Wii: Official console of Great Depression 2

[Triforcer]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28184210/

 

[Mandrel]

Why does the U.S. hate the U.S.?

[schild]

The poor have spoken! The meek shall inherit the earth! Or at least a console that's a generation behind!

Edit: In all seriousness, despite the fact most of those consumers probably paid with credit cards they can't pay off, it's nice that they still want to buy things for their kids on christmas. Seriously. It shows priorities are still in order, sort of. That said, if they were adults buying them for themselves, well, I hope they have total financial failure, lose their house, and burn in a lake of fire, stupidity, and bad taste.

[mutantmagnet]

You don't think the Wii counts as cheap entertainment?

People aren't going to simply stop finding ways to get their jollies off.

[schild]

You don't think the Wii counts as cheap entertainment?

People aren't going to simply stop finding ways to get their jollies off.

Cheap, like a state fair, sure.

Entertaining? Yea, like a state fair, sure.

[Jain Zar]

When will you just accept that Sony lost, and that their way was the wrong way dude?

Then again you apparently think like most development houses which is why the Wii has such a shit game selection.

ITS NOT CUTTING EDGE AND THUS THE GAMES CANNOT BE FUN.

Shit, some of my favorite games in the last 5 years are on the underpowered portables.  Its one of the few places I can go to get the kinds of games I want to play being a Mac user with OSX10.4 and all.

(The other place involves niche ass PC games usually made in former Soviet Bloc countries and usually infested with Starforce, bad translations, and bugs.)

[Tale]

The Wii is the new plasma TV. The must-have item for the masses.

Massive screen with great picture quality = want.

Videogame entertainment without learning a fiddly interface = want.

[HaemishM]

Sony lost, only they didn't lose to the Wii - because the Wii isn't going after the same market. You can say that it is, but you'd be wrong. The market Sony went after picked the XBox 360, which is donkeypunching the PS3 over and over again. The Wii went after a different market - the market that didn't exist. Can you seriously look at the majority of the Wii's catalog and think it's going to appeal to the same people who like the majority of the 360 and PS3 catalogs? If they were going after that market, they FAILED MISERABLY. The fact that they have made asstons of profit on the Wii just shows there was a market that previous consoles could never touch.

Christmas 2009 is going to be the breaking point. If the Wii isn't the top seller next Christmas season, we'll know it was a fad. Of course, had the developers and Nintendo itself concentrated on more quality titles as opposed to the casual game shovelware they've put out, I believe there would have been no chance it would have been a fad. But it might still be a fad based on the fact that this is the first Christmas where we should see demand fairly even with supply.

[Velorath]

Then again you apparently think like most development houses which is why the Wii has such a shit game selection.

If most development houses had shifted to Wii development, most of them would be out of business right now.  You think Infinity Ward or Bioware know how to make good family games?

[naum]

I think Nintendo has been rather Apple-esque (in 1980s parlance) in not exercising and exploiting its market margin.

Games for the platform have barely trickled out, and quality is hit and miss, and besides the initial wow factor of the accelerometer in early games, the feature has not really been tapped in much more creative fashion. The fact that it took years before a light saber game came out is bad enough, but even the simple act of using controller as pointer + mouse seems to have been lost on developers. Not to mention the half heart and/or near nonexistent attempt to capitalize on online realm. Even the web browser is a joke, as the biggest reason I used it was for playing flash videos is just about useless as the browser has never been updated to play Flash 9 video.

[Azazel]

The Wii software market just isn't as discerning as people like us are though. Little kids and families. People like our parents, who would have to range from 40-80+). People who have never looked at or considered buying a videogame.

They buy far, far fewer titles than we do. A lot of the shovelware is cheap and so gets bought for little kids, who, let's face it, will enjoy almost anything.
Why do you think badly-designed and programmed licenced shit has sold well since forever?

Jain Zar and Schild are both missing the point of the Wii. Haemish gets it. The 360 and PS3 are both apples, but the Wii is an orange.

[TheWalrus]

The Wii software market just isn't as discerning as people like us are though. Little kids and families. People like our parents, who would have to range from 40-80+). People who have never looked at or considered buying a videogame.

They buy far, far fewer titles than we do. A lot of the shovelware is cheap and so gets bought for little kids, who, let's face it, will enjoy almost anything.
Why do you think badly-designed and programmed licenced shit has sold well since forever?

Jain Zar and Schild are both missing the point of the Wii. Haemish gets it. The 360 and PS3 are both apples, but the Wii is an orange.

I think this is right. (As a wii owner) I buy games that my wife and our friends can play when we get together. I buy games that my daughter can play and enjoy. My father and mother in law love Mariokart. I just don't think that you can have the same kind of fun with a system that only has two player (if you don't go online) and doesn't have the movement aspect of the wii. 

[schild]

Jain Zar and Schild are both missing the point of the Wii. Haemish gets it. The 360 and PS3 are both apples, but the Wii is an orange.

Yes, truly a new point. I've never said the Wii was competing with board games rather than the 360 or the PS3 before.

Still doesn't negate the fact Nintendo is a bunch of evil assholes pushing trash onto the shelves of gaming stores. It doesn't matter if it's an orange or a basket of bananas, the point still stands that due to it's position in the market, it's mere existance is not only holding back development of decent shit, but it's changed the way the gaming market is perceived (for the worse) imo. Hopefully Nintendo screws up again the next go round so we can recover from what has thus far been a mostly stagnant and lackluster generation.

[Azazel]

I'll concede you the boardgames point, but blaming the Wii for the stagnancy and lackluster aspects of this generation's games is ridiculous. Regardless of whether you have a PS3/360, we're still just playing shinier PS2 games with a slap of former-PC games, such as all the FPS stuff. Often the exact same titles and franchises they were pumping out for the PS2 as well.

The Wii hasn't got anything to do with that. The stuff it gets is mostly shovelware and shovelware ports of PS360 games with waggle tacked-on, badly. Hey, NMH came out on Wii instead of a gamers' console, and there are a few other anomalies like that, but they're just that. Anomalies.

Remember the recent Blactivision announcment dumping anything that couldn't be exploited in a yearly franchise? Those annoual franchises aren't Wii titles...

[Velorath]

Hopefully Nintendo screws up again the next go round so we can recover from what has thus far been a mostly stagnant and lackluster generation.

All three console makers have a near equal hand in the problems the market is facing right now.  You can't really fault Nintendo just because they're the only ones who were actually able to find a way to profit this gen.

[Fabricated]

On the upside I turned my Wii on for the first time in I think...3 months to play some Smash Brothers with a good friend of mine.

The Wii's utterly worthless library isn't really a problem since the majority of those 2 million Wii's aren't going to be playing anything but WiiSports and WiiPlay.

[apocrypha]

Still doesn't negate the fact Nintendo is a bunch of evil assholes pushing trash onto the shelves of gaming stores.

They're businessmen. They're in the market to make money, not to further the cause of gaming. Aiming for the cheaper end of a crowded market is a business strategy that's worked well forever, especially in times of hardship. Whether or not that makes them evil assholes is a question for a politics thread really 

[Engels]

Blaming the state of 'good' games on the wii is like blaming the state of Wimbledon on ping pong.

[schild]

Blaming the state of 'good' games on the wii is like blaming the state of Wimbledon on ping pong.

I wish it were that easy. But that right there, that's a crock of bullshit.

Still doesn't negate the fact Nintendo is a bunch of evil assholes pushing trash onto the shelves of gaming stores.

They're businessmen. They're in the market to make money, not to further the cause of gaming. Aiming for the cheaper end of a crowded market is a business strategy that's worked well forever, especially in times of hardship. Whether or not that makes them evil assholes is a question for a politics thread really 

Oh, there's no doubt. Nintendo got lucky with the world going down the total shitter. There's no way they planned on that particular bit. I'm not saying the PS3 or 360 would've beaten the Wii this november if the world's economy weren't in the toilet, but it no doubt helped lengthen the spread and pad Nintendo's numbers. For years gaming has been one of the worlds indulgences during the holiday season and this time Christmas was going to the cheapest one no matter what it was. It doesn't make them evil, just makes them lucky.

[Velorath]

The 360 arcade is $50 cheaper than the Wii.  This is about more than just who was the cheapest this holiday season.

[Jain Zar]

Its not Nintendo's fault the developers put shit on the system.  Nintendo has never cared.  They let JLN and Acclaim release some of the biggest hunks of shit the NES had the misfortune to ever host. (Xmen for the NES is still the worst commercial videogame I have ever played.)

And they did the NES stuff back when they actually limited releases and were pushy about allowing stuff on the thing.

But they learned, Sony forgot (Remember all the 2D games Sony cockblocked on the PS1?) and I guess Nintendo is happy as long as they get their license fees even if its muddying their system with ass.

But it never hurt the SNES, Gameboy family, or DS so why would they stop it now even if oh sweet Cthulhu they need to?

They release the odd game that sells gangbusters and fuck if anything else is worth a shit.  And these days Nintendo Power isn't required reading so the few clever games get lost in the shuffle if its not published by the Big N.

The PS2 is still getting some great games on it, and outside of graphics fidelity I doubt most of the new games are any worse than the ones you pay 10 bucks more for on the 360 and PS3.  Is Lego Batman really that much more superior on the 360?  Is Madden? 

If that old beast can still do compelling games why not a system that is 4 times as powerful as its elder parent which was better than the PS2 in the last console cycle?
I mean, have we seen the Rogue Squadron games or Resident Evil 4?  The Gamecube was host to some really good looking games when the developers gave a fuck.

There are plenty of people who own a Wii looking for more traditional games, or even some new gamers who now want to play all the cool stuff they missed.

Where are the turn based wargames for the guy who watches History Channel?
Howabout some good murder mystery adventure games for the CSI fan?
More retrofeeling games for the NES owner who skipped everything since due to college and getting drunk/laid?
RPGs for the kids who loved Final Fantasy 1 but never got deeper?
Tetris and its kin for everyone?

These sorts of games can be found on almost every other Nintendo system in spite of shitty kid license X infesting it.

[Tmon]

I agree with Haemish the WII is for the most part building its own market not taking from an existing one.  I'm giving my wife a WII for Christmas, it's the first video game system she's shown interest in since I've known her.  Since the games I play most are either exclusive to PCs or available on both console and PC, I've never had the urge to buy a console for myself so in my family's case WII isn't stealing a customer from another console they are adding a customer to a market that the other consoles didn't have a shot at.

[NiX]

The 360 arcade is $50 cheaper than the Wii.  This is about more than just who was the cheapest this holiday season.

Don't be silly! Nintendo is just pure evil for sapping away customers from our beloved Microsoft and Sony! They're also single handedly ruining game franchises by making companies develop on the Wii.

[mutantmagnet]

Nintendo can be blamed for a lot of things but the current state of gaming is not it.

I brought the Wii recently with the hope to get a good number of games that make good use of the motion tech so I can get a gameplay experience traditional consoles don't support.
I have a decent list of games to choose from that will hold me out for a year easily but it amazes me how limited my options are turning out to be.

The selections of FPS are terrible and that is the one genre I expected devs to actually deliver on because what's hard about making a good FPS? Apparently they can't make one without high fidelity graphics.  

What's really pathetic is noone has even attempted an RTS. Consoles always were a bad platform, but for once you had a machine that doesn't have the same limitations and developers don't even try experimenting with that? This console won't get anything resembling an RTS until Pikmin 3.


This alone shows how much devs are underperforming for the Wii but there's one thing that pisses me off more than that, shovelware.


It's bad enough that the developers don't serve my needs correctly but my sensibilities are further offended at the quality of games they make for other consumers.

For the first year they primarily made minigames as if that's the only thing consumers wanted.
DUring the past two yearsr cartoony art directions with equally infantile storytelling has been all the rage because kids and sometimes women play the console. The age group of Wii users is skewed towards the 30s and not the preteens.
It's absurd they aren't making games that appeal to more adult sensibilities. They don't have to be tetosterone injectors like the games they make for PS3 or 360.


If developers were actually good at making videogames they could compete with Nintendo on their console on a consistent basis.

Many developers lacking imagination, guts and skill is what makes the current generation look crappy now.

Nintendo can be blamed for future problems if MS and Sony magically decide to not push their technology forward (I expect one of them not to do this). Other than that not much else.

[schild]

Where are the turn based wargames for the guy who watches History Channel?
Howabout some good murder mystery adventure games for the CSI fan?
More retrofeeling games for the NES owner who skipped everything since due to college and getting drunk/laid?
RPGs for the kids who loved Final Fantasy 1 but never got deeper?
Tetris and its kin for everyone?

1. Only, only you would put that at the top of the list. Turn based war games do not sell well, ever. Not on consoles.
2. That stuff is selling decently on the DS. I think Strongbad did well on the Wii.
3. Mega Man 9?
4. Dragon Quest X is coming out. RPGs are pretty light all around this generation.
5. Boom Blox. Should be pushing 2M copies now. The closest thing to Tetris in the last 3 generations of consoles is Lumines though and it got nowhere near dethroning tetris - and won't. Nothing will. Except maybe, tetris? Maybe. Not likely.

If developers were actually good at making videogames they could compete with Nintendo on their console on a consistent basis.

It has been proving time and time again, that since the SNES, it doesn't matter how good third party games are on the current Nintendo console, that the only stuff that ever sells anywhere near that much on (again, a Ninty console), is Capcom and Square stuff, and even then, it's hit and miss. Stuff might do well in Japan, but not the US and vice versa. I think Carnival Games did very well on the Wii - which speaks a lot towards their demographic. Really, it says just about everything.

[mutantmagnet]

Carnival games speaks volumes that you can find people with less sophisticated tastes but I still think developers are pandering the wrong loving way.

For example, let's just assume the Wii was a console for only women and children. Why is every Sim Life, cooking game pandering to children's tastes? I think women only tolerate this kiddy tripe, because they have no other options.

Let's go one step further. Women in general love soap operas. Where's a AAA version of something as basic as a female lead caught in a love triangle?

 Stay at home women I bet don't stay at home much if they can do so. Where's the pick up and play game that integrates the DS so they can do certain tasks while sitting on bus or waiting on an appointment and when they get back home they could see the fruits of their labor on a bigger screen with additonal features the DS can't support.

This is just women. There are ways to cater to the sensibilities of the elderly and middle aged men (though I think this demographic doesn't look for the Wii for something fun as much as other consoles) that involves more than the banality of Carnival Games and WiiMusic.

I wouldn't be this annoyed if developers were simply happy throwing out shovelware because they do get away with it in the Wii market. But they have the audacity to complain their other types of games don't sell well on the Wii.

They already shot themselves in the foot by sending the Wii abysmal ports of the games they like to make so they'll just have to wait and see if developers like Capcom and High VOltage can do what they are afraid to do now.

More importantly they need to repair their brain and remember part of the reason they got into the industry was to make games they liked that didn't pander down to them with infantile plotlines and aesthetic choices. If other adults are buying the Wii they should try making adult games like Gabriel Knight or highly intuitive interactive software like Wiifit and Wiisports which was the reason the Wii caze sustains its crazy sales record.

[schild]

The Wii's crazy sales record is only set in hardware and by Wii Play - because it comes with a second controller. Afaik, the only runaway no-doubt hit is still Wii Sports and it's bundled in the box. The best selling games in Japan are still Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter. And the best selling games in America, as per the norm, are still shooters and sports titles, WoW, and the odd Nintendo first party franchise (as has been the norm for a while, with WoW being added just recently. The paradigm isn't shifting with the Wii because there's no point. Just like the Xbox was the Halo Box and the Gamecube was the Smash Brothers Cube, the Wii is the Wii Sports toy.

An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time.

[Wasted]

I bought a Wii on launch day and haven't played it for probably close to a year.  The kids use it a little but I don't buy any games for it anymore.  If they had more games that I liked, I'd probably get more games for the kids too, I don't understand the narrow range.  Its like they think us parents just forget about the system when the kids stop playing, imagine if when they released DVD players they where locked to G rated movies only.

But I'm getting a ps3 next week so what do I care anyways 

[UnSub]

If we can agree that the Wii isn't in the same space as the X360 / PS3, then that's the end of comparability. Unless you want to also argue that portables / handhelds should also be included in the discussion, and they sell a ton more than the consoles.

[Velorath]

The Wii's crazy sales record is only set in hardware and by Wii Play - because it comes with a second controller. Afaik, the only runaway no-doubt hit is still Wii Sports and it's bundled in the box.

Mario Kart has remained in the top 10 NPD's since it launched and is currently around 10 million sold world-wide.  Wii Fit is closing in on 10 million as well.  Smash Bros. and SMG I think have both sold around 6-7 million world-wide.  The top selling 3rd party games are Big Brain academy and Guitar Hero 3 with a couple million in sales each, and Carnival Games which I think is just under 2 million.

[schild]

Mario Kart hit 10M? Yow, didn't see that. As for Wii Fit, I said before it'll probably be the best selling thing ever in the history of the world, whether I liked it or not. Too bad the total weightloss around the world due to it is probably far below 10M.

Smash and SMG, those numbers are expected.

[HaemishM]

An install base of 200M means jack shit if the attach rate for anything that's not a ninty title is god awful. You're not seeing that AAA stuff because it's not worth the dev time.

The attach rate on the Wii has been equal to or marginally higher than the PS3's. Try again.

You're not seeing AAA stuff becuase the dev's think they are too "good" for making games on the system, or they just aren't smart enough to figure out how to use waggle for anything but gimmicks and remapping traditional controls.

[Velorath]

Mario Kart hit 10M? Yow, didn't see that.

Probably over that by a bit now.  By the end of Sept. they had sold 950,000 according to their financial reports, so that wasn't even counting holiday sales.

[Ratman_tf]

I haven't bought a console since Gamecube and PS2. There just aren't any interesting games that I "must have" on any of the next-gen consoles.

[Big Gulp]

I haven't bought a console since Gamecube and PS2. There just aren't any interesting games that I "must have" on any of the next-gen consoles.

I'm hardly a primarily console gamer; my 360 hasn't been turned on in at least a month, and that was for a Rock Band night, but this is nonsense.  I can point to a dozen must own titles that are console only.  If your tastes don't trend that way, that's fine, but it's a problem with you, and not with the platform.