Patch 1.0.6 - Highlights and more

[rk47]

Yeah I've seen the light and will continue to pay to stress test your game for you.

[Evildrider]

What? You guys expected the most basic selling point of this game to be a properly functioning mechanic 2+ months after release? Talk about unrealistic expectations! 

Sorry if we're not sipping the fucking cool-aid without proof that it tastes good. WoW didn't raise the bar on what an RvR MMO was supposed to be, it raised the bar on what any MMO was supposed to be. Disagreeing with that point puts you, quite squarely, on the side opposite of everyone who "gets it".

I should throw some money at them while they improve things amrite?
No I'm not saying woW did the 40 man raids right, it was an example of 'here's what we got for you, if you buy our product' that they kept spewing in their interviews. I'd like to have some of their kool aid too. WoW promised quests & world of warcraft. And I got it, I never asked for PVP from that game. There were no tome unlocks, but I read most interesting locales quests for the sake of interest. Stranglethorn Valley was nice to explore and quest in. Darkshore -still the best PVE zone I quested in game. See? I quested. Because the game was selling that to me. And it was fun. It works. Gears, money , exp.

Now you tell me it's OK if they promise 'WAR IS EVERYWHERE U CAN PROGRESS UGAHGUAGHAUGHAUHG' but tell me 'Hell no, you can't expect fortress sieges to be stable within 2.5 months, so stick with keep capping, and scen VP grinding to victory and happy crashing'

In short: Server crash is not Okay.

Well we did manage to push 2 zones and then take the Fortress last night on REM.

[Lantyssa]

re-read it, I hardly said anything.  I haven't played a game that didn't have crash issues when large numbers of people were involved.  Name a game that can handle as many people in the same area at the same time?  WoW couldn't and still can't.  Did you actually use a 40 man raid as an example?

Raiding a city in WoW isn't the main focus of the game.  It is in WAR.  And it crashes the server.

[Nebu]

Raiding a city in WoW isn't the main focus of the game.  It is in WAR.  And it crashes the server.

It's the player's fault!

[Bismallah]

-- Re-think your statement.

re-read it, I hardly said anything.  I haven't played a game that didn't have crash issues when large numbers of people were involved.  Name a game that can handle as many people in the same area at the same time?  WoW couldn't and still can't.  Did you actually use a 40 man raid as an example?

The problem with Mythic is that this issue should have showed up sooner and should have been fixed by now, but not expecting it to happen is most certainly silly.  You know WoW will have a server crash if too many people try and raid a city, right?

WoW raised the bar for PvE, stop using that silly cartoon game as an example of all that is right in the world.

Dude, just stop. You're making yourself look like an idiot. WoW never promised end game raiding with 800 players. WoW 40 man raids do not crash zones and run smooth as butter. Why are you even trying to talk about WoW city raids? At no point did WoW say anything about that being the end game. Stop being a fucking clown. Use an argument that WoW promised something and didn't deliver like WAR is doing then we'll talk. Don't be mad at WoW because you don't like it, be mad at WAR because they put out a shit product and people will not continue to pay for shit products like they used to.

[HaemishM]

I expected server crashes from day one, sorry if your expectations were higher. 

This is entirely too indicative of the shit sandwich MMOG's as a medium really are. You and most MMO veterans expect to be completely and utterly disappointed. You expect major features to be absolutely broken months after release with no hope in sight of a fix, or even a service remedy for the fuckup.

No one should have to pay for this kind of bullshit. Major features that are absolutely unplayable and broken are not acceptable. They shouldn't have been acceptable in 1999 when EQ was released. Nine years later and they sure as fuck shouldn't be acceptable now. Every customer still paying should get a refund for this month, just because a major selling feature of the goddamn game is NOT FUCKING WORKING.

[Demonix]

I expected server crashes from day one, sorry if your expectations were higher. 

This is entirely too indicative of the shit sandwich MMOG's as a medium really are. You and most MMO veterans expect to be completely and utterly disappointed. You expect major features to be absolutely broken months after release with no hope in sight of a fix, or even a service remedy for the fuckup.

No one should have to pay for this kind of bullshit. Major features that are absolutely unplayable and broken are not acceptable. They shouldn't have been acceptable in 1999 when EQ was released. Nine years later and they sure as fuck shouldn't be acceptable now. Every customer still paying should get a refund for this month, just because a major selling feature of the goddamn game is NOT FUCKING WORKING.

I want to hug haemish for this statement, but I'm afraid he would rip off my head and desecrate my corpse.

So i will just pretend to hug you while I'm standing in this bunker ALL THE WAY OVER HERE.

Tl:dr = THIS

[tolakram]

I see nothing but random rehashing of what already happened.  How is this better than VN?  I know what sucks, you know my opinion, what's the point? 

I expected everything to work right except the city sieges, which would probably crash due to the number of people.  Apparently this statement is enough to engage the automated fanboi defenses.

I think it's fair to say WE KNOW. 

edited for, um, some reason

[Hindenburg]

what's the point?

I take it you're new to the internets?

[Nebu]

How is this better than VN?

Signal to noise ratio.  In a BIG way.

[Gurney]

What? You guys expected the most basic selling point of this game to be a properly functioning mechanic 2+ months after release? Talk about unrealistic expectations! 

Sorry if we're not sipping the fucking cool-aid without proof that it tastes good. WoW didn't raise the bar on what an RvR MMO was supposed to be, it raised the bar on what any MMO was supposed to be. Disagreeing with that point puts you, quite squarely, on the side opposite of everyone who "gets it".

In regards to Fortress crashing specifically WoW could not have raised the bar.  SS/TM raids regularly crashed servers well after the release of WoW.  It is quite probable that the current WoW PvP implementation was based partially on trying to avoid massive PvP fight that crashed entire servers.


EvE would be another matter, but I don't think EvE is setting industry standards even if people who know alot about MMO use it as a valid example.


However in a general sense I think WoW has raised the bar for QA and for not making catass games that make normal people miserable.




So I would say that to some extent the QA part bleeds into server stability but even people not to into MMO history, design, etc realize that WoW did not set large battle server stability standards.  They do however expect anyone who wants to compete with WoW to, you know, actually test out their majorly advertised features.

In other words many people expect some crashes in fortress battles.  They do not expect or condone unplayability.



Anyone who says "WAR fortress sieges suck WoW did it muich better".  Is probably going to get rightfully told they are an idiot by a number of people who played WoW in its first year or even 2 years.  And will not really have a great reply.

Anyone who says "In this day and age having a major advertised feature be unplaybale is unacceptable, people don't want to pay for Beta".  Well that is pretty much the truth.  You want to compete with WoW don't release a Beta.  Period.  End of story.  You have a feature that is not ready or playbalbe.  Don't advertise it or you are releasing a Beta.

One of the biggest QA things Blizzard has always done right; they do not advertise or hype a feature until its ready.  They are hush hush until its ready.  They simply do not over-promise.  That is not the same as saying they do not hype a feature as being cooler than it is.  They and their fanboys hype things ad nausiem and at every opportunity.  But they do not promise a feature and then not have it work decently, at least not very often.  Yes their stuff does not meet the hype.  Nothing does that is why its hype.  Sure "Sand LoL" PvP sucked but it worked according to what they described.  It was a misstep IMO but that is not the same things as pull the rug out from under someone by promising a awesome fortress siege and then having it crahs over and over months after release.  That just pisses people off and makes them think you are incapable of making stuff even if it sounds cool.

If you are incapable of making something work, then you NEVER have a good product.  If you are capable of making something work, then even if only 50% of your ideas are good then you still have a far better game than the former outfit.

[Arthur_Parker]

How is this better than VN?

With your previous comment being "I expected server crashes from day one, sorry if your expectations were higher.", I'm struggling to come up with an answer.

[morph]

WoW 40vs40 wintergrasp and city raids (before WoTLK) work seamlessly on my laptop.
Battles of similar magnitude in WAR, did not crash the server, but it was most of the times
a slideshow.

Its obvious that they needed 4 to 6 months of development before releasing their "product".
Current state of the game is good enough for open beta.
I can understand that they could not easily test 100vs100 fortress battles in real circumstances, but
still some things that went live (i.e. the contribution fiasco) show that Mythic is totally unprofessional
with their games, undermining any future efforts they may make in the field...

[tolakram]

How is this better than VN?

With your previous comment being "I expected server crashes from day one, sorry if your expectations were higher.", I'm struggling to come up with an answer.

Well I guess my expectations might have been too low, but when you gets hundreds of people in the same place at the same time everyone seems to have issues, including WoW.  This is turning into more of a political like back and forth more than anything else.

I wouldn't be surprised if server crashes during big battles actually attracted people to the game because they see that RvR is happening. Yes, it's a sad statement of the state of WAR and MMO's.

I can understand that they could not easily test 100vs100 fortress battles in real circumstances, but
still some things that went live (i.e. the contribution fiasco) show that Mythic is totally unprofessional
with their games, undermining any future efforts they may make in the field...

I totally agree, all I mentioned was the big rvr battles.  I expected problems with big 100vs100+ battles.  <---  I'm also glad they seem to have found the contribution problem.  Why?  because if the damn game was fixed I think it would be fun to play.

[morph]

I totally agree, all I mentioned was the big rvr battles.  I expected problems with big 100vs100+ battles.  <---  I'm also glad they seem to have found the contribution problem.  Why?  because if the damn game was fixed I think it would be fun to play.

There was no contribution problem. That did not happen by mistake neither was it a bug. The functionality of the advertised operation, taking into account the complexity of the problem, needs an implementation of a couple of thousands of lines of code.
What they released was a call to     random()%500 +1.
I'm pretty sure everyone in Mythic knew about it.

[Arthur_Parker]

I wouldn't be surprised if server crashes during big battles actually attracted people to the game because they see that RvR is happening.

Yup, I'm expecting that to happen any second now, absolute masses of returning subscribers, I wouldn't be surprised if they need to open some more servers.

/green.

We're on a non stop trip to crazy town now aren't we?

[tolakram]

I wouldn't be surprised if server crashes during big battles actually attracted people to the game because they see that RvR is happening.

Yup, I'm expecting that to happen any second now, absolute masses of returning subscribers, I wouldn't be surprised if they need to open some more servers.

/green.

We're on a non stop trip to crazy town now aren't we?

Parker stop it.  This game will never be the hit they wanted it to be and I know it.  You're doing nothing more than trolling at this point, why?

[Hindenburg]

You know it, but they don't. That's why parker's hard at work, fighting the good fight. He'd be a  god damn american hero, were it not for the european thing.

Seriously tolakram, you're enabling people.

[Arthur_Parker]

Parker stop it.  This game will never be the hit they wanted it to be and I know it.  You're doing nothing more than trolling at this point, why?

Name me one game you have been attracted to because of server instability.  Why would you even say that?  If you enjoy WAR that's fine but stop looking for reasons to justify why you are playing it, the fact you enjoy it is good enough.

[tolakram]

If you enjoy WAR that's fine

I don't and I haven't played for 2 weeks now.  I'm waiting for 1.1 to give it a final go.  You take population comments way way to seriously, though I suspect that's mostly my fault.  What I intended to say what that by Mythic posting that they are working on fortress siege crashes it might pull people back who wanted fortress sieges to happen.  So ironically crashes might get people back.

I'm more interested in evidence of RvR than I'm worried about crashes.   Mythic has a history of being able to fix crashes, where they fail is in the design itself.

[ghost]

Parker stop it.  This game will never be the hit they wanted it to be and I know it.  You're doing nothing more than trolling at this point, why?

Name me one game you have been attracted to because of server instability.  Why would you even say that?  If you enjoy WAR that's fine but stop looking for reasons to justify why you are playing it, the fact you enjoy it is good enough.

Wait.  Hold on a minute. 

I thought server instability was an on-the-box feature of WAR.  Now you are insinuating that it isn't?  What gives.  That was my primary reason for buying the game.

[Zzulo]

evidence of RVR? I have done nothing but ORVR for the last week

[Special J]

I wish my server would crash more.

[Modern Angel]

If you enjoy WAR that's fine

I don't and I haven't played for 2 weeks now.  I'm waiting for 1.1 to give it a final go.  You take population comments way way to seriously, though I suspect that's mostly my fault.  What I intended to say what that by Mythic posting that they are working on fortress siege crashes it might pull people back who wanted fortress sieges to happen.  So ironically crashes might get people back.

I'm more interested in evidence of RvR than I'm worried about crashes.   Mythic has a history of being able to fix crashes, where they fail is in the design itself.

You have shown some of the strangest twists of logic that I've ever seen here.

[HaemishM]

Cognitive dissonance is really the only way to enjoy MMOG's these days. 

[Kail]

evidence of RVR? I have done nothing but ORVR for the last week

Had a good fight on Friday, but nothing since then on my servers.  Would be nice to see that change with 1.1, but I'm skeptical.

Though I do like the class balance a lot more, now.  Wizards and Sorcerers are still the big AOE damage dealers, but not as crazily overpowered.  Other classes which felt useless before are able to actually go out and get kills, so I'm having a lot of fun with my army of alts (deleted my main in a fit of stupidity, oops).

[tolakram]

You have shown some of the strangest twists of logic that I've ever seen here.

heh, can't argue with that.  I think the bottom line is that my expectations of Mythic are in the toilet and I suspect others are as well.  We're desperate for an RvR game. I understand the DAoC populations have been steadily rising for the last few weeks as well.  Mythic can succeed by failing less than everyone else.

[Modern Angel]

It wasn't meant as a compliment.

[tolakram]

It wasn't meant as a compliment.

I didn't take it as one, but thanks for trolling anyway.  I'm still trying to figure out why many of you are here.  Is there something in particular Mythic can work on that would make you come back to the game, or have you given up.  If you've given up then why are you paying attention?  My opinion is fairly straight forward, to me anyway.

1. I expected Mythic to fail when large groups came out to open rvr, but I also expect them to be able to fix it.  Mythic is terrible at stress testing, they let players pay them for the privilege.

2. I did not expect Mythic to design a game that failed to provide incentives for oRvR.  I'm still not 100% happy with their solutions, but activity has picked up over the last few weeks and should pick up more once 1.1 is released.

3. I am pleased they are finally concentrating on things I think are important.  Contribution issues, oRvR, large sieges.  I'm still upset they put a class balance patch before oRvR, it demonstrates how clueless they are.

4. Since I'm not a game designer I'm not about to predict what changes will make the game more fun for me.  I'll try 1.1 once released, on a populated server (Skull Throne), and see if it works for me.  If it doesn't then I'm gone.

Apparently my willingness to give it another try is a crime of epic proportions.  None of this should read like a glowing review of Mythic because they failed, I think we all know they failed and I think we all know why they failed.   I think most of us also can agree that if they get anything right it will probably be by accident.  It's my money, and a fool and his money ...

That was not meant to be a compliment.   

[Hindenburg]

I'm still trying to figure out why many of you are here. 

Pages 1, 2 and 3 of this thread should give you a clear idea.

[eldaec]

I'm crying inside for the poor souls around f13 who aren't seeing this thread.

This thread is why Warhammer shouldn't be in the graveyard yet.

This thread is also why we need some sort of proper signal for ongoing awesome somewhere within the forum.

[Arthur_Parker]

I didn't take it as one, but thanks for trolling anyway.  I'm still trying to figure out why many of you are here.  Is there something in particular Mythic can work on that would make you come back to the game, or have you given up.  If you've given up then why are you paying attention?  My opinion is fairly straight forward, to me anyway.
.......
Apparently my willingness to give it another try is a crime of epic proportions. 

1 Hope
2 Disappointment
3 Comedy
4 Apathy

That's the cycle, we are currently at phase 3, drifting occasionally into phase 4.  Your decision to play it or not isn't a crime, you just brought us back to phase 3 a couple of times with your posts, so it's all good and you really should be thanked.

[HaemishM]

I'm still trying to figure out why many of you are here.  Is there something in particular Mythic can work on that would make you come back to the game, or have you given up.  If you've given up then why are you paying attention?

We enjoy a good, bloody, slow-motion trainwreck.

Also, your "logic" is that you knew the main selling feature of the game would be shit, so paying to be delivered that shit on a shit platter is ok, because you expected to get shit. And apparently, you like shit, but can only tolerate it until the Shit 1.1 patch is released, at which point the shit better taste like ass instead or you're out of there.

[Modern Angel]

I'm very emphatically not trolling. We've established the good, bad and ugly of this game a while ago. You're absolutely correct. However, you're a bright, shining star of crazy with just enough innocence to act shocked (SHOCKED I TELL YOU!) about what's going on here. That's why people are descending on you like a pack of rabid hyenas.

[tolakram]

Are you telling me you're shocked that Mythic has crash bugs and missed the primary point of the game?  At least I had reasonable expectations.  Next you'll be telling me you thought crafting would be something special because MJ designed it himself. *cough*   Oh, and I suppose that because of ToA Mythic would never ever design anything resembling gear grind.  Shocking!

This game will never be the game I wanted it to be, ever.  It may become something I can enjoy for a few more months ...

Point noted about the train wreck, there really is nothing wrong with continually making fun of Mythic at every opportunity.  I had a fanboy moment, but I'm all better now.