SWTOR

[koro]

Nope, no dual specs.

Which is baffling because they confirmed (at either PAX or Gamescom) that Advanced Class switching will be in, which is the rough equivalent of saying "I'm tired of playing my Hunter today. I'm going to switch him over to a Rogue."

I don't think they will allow you to switch your advanced class (Mercenary to Powertech for BH and vice versa) but they may allow you to have a dual spec within your advanced class.  Say your BH took a healing spec with Mercenary.  They may allow you to have a second spec that is more dps heavy.  At least thats what I'm hoping for.

This is what Bioware has specifically said is going to be done.

In fact, the whole Advanced Class system is kind of dumb. It was dumb in EQ2 and it's dumb here, and I fully expect it to go the same way EQ2's did sooner rather than later.

[eldaec]

People are talking at cross purposes.

Multi-speccing (allowing non-permanent switching of roles/skills like in Rift, EVE, GW or whatever) : There is none in SWTOR.

Respec : Is available, for talent choices and advanced class. It supposedly costs more the later you do it.

[luckton]

Which is still silly.  I don't mind being locked into one advanced class...hell, wouldn't be any different than being locked into one of the classes in WoW.  But allowing me to switch my powers within the confines of my own advanced class at my digression should be in.  Hell, it should be one of those "MMO Standards" at this point.

Let's say I'm a Scoundrel Smuggler.

I like to heal when I'm in groups.  I don't expect to kick out a lot of DPS when I'm the group's healer, so I'll take healing choices.

I like to solo DPS when I'm not.  I don't expect to heal a heck of a lot when I'm soloing/doing my class story thing.

Why does it seem like it takes an act of God to make this happen?  Bliz figured this shit out eventually, Rift made it more robust.  So TOR is going backwards in this regard?   

[Reg]

Seems kind of silly to me too but perhaps they figure that just dragging along a DPS companion is good enough when a healer or tank needs to solo?

[Tyrnan]

I think the reasoning behind it was companions. So if you wanted to solo as a heal spec you wouldn't need to switch to a DPS spec, you'd just whip out a tank/DPS companion and use them instead.

But that was quite a while ago and I know there have been changes to the companions since then so I'm not sure how much that still applies. It also doesn't address the situation of when you're in a group with another heal specced player and having the option to switch to DPS would make more sense. Their stance on this really doesn't make much sense to me at this stage.

[eldaec]

I'd be less bothered by this if the support roles seemed more interesting.

I usually like playing heal/buff/debuff/control. But the control and buff/debuff options seem to be spread around the classes and very limited...

[luckton]

If anything they'll hold true to their word about getting feedback from these beta weekends and get their shit straightened out before launch instead of after.  But then we've always had that hope about every MMO  .

It just makes sense to allow dual-specing nowadays.  We've grown past the days where you had to roll 3-5 characters with each having to specialize in one role so they can have a chance to make it to raid night.  Besides the companion thing, the only evil-logic I can see is that BW 'wants' you role 3-5 characters to fit each role, just for the sake of having you go through 3-5 classes of story and lore to justify all the money they spent for each class.

Also, I will take this time to re-affirm my pox upon you bastards that got to play this weekend.  

[Reg]

It's such an obvious thing to do maybe they plan to do it a few months after release in the first major patch just to make it seem like "Bioware listens!"

[Tyrnan]

The last official statement I can find on that is http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6182908&postcount=684

Summary, since this is a confusing topic:

You can change your skill point distribution by paying credits at a vendor on your capital world. That has not changed.

You may or may not be able to change your Advanced Class, we haven't decided on this one yet. If you can, the cost would be significant. That has not changed.

There is currently no plan to add dual spec (the ability to swap almost instantly between two skill point configurations) for launch. At this point, it seems not necessary for us, but we're not opposed to add it at a later point / patch should we feel that the game would benefit from it.

[UnSub]

If anything they'll hold true to their word about getting feedback from these beta weekends and get their shit straightened out before launch instead of after.

Most betas I've been in at the "we might be launching soon" sees a ton of fanbois rally with, "THIS GAME SO AWESOME LAUNCH TOMORROW" and a bunch of cynics pointing out the various systems that aren't finished / don't make sense / really need more work.

The cynics tend not to be listened to at a stage when the devs really want to get the game launched.

But then SWOR is review-proof and launch-proof - it will get good reviews (bad reviews will be shouted down with "You haven't played the game enough") and it will sell millions of copies at launch. But will it keep players paying $15 a month for years to come? That I'm not so sure of.

[Lantyssa]

Which is still silly.  I don't mind being locked into one advanced class...hell, wouldn't be any different than being locked into one of the classes in WoW.  But allowing me to switch my powers within the confines of my own advanced class at my digression should be in.  Hell, it should be one of those "MMO Standards" at this point.

It's a game modeled after WoW.  The WoW of four years ago.  I'll be surprised if they haven't been too busy and under too much pressure to notice the improvements in the market of the last few years.

[Merusk]

It's such an obvious thing to do maybe they plan to do it a few months after release in the first major patch just to make it seem like "Bioware listens!"

Doing it a few months after release will be too late.  You get one shot these days, because there's new games all the time and you're competing against freemium games as much as other sub games anymore.  You absolutely have to get all the major points right on release.  You can make major tweaks but the big stuff has to be there and working at the very least.  Hot spec-swapping is one of the big things.

[Mattemeo]

Doing it a few months after release will be too late.  You get one shot these days, because there's new games all the time...

Ordinarily, yes. However, this is a Bioware MMO, and they can count on not only player/developer loyalty (providing they didn't burn too many bridges with DA2) and an IP a lot of people are going to forgive missing/unfinished mechanics over. I'm not trying to say it's right for them to ship the game without certain things we as an MMO playing community take for granted or reasonably demand, I'm just saying Bioware will have more credence for getting away with it than anyone besides Blizzard at this point, and that's largely sight-unseen.

[luckton]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Merusk]

8/10 trolling.  I've seen better but I know he's going to get lots of bites.

[Sky]

I'd be surprised if dual-spec doesn't make it in before launch. The wowtards expect it and it's utterly triassic to ignore (even if Rift has moved the goalposts). I don't think the pet system will work out quite as well as they think, especially as it has already gone under several major revisions, at least two this summer (based on Con panels and walkthroughs).

The Advanced Class switching, they said they want in for people who make honest mistakes. Rising cost, and cap the ability to change at level 20 (assuming they figure you know the class enough by then that you've made your decision. I'm ambivalent on AC switching, I think I'm ok with it, though (as outlined above per Ohlen I think SDCC).

You won't get an EQ2 AC revert to a full eight classes, because AC has no (little?) impact on the class story. Doubling the amount of class story is just not going to happen.

[eldaec]

Obvious way to do dual spec would be to give you both advanced classes and allow you to switch skill access as and when you switch weapon.

But I think that's a heavier design effort than is likely in time before launch.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I remember a few years ago when the call was "It doesn't matter if SWG doesn't have X or Y is broken, it's STAR WARS, it'll make millions."

Now the call is "It doesn't matter if SWTOR is like wow without X or that Y isn't working, it's BIOWARE STAR WARS, it'll make millions."

Makes the whole thread really fun, I just love how much weight people put on this IP, when atm Michael bay's transformers is a stronger franchise.

[eldaec]

I strongly suspect that SWG did in fact make millions.

[Lantyssa]

It did well.  It didn't do nearly as well as they wanted.

[Malakili]

I strongly suspect that SWG did in fact make millions.

[Ginaz]

Also, I will take this time to re-affirm my pox upon you bastards that got to play this weekend.  

This weekend?  I've been playing for almost a month now.

[Surlyboi]

I remember a few years ago when the call was "It doesn't matter if SWG doesn't have X or Y is broken, it's STAR WARS, it'll make millions."

Now the call is "It doesn't matter if SWTOR is like wow without X or that Y isn't working, it's BIOWARE STAR WARS, it'll make millions."

Makes the whole thread really fun, I just love how much weight people put on this IP, when atm Michael bay's transformers is a stronger franchise.

Obvious troll is still quite obvious.

[eldaec]

Trolls within trolls...

This entire thread is meta as fuck.

[koro]

http://gbjackson.dswebhosting.net/misc/gmswngw.txt

Here, have some hilarious tl;dr bullshit we can all come together and laugh over.

[palmer_eldritch]

http://gbjackson.dswebhosting.net/misc/gmswngw.txt

Here, have some hilarious tl;dr bullshit we can all come together and laugh over.

He's wrong.

The endgame should allow you to settle down somewhere and start a family, with a child who would be a princess.

You would raise your princess, teach her right from wrong, send her to school, bathe her, clothe her and watch her grow up into a young woman.

What sort of Star Wars game doesn’t have princesses?

[Kirth]

Trolls within trolls...

This entire thread is meta as fuck.

We need to go deeper.

[UnSub]

http://gbjackson.dswebhosting.net/misc/gmswngw.txt

Here, have some hilarious tl;dr bullshit we can all come together and laugh over.

Good thing SWG didn't have any gear issues. 

[luckton]

Trolls within trolls...

This entire thread is meta as fuck.

We need to go deeper.

[Shatter]

End game gearing should be all about how you look, not stats :P 

[eldaec]

In this design, endgame should primarily be focussed on rerolling.

Which means concentrating on new paths and content across the level range, a la CoX.

[Crumbs]

http://gbjackson.dswebhosting.net/misc/gmswngw.txt

Here, have some hilarious tl;dr bullshit we can all come together and laugh over.

It was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced by the realization that they've been waiting 3 years for a clone of a 7 year old game they got tired of 4 years ago   

[Rasix]

We could tell you exactly what the game is again, but then we might not get your next derptastic epiphany in the next few pages.  That stupid "rant" could have been written 4 years ago.

[Evildrider]

Dual spec I see probably coming at some time.

AC switching shouldn't be allowed really, unless as stated, it's kept to a level cap like 20.
AC's aren't the same as switching from Arcane Spec to Frost Spec like a Mage.  It's more like switching from a Mage to a Warlock.

[cironian]

The only good reason I can offer for putting AC switching behind a high barrier (say, a few days of money farming) is that if it's too easy to switch, pretty soon players will end up feeling required to reclass for certain missions, or to join this week's raid.

Apart from that I couldn't care less whether you change your Mage to a Warlock and back every other day. Just don't force me into doing it.