The Second MMO

[Lantyssa]

Actually that wasn't what I was saying at all.  Rather than explain what I considered to be a straightforward post I will simply say read it over one more time for some clarity.

The WoW of today is what it is because it learned from the WoW of yesterday.  Those other games didn't.  So it's true the environment isn't the same, but so far they're the only ones who have grasped that.  Because they understand that, why would they be releasing WoW 1.0?

Sure timing matters.  Happy accidents happen.  Services which understand that timing do even better.  Blizzard surprised themselves with the initial popularity, but their strategy was, and for the time being still is, solid.

[UnSub]

If CCP remakes EVE but with vampires, they will get more than 200k players. Single server, fighting werewolves and drinking blood off humans, trade and politics, large scale battles, etc.

There is no green here.

[Aez]

If CCP remakes EVE but with vampires, they will get more than 200k players. Single server, fighting werewolves and drinking blood off humans, trade and politics, large scale battles, etc.

There is no green here.

Any actual news on that?  Do we know for sure that they are working on it?

[schild]

If CCP remakes EVE but with vampires, they will get more than 200k players. Single server, fighting werewolves and drinking blood off humans, trade and politics, large scale battles, etc.

There is no green here.

Any actual news on that?  Do we know for sure that they are working on it?

They're still trying to figure out how to make avatars walk. It's very complex shit, yo.

[Numtini]

If CCP remakes EVE but with vampires, they will get more than 200k players. Single server, fighting werewolves and drinking blood off humans, trade and politics, large scale battles, etc.

The problem is scale, it's easy to grind out new star systems--select what set of stock art you want, what and where the assets are, and you're done. The issue I see for any sort of "Eve on earth" type of thing is the art assets required. What makes Eve's PVP palatable is the size of each system and the vast number of them. It's so large that you have room to play without some griefer PKing you every time you set foot out of town. I don't see how it's possible to create that vastness in a more mainstream 3d type of game.

[Righ]

If CCP remakes EVE but with vampires, they will get more than 200k players. Single server, fighting werewolves and drinking blood off humans, trade and politics, large scale battles, etc.

There is no green here.

Any actual news on that?  Do we know for sure that they are working on it?

They're still trying to figure out how to make avatars walk. It's very complex shit, yo.

You just turn into a bat and fly like a spaceship. But. Even. More. Slowly.

[ashrik]

Actually that wasn't what I was saying at all.  Rather than explain what I considered to be a straightforward post I will simply say read it over one more time for some clarity.

You weren't saying that WoTLK WoW would smash WoW 1.0? Maybe my critical thinking (or just plain reading) skills are not nearly as developed as I had hoped

For the subject at hand: in order for CCP (or nearly any company) to create enough landmass to rival the vastness of EVE space, wouldn't it be necessary for them to use some kind of automatic terrain creation algorithm? Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here, but I think some old games used to do something similar. I would probably play Vampire Politics: Online, but only because I'm a junkie and need my fix

[Venkman]

You guys are assuming a uniserver full of zoned-based land control wars fought by vampires?

[Mrbloodworth]

You guys are assuming a uniserver full of zoned-based land control wars fought by vampires?

I'm not. The vampire setting is going to be a bitch and a half to implement into MMOG form. I fully expect Typical MMO template here.

[mnm]

Why? THe overall design of Eve is unconventional compared to other MMOs. Even the UI and past iterations of it are unconventional.

[Goumindong]

You weren't saying that WoTLK WoW would smash WoW 1.0? Maybe my critical thinking (or just plain reading) skills are not nearly as developed as I had hoped

He was saying that if yesterday WoW did not exist and you released WOTLK WoW today you would do well against the current crop of MMOs out there(or bad, i don't recall which)

[Mrbloodworth]

Why? THe overall design of Eve is unconventional compared to other MMOs. Even the UI and past iterations of it are unconventional.

Your talking about a space game.

[eldaec]

You guys are assuming a uniserver full of zoned-based land control wars fought by vampires?

I'm not. The vampire setting is going to be a bitch and a half to implement into MMOG form. I fully expect Typical MMO template here.

Personally, I suspect it'll be more like UO.

EVE is closest we ever got to UO2. There is no reason UO couldn't work a second time in a fantasy setting, even if it did have EVE's unconventional skill system.

[Senses]

Also it doesn't hurt that Blizzard can afford to actually advertise their product.  I'm completely done with WoW but everytime I see the Ozzy Osborne commercial I get that slight tingle to maybe just maybe check it out one more time.

[Aez]

Anyone nerdy and dedicated enough to resume the most common facts and opinions about WoW/Blizzard in a bullet point format?  I'd like cut and paste it every time a thread degenerate on the future of WoW and it's eventual killer with a touch of Blizzard's design philosophy and willingness to polish their games before release.

[tazelbain]

Finally the true sucsessor to M59!

What this thing has been in stealth for 2 and years? It's anybody guess what it is but I can hope they do something revolutionary.  And no that doesn't include anything related to UO.

But since we are taking WAGs... My experience with WoD is mostly the vampire card game were vampires not only represent an emo bloodsuckers but also their economic and political interests.  So I would set up an economic simulation with a heavy emphasis on corporations (that aren't guilds, have real accountability) and less emphasis moving stuff around. The political simulation is where players via to climb the hierarchy in their society.  Both of these activities are center Locations ie City of Chicago and further divided by the various societies (Mage, Vampire etc.).  The different skills give you advantages in economic and political pvp.  A physical level your powers would be mainly to pve missions/storylines, roleplaying  and, when politics break down, open combat.

[Venkman]

Anyone nerdy and dedicated enough to resume the most common facts and opinions about WoW/Blizzard in a bullet point format?  I'd like cut and paste it every time a thread degenerate on the future of WoW and it's eventual killer with a touch of Blizzard's design philosophy and willingness to polish their games before release.

Off the top of my head, so I may have missed some:

• Gamer-relevant longtime game IP.
• Gamer-relevant developer name recognition (doesn't matter which Blizzard it was to the B.net folks), backed by a huge ass publishing parent company.
• Biggest game development budget to date.
• Long development cycle with a solid 25-30% of it spent iterating a playable game.
• Innovated off of a proven popular style of MMO.
• Almost entirely content-complete at launch (I felt Trolls were week though...)
• Staggered release into more markets in 2005 than most other MMOs ever hit in their lifetimes, resulting in rolling "records broken" press releases that continued to drive game awareness.

[Ubvman]

• Gamer-relevant longtime game IP.
• Gamer-relevant developer name recognition (doesn't matter which Blizzard it was to the B.net folks), backed by a huge ass publishing parent company.
• Biggest game development budget to date.
• Long development cycle with a solid 25-30% of it spent iterating a playable game.
• Innovated off of a proven popular style of MMO.
• Almost entirely content-complete at launch (I felt Trolls were week though...)
• Staggered release into more markets in 2005 than most other MMOs ever hit in their lifetimes, resulting in rolling "records broken" press releases that continued to drive game awareness.

* A pronounced absence of a publicity hungry egoistical dev / producer claiming credit for all of the above.

So called "Game Gods" on an MMOG would virtually guarantee over-hype of the first system AND a disappointing follow-up in the second.

[schild]

Pffft. Blizz is as publicity hungry and egotistical as any other dev. They look down on you from high on an ivory tower and laugh at you 362 days out of the year. The other 3 days, they invite you to a convention to eat cake.

Biggest game development budget to date.

You don't think Tabula Rasa ended up costing as much if not more?

[Falwell]

Pffft. Blizz is as publicity hungry and egotistical as any other dev. They look down on you from high on an ivory tower and laugh at you 362 days out of the year. The other 3 days, they invite you to a convention to eat cake.

Biggest game development budget to date.

You don't think Tabula Rasa ended up costing as much if not more?

Vanguard was pretty damn high on the cash burn-o-meter also.

[UnSub]

Anyone nerdy and dedicated enough to resume the most common facts and opinions about WoW/Blizzard in a bullet point format?  I'd like cut and paste it every time a thread degenerate on the future of WoW and it's eventual killer with a touch of Blizzard's design philosophy and willingness to polish their games before release.

Off the top of my head, so I may have missed some:

• Gamer-relevant longtime game IP.
• Gamer-relevant developer name recognition (doesn't matter which Blizzard it was to the B.net folks), backed by a huge ass publishing parent company.
• Biggest game development budget to date.
• Long development cycle with a solid 25-30% of it spent iterating a playable game.
• Innovated off of a proven popular style of MMO.
• Almost entirely content-complete at launch (I felt Trolls were week though...)
• Staggered release into more markets in 2005 than most other MMOs ever hit in their lifetimes, resulting in rolling "records broken" press releases that continued to drive game awareness.

 - Low barriers to entry i.e. low comp specs needed to play, easy to pick up and play even with little MMO experience.
 - Positive word-of-mouth that snowballed in attracting more players, even those who hadn't played MMOs before.

[Draegan]

Isn't it time for a Chuck Norris joke?

[Venkman]

Pffft. Blizz is as publicity hungry and egotistical as any other dev. They look down on you from high on an ivory tower and laugh at you 362 days out of the year. The other 3 days, they invite you to a convention to eat cake.

Biggest game development budget to date.

You don't think Tabula Rasa ended up costing as much if not more?

That money only went to ONE game according to their Finance team.