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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 166930 times)
Nebu
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Reply #1470 on: October 26, 2017, 04:37:24 PM

After reading 'Barbell Medicine" the recommendation is for 1g of protein per pound of body weight (animal based, with at least 3g of leucine per serving), which for me at 6'5" tall and 250 pounds, well, 250g of protein DAILY.  Two chicken breasts is a typical dinner which might net 60g if they are large, so filling up that space has taken a concentrated effort, but has allowed progress to continue.

You really don't need that much protein.  It's also hard on the kidneys and requires a LOT of water to flush out the ammonia.  Just eat as healthy as you can.  I assure you that the amount of protein in your diet isn't going to be the limiting factor in your gains.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #1471 on: October 26, 2017, 05:29:29 PM

Eating right is always the hardest part...

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Cyrrex
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Reply #1472 on: October 27, 2017, 12:25:41 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

Nevertheless, I have over the past year basically stopped with the extra protein.  I stopped initially to help drop my weight down from about 85kg to about 74kg...I wasn't overweight, exactly, but rather I wanted to try a more athletic/aesthetic version of myself.  Anyway, after a couple months I hit the 74kg target.  I did it rather quickly, so quite a bit of raw strength gets lost in the process.  My plan from there was to hover around 75kg bodyweight, but put as much of the strength back on as I could...but I decided to leave the protein alone.  It has generally worked out quite well, for the most part.  My absolute numbers are not as good as they work, but pound for pound I am doing quite well.

So if I use pounds, my 5 rep max numbers are probably as follows, at 165 pounds of BW:

Bench:  235 x 5
Dead:  355 x 5
Squat:  275 x 5
OHP:  155 x 5

I don't like the squat numbers at all, and could probably bump them up if I chose to focus on them a little, but the easiest way to do that is to put on weight, which I do not want.  But the upper body strength is almost where it was before, and way better from a P4P POV.  What's better, now pull ups and dips are trivial.  I can even do muscle-ups for reps, or do them from a dead, static hang for extra bad-assery.  I'm in my mid 40s. 

So, your ceiling may be much higher than you think.  And yeah, if I was doing SS, I would probably do the protein.  But I am finding that it isn't super necessary.


Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Nebu
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Reply #1473 on: October 27, 2017, 08:28:26 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

The reason that protein shakes are a thing is 'marketing'.  Gold medal winning athletes don't use protein shakes nor do they eat 1g per lb of protein a day.  The supplement business has been built to separate people from their money.  

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
schild
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Reply #1474 on: October 27, 2017, 08:29:20 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

The reason that protein shakes are a thing is 'marketing'.  Gold medal winning athletes don't use protein shakes nor do they eat 1g per lb of protein a day.  The supplement business has been built to separate people from their money. 
It sure has, which is why I've considered getting into it.
Nebu
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Reply #1475 on: October 27, 2017, 08:29:55 AM

It sure has, which is why I've considered getting into it.

Who needs ethics?   Ohhhhh, I see.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #1476 on: October 27, 2017, 09:48:07 AM

The reason protein shakes are a thing is that it is an easier way to get that 200g or more a day in your system.  You can easily make a 75 to 100g shake twice a day, though it can be a bit costly.

The reason that protein shakes are a thing is 'marketing'.  Gold medal winning athletes don't use protein shakes nor do they eat 1g per lb of protein a day.  The supplement business has been built to separate people from their money.  


I don't necessarily disagree, but that wasn't the point I was making anyway.  Protein is fine, but the 1g per pound bodyweight thing is for sure overblown.  A reasonable amount of protein seems to do the work via a normal diet.  The exception is probably for drug users.  A lot of the 'common wisdom' from the supplement world - and actually the fitness industry in general - is for juicers.  It works for them, surely it'll work for you!  Except that of course it cannot or will not.  I think huge amounts of protein intake probably fall into that area.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Nebu
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Reply #1477 on: October 27, 2017, 11:00:09 AM

I don't necessarily disagree, but that wasn't the point I was making anyway.  Protein is fine, but the 1g per pound bodyweight thing is for sure overblown.  A reasonable amount of protein seems to do the work via a normal diet.  The exception is probably for drug users.  A lot of the 'common wisdom' from the supplement world - and actually the fitness industry in general - is for juicers.  It works for them, surely it'll work for you!  Except that of course it cannot or will not.  I think huge amounts of protein intake probably fall into that area.

We agree.  My bad.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #1478 on: October 27, 2017, 11:27:25 AM

All that said, there are a few other general arguments in favor of protein.  If you gotta get 2000 or more calories a day from some source (I need about 2500), 100g of protein means you are potentially getting too much caloric intake (1600 plus) from...less good sources.  Ignoring the potential issues on the kidneys, an extra 50 to 100 grams of protein might be better than the alternatives.  Trade offs, and stuff.  It also tends to be more filling, gram for gram, versus carbs (with the same caloric effect).

I don't actually get into all that macro stuff myself, and I get results anyway.  Just eating like a sane person goes a long way...worry about calories in versus calories out first.  Macros are for juicers and people trying to get paper thin fat walls.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Nebu
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Reply #1479 on: October 27, 2017, 11:36:54 AM

I don't actually get into all that macro stuff myself, and I get results anyway.  Just eating like a sane person goes a long way...worry about calories in versus calories out first. 

Eating good food, watching calories loosely, and allowing a cheat day now and again are all good things.  Just caring and actually going to the gym already sets you apart from the majority of the population.

The whole macro dance is really reserved for the top 1%.  I enjoy thinking about it and reading the science, but it's more of an academic exercise.  I'm just happy to see people make an attempt to eat a bit better and exercise.




 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Chimpy
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Reply #1480 on: October 27, 2017, 01:01:25 PM

I actually decided (partially on the recommendation on my doctor when I talked to him about my dietary habits and having issues keeping weight off over the last couple years) to join a medical wieght loss program offered by one of the major healthcare clinics here.

It is a 28day partial meal replacement high protein, low-fat /carb ketosis thing with one on one coaching etc. I started it on Monday and have eaten more green vegetables in 4 days than I may have in my entire adult life. Mainly using the program to force myself to eat vegetables I would not normally eat and change my eating habits. I can't do the "textbook" ketosis diets you read up about on the internet because I can't do high-fat diets so this was really my best option.

Do you know how much celery is in 2 cups?  ACK! (I need to eat 2 cups of veggies that are on their list for lunch and 2 for dinner each day.)


'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
01101010
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Reply #1481 on: October 27, 2017, 02:45:51 PM

Fuck vegetables - I mean we have the fossil record and current biology... plant eaters are always larger animals.  why so serious?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Sky
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Reply #1482 on: October 27, 2017, 02:50:24 PM

Do you know how much celery is in 2 cups?  ACK! (I need to eat 2 cups of veggies that are on their list for lunch and 2 for dinner each day.)


So don't do it with 2 cups of celery? I like celery, but that sounds like a recipe for hating life. And it's mostly water, though you'd get good fiber.

Better to chop up a mix with some carrots, bell peppers, etc. Keep it tasty and mix up the textures so your mouth doesn't hate you.

Merusk
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Reply #1483 on: October 27, 2017, 03:04:33 PM

There are so, so, SO many more vegetables than most of us were raised with.

My ex would only eat corn and green beans French-style. Maybe raw carrots.

Current favorites to include either cooking or as sides are: bell peppers of all colors, onions, jalapenos, lima beans, peas, broccoli, radishes, beets, chard, any lettuce that ISN'T iceberg, spinach, asparagus, garlic, leek, shallots.

Just search out vegetarian recipes and add meat. They know how to mix all kinds of amazing veggies. Try some you haven't and you'll find some additions you wouldn't have considered before.

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Sky
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Reply #1484 on: October 27, 2017, 11:09:30 PM

Yeah, I was just going off what I assumed was a baggy full for a cold lunch at work. Even then you could easily get more creative, I just haven't done that. I usually grab a sub from subway, which isn't the greatest but a 6" club on wheat with a metric shitton of spinach, tomato, bell pepp, pickles and olives just hits the spot. And I get a decent serving of veg every week day that way.

At home I'm still a bit limited in veg additions, since the fiancee is finicky, can't use a lot of the onion family, no asparagus, no avocado. Then she bitches I make the same stuff too often undecided I often make a variety and she just won't eat it and comlain, but I kinda gave up on trying to get her to each vegetables. Hell, I have to force her to put fresh lettuce and tomato from the garden on her burger. Some people!

Chimpy
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Reply #1485 on: October 27, 2017, 11:29:29 PM

The list of vegetables I can eat on this diet is really restrictive (though not a small list). Pretty much if it is not green it is not on the list, and green things that are higher in carbs like green beans and peas are not allowed or only allowed a certain amount a week.

Since I have not historically eaten a lot of green vegetables (other than peas), and I have serious texture issues with a number of things I have been starting out with things like broccoli and celery that I have not had issues with in the past while mixing in trying a bit of other things allowed on the list as I go on.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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