Random nerd thread unrelated to orig. topic. Current: Tanks vs Mechs!

[tmp]

I know.  The one time I got to play Rifts I was a baby dragon.  I was actually pretty weak compared to the others, but since I found a gauss rifle during the session and the only attack I made with it popped a cyborg's head off with a really lucky roll, I had fun.  I could see all kinds of abuse possible with a system that combined SDC and MDC though.

... Do i even want to ask how does a baby dragon pull the trigger of gauss rifle? 

[Mrbloodworth]

Good lord, so much rifts hate here. The game was never intended to be balanced except by book. If your GM mixed books, and was simply a by the rules guy (As in , if it dosn't have a chart, you cant do that), yeah i could understand why you would say it was imbalanced. However, if he was worth his salt the mixing would have been considered, and managed...including role playing other alternatives to simply shooting your way out of every situation.

This who "its not balanced" is 100% on the shoulders of your campaign maker, or DM/GM. Typicality you also do not mix SDC and MDC campaigns... But if you do, its a smattering of one or the other, unless your GM thought it was his goal to simply "win" or "defeat" his players, and NOT to tell or create a compelling story.

I have loved rifts for quite a while, yes, its unbalanced, but WHO CARES, like i said its up to your GM to pick and choose whats he will included in any given campaign. The combat is also NOT as tedious as some make it out to be here, in fact DnD has more tedium than Rifts.

Anyway, you guys are welcome to your opinions, i for one have had many great times with the system, and i consider it one of the best. Mainly i ran Robotech, and Basic rifts with the occasional mini-arch using one of the supplement books.

And I am sorry, physics says even Mega Damage stuff can be hurt by things like hitting the ground or getting rocks in a jet fighter's intake.

There is falling damage. The last part depends on your GM.

Then again, according to RIFTS a guy in a 10 foot tall set of power armor can have 770 MDC while Macross/Robotech's MAC 2 Monster weighing in at around 300 tons only has like 425.  In the old 80s version of the Robotech rules it was like 325, so they boosted it a little!   That makes perfect sense.  Giant fuck off walking goddamned Metal Gear is my bukkake bitch artillery robot with 4 howitzers and 6 heavy missile launchers should have less armor and structure than some asshole in a shiny Glitter Boy suit.

Different dimensions, different technology, different metals, Different GAMES ETC...  Take a peak at the conversion book, or run a campaign to upgrade the Robotech stuff to coalition tech... (in fact there is mention of it in the conversion book).

As for the zombies (thats for letting me know there is one now!)

Here is the write up:

Dead Reign™ RPG
– The Zombie Apocalypse

Dead Reign™ is a game of survival, rescue and revenge. Player characters are both the hunted and the hunters as they battle the creeping doom that is the living dead and pray for salvation.
# S.D.C. setting.
# Zombies have taken over the world.
# Zombies control the cities. Humans hide in remote wilderness areas.
# Zombies capture, keep and breed humans in food pens.
# Several different types of zombies.
# Humankind fights to rescue those they can, and destroy as many of the zombie abominations as they can.
# Player characters are ordinary people fighting for their very existence or bent on revenge.
# Is this the end of the world as we know it? Can Earth be reclaimed by humanity?
# Cover by E.M. Gist.
# Art by Nick Bradshaw and Amy L. Ashbaugh.
# Written by Josh Hilden, Joshua Sanford and Kevin Siembieda.
# 224 pages. Cat. No. 230.

Take note, SDC campaign, kevin is last on the writers list. Its your choice if you want to mix it with things for any other book, and/or pull it into rifts itself. Also, a bunch of the Robotech stuff has been getting updates, i think because they have the license again.

[Ratman_tf]

Good lord, so much rifts hate here.

I don't hate RIFTS. I played the fuck out of it when I was P&P gaming. But it took some house ruling to get the rules to not suck suffiently to have fun. It's a great beer & pretzels game because it's so simple and straightforward. In a way, it's like the WoW of paper RPGs. If everybody wanted me to GM, and I didn't have anything ready, I could just whip out the RIFTS books and let them blast away at shit.

If your GM doesn't suck, then your GM doesn't suck, and it don't matter what system you're using. And it's no excuse for the Palladium system - out of the box - sucking donkey balls.

[Mrbloodworth]

Good lord, so much rifts hate here.

I don't hate RIFTS. I played the fuck out of it when I was P&P gaming. But it took some house ruling to get the rules to not suck suffiently to have fun. It's a great beer & pretzels game because it's so simple and straightforward. In a way, it's like the WoW of paper RPGs. If everybody wanted me to GM, and I didn't have anything ready, I could just whip out the RIFTS books and let them blast away at shit.

If your GM doesn't suck, then your GM doesn't suck, and it don't matter what system you're using. And it's no excuse for the Palladium system - out of the box - sucking donkey balls.

Good, i guess we do understand each other then. heh. But i still disagree that the system its self sucks out of the box as you said. But i guess this is where we will just have to differ.

[Lantyssa]

I know.  The one time I got to play Rifts I was a baby dragon.  I was actually pretty weak compared to the others, but since I found a gauss rifle during the session and the only attack I made with it popped a cyborg's head off with a really lucky roll, I had fun.  I could see all kinds of abuse possible with a system that combined SDC and MDC though.

... Do i even want to ask how does a baby dragon pull the trigger of gauss rifle? 

They had the ability to shapeshift into human form for a limited period per day, if I recall correctly.

[Jain Zar]

Good lord, so much rifts hate here.

I don't hate RIFTS. I played the fuck out of it when I was P&P gaming. But it took some house ruling to get the rules to not suck suffiently to have fun. It's a great beer & pretzels game because it's so simple and straightforward. In a way, it's like the WoW of paper RPGs. If everybody wanted me to GM, and I didn't have anything ready, I could just whip out the RIFTS books and let them blast away at shit.

If your GM doesn't suck, then your GM doesn't suck, and it don't matter what system you're using. And it's no excuse for the Palladium system - out of the box - sucking donkey balls.

Good, i guess we do understand each other then. heh. But i still disagree that the system its self sucks out of the box as you said. But i guess this is where we will just have to differ.

In Robotech: Shadow Chronicles there is a man carried rifle that does the same damage as the main rifle on a 30 foot tall Alpha Fighter, and in burst mode the rifle does MORE.
That is Palladium in a nutshell.

[WindupAtheist]

I miss this thread, so...

They're looking for investors! Quick, get in on this winner before it's too late!

Mechanized Propulsion Systems is dedicated to designing, creating, and piloting the first bipedal humanoid anime style mecha in the next 25 years. The MPS Team is a group of individuals who have volunteered their time and resources for the realization of this goal.

We are a group based in Rosamond, California, near the Mojave Spaceport. We have decided to bring to life our dreams of real, working mecha, as seen in Japanese animated works. We propose to complete this task by following a development initiative plan, and using existing and proven technology to develop and meet key items in our agenda.

By using existing technology and developing new mecha technologies based on our functional concepts, our current plans envision a fully completed and operational prototype mecha within a few short years! MPS has been developing pilot control interfaces, creating proof of concept prototypes, and assembling parts since February of 2000. Slowly but surely, one piece at a time, our dream is coming together.

MPS foresees a future where mecha have been adapted to uses in the commercial, industrial, and military defense arena. With a highly modular and adaptable approach to both design and implementation, we have ensured that mecha-tech will make the grade for any situation or use.

They only manage to mention anime in the very first sentence, and the big fat weeaboo factor only goes up when they reference "Japanese animated works" a few sentences later.

[Sophismata]

I... words fail me.

   + 

[Triforcer]

Once Broughden signs off on this, I'm in. 

[WindupAtheist]

Man this site is a fucking GOLD MINE. All their PR appears to consist of going to anime conventions and holding up little toy models of mechs they would like to build if they weren't a bunch of weird deluded supernerds.



Here's an example of what they've got so far. Behold some of what they call "actual mech parts" because apparently they will totally someday be used in a mech.



Their "booth girl" I'm going to link because the picture is kind of huge. I don't want to sound like "that guy" and this chick does have two very large.. uh.. attributes going for her, but c'mon. That's not a booth babe, that's somebody's sister.

This bipedal design is excessively top-heavy!

Oh and then there's their internship program.

MPS is always recruiting actively for a wide range of positions - everything from assembly workers to mechanical engineers and pilots. The company has found and continues to search for team members and interns among experienced craftsmen, technical experts, retired professionals, and even current college students.

Sign up now, and be a mech pilot!

[FatuousTwat]

I can imagine some of my old friends from high school being really fucking excited about that. And me wanting to slap them. Ugh.

[IainC]

I don't know what amused me more; the Lego 'concept shots' or the big pile of I-beams labeled 'mecha legs'.

[Sophismata]

Garriot shoulda put his money into this! Why be the first civilian astronaught, when you can be the first mecha pilot. 

[tmp]

This bipedal design is excessively top-heavy!

It appears well suited for symmetrical docking.

[IainC]

This bipedal design is excessively top-heavy!

It appears well suited for symmetrical docking.

 

That is a classic BOBFOC

[WindupAtheist]

I'd give a pack of dorky college kids like this a pass if they were collecting junk in vain hopes of building a solar-powered car or something else vaguely plausible or useful. But jeez... "as seen in Japanese animated works". Fuck you wapanese scum.

[Yegolev]

How did I miss ten pages of awesome?  Great retitlement, whoever it was.

[Koyasha]

I've seen those guys at Anime Expo.  Sort of.  Never arsed myself to go to their panel or showing or whatever, cause I couldn't be bothered to miss something that might really be interesting.  Each time they seem to claim to have something to show, I talk to someone who went later and there's practically nothing.

[WindupAtheist]

Like I said, if they were being super serious about trying to build something relevant or useful, I could give them a pass even though they're clearly out of their league. By the same token, if they were like "We're gonna build a mech out of junkyard parts because it'll be awesome, woo!" then I could let that slide as well. But these guys have a combination of super-serious attiude and silly objective that makes me hate them.

[UnSub]

I don't know what amused me more; the Lego 'concept shots' or the big pile of I-beams labeled 'mecha legs'.

I laughed and laughed and laughed as I looked through the mech parts. I-beams! So that's what mech development to this point has been missing!

I will completely believe someone if they tell me this is just a drinking club for nerds that needed a project to get a Uni grant. That's a lot more likely than "we will build a working mech".

[Ghambit]

I want one: Biomech Tank

[MahrinSkel]

To be fair, they've also found an easy way to get Speaker's passes to anime conventions.  Which are pretty much Golden Tickets to the better parties (what that would be at an anime convention, I don't want to think about too much).

--Dave

[Merusk]

My understanding is they involve a lot of the hot cosplayers and top shelf booze instead of what you can get a bum to buy you.

[WindupAtheist]

So it's come to this. After everything that's already come before, we're discussing the "in-crowd" of the anime convention circuit. Fuck yes. This is a great thread. I'm excited to be a part of it. Everytime I think we've hit the limits of geekery, we break right through to a whole new level. Let's keep going. I want to look back on the part of the thread where we talked about dorks pretending to build a real-life mech so that they could get into the anime parties with the hot cosplayers, and think "Yeah but that was back before the thread got REALLY nerdy!"

[Merusk]

You know, it's not as effective a derail if you point it out you twit.

[WindupAtheist]

How the fuck do you "derail" a thread like this? This thread hasn't had rails since the second page. It just keeps getting worse and worse (better) no matter what anyone does.

[Simond]

Jesus, fucking Warhammer.

Everytime I think we've hit the limits of geekery, we break right through to a whole new level. Let's keep going.

For the Emperor! 

[Sophismata]

That is so incredibly awesome.

[DLRiley]

For a mecha to be useful it most move at mach 3, fly, and be controlled by thought only. Oh yeah it most have twice the armor of a tank with 3 times the fire power and use 1/3 of the power while being just as easy to repair. When someone manages to build that we'll be so neck deep in nukes, wars will be fought on top of giant radioactive lizards which have wings and breath fire.

[Kail]

For a mecha to be useful it most move at mach 3, fly, and be controlled by though only. Oh yeah it most have twice the armor of a tank with 3 times the fire power and use 1/3 of the power while being just as easy to repair. When someone manages to build that we'll be so neck deep in nukes, wars will be fought on top of giant radioactive lizards which have wings and breath fire.

Yeah, I threw out my toaster when I found out that it couldn't cure leprosy and disprove philosophical solipsism.

[Ghambit]

Ironically, mechs WILL dominate the world... but they'll be small, not big.  e.g. nanites
And in the biomech sense similar, but throw in superbugs too.

There is ONE other inevitability for mechs being used and that's the Singularity.  Once "the machine" gets smart enough, it'll want to walk around... so something like Terminator-tech MAY actually come to pass.  Wtf is a robot really??  It's a damned autonomous MECH.  So it's only natural they'd evolve into something more complex.  If they'd be evolved enough on a wanton level (perhaps emotions), they'll naturally want to mimic humanoid action (even if it's not as efficient)... so you'll get a mech.  Kind of like data trying so hard to do everything "humanlike."  If those autonomous mechs are big enough, they'll inevitably carry PASSENGERS and you'll really have a traditional mech in that sense as well.  And when they go to war?  It's Battletech time bytches!

Furthermore (another piece of the Singularity), once we fully integrate the human mind into the machine we'll routinely transplant either our brains/nervous systems or even simply our entire "beings" into a humanoid construct.  A Golum of sorts.  For all intents and purposes, they'll be mechs... not tanks, or cars, or giant Pleos.  But, full-on walking mechanical humanoids of all shapes and sizes... including the military ones, which will be large and have guns.

Even if it's tough for some of you to fully grasp tech. that far advanced, in the SHORT term we'll have to develop the traditional mech. (the typical anime or Battletech mech) in order to reach that level of "mechtitude" anyways.  But even that by no means will be the end of mech development, as I've already posited.

So IMO, Mechs are inevitable.  And the dorks will have their day in the sun.   

edit:
A tank's biggest boon is infantry... so if mechs fashion themselves after 'noid infantry, then I think it's pretty easy to figure out which is better.   

[Fordel]

You aren't even remotely trying anymore.

[Merusk]

Buh?  The more likely scenario for your autonomous program is that replacement limbs/ body parts are developed to a point you can call people cyborgs.  Then you just go full out and make a body from scratch and insert a brain or consciousness.  My way at least has a practical reason for its initial development.

[Azazel]

thousands of times stronger than steel

Erm, 200 times, according to the bloggo-nonsense. Stronger being the magic word to mean indestructable via epic hardness, rigidity, and an inability to shatter. Diamonds shatter all the time, but this stuff is magic.
If it exhibited the properties described, how would you even put a handle on it? Fail.

Impervious, even to lasers  .

Not to mention, how would you create the blade?

Also.

Mechs are here, and they're taken on scary form!

[schild]

I'm going to go off on a limb and call that "not battlefield ready."