WOTLK raid progression.

[Draegan]

I OT'd vault10/25 last night.  Was fun, quick and easy.

But fucking Loken and the RNG since he won't drop his trinket for me.  God damn running useless HOL on regular over and over and over.

[Dewdrop]

I OT'd vault10/25 last night.  Was fun, quick and easy.

But fucking Loken and the RNG since he won't drop his trinket for me.  God damn running useless HOL on regular over and over and over.

I feel your pain.. At this point I'm just holding out for the epic Def trinket off Thaddius in 10 man Naxx  I cant even GET groups to do normal HOL at this point. People look at me like I'm smoking crack in church while fucking a nun..

[Draegan]

I can get regHOL runs real easy.  It's just boring and fustrating especially since I end up with level 76-79 people all the time.  At least I get rep with a tabard.

[Montague]

I can get regHOL runs real easy.  It's just boring and fustrating especially since I end up with level 76-79 people all the time.  At least I get rep with a tabard.

Our MT said fuck it and soloed Shadow Labs for the Adamantine Figurine. I think we've run HoL 10 times, probably more.

Why there are so many haste trinkets that nobody wants but no +defense trinkets is beyond me.

[Chimpy]

While the basic raid content right now is all pretty easy in comparision to anything previously released, the addition of achievements for doing things a certain way or with less people have added some of the challenge back in for the bleeding edge kind of guilds.

Sarth + 3 drakes is fucking nigh impossible in 10 man right now, and it is very damn hard in 25. We spend 3.5 hours trying it with all 3 drakes up last night (25) and we were really not even close, though we are able to handle doing +2 just fine (though that is by no means easy either).

Also, the Malygos in under 5 minutes thing is way hard as well.

[Draegan]

I can get regHOL runs real easy.  It's just boring and fustrating especially since I end up with level 76-79 people all the time.  At least I get rep with a tabard.

Our MT said fuck it and soloed Shadow Labs for the Adamantine Figurine. I think we've run HoL 10 times, probably more.

Why there are so many haste trinkets that nobody wants but no +defense trinkets is beyond me.

I was thinking about doing that as well. 

[Ratman_tf]

Last night was our 25 man Naxx. (And my birthday!  )
We've already cleared the Spider wing on heroic so we went for the Horsemen.

Instructor Rasuvious on the second try. MC is kinda borked right now, so we had to be careful with things that might break it.

Gothik the Harvester on try four. Very difficult to figure out just how many and of what type to put on each "side". Not a pretty end, but we did it.

Four Horsemen on try four. Again, group makeup of the mini-groups was difficult. Had maybe 9 people left standing for Lady Blammo in the end, and got her down.

A very nice trinket (Adds like 111 SP and a chance to hit the target of direct heals with an extra HOT) dropped from Gothik, but I got outbid.

10 man Naxx is really handy for learning the fights before taking it to Heroic. Our offtank runs the 10 man pickups on "non-raid" nights.

[Azaroth]

I hear there's a new raid coming out relatively soon.

Frankly I have mixed feelings about it.

I've got my gear and my only upgrades are in Naxx 25 and Malygos 25. I can basically attend raids as I choose. Since I ignore PvP this time around and have no use for achievements, I'm left in a RELATIVELY healthy place with my WoW addiction. I log on to raid or to pewpew the hell out of a couple heroics for my girlfriend, and that's that.

As interesting as the prospect of a new raid is, I just don't know if I can face the impending doom of constant content addition that follows. It feels like a fucking hamster wheel every time. BUT YOU CAN'T QUIT, BECAUSE THEN YOU SUCK ASS WHEN YOU COME BACK AND ARE UNDERGEARED! MMMMWHARLGARLGARLL!!

Oh shit. I think I just incinerated my account with my MIND.

[Merusk]

I wish my guild could find a 3rd healer.  We fail on things we've already killed because 2 druids as the only healers on 10-man Mex is HARD and makes fucking Le.. whatisit, the guy with the necrotic aura, impossible.

As such we've killed spider wing twice failed many times on plague wing and done bits of construct.  We're failing hard and it's not tanking or DPS, it's sheer lack of healing and coordination.  /sigh.

I should level up my priest but I hate healing, and love the DK.  LOVE IT, but there's so damn many out there I have no chance at Pugging 25s.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I hate you all out of jealousy.

[K9]

Gotta say, Loatheb as a holy priest is cake. PoH + CoH,CoH every 17s > the damage.

That said, I don't get why you're having difficulty on Maexxena. Hot's are win there during web wrap.

The fight we struggle on is Heigan, because running is hard.

[Dewdrop]

Did the Twilight Zone Achievement (all three drakes up on Sartharion) last night and I have to say it was BY FAR the most fun fight I have ever done in WoW. First time since a LONG time ago I get an actual sense of achievement out of something in this game. Its not that its 'hard' but there are alot of moving parts and there are alot of times when stuff can go dramatically wrong.

Close on Malygos 5min achievement too. 5min 9 seconds is our best so far, should be going down soon.

[Gobbeldygook]

I wish my guild could find a 3rd healer.  We fail on things we've already killed because 2 druids as the only healers on 10-man Mex is HARD and makes fucking Le.. whatisit, the guy with the necrotic aura, impossible.

There is no reason loatheb would be hard with two druids as long as they're precasting (biyotch).  Note that failing on loatheb 'because of healers' can very much actually be caused by DPS who can't kill him fast enough, ie aren't coordinated about the spores.

Now, if they're letting the tanks die on patchwerk, it's time to bust out the booterang.

[Azaroth]

Gotta say, Loatheb as a holy priest is cake. PoH + CoH,CoH every 17s > the damage.

That said, I don't get why you're having difficulty on Maexxena. Hot's are win there during web wrap.

The fight we struggle on is Heigan, because running is hard.

lol @ heigan wipes

Because they're hilarious.

.. but should never happen. Rofl.

[Merusk]

Well, part of it is an undergeared healer (at least I think 1500 is undergeared, I just don't  know anymore)  combined with an inconsistent raid base.  

We've got enough people (well, not healers) to field a 25-man team IF everyone logged-on consistently.  However, since we're all couples or married w/ unplaying spouses and parents with 'real jobs'.  I'm one of the 3 most 'hardcore' players of the group and I only do 10-20h on a "hardcore" week anymore, so I'm sure you can imagine how consistent our groups are.  There's only 2 or 3 unmarried and there were no Teens/ College kids in the guild until this week when a long-gone friend of MC/ BWL days came back to play.  Say what you will about stereotypes, but the younger kids pick-up stuff a lot quicker and are more focused.  Wipe recovery shouldn't take 15 mins, but it does.

Sooo.. we get a lot of folks in and out week to week.  Things take a while to learn and the ranged dps assigned on web wrap isn't always on top of things.  Should be really easy, right? Always on the west wall, big struggling white thing, but the Hunter or Lock always says "ping so I know where you are" and then they run to near melee range to break the person out.  Fuck, I've done it faster as a DK running from Maex to the person when I notice how consistently shitty the person assigned is doing.   If one of the healers gets web-wrapped, it's almost always game over.  

I'm about to give up entirely, since the RL is now convinced we just can't do Naxx at all without 3 healers and we have a hard time just fielding two regularly.  Blah!

We did Heigan for my first time last weekend.  He was fun, and after the first attempt I learned exactly where to stand and how fast to run.  Not terribly hard, just tedious.   We learned that you only need one dps, one healer and one tank to live and win the fight in 10-man.  Sure, it took 15 mins but he died.

I wish my guild could find a 3rd healer.  We fail on things we've already killed because 2 druids as the only healers on 10-man Mex is HARD and makes fucking Le.. whatisit, the guy with the necrotic aura, impossible.

There is no reason loatheb would be hard with two druids as long as they're precasting (biyotch).  Note that failing on loatheb 'because of healers' can very much actually be caused by DPS who can't kill him fast enough, ie aren't coordinated about the spores.

Now, if they're letting the tanks die on patchwerk, it's time to bust out the booterang.

The tank lives, but the offtank dies on hateful strikes within 1 min with the 2 druids. Priest or Pally in the mix, we can do it with 2 healers easy.  I don't get it other than I know one of them was forced to heal and isn't happy and probably not concentrating on it.  I'd yell a lot but being as it's my wife I'd rather not have a family argument over a video game. 

[Selby]

Biggest problem with druid healing is if they aren't geared or spec'd for it.  I have healing gear but don't usually switch specs for it, so if I *have* to heal, it is usually not a good thing.  My main heal only gets around 2500-3000 health nomally, which on a tank with 20-25k HP that is taking a beating, it drains the mana pool VERY quickly.  HoTs help, but you can still have serious problems if the damage taken is faster than you can heal it for.

[Paelos]

Having two druids healing as your primaries probably conflicts with a lot of other buffs you should have in a 10 man raid. For one, it's likely you don't have a priest in that group (unless you have a shadow, which at this point should consider switching) so you're already out a fort buff right off the bat. Right there, your entire group is operating without a 1650 health boost, which is especially huge for keeping everyone alive on heavier raid damage fights. Also, circle of healing is just ungodly right now, and druids simply can't raid heal like they can, plus they can get crit heals around 13k.

Selby is also right about the druids gear issue. Many of them want to be doing something else besides healing as a primary, so their gear can be iffy at best. Having one as a 3rd healer with average gear is fine because they can really help out with a lot of hots. Relying on them as your main healers is something else entirely. The short answer is that if you got a priest, you'd be fine, but having 3 healers (we use priest, priest, shaman, although i'd love priest, druid, shaman) is my favored setup for Naxx 10.

[Merusk]

Yeah, this I know, but hey we're not as raid focused as some (like the RL) like to think.  If we were we'd just pick up any random asshat priest, knowing they were using us for gear and going to drop and pick up a more hardcore guild after they got what they wanted.  Which is tricky anyway since there's so damn few healers anymore. All the ones we knew rerolled a DPS'er or a DK and refuse to go back.

Saying "just add a priest" isn't as easy a solution as it seems when you have ONE in the guild who's willing to heal and only level 74 because she's a newlywed (and hot ) so she and the husband are more interested in things OTHER than playing WoW.  So instead I vent. 

[Sjofn]

Which is tricky anyway since there's so damn few healers anymore. All the ones we knew rerolled a DPS'er or a DK and refuse to go back.

Guilty as charged. 

My DK is a tank, although I wind up mostly DPSing since we're still just kicking around heroics and Ingmar is a GIANT MAIN TANK HOG. I'll level up my healer eventually, but it really is such a relief not having to be the one that HAS to go or else everyone sits around bored instead of instancing.

[Paelos]

Which is tricky anyway since there's so damn few healers anymore. All the ones we knew rerolled a DPS'er or a DK and refuse to go back.

Guilty as charged. 

My DK is a tank, although I wind up mostly DPSing since we're still just kicking around heroics and Ingmar is a GIANT MAIN TANK HOG. I'll level up my healer eventually, but it really is such a relief not having to be the one that HAS to go or else everyone sits around bored instead of instancing.

I think that the healers will come back eventually as well, mostly because people are going to eventually get bored of the smaller content, even at a glacial pace. It may be June, but I think that releases of higher content beyond Malygos in the coming months and Blizzard (supposedly) looking at why the healing classes are so far out of numerical balance, we could see some number shifts. Or, if we don't, Blizzard could see some dropping subs due to raid stagnation and boredom and they will be forced to look into the healing issue of it not being as fun as tanking or DPS.

[Azaroth]

I have an incredible healing set by default. A lot of the time, I'm the only Paladin in our raids. Meaning that I actually get more plate, and often mail, healing gear than I do Ret DPS gear. Just because it'd be disenchanted otherwise.

One would be tempted to say "PUT IN DUAL SPECS SO WE CAN MAKE GROUPS AGAIN", and I would be one of the most obvious candidates to make something like that work. But honestly... healing is stupid, and I don't do it unless I'm absolutely forced (especially on a Paladin  ). Quick and easy way to change my spec or not, I want to DPS because it's way more fun. And I don't want to get known as the one who will switch to heals. Because then, guess what? You're a fucking healer.

[Ratman_tf]

This is officially my last attempt at Heroic Anub'arak today! 

I know it's one of the more difficult heroics, but trying to keep the main tank up, party heal, and cleanse poison all at the same time (With my very good guildmaster and raid leader backseat healing  ) is just... not... possible.

[Azaroth]

Take a Ret Paladin.

His job is to Repentance the first Veromancer, and fear the second. Everyone else has the job of not breaking that CC until everything else is dead.

Run out of range of pound, don't get hit by spikes.

After that's all down, you have a cake boss.

[Ratman_tf]

Take a Ret Paladin.

His job is to Repentance the first Veromancer, and fear the second. Everyone else has the job of not breaking that CC until everything else is dead.

Run out of range of pound, don't get hit by spikes.

After that's all down, you have a cake boss.

We didn't have a ret paladin that time. I think I'm just gonna sit out AN runs, and let someone else heal that shit. We were on a Heroic run today and got lots of other shit done.

[Ingmar]

Do you have any shaman dpsers? Poison cleansing totem will more or less solve your problems too I suspect.

[K9]

Anub'arak heroic can be tricky. I have to berate my DPS to nuke venomancers, because as a priest I can't do much about poisons except heal through them, and the volley from 2 venomancers is more damage than spamming PoH cah neal for.

What type of healer are you by the way?

[Azaroth]

Do you have any shaman dpsers? Poison cleansing totem will more or less solve your problems too I suspect.

Oh, sure. That's the easy way.

[Trouble]

Hi, I'm in one of those poopsock guilds. There's not actually much poopsock to it though. At the most, we raid 5 nights a week, 4 hours a night and that's for short stints. Usually it goes back down to 2-3 days pretty quickly. We cleared all the basic raid content the first week the expansion came out (I admit a lot of people in the guild DID poopsock the leveling portion and I almost mean that literally). Everyone in the guild had leveled to 80 on the beta and we had beaten all the content on beta already so it wasn't really a huge accomplish. Our reward for this was getting highly ranked on wowprogress.com and getting all three Realm First Feats of Strength (on top of catching realm first 80, 8 of 10 class first 80's, and all horde races to 80, as well as US first Tauren, Warrior, and Troll).

After completing the basic content we went and started working on Sartharion with 3 drakes up, the strategy of which was unknown at the time so it counted as true progression content for us. It took about 3 nights of work. We finished that at the beginning of December and have been in sort of a lull since then, raiding on a few nights a week. We put a couple nights into 10 man Sarth with 3 drakes up and got that with one of our groups. Weren't able to do it with the second group though sadly.

We've been working towards Heroic: Glory of the Raider and are down to the 5 minute Malygos which we should get next Wednesday. The Immortal is by far the hardest of the achievements, much harder than Malygos 5 minutes. Doing every boss in Naxx with no deaths is certainly a hair raising experience, but we managed to do it a few weeks ago. Malygos 5 minutes just relies on a pretty specific group composition and a specific strategy and it's pretty easy once you get it down. The trick though is you get him to 1 health during phase 1 after he takes off (he can't die in the air). If you overshoot the 5 minutes by a little and someone gets too fire happy with their dragon in phase 3 you'll accidentally kill him and lose your chance for the week. This happened to us the week before Christmas and we haven't had the group comp since then to do it (requires 4 druids and at least 2 deathknights).

Oh and hey, check out my poopsock blog: http://www.tardfactor.com

[Paelos]

<Bullshit>

Thanks for the completely unrelated e-peen comment coupled with the blog inclusion.

[Trouble]

It's related! The topic was "what are you raiding?".

[Paelos]

It's related! The topic was "what are you raiding?".

Touche, but the blog inclusion was over the top. I reacted to that mostly. That, and I just essentially pugged an entire wing of 25 man Naxx with drunken folks. That place is a joke. I've gone to the dark side in terms of the difficulty argument. If I can one shot bosses on the very first try, with very little knowledge beyond the 10 man idea, with five healers...yeah.

[Ratman_tf]

Anub'arak heroic can be tricky. I have to berate my DPS to nuke venomancers, because as a priest I can't do much about poisons except heal through them, and the volley from 2 venomancers is more damage than spamming PoH cah neal for.

What type of healer are you by the way?

Paladin. 

I got a bit upset when my guild leader started telling me how to heal... after raiding with him for months in BC and now Wrath. That and we were using zero crowd control and just trying to tank n' spank through the entrance monsters. 

[SurfD]

Anub'arak heroic can be tricky. I have to berate my DPS to nuke venomancers, because as a priest I can't do much about poisons except heal through them, and the volley from 2 venomancers is more damage than spamming PoH cah neal for.

What type of healer are you by the way?

Paladin. 

I got a bit upset when my guild leader started telling me how to heal... after raiding with him for months in BC and now Wrath. That and we were using zero crowd control and just trying to tank n' spank through the entrance monsters. 

hehe, whenever i need to go into that hell hole, we do it the good old "kite the adds way".

Have your tank, heals and 2 dps hug the wall, and move around the corner to the right into the room.
Have someone who can grab a lot of aggro, and move fast, grab ALL of the adds on the first boss, and just run back up the path to the zone in portal. A mage (Blizzard + blink + iceblock at the end), Hunter (Volley, Fire or frost traps, FD at the end), etc.

As soon as the adds are off after the decoy, the tank grabs the main boss, and the rest of the party dogpiles onto him.  He should die before the adds manage to run all the way up and then come back down.  Collect the achievement, wipe to the swarm, run back and finish the rest of your easy ass instance for 3 badges in like 15 minutes or less.

[Sjofn]

Paladin healing straight up makes me angry these days. If I level one of my healers, it'll be my priest. And she will be disc. And my guild will LIKE IT.

[Hawkbit]

We're a casual raiding guild and we're short about five people for the 25s so we're always pulling in non-guildies for it.  It's been mostly positive so far, but we're not finding other people to fill our ranks as we'd like. 

We've got guild and pug completions for all 10man content, although I personally have yet to see Malygos.  In 25s, we've got Archavon, 9 of 15 Naxx bosses and Sarth with no drakes on our kill sheet. 

I think we're doing great, but the lack of a few key players is hurting us. 

[Tannhauser]

My Mage is done raiding.  Went to 10 man Naxx the other nite and we couldn't kill bosses.  My GM spoke very nicely to us, saying that we need to really need to study up on the game, l2p etc.  Screw that.  I'm addicted enough, I'm not going full catass.  Plus raiding is just not fun for me.  It feels so much like work.  I work hard enough in RL.

More power to those folks who like raiding.   Maybe I'll try again once my Priest hits 80.