Lost [FINALE SPOILERS PAGE 25 ONWARDS]

[Modern Angel]

I think you dudes are overthinking that last little bit.

[Arthur_Parker]

[March]

Y'know, I'm kinda ok with the ending except...

[Questions]

[Spoiler Theory #84721]
Okay, plenty of holes, but what can you do...

Yeah... if only they had seen the end coming and had some sort of vehicle to tie-off some of the open theories and provide somewhat coherent answer to the rest.  If only...

[Signe]

I don't know what I'm supposed to put in spoiler tags.  I should think most people who haven't watched the ending yet but intend to, wouldn't come here.  Who knows.   It's like posting in green.  It annoys me when I see it.  It looks strange.

[Draegan]

You could of just watched the last season with a little character background and follow the story easy enough because it had zero to do with the rest of the last five years.

It was incredibly lazy writing and a cop-out.

[UnSub]

I'm here, having stopped watching Lost in season 2 (?) when Echo died. I was waiting to see if I missed anything.

Not much, it appears.

As for characters: I got tired of them early on having to be idiots to keep the plot rolling along. It really didn't appear that anything changed.

[Vaiti]

Deus. Ex. Machina.

Not that I'm surprised. Or anyone on this board is surprised. We expected this kind of ending looooooong ago.

It's the trend and status que that must be maintained for good shows I guess. The endings are always complete bullshit.

I was actually laughing around the last minute of the episode as I saw what they were doing.
I feel this ending is far far worse than BSG even. BSG I feel has somewhat of an excuse for it's horribly shoddy rushed ending.
Somewhere around the end of Season 2 or the middle of Season 3 of BSG they got the news that there wasn't going to be more than 4 seasons, and thus things rapidly changed course and we got the ending we did due to them having to wrap things up quick.
Lost, on the other hand. Knew damn well in advance, from the start of Season 4, that they were going to have only 6 seasons. I think they even announced that earlier than Season 4, maybe even around the start of Season 3.
2-3 full seasons to wrap this shit up in a way that makes some sense. And they take the "the ending is what you, the viewer, wants it to be" out.
Bravo. Well done.

[Samwise]

I thought it was less disappointing than the BSG ending. Which is a low bar, but at least it saved me the expense of heaving a brick through my TV. 

[Vaiti]

Oh, I'll go with less disappointing. I was actually laughing here. Where as with BSG for the last half of it's ending I was in perpetual "WTF are you doing" mode.

They ended the way we pretty much knew it would end. The ending even worked. But it would have worked better 2 seasons ago  The last 2 seasons seem to actually hurt their explanation but adding on 2 extra seasons of questions for an ending that we basically figured out from season 1.

For whatever reason while writing the above I was reminded of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWMIuipn_c

[Engels]

You know what I hate? Idjits that put season finale spoilers in the Facebook status update. I mean, right there, not in the comments, I mean, bold as life, all caps, spoilers.

[Teleku]

I'm sort of torn on that.  I guess I could see "less disappointing" in that BSG still retained some of its awesomeness (it was certainly up and down in season 4, but when it was up, it was way up) going into the final episodes.  So walking into it, you figured it could have been a good ending, but turned out not to be.  With Lost, we've slowly been building up this entire season to disappointment, and we knew it was coming.  The way they were just writing of explanations with half ass'ed poorly thought out answers, and just ignoring most things, I think everybody was prepared for something like this going into the final episode.

I will say I think this was a worst ending however.  Lost is a mystery/character show.  They pretty much fucked over all the characters by this point, but then they completely fucked over all the mystery as well.  At least I still enjoyed watching the BSG final episode.  Even if I wish they had done it differently, the overall plot for the end was fine, they just didn't execute it very well.  With the Lost final episode, I watched them break rule after rule in moving the plot forward, some they had just setup only a few episodes before.  They proceeded to not explain a damn thing.  And the few things they did explain sucked.
I didn't even really enjoy watching this episode, and had several eye rolling moments.  I also had to pause and take a break when we went through yet another damn birth scene.

So yeah, I'd say they actually managed a worst ending than BSG.  But I'm not really that deeply disappointed, since they gave us plenty of foreshadowing that the writers really do just suck.  

Edit:

You know what I hate? Idjits that put season finale spoilers in the Facebook status update. I mean, right there, not in the comments, I mean, bold as life, all caps, spoilers.

The sad thing is there is almost nothing to spoil.  Like, the thing I just put in spoiler tags and the explanation for the sideways world is pretty much it.

[Engels]

I don't even mind spoilers 'unspoilered' in this thread. I mean, really, if you're going to go to a thread called Lost on a forum, you sorta expect spoilers. I just don't read this thread till I get to see it tomorrow or whenever. But really, in the FB status page. What are you, an idiot?!

[HaemishM]

I thought it was absolutely brilliant. Just go ahead and count me in the fanboy camp, because the only thing I was disappointed that they didn't answer was the origins of Dogan and the temple. Other than that, I was thoroughly satisfied. I think Modern Angel got the gist of the ending correct.

[AcidCat]

It was an amazing emotional catharsis for me, I thought it ended wonderfully. These characters have been a part of my life for a long time, it is sad to see them go.

[Samwise]

I think the most disappointing thing for me might have been the fact that they didn't explain fuck all about Eloise.

[Vaiti]

because the show wasn't about the island, it was about these characters and their reactions to what they are put through. [/spoiler]

Same excuse they used for the BSG ending. iirc

As for the audience expecting too much bit. Here is my take on that.
I was expecting more, but most of my expectations came from them dangling a carrot in my face. Here is a giant three toed statue. We're going to make a big deal about how mysterious it is. We'll keep alluding to it abunch. Where did it come from? Why does Jacob live there? You don't need to know. Look at this fucking statue tho. It's fucking mysterious. Stop asking about it. Look at this fucking statue. This statue is really fucking important. Stop asking about it.

I'm going with the artistic cop out and "We didn't think it through" on the writers behalf for the answers here.

[Nonentity]

If you stuck with the show for all six years and thought it was more about the "answers" than the characters, I am shocked.

Mind you, I would have enjoyed some nice coherent wrap-it-all-up answers, but at the end of the day that wasn't what kept me coming back every episode.

I stole this as a quote to stick in my writeup I did on Facebook, because I feel exactly the same way. It's sad to see the characters go, but in their restraints, they did as well as they could have done, and I was happy.

Here's what I posted there regarding Lost:

[Samwise]

I was expecting more, but most of my expectations came from them dangling a carrot in my face. Here is a giant three toed statue. We're going to make a big deal about how mysterious it is. We'll keep alluding to it abunch. Where did it come from? Why does Jacob live there? You don't need to know. Look at this fucking statue tho. It's fucking mysterious. Stop asking about it. Look at this fucking statue. This statue is really fucking important. Stop asking about it.

Yeah, pretty much this.  I thought the things they did wrap up were done well enough, but there was a LOT of stuff that they spent a lot of time getting me curious about with no payoff at the end.  Cockteases. 

[Modern Angel]

It strikes me, on thinking some more about it and reading some more analysis, that this is actually two shows in one. On the one hand, we had the sprawling genre fiction epic with all of the questions. That show is immensely unsatisfying given the ending and season six.

But on the other hand we have a character drama and, more importantly, an examination of the mythology of storytelling itself. The rub here is that I don't even think they meant to make the second show. This second show, though? It's amazingly consistent in its use of repeated themes. I can't think of another show that did a better job of picking out about two dozen themes and symbols and using them as well and as consistently as Lost has. For this second Lost, the story at the end really didn't matter; only the use of theme, symbol and mood does. I think last night's finale was pretty disappointing for the first Lost but pretty rad for the second.

[Vaiti]

Basically the conclusion I've come to as well. Basically.

Lost was both about the characters and the island and it's mystery.
You can group fans into 3 camps. Those who watched for the characters, tho for the island etc; and those who were half and half.

There were characters I liked and disliked. If one of the ones I disliked got a episode centering around them, I was less inclined to want to watch it or pay that much attention. However, if said episode preview also happened to include little glimpes of say... some new Hatch or what have you. I would watch the episode more carefully. Not because I honestly gave a crap at all about what Kate was doing for instance. But wtf is up with that Hatch. I MUST KNOW.

[Paelos]

I'm glad I gave up trying to care four or five episodes ago. The train was already totally derailed for me when they kept talking about these stupid side-interactions that I just couldn't see any purpose for. I actually thought it was some version of hell. Turned out it was just my version.

Also the whole, "It's about the journey," copout we hear so often? Think about the number of really good episodes. Then, honestly think about how many of the episodes were total cockblocking filler shit that advanced maybe one setpiece. Run a percentage. My guess is at best across all viewers you're coming up with 60/40.

The journey sucked too. Yeah, I watched it for the mystery. I liked some of the characters, but the writers went out of their way to pose a lot of questions they refused to deal with. We were led out to an Oasis, which turned out to be a mirage, and now people are drinking the sand and telling the rest of us how refreshing it is.

[Rishathra]

I was expecting more, but most of my expectations came from them dangling a carrot in my face. Here is a giant three toed statue. We're going to make a big deal about how mysterious it is. We'll keep alluding to it a bunch. Where did it come from? Why does Jacob live there? You don't need to know. Look at this fucking statue tho. It's fucking mysterious. Stop asking about it. Look at this fucking statue. This statue is really fucking important. Stop asking about it.

Yeah, pretty much this.  I thought the things they did wrap up were done well enough, but there was a LOT of stuff that they spent a lot of time getting me curious about with no payoff at the end.  Cockteases.  

I completely agree with these statements, but at the same time, I agree with HaemishM.  As much as I was intrigued by the mysteries, and as cock-punchingly bad as the writers managed to handle resolving them, I'm still quite happy with the ending.  From the very start, what made this show good for me was the characters, and the finale was a nice goodbye to them.


Kate and Juliet wear black dresses well.

I am somewhat upset that we never really found out what the whole deal with Widmore was, either before or after he 'saw the error of his ways.'  What was that shit in the boat going to be used for, anyways?

[Samwise]

Anyone who guessed that the flash sideways was hell wasn't all that far off.  The main difference between purgatory and hell is that you eventually get out of purgatory.

[HaemishM]

because the show wasn't about the island, it was about these characters and their reactions to what they are put through.

Same excuse they used for the BSG ending. iirc

No. Ronald Moore came out many times and said that the characters were slaves to the story, which is why they changed fucking moods with the wind. The BSG characters were whoever they needed to be for whatever story the writers wanted to tell that week. That was one of the many flaws with the last half of the series. The characters never had any consistency.

[Soln]

I think Haemish's write up makes the most sense.  The ending was a way for the writer's to allow the fans a happy ending for all the characters they cared about, even Ben.  

I guess they could've done more, but the on-island scenes were quite well paced.

Honest question to us all:  what ending would have we preferred?

personally, I would've liked a little more about the smoke and all the Egyptian references.  And maybe more about the Dharma Initiative.  Oh wells, not as bad as the XFiles.

[Rishathra]

Same excuse they used for the BSG ending. iirc

No. Ronald Moore came out many times and said that the characters were slaves to the story, which is why they changed fucking moods with the wind. The BSG characters were whoever they needed to be for whatever story the writers wanted to tell that week. That was one of the many flaws with the last half of the series. The characters never had any consistency.

In the same breath, he would say that the show was ALL ABOUT the characters, and not about silly things like plot or storyline, apparently oblivious to the contradiction he was making.

[Draegan]

I was looking for a mix of mythology/science/mystery ending where the two timelines met each other and there was some kind of ending where they either reset and they never crashed, or everyone died, or everything started over again.

I really detested the "everyone goes to heaven except the black people", it's like they weren't even trying.

[Ozzu]

While I did end up liking the sideways flashes because I really liked those characters and wanted them to have the "happy ending", I think this season would have been better if they would have left it off. Just let the island timeline play out and leave the other stuff alone. However, it was cool to see everyone again and get to see reunions for people who I never thought would meet again. So, eh, I dunno.

Writing-wise though? Definitely should have left off the sideways flashes.

I still really enjoyed it though.

[Special J]

I didn't mind the ending.  It didn't blow me away but it was alright.  Sure there were some things that I wanted more of:  Widmore's exit was rather abrupt, I'd have liked more on some characters, more on the nature of the island or the aftermath (guess we're not really meant to know), and I was hoping for one final act of fuckery from Ben.

But after digesting it a bit, I liked how the side-flashes worked out and wrapped up.  Overall I left satisfied.

[Signe]

Maybe my feeling of meh was because I never got quite as emotionally invested or something.  It was pretty good series compared to most others.   Some episodes were absolutely riveting and some I sort of dozed through.  I thought it was inconsistent in that respect.  There were a couple of seasons I thought were mostly crap.

As for the last show (not including the catch up show), it had a great beginning, some tedious middle moments and a very disappointing end.  I enjoyed the symbolism they used, which is something I liked throughout the series.  I loved the little bursts of connections they showed between the characters in and out of the sideways time line (although the whole sideways time line idea could have been better throughout) and how it lead to remembering.   They went overboard with the clips, though.  It was as if they wanted people who were tuning in to the show for the very first time to understand everything that had happened in the last six years.  That's just silly - especially after a catch up show. 

The very end just seemed like an easy cop out to me.  It felt meaningless.  After killing some of the main characters several times during the season, they just kill them again and then bring them back but they're dead?  What?  I thought the glowy cave was very pretty and rather Indiana Jonesish but where the fuck did THAT come from and why did we only know about it a couple of weeks ago?  Suddenly the most important item in the show is brand new!  I guess that's when they thought it up?  I don't need every little thing neatly connected and tied up at the end (although I remember reading that the writers were going to do that) but I would have liked to know what the fuck was up with that giant statue and it's foot, too.  The last twenty minutes or so of this show was a let down.   

I guess we're done with spoiler tags.  Good.

[Samwise]

I'll start listing unresolved questions.

What was up with the Egyptian stuff?
How did Hawking know so much?
Who built the temple and why?
Why did the hatch built in the 1970s use Jacob's numbers for the six remaining candidates in the 2000s?
How did the "normal" people have supernatural abilities (Locke, Desmond, Miles, Hurley, I'm probably missing some)?
Why did the mother's protection "charm" for Jacob and Smokey extend to the candidates?
If Jacob could just come back from the dead by getting his ashes from Hurley, why'd he wait so long to do it?
Why didn't Jack become a smoke monster?
Why would the ultimate source of life and goodness turn someone into an evil smoke monster anyway?
Why did Hawking want to "preserve" the sideways reality?  Was the version of her in that reality even "real" (or was she a figment like Jack's son)?

...etc.

[Samwise]

I really detested the "everyone goes to heaven except the black people", it's like they weren't even trying.

LOL, good point.  They brought back all the white characters that I had totally forgotten the existence of, but no Michael, Walt, or Echo.  Nice.

[Teleku]

I really detested the "everyone goes to heaven except the black people", it's like they weren't even trying.

LOL, good point.  They brought back all the white characters that I had totally forgotten the existence of, but no Michael, Walt, or Echo.  Nice.

Michael is still stuck back on island purgatory (remember:"We're the ones who can't move on").  Once he's moved on from there, I'm sure he'll go to the sideways purgatory, where he'll have to work on "moving on" from there as well.  He's got a lot of bad mojo to work off.   

[HaemishM]

I'll start listing unresolved questions.

What was up with the Egyptian stuff?

Some Egyptians settled there at some point.

How did Hawking know so much?

Sideways Hawking? Because she was dead, just like Jack's dad. Other Hawking? Because she was an Other, an original inhabitant of the island.

Who built the temple and why?

See Egyptians above.

Why did the hatch built in the 1970s use Jacob's numbers for the six remaining candidates in the 2000s?

The Vanzetti equation?

How did the "normal" people have supernatural abilities (Locke, Desmond, Miles, Hurley, I'm probably missing some)?

It's a supernatural world.

Why did the mother's protection "charm" for Jacob and Smokey extend to the candidates?

That was Jacob's "rule" not the mother's.

If Jacob could just come back from the dead by getting his ashes from Hurley, why'd he wait so long to do it?

Jacob's a dick.

Why didn't Jack become a smoke monster?

The smoke monster was only that way because he was exposed to the light through an act of sin (murder). Jack sacrificed himself to keep the light alive, thus there was no evil to latch onto.

Why would the ultimate source of life and goodness turn someone into an evil smoke monster anyway?

Life is ugly and brutal?

Why did Hawking want to "preserve" the sideways reality?  Was the version of her in that reality even "real" (or was she a figment like Jack's son)?

She wasn't ready to move on - she had killed her son in her real life and had not accepted responsibility for it yet. It's the same reason Ben didn't want to leave with the rest of the cast as well. He wanted to make peace with the fact that he'd gotten his daughter killed. Both were happy living with the children whose deaths they caused.

Sorry for the SirBrucing.

[Abagadro]

Rose got to go to Nirvana so at least one black person got in.