WOTLK raid progression.

[Ratman_tf]

Okey dokey. I've been hearing that some of the poopsock guilds have already burned through all the raid content in Wrath. This is the first WoW expansion where I've hit the ground raiding  and am wondering how long it takes the average  guild to go through. Mine, for example. is still getting Naxx25 and Auch/Sarth25 down, while waiting for some of our guildies to hit 80.

Where are you at raiding? I'm sure most aren't as... dedicated as the poopsockers.

[Khaldun]

We're deliberately going slow: folks consciously did not want to burn through everything (and we're not a hardcore guild in any event). So mostly folks are just doing the normal instances and a smaller group of us are doing Heroics...we'll probably start on Naxx fairly soon. So far I've found that some of the Heroics are really no big deal but some are strikingly difficult--Old Kingdom on Heroic is a gear check as well as a tactics check.

[K9]

The bleeding edge guilds had cleared the raid content within 3-4 days of release. Most casual guilds are probably still progressing through T7 content quite happily I'd imagine. There's such a range of guilds though it's hard to say what constitutes average. So long as you're having fun, and not feeling cockblocked then you're progressing fine I'd say.

[Ratman_tf]

The bleeding edge guilds had cleared the raid content within 3-4 days of release. Most casual guilds are probably still progressing through T7 content quite happily I'd imagine. There's such a range of guilds though it's hard to say what constitutes average. So long as you're having fun, and not feeling cockblocked then you're progressing fine I'd say.

Oh yeah. Just wondering where people here are at. I'm happy with my guild's progress. I'm also boggling a bit at the fast consumption of the content. I don't even see how it's physically possible to squeeze all the raids into 3-4 days. It took me weeks to hit 80, and I racked up 50 hours one week. (Yay for unemployment!  )

[Zetor]

We only have about 6 people at 80 atm and they all hit 80 within the last 2 weeks, so we're just doing heroics (did about 4-5 so far). Not sure we'll be doing any raiding at all even after everyone hits 80, so eh.

I've pugged sartharion-25 [no drakes] though. 


-- Z.

[Azaroth]

My guild is small, but we've downed everything as far as 10 man raids. You only really need a core of about 5 people with gear for 10 mans. We have three geared DPS, one relatively geared tank and one relatively geared healer. We sub in the rest as necessary, and they don't usually have great gear.

We generally pug into 25 mans which works out fine, provided you know what pugs to get into and what ones not to.

Edit: I mean for 25 man Naxx. OS25 (no drakes..) and 25 man Vault are incredibly e-z.

[Paelos]

Our guild alliance has done full clears on all the 10 man stuff, one run 9 bosses in 25 man Naxx, and I've cleared out both Archavon and Eye of Obsidian. We haven't tried any of the fancy drake stuff on Eye yet. I've got a second 25 man going into Naxx at the beginning of the year.

[Fabricated]

My guild is going to start 10-manning Naxx like...tonight. Sarth is so easy with no drakes up my guildmates have been running him for a while. Everyone's been itching to get into Naxx but work/class has really split everyone up on the leveling, along with people like me who wanted to enjoy the ride.

Lot of my guildies have been successfully pugging Archavon in 10/25 man flavors for weeks.

[Fordel]

A large chunk of my guild isn't even 80 yet.

[Scadente]

The guild Im in is pretty "casual", so we havent really guild-raided alot. Most people arent even 80 yet (I poopsocked and was guildfirst 80, WotLK just clicked for me  ), and people are just playing around with alts, doing wintergrasp, sitting around doing nothing.

As far as raiding goes, Ive pugged VoA and Obsidian Sanctum. Also done some bosses in Nax. Everything is really easy, in the good sense, no more if you fail doing X while Y is happening; YOU DIE. The wintergrasp boss takes all of 10minutes if the tanks have done it before, and people "dont stand in the fire". So far the raiding content is really nice, its nice to be able to Pug stuff and not have to wipe 5 times on a boss.

[Modern Angel]

It's not that people were hardcore catassing but rather that the content was easy. We literally cleared each zone the first night we tried. So, yeah, two nights naxx (because it's big and we were undergeared), one try Sarth, three tries Malygos. Beat the game. Two nights raiding a week, grand total of six hours.

The meat is in the optional difficulty stuff. Sarth+3 will destroy a guild of bads but it doesn't take any more time than it otherwise would.

[Azaroth]

While the absolute only difficulty in OS is keeping everyone from being hit by waves, I still can't imagine doing +3 drakes. The situation would just be too chaotic for a pug to ever succeed at.

[Modern Angel]

Oh, absolutely but it's not what I'd call a catass thing, either. The time investment learning it isn't huge. It really is a skill check first, gear check second and time check waaaayyyy at the bottom.

[Sjofn]

A large chunk of my guild isn't even 80 yet.

We're like one person away from being able to do ten mans, what are you bitching about! We're just not ever on at the same time. I think you mean "a large chunk of the guild we have to raid with in order to even do ten mans isn't even 80 yet."

[Fordel]

Semantics 

[Ratman_tf]

It's not that people were hardcore catassing but rather that the content was easy. We literally cleared each zone the first night we tried. So, yeah, two nights naxx (because it's big and we were undergeared), one try Sarth, three tries Malygos. Beat the game. Two nights raiding a week, grand total of six hours.

The meat is in the optional difficulty stuff. Sarth+3 will destroy a guild of bads but it doesn't take any more time than it otherwise would.

At first I was like manwhat? So Malygos is as far as Wrath goes so far, right? I thought people had beat down Arthas and were waiting on the next raid expansion patch to open up more content.

[Paelos]

I think they went a bit too far reacting to the problems of the last expansion's raid difficulty. The difficulty of Gruul's Lair was a very high starting point most groups, with a huge amount of damage hitting the tanks randomly and a lot of coordination and DPS needed to get the last boss down. There was also the stupidity of making a 10 man run absolutely mandatory to complete before 25 man runs could commence. People bitched that the content was ridiculously overtuned, so they nerfed it later. Then, they kept nerfing it until is was appropriate for the more casual audience.

Now, the starting point is much easier. Naxx content is well-tuned for what it should be, a longer instance with a lot of varied encounters that acts as a starting point for many groups. What I think they dropped the ball on is the ease of Archavon and Sartharion. It's damn near impossible to wipe on those bosses after you've tried them once. The abilities are overly simplistic, and the encounters themselves are very bland. Now, Sarth does have a difficulty increase with the drakes, so I give them credit for that, but that doesn't mean the regular version should be simpler than Onyxia.

[Modern Angel]

Given that I've seen Archavon pugs inexplicably hit the enrage timer I would caution against overestimating the intelligence of the bulk of WoW players. The gorgeous thing is going to be the shrieking involved as the game slowly ramps up in difficulty each content patch and those pugs start trying Arthas after a Sartharion wipe.

[Fabricated]

After doing Sarth once with Paelos I'm itching to do it with at least one drake up. After everyone knows how to "not stand in the fire™" a semi-competent raid group shouldn't have much trouble.

[SurfD]

After doing Sarth once with Paelos I'm itching to do it with at least one drake up. After everyone knows how to "not stand in the fire™" a semi-competent raid group shouldn't have much trouble.

My new guild is "fairly competent", and we can reliably clear Naxx 10, Vault 10 / 25, and Sarth 10 / 25.  We, unfortunately, have a number of people who for the life of them cant seem to grasp 25 man Thaddeus, so he is our Naxx 25 roadblock.  Also, we havent really spent much time on Malygos, but we can reliably get him to stage 3.

A lot of the 10 man stuff is pretty damn easy, especially if your players are at least geared in level 80 / heroic dungeon blues.  Heck, i got the 8 man Sartharion achievement a week or two ago, without even really trying.

I think the only really hard stuff in the game at the moment is multi drake Sarth, or specific achievements in Naxx (like the less then full group ones and such)

[Ratman_tf]

We got that Grobbulous fart monster down tonight. After clearing spider and... another wing. I forget which. I just heal their asses.

Gonna try and clear 10 man Naxx tomorow when we continue.

[Montague]

Just started doing heroics this weekend. We were able to do some of the easier ones, had some problems with The Oculus and Utgarde Pinnacle. We got cheesed by Ymiron's transitiion as his orb didnt despawn and mowed into us while we were stunned. We wiped with Ymiron at 18k health 

Once we get our healers geared up we'll start trying Sarth.

[Nonentity]

I've done everything there is to offer (10 and 25 man), sans the drakes-up versions.

Sadly, we usually have to pug people on Sarth runs, so drakes up is never really an option. With good players, I don't see 1 drake being all that hard.

[kildorn]

We got that Grobbulous fart monster down tonight. After clearing spider and... another wing. I forget which. I just heal their asses.

Gonna try and clear 10 man Naxx tomorow when we continue.

Man, going through some instances as DPS gives you so much more room to sightsee and admire the artwork.

[Ironwood]

Fuck, play as a tank and all you see is crotch.

Crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch.

"Hey, Ragnoros is cool !"  Crotch
"Wow the Curator is awesome" Crotch
"Man, That Boss that we just fought who has a model that's twice the size of the tank is great!"  Fucking Crotch.

Hell, even the Maiden isn't fun.  Skirt Crotch.

[Ingmar]

Fuck, play as a tank and all you see is crotch.

Crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch.

"Hey, Ragnoros is cool !"  Crotch
"Wow the Curator is awesome" Crotch
"Man, That Boss that we just fought who has a model that's twice the size of the tank is great!"  Fucking Crotch.

Hell, even the Maiden isn't fun.  Skirt Crotch.

Ain't it the truth.

Our guild raids in tandem with another guild - we don't really have a full roster on our own, and we're still waiting on a lot of the other people to hit 80, plus a few of our own stragglers. I am hopeful we can start Naxx next week, but I don't know where people are on stuff like their head enchants. 

[kildorn]

Fuck, play as a tank and all you see is crotch.

Crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch.

"Hey, Ragnoros is cool !"  Crotch
"Wow the Curator is awesome" Crotch
"Man, That Boss that we just fought who has a model that's twice the size of the tank is great!"  Fucking Crotch.

Hell, even the Maiden isn't fun.  Skirt Crotch.

Ain't it the truth.

Our guild raids in tandem with another guild - we don't really have a full roster on our own, and we're still waiting on a lot of the other people to hit 80, plus a few of our own stragglers. I am hopeful we can start Naxx next week, but I don't know where people are on stuff like their head enchants. 

Head enchants? Fuck that, I'm showing up with WG enchants like the cheap bastard I am!

Especially since I can't tabbard my way to hodir!

[SurfD]

Fuck, play as a tank and all you see is crotch.

Crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch.

"Hey, Ragnoros is cool !"  Crotch
"Wow the Curator is awesome" Crotch
"Man, That Boss that we just fought who has a model that's twice the size of the tank is great!"  Fucking Crotch.

Hell, even the Maiden isn't fun.  Skirt Crotch.

Or the joys of tanking a boss that has any kind of knockback as a druid, where you are backed into a wall staring at Bear Ass....

[Nonentity]

At least they're redoing the animal forms to the quality of the Flight Form/Raven Lord mount quality.

[SurfD]

Yeah, that change cant some soon enough.  I am always reminded of those "here is a screenshot of my feral druid in his leet Tx raiding gear", followed by 40 posts of "and here is my bear in this other set" with screenshots of identical Bears in various locations.

[Fordel]

At least they're redoing the animal forms to the quality of the Flight Form/Raven Lord mount quality.

Soon


I don't know how to make the little TM symbol :(


-fake edit-
I  that thread on the druid forums. "Hay guyz check out my awesome new armor *bear*"

[K9]

We spent 15mins killing Loatheb tonight 

[Lakov_Sanite]

We spent 15mins killing Loatheb tonight 

I saw a video of a paladin/warrior 2manning him. i think the fight took 35minutes.

[Sjofn]

Fuck, play as a tank and all you see is crotch.

Crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch, crotch.

"Hey, Ragnoros is cool !"  Crotch
"Wow the Curator is awesome" Crotch
"Man, That Boss that we just fought who has a model that's twice the size of the tank is great!"  Fucking Crotch.

Hell, even the Maiden isn't fun.  Skirt Crotch.

Unless you're a bear tank, then all you see is bear ass. ><


EDIT: ONE DAY I will learn to read the WHOLE THREAD before talking. :(

[Fabricated]

We spent 15mins killing Loatheb tonight 

My guild is currently hitting 10-man Naxx with 3 healers since we did that with Kara and ZA when we were learning the place. Welp, we had no mage and the only druid was feral when we got to Noth, so we ended up with 4 healers since the druid just had to get into their resto-set and back up the other healers.

Took. Fucking. Forever.

Then we decided we'd rather do Patchwerk instead of Heigan and with 3 healers we destroyed Patchwerk with plenty of time to spare. Our DPS is 90% in blues and all of them put out about 2900 DPS, with me and the other prot warrior putting out like 1100. If you like some big numbers that's your fight.