the like are only useful if you have a dietary restriction. 

I know that the Rock published an example of his diet for his Hercules role recently.  It's a solid example of how to eat when trying to gain mass.

[K9]

I know people who have been on elemental diets such Modulen for the treatment of active Crohn's disease, and while it is dull as balls it can have a lot of health benefits.   Note, this is not the same as living on protein shakes.

[schpain]

thanks Nebu - i like the thought of meals being so easy, and because you're not ingesting other miscellaneous stuff you can control calories easily, but in the back of my head i think i knew the answer i'd get...

oh cyrrex, goal for now is strength and weight loss, so i'm testing my max lifts (squat/db/barbell press) but mostly just going 3-4 sets of 8-10 rep at 50-70% of max (decreasing weight per set), then bumping up the weight of the first set when able.  i'm not as ocd as some  but i think in a couple of months when baby is more in routine (he's 1month) i'll be able to sit down and adhere to a regime.  i'm 95kg and 187cm so not 'fat', but want to tone a little more, i'm looking at 85-87kg and generally keep fit.  haven't got weight goals.  yet.

[DraconianOne]

I don't care if you love him or hate him but The Oatmeal describes exactly how I feel about running.

Which is why even though I'm impressed by what you guys do in terms of lifting, I have absolutely no desire to do it myself. See how far and how long I can push myself though, that's an entirely different matter! 

[Nebu]

The primary reason why I don't run more is that it is a very inefficient means to keep my weight in check.  I can lift for 20 mins and get a much greater benefit than I would in a 30 min run.  The fact that I enjoy lifting is a plus.

[K9]

I'm the same as Nebu, plus lifting is a semi-sociable activity for me, a good number of my friends are people I have met at the gym while lifting.

Also, there's that moment when you're holding something heavier than yourself over your head, and you feel all a bit 'FUCK YEAH!' (ditto for deadlifts. Squats and bench can suck it. OHP 4 Lyfe)

[Ingmar]

Neither are structured enough for my lazy self. Getting yelled at by sensei, though, works wonders.

[Nebu]

Neither are structured enough for my lazy self. Getting yelled at by sensei, though, works wonders.

SWEEP THE LEG!

[Ingmar]

More like NO NO NO NO YOU ARE NOT IMPROVING I AM OLD WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME.

[JWIV]

I don't care if you love him or hate him but The Oatmeal describes exactly how I feel about running.

Which is why even though I'm impressed by what you guys do in terms of lifting, I have absolutely no desire to do it myself. See how far and how long I can push myself though, that's an entirely different matter! 

Yah, I love the Oatmeal comic, because it really captures the essence of me and exercise in general.  But for me, I like running and lifting, so I'm completely in love with this current heartrate zone based marathon plan I'm on. 

3 very specific runs during the week (basically a recovery, speedwork, and a LSR), plus 3 days of cross training (I'm doing 30 minutes of different lifts, 30 minutes biking or rowing).  It's _really_ helping with my usual problem of run training, which is after a month or two of it, I burn out and basically hate life and running and just grind it out to the race.

[01101010]

I don't care if you love him or hate him but The Oatmeal describes exactly how I feel about running.

Which is why even though I'm impressed by what you guys do in terms of lifting, I have absolutely no desire to do it myself. See how far and how long I can push myself though, that's an entirely different matter! 

Holy shit part 5 had me in tears, literally. I don't do distance running, and to be frank, fuck running... but I make myself do it once a week because I need something to go along with weights. I am on the opposite spectrum as you all, I do it to gain weight. 7 lbs so far in 10 months and I am the heaviest I have been since my round with anabolics back in the late 90s. However, I made the effort to start lifting on a regimented plan and it is very nice to actually see results, however incremental - at least it is additive.

[Cyrrex]

Good comic.  I immensely dislike running, but I think the mindset is something I can relate to.

I lift weights for a lot of reasons, and I suppose it all starts with having a desire to be healthy and "fit".  I won't lie, though, a good amount of vanity is involved.  For me, it probably isn't quite as much about the aesthetic vanity (I am too old and to bald to win that particular prize).  Most people who go to the gym want to look awesome.  I want to BE awesome, and there is a huge difference.  There are literally truckloads of dudes down at my local (small) gym that are looking pretty good if I have to be objective about it.  Many of them are way bigger and way more "ripped" than me.  In short, they look awesome.  But they aren't awesome, not really.  It's a lie.  They are weak.  There are probably only...two?...guys I have seen at this place that I would say actually are awesome, because they both look strong and actually ARE strong (or at the very least, are working like mad to be as much).  It is suprising how rarely the two things go together.  There are a few guys that do okay on the bench, and even quite a number that are better at it than me (my weakest lift, for sure).  There's the one guy who reps 140kg pretty easily, but then again he is probably about 6'6" and 120kg so who cares?

In my current gym:

I have routinely cleaned and pressed 100kg (and a max of 105).  Next best C&P I have seen is about 50kg.  Once saw 60kg at another gym.  Nobody does this exercise, despite it being awesome and badass looking.
I have Overhead Pressed for reps for 80kg.  Next best I have seen was 60kg.  WTF?  Saw a guy once at another gym do 80 or so, some huge motherfucker.
I managed 155kg squats for 7 reps, and a max of 175kg.  Next best full parallel squat I have seen is 125kg for 6.  Ever.  Never seen anyone else do more than that.  WTF?
I have routinely deadlifted more than 200kg and a max of 220.  Did 175kg for 8 reps the other day for my 5/3/1.  Next best deadlift I have ever seen in person?  165kg for 5 reps.  After that dude, the next best I have seen is 135kg.  Seriously?  I have literally never seen another person put 8 plates on the bar and pick it up.

Not coincidentally, three of the four next bests above came from just one guy, and I consider him to be awesome.  He isn't fucking around.  He'd probably be stronger than me if he tried to be.  There are other guys who don't lift as much but still qualify as awesome, either because of the amount of weight they are pushing for their smaller size, or just because of the sheer effort they put into it.

Anyway, this is not to say that people going the aesthetic route aren't their own kind of awesome.  They often are, and in private moments I could admit to wishing I looked more like them than me.  They work hard in a different way, and I am sure some of them look at me and wonder why they hell I bother trying to do the things I do, when clearly my biceps peak could use a lot of work, and my chest needs more volume.  But my mindset is different than theirs.  I like stepping up to the barbell knowing that what I am about to do is going to completely suck, and I might fail miserably.  It may be something that I have never been able to do before, and might never be able to do again.  There might be an injury risk, or a risk of getting "stapled" or otherwise embarassed, or some other mental hurdle to leap over.  You are either going to end up looking stupid, or looking awesome, and you are in complete control of the outcome.

That's me, at least for now.  In the end, it doesn't matter what your particular obsession is, just go balls out.

[MrHat]

Fucking hell.

Start exercising & swimming regularly and have had a mild pain in my right hip/groin for a while.

Go to doc, he tells me it's Adductor Tendonitis and gives me 800mg of ibuprofen 3x a day for 2 weeks and no strain.

Still hurts after two weeks.

God damn.

[01101010]

Fucking hell.

Start exercising & swimming regularly and have had a mild pain in my right hip/groin for a while.

Go to doc, he tells me it's Adductor Tendonitis and gives me 800mg of ibuprofen 3x a day for 2 weeks and no strain.

Still hurts after two weeks.

God damn.

Welcome to fitness! Where everyone says you'll feel so much better physically, but never tell you about the bullshit injuries. Since I started back I have strained cartilage in my ribcage which meant rest for 4 weeks, developed a stress fracture in my right tibia from trail running, strained ligaments in my left wrist and my left shoulder. It is a joy to behold. Of course these, aside from the knee, are mostly my fault in pushing my aging body a little too hard. But no matter... I AM GETTING FIT! 

[MrHat]

Fucking hell.

Start exercising & swimming regularly and have had a mild pain in my right hip/groin for a while.

Go to doc, he tells me it's Adductor Tendonitis and gives me 800mg of ibuprofen 3x a day for 2 weeks and no strain.

Still hurts after two weeks.

God damn.

Welcome to fitness! Where everyone says you'll feel so much better physically, but never tell you about the bullshit injuries. Since I started back I have strained cartilage in my ribcage which meant rest for 4 weeks, developed a stress fracture in my right tibia from trail running, strained ligaments in my left wrist and my left shoulder. It is a joy to behold. Of course these, aside from the knee, are mostly my fault in pushing my aging body a little too hard. But no matter... I AM GETTING FIT! 

God Damn.

[Ingmar]

Also: BLISTERS BLISTERS BLISTERS

[K9]

What you are experiencing is just weakness leaving your body; it is a transnational phase 

[MrHat]

What you are experiencing is just weakness leaving your body; it is a transnational phase 

Was hoping that, but it hasnt improved even with 2 weeks of anti-inflammatories.

Doc says next step is a shot right in there.

[Chimpy]

So yeah, buying a good quality bicycle was one of the best decisions I have ever made. Have been trying to ride about 5 miles each day (I have a loop on some long roads with bike paths by my house that work really well). Of course, I just spent 100 bucks on shoes and pedals with clips, but the total price of the bike I got off of ebay (previous owner never rode it, I just had to drive 3 hours to pick it up) and all of the additional things like trip computer, pedals, shoes, and a good lock + the gas to go pick it up is still less than what a brand new one of the same model would have cost :)

On a related note, the cardio conditioning plan the trainer gave me is working well even after only doing it for a couple of "cycles". I am actually having trouble getting up to the "max" heart rate target (on the day I have to fluctuate between that and "60%") going pretty much as hard as I can on the elliptical-type thing set to max resistance. 

I start working with the trainer regularly probably the week after next, hopefully I can keep seeing results.

[Hammond]

So I tried P90X last year and it was great until I hurt myself (isn't getting old great?) Tearing a pectoral muscle because you do a movement wrong is no fun. So this year I started off walking then jogging until it the weather got hot. Now I do about 4 miles in the gym on either the treadmill or elliptical roughly 5 days a week. I also do yoga twice a week to help with the flexibility. I would do more yoga if I could :). Since February I have lost about 25 pounds and I am down a total of 45 pounds from my heaviest I am at 215 and my goal is around 200 which was my high school weight. One of my co-workers has been trying to convince me to do cross-fit but it looks like more pain than its worth to me.

[MrHat]

So I tried P90X last year and it was great until I hurt myself (isn't getting old great?) Tearing a pectoral muscle because you do a movement wrong is no fun. So this year I started off walking then jogging until it the weather got hot. Now I do about 4 miles in the gym on either the treadmill or elliptical roughly 5 days a week. I also do yoga twice a week to help with the flexibility. I would do more yoga if I could :). Since February I have lost about 25 pounds and I am down a total of 45 pounds from my heaviest I am at 215 and my goal is around 200 which was my high school weight. One of my co-workers has been trying to convince me to do cross-fit but it looks like more pain than its worth to me.

Kick ass!

[Cyrrex]

So I tried P90X last year and it was great until I hurt myself (isn't getting old great?) Tearing a pectoral muscle because you do a movement wrong is no fun. So this year I started off walking then jogging until it the weather got hot. Now I do about 4 miles in the gym on either the treadmill or elliptical roughly 5 days a week. I also do yoga twice a week to help with the flexibility. I would do more yoga if I could :). Since February I have lost about 25 pounds and I am down a total of 45 pounds from my heaviest I am at 215 and my goal is around 200 which was my high school weight. One of my co-workers has been trying to convince me to do cross-fit but it looks like more pain than its worth to me.

Good for you.

We've gone over crossfit a couple times in this thread, I think, but I've no doubt that their are different opinions on it.  Personally, while I think that the group dynamic and the general mindset of really pushing yourself are a potentially great thing - I cannot get over the fact that some of the movements they do are downright foolish.  They take some of the most complex technical movements like power cleans or deadlifts and turn them into fast paced cardio activities, and then lead you to believe that this is good functional training.  Not only is it NOT good functional training (what real world activity ever requires you to pick up a relatively light weight 50 times as fast as you can?), but it is potentially dangerous because maintaining good form is not likely.  It is also somewhat pointless....I mean, it is absolutely a good cardio workout, but the weight lifting part of it is doing next to nothing (you can quite literally get more out of a single heavy deadlift than 50 very light ones).  So why not just stick to cardio?

Crossfit is almost a good idea, because there are some good things in it.  If they would just drop some of the obviously stupid stuff.  

Another thing about it, and this is pretty anecdotal - I have never seen the inside of a dedicated Crossfit gym, but in the organized Crossfit groups I have seen within the gyms I train, I notice a trend.  The people who train in these groups are, almost to the person either a) old, b) overweight, c) clearly out of shape, or d) all of the above.  Sometimes I see a person who breaks out of this mold, but even then we are not usually talking about some Adonis, or someone who is just murdering all the exercises.  I have no doubt that at a dedicated Crossfit facility that this will not always be the case.  There are always tons of exceptions.

Look around the gym.  The old ladies are doing their slow aerobics in their old lady aerobics class.  They still look like old ladies and they all move slow as shit.  The out-of-shape 20 and 30 something ladies are in the aerobics hall right next to them, doing some slightly more intense stuff.  Maybe they are pretend kickboxing or something.  90% of them are sucking wind and not looking like top physical specimens - but the more intense these classes get, the better looking the people seem to be (men or women, but usually its women in these classes).  Look at the crossfit people over in the corner (see above descriptions).  Man, they sure look like they are working hard, on account of all the heavy breathing and lying on the floor in exhaustion, but other than that they are not all that impressive to look at.  Look over there on the treadmills, and that's where you find the overweight people.  They are always on the treadmills for some reason, and they are always overweight.  Why not just save yourself 100 bucks a month and go do that shit outside?  Oh look, over on the stationary cycles (where I am there are also cycling classes)...a bunch of old men that are wearing Tour de France clothing for some reason.  They are wearing their cycling outfits (tight spandex FTW) and cycling shoes (clip clop clip clop).  They all have big beer bellies for some reason and don't actually cycle particularly fast.  Nice calves, though.  Now over to the elipticals....meh, too tough to call.  You get all kinds on these, because some really in shape people see the benefit of this kind of zero-impact cardio.  Now, over to the machine weights.  Okay, now we are getting somewhere.  I mean, there are plenty of people coming from all the previous stations dabbling on the machines, so you get all types.  This is where the general gym population meets.  A total mixed bag, you'll find every type here, but suddenly a higher percentage of people who are "looking good"  Now venture on over to the free weights.  Okay, now we are getting somewhere.  All of sudden, the numbers flip around.  These people all seem to be in good shape.  Yes, there is the occasional crusty guy that appears not to belong, or somebody's new girlfriend who doesn't seem to know what she is doing.  But also, for some mysterious reason - despite the fact that thousands of years of fake science has proven that lifting real weights makes all women bulky and unattractive - there are a surprising number of hot women here.  All the men seem to have muscles, you know, if you like that sort of thing.  Funny thing is, this is probably the smallest area in the gym.  Think about that.  The place where all the fit people in the gym are is relegated off to a tiny corner in the gym, and most people going to the gym have not interest in going over there.  How much sense does that make?

The point is this:  Which group do you want to be in?  If you want to lose weight, should you really be on the treadmills where all the overweight people are?  If you want to be in super good shape, should you join the old ladies aerobics class?  Do you want to look like the guys in the cycling class?  Do you want to look like the skinny fat (or just fat) girls doing the fake kickboxing?  Or maybe there is another class full of super in-shape people you could join?  Do you want to look like the people in the Crossfit group?  Do you want to model yourself after the men and women that seem to populate the free weight area?

Do the same things as the people you want to look like are doing.  It is that simple.  There is no graduation process.  You do not need start out on the treadmill and shed the pounds, and then work your way up to the elipticals or the machine weights, and then eventually to the free weights.  Hell, the last thing an overweight person should probably do in the gym is step on a treadmill, not least of which because it is super unforgiving on your body.  If you want to look like people who do Crossfit, do Crossfit right now.  If you want to look like the people in the free weight section, go over there right now and stay away from all the other stuff.  Model yourself after the people you aspire to.  The biggest guy in the gym didn't get there by wasting time on the bike.  The strongest guy isn't messing with the machine weights.  The fittest women are not in the aerobics class.  The hottest women are not stuck using the adductor and abductor machines every single day.  The best runners and cyclists aren't even in the gym.  Who do you want to be?  Do what those people are doing, right now.  Don't try to work your way up to it (oh, I just need to drop 20 pounds so I can keep up with the kickboxing ladies before I joint that class).  It doesn't work that way.  The only way you will be ready to do fake kickboxing is to do some damn fake kickboxing.  The only way you will be ready to lift barbells is to start lifting barbells.

I think a lot of people feel that they don't "belong", and therefore avoid doing some of these things.  And therefore the remain just as they are, doing the same things they always do and going nowhere.  Yes, people are judgemental as hell, but I'll tell you this much:  for every person out their who thinks you don't belong and should go back to your treadmill, there is a guy like me who is thinking "fuck yeah, big dude! " and totally admires what you are trying to do.  And really, most of the time people don't care, as long as you aren't being a moron.  

TL;DR - So again, and I think this is advice anyone can follow:  Think about the people you know or see in the gym that you would like to be like.  How are they achieving that?  Stop what you are doing, and go do the same things they are doing.

[ezrast]

So yeah, buying a good quality bicycle was one of the best decisions I have ever made. Have been trying to ride about 5 miles each day (I have a loop on some long roads with bike paths by my house that work really well). Of course, I just spent 100 bucks on shoes and pedals with clips, but the total price of the bike I got off of ebay (previous owner never rode it, I just had to drive 3 hours to pick it up) and all of the additional things like trip computer, pedals, shoes, and a good lock + the gas to go pick it up is still less than what a brand new one of the same model would have cost :)

I splurged on a bike a couple weeks ago and am also thinking it was a good decision. I hate jogging but I used to make myself do it anyway - I never realized just how huge a difference it is to go impact-free. I'm still getting over the novelty of feeling nicely worked out after a 10-mile ride without the accompanying feeling that somebody just tried to murder me with a rolling pin.

[01101010]

Thing about free weights though, your body takes a long time to see results. I was chatting about this with my coworker who keeps flirting with the idea. We were talking about why weights take so long to start seeing muscle development. Leaving diet aside, which is the bulk of it really, weights take forever because you can only break down your body so often. For myself, I rest the body part I workout for at least 5 days. Pointing this out to my buddy, doing back once a week means I really only lift back 4 times a month, the rest of that time is letting it repair the muscle fibers. In that time, you have to feed it the stuff if needs which also means a change in diet. People view that as too much work for to gradual a result. However, the results stick around a lot longer and the changes to diet stay (or at least should be remembered) because you re-learned what to eat and created a new habit.

You have to really commit to weight training because the transformation comes gradually rather than the promise of shedding pounds or growing muscles in a few weeks with "<trendy exercise routine of the month>." It's a psychological thing with people. That is why companies are looking for the miracle pill that takes weight off without doing a thing.

I splurged on a bike a couple weeks ago and am also thinking it was a good decision. I hate jogging but I used to make myself do it anyway - I never realized just how huge a difference it is to go impact-free. I'm still getting over the novelty of feeling nicely worked out after a 10-mile ride without the accompanying feeling that somebody just tried to murder me with a rolling pin.

I am so using this as my description for the after effects of running.

[Cyrrex]

That's an interesting thought, but consider this:  If lifting weights takes a long time to see results, consider that most people who go on major cardio and diet adventures usually end up failing and reversing their gains.  They end up repeating the cycle forever, usually never quite succeeding.  And even when they do succeed, they rarely ever improve beyond anything that they could have achieved in, say, their first few months of diet and exercise.  What I mean is, in 6 months you could lose 40 pounds and be a pretty decent runner.  Five years from now, after cycles of going up and down, you could end up having lost 40 pounds and being a pretty decent runner.  The ceiling seems pretty low, and the success rate fairly low as well.  Over the long term, I have no doubt that this is a poorer return on investment, but that's just me.

So, you aren't wrong.  But in both cases, it has to be a permanent lifestyle change in order for it to work.  A better question people should be asking is which end result they want to achieve.  Either way, you are going to have to bust your ass.

Also, can we not just agree once and for all that the only people who should ever run are the people that want to be really fucking good at running for whatever reason?  Don't do it to lose weight, Gods no.  I am always impressed (from a distance) by the feats of the runners posting in this thread, but the rest of us should avoid it like the plague.  Doing sprints is different, I don't consider it the same thing.

[JWIV]

That's an interesting thought, but consider this:  If lifting weights takes a long time to see results, consider that most people who go on major cardio and diet adventures usually end up failing and reversing their gains.  They end up repeating the cycle forever, usually never quite succeeding.  And even when they do succeed, they rarely ever improve beyond anything that they could have achieved in, say, their first few months of diet and exercise.  What I mean is, in 6 months you could lose 40 pounds and be a pretty decent runner.  Five years from now, after cycles of going up and down, you could end up having lost 40 pounds and being a pretty decent runner.  The ceiling seems pretty low, and the success rate fairly low as well.  Over the long term, I have no doubt that this is a poorer return on investment, but that's just me.

So, you aren't wrong.  But in both cases, it has to be a permanent lifestyle change in order for it to work.  A better question people should be asking is which end result they want to achieve.  Either way, you are going to have to bust your ass.

Also, can we not just agree once and for all that the only people who should ever run are the people that want to be really fucking good at running for whatever reason?  Don't do it to lose weight, Gods no.  I am always impressed (from a distance) by the feats of the runners posting in this thread, but the rest of us should avoid it like the plague.  Doing sprints is different, I don't consider it the same thing.

 
 I thought we had already agreed that exercise in general is a pretty shit way to lose weight. It fucking starts and ends with DIET and what you shove into the gaping maw.  You exercise for specific goals (sometimes little things like I need to be able to carry a balance bike, diaper bag, and 2 kids without dying, and sometimes bigger things like, it would be cool to run 26.2 miles one day, or lift heavy things, or whatever).

[Cyrrex]

Well, of course it is, at least by itself.  Very inefficient.  Not eating a Snickers is far easier than runing the 4 miles it would take to burn the caloric equivalent.

On the other hand, since we wouldn't be in this thread if we weren't also interested in using exercise as a supplement to controlling weight, we might as well discuss it, right?  And besides, just losing weight doesn't make you look particularly great.  Some kind of exercise goes a long way to improving how you look. 

Couldn't agree more though that you exercise for your goals.  That's what it's all about.

[ezrast]

When I exercise it's because heart disease runs in my family, I don't have a great respiratory system as-is, and cardiopulmonary disorder is my second-greatest fear in life. I don't have weight or body image issues but I really, really don't want to have a heart attack at forty so I focus mostly on cardio (feel free to educate me on why "cardio = heart health" is a misconception, if applicable). Running was simply my "default" form of cardio since it takes no equipment, it can be done anywhere, and I saw my parents doing it growing up (of course, I also saw them suffer through myriad knee and foot issues over the years...).

[Hammond]

Weight training will be part of my regime at some point however like ezrast I have heart disease that runs in my family. So I am more focused on cardio and while I am not a big fan of treadmills or elliptical it is in the high 90's low 100's here after work so its impossible to run outside. I have a bunch of runners at my gym that do what I am doing that are in far better shape than me just for this reason. (Although I am getting better slowly). I can care less what people think when I workout so suffering and lifting light is not going to bother me a bit once I start lifting again.

[Nebu]

Weight training will be part of my regime at some point however like ezrast I have heart disease that runs in my family. So I am more focused on cardio and while I am not a big fan of treadmills or elliptical it is in the high 90's low 100's here after work so its impossible to run outside. I have a bunch of runners at my gym that do what I am doing that are in far better shape than me just for this reason. (Although I am getting better slowly). I can care less what people think when I workout so suffering and lifting light is not going to bother me a bit once I start lifting again.

Keep in mind that heart disease is regulated best by diet.  Also check to see if familial hypercholesterolemia is in your family. 

Any kind of exercise will be of benefit, so do whatever keeps you moving!