Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Tannhauser]

I'm guilty and I'm sure others are, of cheering Stannis on for four years now.  But Stannis is the same man he was in Season Two; a religious fanatic.  We watched him burn his friends at the stake and nail Mel and create a demon baby to kill his baby brother, but we went 'Naw he good. Look, he's a grammar nazi, he's funny!  Look, he shares a tender moment with his daughter, he's sympathetic!' He's not.  I thought he was putting up with the Lord of Light nonsense to further his aims but he really believes, he just doesn't run around like his wife yammering on about it.

He wouldn't have sacrificed his daughter if he wasn't.  He's a contender for the throne who uses blood magic and human sacrifice to get his way.

Fuck Stannis. 

[Rendakor]

I'm still on Team Stannis, at least in the conflict with the Boltons. I never expected him to win in the end, although it would be a nice twist if Dany died and we were left with Stannis as the One True King.

[jgsugden]

Stanislaus believes because of what he's seen. He doesn't have his heart in it. He thinks his destiny and duty is to sit the throne and he'll make deals with any devil to get there. I think he might end up aligned with the forces on the other side of the wall (one way or another).

[eldaec]

So Davos clearly knew what was going on, but Gendry is worth saving while Shireen isn't?

Also Stannis is stuck in the snow but Davos is not apparently?

I get what they were trying to do  but firstly didn't sell the peril Stannis was in, secondly didn't sell why Stannis would believe this might work. So the whole thing came across as just trying to shock viewers for the hell of it, only it wasn't shocking  because of the hamfisted foreshadowing.

Mereen was cool. Wall was cool. Braavos was ok. Dorne was fucking dreadful.

I guess next week we get the Mercy chapter from Winds of Winter, plus the pink letter or equivalent, and Cersei's walk, hopefully Dorne will be put out of its misery. Seems too soon to do the epilogue from Dance.

[Cheddar]

Stanislaus believes because of what he's seen. He doesn't have his heart in it. He thinks his destiny and duty is to sit the throne and he'll make deals with any devil to get there. I think he might end up aligned with the forces on the other side of the wall (one way or another).

He is dead meat.  Pretty sure the fire priestess is on ice team.  Intentionally or not, probably intentional.  Shadow babies, enjoys the cold, firesword with no heat (book)?  Doesn't like onion knight?  

Next book will be thousands dying in the north, hence fat boys trip to south.  Big army for Dany to fight.  Kicker is the fire priest Valarian encounters.  He is all about the heat.  Free ships  plus free priest!

The undead army will charge south building momentum.  Fat boy will return to Kings Landing, Little Finger will be King, Jaime will redeem himself.

Well maybe not Little Finger.  Not sure he is ready for Winter.  Love that guy.

Edit.  Long story short, north getting overran and Vale probably shutting it's gates.  Fuck the south.

[Threash]

I'm guilty and I'm sure others are, of cheering Stannis on for four years now.  But Stannis is the same man he was in Season Two; a religious fanatic.  We watched him burn his friends at the stake and nail Mel and create a demon baby to kill his baby brother, but we went 'Naw he good. Look, he's a grammar nazi, he's funny!  Look, he shares a tender moment with his daughter, he's sympathetic!' He's not.  I thought he was putting up with the Lord of Light nonsense to further his aims but he really believes, he just doesn't run around like his wife yammering on about it.

He wouldn't have sacrificed his daughter if he wasn't.  He's a contender for the throne who uses blood magic and human sacrifice to get his way.

Fuck Stannis. 

He believes it because it's true, not because he's a religious fanatic.  If god came down from heaven and smote your enemies and told you "btw i really do hate gays" you'd be marching with the westboro baptists the next day.

[Thrawn]

Episode was trash.

Didn't need much discussion beyond this.

[apocrypha]

So does Ser Friendzone getting hand-holdy with Danys mean she's gonna get the dragon skin lurgy?

[Cyrrex]

I'm guilty and I'm sure others are, of cheering Stannis on for four years now.  But Stannis is the same man he was in Season Two; a religious fanatic.  We watched him burn his friends at the stake and nail Mel and create a demon baby to kill his baby brother, but we went 'Naw he good. Look, he's a grammar nazi, he's funny!  Look, he shares a tender moment with his daughter, he's sympathetic!' He's not.  I thought he was putting up with the Lord of Light nonsense to further his aims but he really believes, he just doesn't run around like his wife yammering on about it.

He wouldn't have sacrificed his daughter if he wasn't.  He's a contender for the throne who uses blood magic and human sacrifice to get his way.

Fuck Stannis. 

He believes it because it's true, not because he's a religious fanatic.  If god came down from heaven and smote your enemies and told you "btw i really do hate gays" you'd be marching with the westboro baptists the next day.

Hilariously put.  And I agree.  Stannis isn't a fanatic, he has seen all the "proof" (note to self: they might just be tricks) around him of the reality of the God of Fire, and has resigned himself to his fate, at all costs.  He hates it, and he hates himself.  The one thing Melisandre's supposed God has over all the others in this world is that he is demonstrably real.  Or at least, the magic behind the illusion is real.  

Still, I expected Stannis to intervene at the last second.  This was the next tipping point for his quest, and I thought he would get cold feet and spell his own doom.  I guess it happens later, though I cannot imagine what will cause him to balk when burning his own daughter at the stake did not.  Maybe the simple fact that his men might turn against him for this will be enough.

Also, for all of you doing the hand wringing and lamenting the show over the fact that a 12 year-old girl was burned at the stake and somehow that just ruined everything for you, get the fuck over yourselves.  The fake outrage is nauseating.  It made narrative sense for one thing.  And I'll go out on a limb and say that no actual 12 year-olds were harmed during the filming of the show.  I hope Ramsay rapes a pile of dead babies offscreen next episode using Theon's lopped off cock.  IT IS ALL PRETEND PEOPLE.  Fucking christ.

[Tebonas]

I don't think Ser Davros knew, I think Stannis sent him to the wall partly to get him out of the way for the Sacrifice. Nothing in his characterisation makes me believe he would be remotely ok with what happened. That will be the thing that drives them apart forever, and if Stannis survives this siege he will be short a Hand one way or the other.

[eldaec]

I don't think Ser Davros knew, I think Stannis sent him to the wall partly to get him out of the way for the Sacrifice. Nothing in his characterisation makes me believe he would be remotely ok with what happened. That will be the thing that drives them apart forever, and if Stannis survives this siege he will be short a Hand one way or the other.

This would be even worse, it would mean Davos is suddenly an idiot, and his long goodbye that confused Shireen made no sense.

[Abagadro]

He's been worried about her from day one of her being dragged along for the war, so had a general sense of unease. He wanted to be around to make sure she was okay.  That's different than knowing specifically what was about to happen to her.

[eldaec]

Stanislaus believes because of what he's seen. He doesn't have his heart in it. He thinks his destiny and duty is to sit the throne and he'll make deals with any devil to get there. I think he might end up aligned with the forces on the other side of the wall (one way or another).

He is dead meat.  Pretty sure the fire priestess is on ice team.  Intentionally or not, probably intentional.  Shadow babies, enjoys the cold, firesword with no heat (book)?  Doesn't like onion knight?  

My broad assumption is that fire and ice are the same team.

Even if only in the sense that both would kill everything and both are caused by the same thing.

The real other team we know little about is team citadel.

[Tebonas]

The camp was set on fire the night before and Ser Davros had to make a perilious journey to the wall while Shireen was practically defenseless in a camp with unreliant sellswords, a mother that hated her, a at best disinterested father and a pyronymphomaniac religious fanatic.

Of course he was worried. Only an insane person wouldn't be worried in those circumstances.

[Abagadro]

The upcoming battle for Winterfell is now definitely of the Douche v. Turd Sandwich variety.  Maybe deus ex Brienne will swoop in to have some good effect.  At some point there has to be SOME cathartic resolution to some of this shit, otherwise the whole enterprise is just an exercise of artistic sadomasochism.

[eldaec]

I assume the viewer is supposed to root for Sansa and Brienne in the battle of Winterfell, much like the reader cheers for Mance and Theon, or everyone roots for Tyrion and Davos when 2 douchebags go to war on the blackwater.

[Phildo]

Am I the only one that enjoyed the stuff in Dorne this week?  I like Oberyn a lot and I thought him putting his foot down was nicely done.

[Samwise]

Am I the only one that enjoyed the stuff in Dorne this week?  I like Oberyn a lot and I thought him putting his foot down was nicely done.

Doran.  Yes.  He's the best at being a reasonable adult out of anyone in Westeros.

[Phildo]

Whoops, got them backwards.  Thanks!

[Tebonas]

Which means he won't be long for this world, one should never invest himself in rooting for reasonable adults in Westeros.

Also, Doran is countered by everything else in Dorne being tedious to watch.

[eldaec]

Am I the only one that enjoyed the stuff in Dorne this week?  I like Oberyn a lot and I thought him putting his foot down was nicely done.

Yes you are.

Under the circumstances Doran,  Ellaria, Jamie, and Bronn's acting has been solid throughout.

The problem is the story makes no sense and serves no purpose.

[Speedy Cerviche]

The question is what is the point of Dorne getting so much screentime (and POV booktime)? Besides having a cunning and forward looking leader they don't seem to have anything game changing: No heroes, army is significant but not portrayed as particularly powerful, nor are they said to be greatly wealthy, and they don't have a large fleet sitting around. If I had to guess, the one thing they could pull off would be invading and wrecking their neighbours the soft as butter Tyrells whom they apparently dislike, which I guess would be a somewhat significant event.

[Samwise]

No heroes?  You're forgetting The Most Beautiful Woman in the World, and her Hypno-Boobs.

[eldaec]

Unless Doran has either a fake or real Aegon stuffed up his fundament.

In which case Dorne is suddenly relevant even if it appears to have been scripted by a 14 year old.

The reason he is there in the book if to give Aegon an ally. At a minimum I guess next week Doran will reveal how he secretly hearts Dany.

[Cyrrex]

No heroes?  You're forgetting The Most Beautiful Woman in the World, and her Hypno-Boobs.

I'm not convinced her boobs were all that heroic.  I think I will go back and watch scene forty times to be sure.

[Lantyssa]

I think they're trying to show Dorne playing a long game.  Didn't Doran say he believed in 'third chances' as a hint to Ellaria?

[disKret]

I think they're trying to show Dorne playing a long game.  Didn't Doran say he believed in 'third chances' as a hint to Ellaria?

I belive he said he don't belive in third Chance.

[Khaldun]

Dorne doesn't make any sense in the books, either. I think it's Martin just trying to hide the real plot under a shell, sending out narrative chaff, so that he can still pull a surprise! here and there.

[Chimpy]

Dorne doesn't make any sense in the books, either. I think it's Martin just trying to hide the real plot under a shell, sending out narrative chaff, so that he can still pull a surprise! here and there.

Or he has no fucking clue where he is going with the story and just throws shit out there because he can.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Yeah but the showrunners have cleaned up a lot of his dead-end meanderings. There must be something to Dorne if it's made the cut.

[Merusk]

I expect Dorne will be a big player once Dany crosses. Also, Myrcella isn't destined to die offscreen so I think they wanted to introduce her relationship more before killing her, probably shortly after she gets back to KL. (Remember what the witch told Cersi.)

I think they're trying to show Dorne playing a long game.  Didn't Doran say he believed in 'third chances' as a hint to Ellaria?

I belive he said he don't belive in third Chance.

Yes, that's what he said.  That whole segment was probably important for reasons we don't know yet. In the book there was some mention of holding Myrcella up as a candidate for the throne under Dornish law but here? No clue.

[Rendakor]

Myrcella has to rule before she can die. Gold their crowns, gold their shrouds, remember?

[kaid]

I expect Dorne will be a big player once Dany crosses. Also, Myrcella isn't destined to die offscreen so I think they wanted to introduce her relationship more before killing her, probably shortly after she gets back to KL. (Remember what the witch told Cersi.)

I think they're trying to show Dorne playing a long game.  Didn't Doran say he believed in 'third chances' as a hint to Ellaria?

I belive he said he don't belive in third Chance.

Yes, that's what he said.  That whole segment was probably important for reasons we don't know yet. In the book there was some mention of holding Myrcella up as a candidate for the throne under Dornish law but here? No clue.

At this point I expect the only reason the dorne stuff has stayed in is they are going to be one of danny's westeros allies. As tyrion said she will need at least some friends in westeros to do what she needs to do and dorne is likely where that starts.

[HaemishM]

It seemed like a logical conclusion (for a fictional story) of Stannis' gradual fall as he has now sacrificed everything for his quest to become the king. While there might be a "redeeming self-sacrifice" in store for him at the end of his story I wouldn't put it past Martin that he just ends up broken (and dead) without achieving anything to be his legacy.

Let us not forget that Stannis killed his own fucking brother with magic rather than fight a protracted siege. Dude and his daughter wer doomed from the get-go.

[Threash]

It seemed like a logical conclusion (for a fictional story) of Stannis' gradual fall as he has now sacrificed everything for his quest to become the king. While there might be a "redeeming self-sacrifice" in store for him at the end of his story I wouldn't put it past Martin that he just ends up broken (and dead) without achieving anything to be his legacy.

Let us not forget that Stannis killed his own fucking brother with magic rather than fight a protracted siege. Dude and his daughter wer doomed from the get-go.

And wasn't he burning his father in law on his very first appearance? He did kill Renly with magic because Renly had an army about ten times bigger than his though.