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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Recruiter told not to hire WoW players 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Recruiter told not to hire WoW players  (Read 488441 times)
Venkman
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Reply #315 on: December 20, 2008, 06:07:17 PM

The VG stuff was a very niche audience. Exposing the lunacy of what amounts to an everyman article though, that's gotta be something. Even if it's just a slap in the face by the very community for which WoW was created, that's going to embarrass some people. Maybe not enough to change anything, but it'd be fun to write and publish.
schild
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Reply #316 on: December 20, 2008, 06:15:56 PM

Edit to add: Schild, I know you can do something with this. This is the best indictment of "journalism" we've seen in a while, particularly since it's so benign and the truth so obvious. This would beat out the Vanguard story fer sure!

Filed under "Things not worth the effort."

Edit: To add, it's not worth the effort because it's so plainly out there. Anyone could find it if they actually like linked to the forums and read this thread. It's not exactly an "indictment" so much as further proof that journalism is dead. Yay to them though. They win.
Samprimary
Contributor
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Reply #317 on: December 20, 2008, 10:15:08 PM

at least lets collect a saved image of the iterations that this story went through.
Tale
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Reply #318 on: December 21, 2008, 12:38:30 AM

I stumbled on another example of "telephone". I'm thinking about buying a Samsung NC10 netbook and wondered if a new version might be due soon, so I searched for NC11 and NC20.

Ubergizmo says: "The 160GB hard drive on the NC10 has also been "downgraded" to just 120GB on the NC11. What gives, Samsung? Are you guys missing the plot? Progress is supposed to come with new models, and not the other way around! Something tells me the 2010 Samsung NC20 will be powered by a 486DX2 66MHz with 8MB RAM, and will run Windows 3.11."

HaloTEKNO steals this as: "there will also Samsung NC20 which is targeted release in 2010 that will be powered by a 486DX2 66MHz with 8MB RAM, and will run Windows 3.11. So have to wait is it true or just only a rumor, if i know the answer, i will tell you in next article."

smiley
Tale
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Reply #319 on: December 21, 2008, 12:49:39 AM

at least lets collect a saved image of the iterations that this story went through.

My new life as a famous games designer is going great. I think that journalist guy Raph will be out on his bicycle now. Can I play you a song about a unicorn?
Fabricated
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Reply #320 on: December 21, 2008, 09:55:50 AM

I'm waiting for a new PA comic myself. That'd be the icing on the cake.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Glazius
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Posts: 755


Reply #321 on: December 21, 2008, 01:18:15 PM

I stumbled on another example of "telephone". I'm thinking about buying a Samsung NC10 netbook and wondered if a new version might be due soon, so I searched for NC11 and NC20.

Ubergizmo says: "The 160GB hard drive on the NC10 has also been "downgraded" to just 120GB on the NC11. What gives, Samsung? Are you guys missing the plot? Progress is supposed to come with new models, and not the other way around! Something tells me the 2010 Samsung NC20 will be powered by a 486DX2 66MHz with 8MB RAM, and will run Windows 3.11."

HaloTEKNO steals this as: "there will also Samsung NC20 which is targeted release in 2010 that will be powered by a 486DX2 66MHz with 8MB RAM, and will run Windows 3.11. So have to wait is it true or just only a rumor, if i know the answer, i will tell you in next article."

smiley

Man, that's not telephone, that's a guided sarcasm missile. Ouch.
chargerrich
Terracotta Army
Posts: 342


Reply #322 on: December 22, 2008, 07:15:20 AM

There certainly is a place and a need in some professions to work 60+ hours a week. However most of the posters here are not in those industries. Doctors, Lawyers and Politicians (if you call politicing work) all probably "work" or are on call 60 hours a week.

But for the majority of us in a cube farm, office, IT shop, et al. working 60 hours a week as a salaried employee (read no OT) on anything but an emergency "once in a while to meet a deadline" is just stupid.

Those types of hours do not make you a hard worker, they make you (check all that apply):

1. gullable
2. bitter
3. underpaid
4. unhealthy

Now if I were an African wildlife photographer or the GM of the San Diego Chargers, then 60 hours would be a given and enjoyable. But since I do platform banking software... well.sigh. /facepalm
Edenfall
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Posts: 11


Reply #323 on: December 23, 2008, 06:17:24 AM

Not really. You're just priding yourself as an exception above the rule.

This does not change the rule.

Still proves there are exceptions. Not saying an employer would give a damn though.

There's exceptions for everything. I know heroin addicts who are still functional employees. It doesn't keep the fact from pretty much being that WoW play is something you can actionably screen for.

What employers are going to be (or already are) doing with this WoW discrimination is little different than when they disqualify GED earners or when they enforce mandatory pee/hair tests for marijuana use, or when they use psych questionnaires as part of the application process: it's a wide-cast discriminatory net that is attempting to thin the applicant pool through cheap and easy mass disqualification.

Actionable data like 'smokes pot' is stuff that they love. Even if you engage in recreational pot use that legitimately does not interfere with your ability to work as a data entry guy, a large company knows that on the macro level it's easier and more efficient to cast a blanket ban on that activity as an employee filter, due to the behavioral correlations to pot-smoking demographics and shit.

Something like 'plays WoW' is just going to end up as the latest dragnet data for a few industries due to MMO playing prevalence in some demographics, like young male tech professionals, because it is true that it is a negative attribute for potential employers that they can potentially benefit from screening out.

Exactly.

Rather interesting, that Heroin. If the police catch you with it, you're screwed. But if you've contacted someone in the public sector, asking for help to quit, you get a card saying "Heroin Addict". So then you show that to the cops next time they catch you with a needle in your arm, which makes them go like "aaaaaaaahhhh!" and walk away, *waving* wishing you the best of luck.

Next year you're back on your feet, and have a wonderful job. Just because the government decided to distribute the drug to addicts, which gave you time to do other things, besides gathering money for heroin.

This poses a somewhat paradox between heroin addicts and gamers, as to which is the better of two evils?
Difference here is between mind and matter. Actually, the only problem for heroin addicts (-receiving free heroin) is socializing with people, in case they would have come from a long time in a bad environment, when the problem of the gamer would be socializing in real-life at all (not always) and staying away from games at work.

I'd probably hire a heroin addict over a gamer, if the government gave him free heroin. Everybody have their evils.
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #324 on: December 23, 2008, 09:54:53 AM

It's possible to remain minimally functional on heroin for a long time. You can go to work every day, get your shit done, then come home and shoot up. It has a very different addiction profile than uppers like meth or cocaine. You can remain actively abusing the drug for years on end and retain a job to pay for it as well. You won't be good at any non-menial job for any length of time, and you certainly won't be useful off-hours or anything like that because you'll be doped to the gills, but it's very possible to maintain on heroin for years, before resistance builds up to a point where it's unsustainable financially. You can hide heroin abuse while meth/crack addicts are immediately obvious.

Of course that's all academic because I instantly fire anyone using anything but pot. Most memorably, I had one jackass doing speedballs in the bathroom. We didn't catch him for the drugs, though. After shooting up he felt compelled to masturbate to completion. Loudly.

Gaming is a behavioral compulsion akin to gambling or shopping while drugs create physical dependencies, and opiates are by far the worst, with the highest rates of recidivism as addicts literally never feel pleasure again once they get off the drug. Opiates are evil. Saying you'd rather hire a heroin addict than a gamer isn't clever, it just exposes your own lack of sophistication.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 09:59:47 AM by sam, an eggplant »
ghost
The Dentist
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Reply #325 on: December 23, 2008, 10:11:32 AM


I'd probably hire a heroin addict over a gamer, if the government gave him free heroin. Everybody have their evils.

This is fucking stupid.  I hope you aren't in charge of hiring people in what you do. 
Edenfall
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Reply #326 on: December 23, 2008, 01:36:45 PM

(...)
Saying you'd rather hire a heroin addict than a gamer isn't clever, it just exposes your own lack of sophistication.
Not rather, but probably. I was actually hoping people would think further, realizing that it wouldn't be the final factor for actual employment. Whether or not it is clever, is another thing. I always think twice of things, and that statement was based on the fact that I have worked with a current heroin-addict, and both seen and experienced the effects at a workplace.

Maybe I'll change my mind, or maybe I won't.
What I do know is that some gamers and some heroin-addicts do a good job, while some others don't. I'd say it relies more on the person, than the evil.




I'd probably hire a heroin addict over a gamer, if the government gave him free heroin. Everybody have their evils.

This is fucking stupid.  I hope you aren't in charge of hiring people in what you do. 
That I am not.

Your reaction to the statement indicates that you have worse thoughts about heroin-addicts than gamers, and weigh the heroin-addicts as the worse evil. That's a matter of opinion. And even if we had someone in this forum wanting to talk from experience with both cases, I am very certain the reality is that some do good while some others do worse.
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #327 on: December 23, 2008, 01:53:39 PM

I can speak to both cases from the management perspective. While I'm sure you could bring up the extremes of either, it's quite reasonable to label comparing opiates to videogames incredibly fucking stupid.
Lantyssa
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Reply #328 on: December 23, 2008, 02:24:02 PM

Unless their skills were such that they could perform regardless, I wouldn't be hiring any addicts.  Sure there are exceptions, but is an interview going to tell you enough about a person to let you know they buck the trends on addiction interfering with other aspects of their lives?

If it's not interfering, it's not so much an addiction as a vice.  If you have a small pool of applicants maybe you can dig down enough to figure it out.  If you've got tons, they're going in the trash first pass.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Edenfall
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Reply #329 on: December 23, 2008, 02:39:30 PM

I can speak to both cases from the management perspective. While I'm sure you could bring up the extremes of either, it's quite reasonable to label comparing opiates to videogames incredibly fucking stupid.
You say: necessarily. I say: Not necessarily. Clearly, we disagree. And by this, I reckon we have reached the end of our sub-discussion.

I'll keep in mind, what you said. And I hope you, not as a manager, but as a person keep in mind the two words: not necessarily. A manager should be cynical and generalize as much as possible. Surely, much unique competence will be left undiscovered, but that is the way of this world. Keeping distance from opiates and moderating gaming obsessions would be the answer to those whom the issue originated from.

&BTW: Merry Christmas =)
Cheddar
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Reply #330 on: December 23, 2008, 02:48:37 PM

This is getting silly.  Got 2 emails now from buddies quoting "news" articles about this.  Wow.

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Tale
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Reply #331 on: December 23, 2008, 07:19:52 PM

Even the New York Times gets it wrong, saying I was in a job interview and I mentioned games "with disastrous results": http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/world-of-warcraft-players-need-not-apply/
schild
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Reply #332 on: December 23, 2008, 07:23:11 PM

Interesting. Now it's time to edit the first post. Sorry Tale.
schild
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Reply #333 on: December 23, 2008, 07:25:05 PM

Also, I'm gonna bury it here, but I wanted the original edit to read: "Jenna Wortham must be SUPER hot because she can't read for shit." But I'm not feeling very sexist today. Catch me on a Thursday.
schild
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Reply #334 on: December 23, 2008, 07:42:25 PM

Hat trick!

I feel a lot better having done that.
Margalis
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Reply #335 on: December 23, 2008, 07:51:31 PM

At SE we don't hire anyone who playes FFXI. The game is a total time-sink and the last thing we want is people skipping work or coming in all tired because they spent all night fighting a boss for 18 hours straight. Except Red Mages. Their ability to multitask makes them extremely valuable employees.

I swear to god this is 100% true and I look forward to being quoted in the New York Times. Thanks in advance.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #336 on: December 23, 2008, 09:40:16 PM

But wouldn't it be awesome if it was true.  Like developers finally admit they are produceing skinner box bullshit that exploit adictive behavior instead of pretending they are making games.

"Me am play gods"
Ratman_tf
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Reply #337 on: December 23, 2008, 10:30:54 PM

Hat trick!

I feel a lot better having done that.

Coulda put goatsex in there. Maybe the next headline for the NYT could be "Reputable fact checking news site links to crazy porn meme!"



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Raph
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Title delayed while we "find the fun."


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Reply #338 on: December 23, 2008, 11:17:06 PM

What, I don't get edited into the first post? I thought I was the journalist who broke this story!  Ohhhhh, I see.

Even the NYT... sheesh.

I wonder if I can get THIS story BoingBoinged? Hmm...  awesome, for real
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #339 on: December 23, 2008, 11:17:45 PM

Oh. My. God.

Edit to the OP is unadulterated epic win.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
schild
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Reply #340 on: December 23, 2008, 11:22:45 PM

What, I don't get edited into the first post? I thought I was the journalist who broke this story!  Ohhhhh, I see.

Even the NYT... sheesh.

I wonder if I can get THIS story BoingBoinged? Hmm...  awesome, for real

We're not done.
Fordel
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Reply #341 on: December 24, 2008, 12:38:04 AM

I hear they have the internet on computers now!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Edenfall
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Reply #342 on: December 24, 2008, 12:50:16 AM

Just a little side-note: If you're going to tell, on a job interview, that you play or played World of Warcraft, don't tell them you played Alliance =D
Thanks to Massively for a priceless image, or maybe they stole that too (oh snap!)

DraconianOne
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Reply #343 on: December 24, 2008, 02:03:59 AM

Schildy - no mention of the Seattle PC Game Examiner? It was linked once - I think it's worth linking again because the guy writing the article even proudly proclaims his 15 years of professional freelance journalism experience and yet still gets the story so very and entirely wrong.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
schild
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Reply #344 on: December 24, 2008, 02:07:53 AM

Ah thanks, added.

Man, what a bunch of douchebags. The whole lot of them.
Tale
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Reply #345 on: December 24, 2008, 02:42:28 AM

The next wave is journalists quoting the New York Times.

For example, Techradar: "The New York Times is reporting that some employers are specifically excluding WoW players from vacancies. The paper quotes a recruiter saying, "There is a belief that WoW players cannot give 100% because their focus is elsewhere, their sleeping patterns are often not great, etc.'"

So now it becomes the NYT interviewing a recruiter, when the quote is actually my paraphrasing of somebody else's words.

The only journalist who has done a proper job is a German journalist by the name of Steffen Kraft, who asked for my phone number to call me and verify my post. Unfortunately I refused, so I was no help, but it appears Steffen Kraft is a good, ethical journalist whose work you can trust.
Goreschach
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Reply #346 on: December 24, 2008, 02:57:44 AM

The next wave is journalists quoting the New York Times.

No, the next wave is when businesses get wind of this and start screening against WoW players, so as to not be left behind in productivity management.
schild
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Reply #347 on: December 24, 2008, 03:01:07 AM

Oh hey, Techradar. Awesome. Another fuckup.
Slyfeind
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Reply #348 on: December 24, 2008, 03:17:59 AM

I'd rather hire a heroin addict than someone who wears puppy entrails as a hat.

Just sayin.

"Role playing in an MMO is more like an open orchestra with no conductor, anyone of any skill level can walk in at any time, and everyone brings their own instrument and plays whatever song they want.  Then toss PvP into the mix and things REALLY get ugly!" -Count Nerfedalot
Tale
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Reply #349 on: December 24, 2008, 03:19:01 AM

Hey Schild back to the awesomeness of machine translations ... I asked Google Translate to decipher what Power Unlimited was saying about all this:

Met het schaamrood op mijn kaken heb die game bij de lokale gamesboer gehaald. Best stom eigenlijk. = With the disarray that my jaws got game at the local game farm met. Best stupid, really.
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