SWTOR

[Sjofn]

Echoing what other people are saying, the WoW raiding scene is mostly made up of what you described, although for some of them you might have to cut out the competent part.

Cut the "competent" and you have mine! 

[shiznitz]

I doubt this is news but

ERTS: Highlights from UBS Conference
􀂄 ERTS CFO presents at UBS Media and Communications conference
ERTS CFO Eric Brown and Vice President of IR, Peter Ausnit, presented at the
38th Annual UBS Global Media & Communications Conference.

􀂄 Star Wars MMO fully expensed, will launch CY11 portion of F12
Responding to a question about growth drivers among digital revenue, EA said that
Star Wars would be a main driver next year. EA noted the game is fully expensed,
as the development has occurred over the past several years. Mr. Brown suggested
investors may see a considerable uptake / step-function as the game launches in the
CY11 portion of Fiscal 2012.

Fiscal 2012 is the 12 months ending March 31, 2012.  CY11 refers to Calendar Year 2011.

[SnakeCharmer]

So, launching March 2011 to December 2011 calender year.  Hasn't that been the estimation for like a year now anyway?  Spring 11?

[Lucas]

My estimation for a release date has always been Cataclysm + 6 months, so that would fall right in the middle of June :P

[Ingmar]

I think closer to fall/winter, personally.

[Reg]

According to the FAQ over on the SWTOR site there's no official release date yet. I don't pay close enough attention to know anything beyond that.

[Ashamanchill]

Am I the only one her who plans to play this just for the Lols? To me this game seems like a bad movie you watch with your friends just to laugh at.

[Draegan]

Am I the only one her who plans to play this just for the Lols? To me this game seems like a bad movie you watch with your friends just to laugh at.

Why would you waste $50-60$ "just for the Lols"?  The game is probably going to be pretty decent, good enough for at least 1 months entertainment.

[Paelos]

I will be playing it in the hopes it fills a niche in my gaming sphere.

[ghost]

I will be playing it in the hopes it fills a niche in my gaming sphere.

What niche?  Coprophagia?

[Cyrrex]

Coprophagia?

Thank you for helping add that colorful word to my vocab.

[Shatter]

lolbad to me is FFXIV bad...or STO bad.  Im hoping / expecting SWTOR isnt quite that extreme. 

[Paelos]

I will be playing it in the hopes it fills a niche in my gaming sphere.

What niche?  Coprophagia?

Now, now. My people fling the stuff, we don't eat it.

[Ingmar]

I will be playing it in the hopes it fills a niche in my gaming sphere.

What niche?  Coprophagia?

Now, now. My people fling the stuff, we don't eat it.

You know, I am guessing I could probably disprove that with some Google/YouTube searching, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Thank you for helping me find the outer limits of my pedantry.

[Lucas]

A new round of previews is going out, based on a few hours experience playing with the Jedi Consular class. Here is the topic on the official forums collecting the various links, so you can go back checking it out from time to time:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=238590


Currently, the most interesting (critical and balanced at the same time) one seems to be (unsurprisingly in a good way, IMO)  Eurogamer's:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-15-star-wars-the-old-republic-hands-on?page=1

What I found most interesting in the above mentioned article, is their take on the "group dialogue" feature, that you are probably already aware of if you have been following the game development:

[Sky]

It's probably the system I am most wary about (other than dikufication; raids and whatnot). On the one hand, it's an mmo, people are broken. It's bound to be filled with grief.

On the other hand, if there is a fairly obvious means to detect one's light/dark side standing, it would be an amazing rp tool, allowing groups to (knowingly or not) rp their character to a limited extent. After all, if Luke, Han and Chewie are forced to group up with Vader for a quest, you've got to know bad things are in store if Vader gets to talk. Or conversely, Vader knows he's probably going to have to put up with some do-goody-good bullshit before he can get back to his kicking of ass.

[Cyrrex]

It's probably the system I am most wary about (other than dikufication; raids and whatnot). On the one hand, it's an mmo, people are broken. It's bound to be filled with grief.

On the other hand, if there is a fairly obvious means to detect one's light/dark side standing, it would be an amazing rp tool, allowing groups to (knowingly or not) rp their character to a limited extent. After all, if Luke, Han and Chewie are forced to group up with Vader for a quest, you've got to know bad things are in store if Vader gets to talk. Or conversely, Vader knows he's probably going to have to put up with some do-goody-good bullshit before he can get back to his kicking of ass.

I know I belong to a segment of the market that doesn't exist, but I LOVE the idea that some random stranger can impact your game that way (as long as it falls short of real griefing).  If I am foolish enough to group with some unknown character who then does something that paints me in a bad light, well, that SHOULD reflect on me to an extent.  That's realistic.  And it sound like the way they are implementing it, it won't exactly break my game, so it isn't realy griefing.  Sounds like a good RP element to me.

Of course, it may play out far different than I'm imagining it.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Can someone explain to me what light/dark points do in a game where you pick right off the bat if you're a sith/jedi?  Can you be like a really NICE sith? Does it allow you to switch factions? The whole concept seems off.

[Reg]

I'd be very surprised if there isn't a mechanism for switching from light side to dark side and vice versa.  That's where a lot of the most star warsy drama lies.

[Cyrrex]

Can someone explain to me what light/dark points do in a game where you pick right off the bat if you're a sith/jedi?  Can you be like a really NICE sith? Does it allow you to switch factions? The whole concept seems off.

At the risk of exposing my nerdliness, the lines between Sith and Jedi are not so black and white in the extended SW universe, especially not at this stage in the timeline.  I wouldn't be at all suprised if they allow for shades of gray....something that fits perfectly into what Bioware has done in past titles.

[Riggswolfe]

Can someone explain to me what light/dark points do in a game where you pick right off the bat if you're a sith/jedi?  Can you be like a really NICE sith? Does it allow you to switch factions? The whole concept seems off.

At the risk of exposing my nerdliness, the lines between Sith and Jedi are not so black and white in the extended SW universe, especially not at this stage in the timeline.  I wouldn't be at all suprised if they allow for shades of gray....something that fits perfectly into what Bioware has done in past titles.

At the risk of exposing my nerdiness I'm going to call horseshit. Shades of grey is fine in their own stuff but Star Wars is black & white and always has been. Vader is not misunderstood, he's evil, and only becomes good again because of his son. The closest to a grey character is Han, and even he is basically a hero in denial. The light/dark points are almost certainly going to be a way to track good/evil. I don't know if it'll lead to faction changing or not but if they have the time I could see them working in fall/redemption stories.

[Cyrrex]

I said extended universe, which is what this game is set in.  It isn't nearly so black and white, especially when viewed from an outsider's perspective...most of whom can hardly tell the difference between Jedi and Sith.

[Riggswolfe]

Edit: Getting rid of weird double post. Sorry about that.

[Riggswolfe]

I said extended universe, which is what this game is set in.  It isn't nearly so black and white, especially when viewed from an outsider's perspective...most of whom can hardly tell the difference between Jedi and Sith.

If you're refering to the tie-in novels and stuff it almost always gets retconned or flat out showing that trying to follow some neutral path leads to a fall. In any case, found some info about the light/dark stuff from a game designer interview.

http://darthhater.com/2010/12/15/interview-daniel-erickson-on-the-jedi-classes/page/2

I'll quote the most relevant bit:

What does it mean to be a Dark Jedi Knight or Jedi Consular?

When you follow the Dark side as a Jedi, what it means is that you've given into your emotions. You gave into the hate, and even the love. One of the things you got to see today with Tython is that there is an entire quest in there to introduce the concept of romance leading to the Dark side. It is absolutely forbidden in the Jedi to get married and to have romance. According to the rules, you can get married with permission, but it very rarely happens and you basically have to prove to them that you don't particularly care about the other person. So it is complicated, and usually done to protect Force bloodlines.

Being a Dark Jedi is obviously very different than being a Sith. A Dark Jedi is a fallen Jedi -- a Jedi who took an easier, faster path. This is not someone who is going to jump over and join the other faction. That is always one of the ones that really surprised people because in the more modern pieces, of course there is a Jedi and a Sith and they are from the same culture. But in this time period, the Empire and the Republic are completely separate.

The example we always use is if you were fighting in World War II, and you sort of went off everything you trained for your morals and ethics as an American soldier, it is very unlikely you would go and join the Nazis. It is much more likely you would torture German people in your basement. You are going to be a Dark influence and choice person on your side. It is the same thing for the Imperial side. The Sith are the people who blame the Republic for chasing them out of the galaxy. Their view on the Jedi is that the Jedi don't even acknowledge their right to exist or live. People who become Light side Sith are people who are trying to preserve the Empire, and be the best for their people. They are people who think, "Hey, maybe just because I have an urge to, I shouldn't actually slaughter everyone and make a big stack out of them and dance on it. Let's just chill out a little bit with this."

Each class sort of takes it a little bit differently depending on their own social and ethical expectations from the class. Obviously, a Dark Jedi Knight tends to be quick to anger and jump into battle; they basically let their warrior side take control of them. A Dark Consular becomes a power grab; the Consular is the person who moves through diplomatic channels. The Consular is a peacemaker. The Consular knows a lot of secrets and a lot of things that could be corrupted very easily. They take very different tracks through their paths.

[Cyrrex]

Hmmm....I don't know if that's all that conclusive.  Anyway, all I was suggesting is that it wouldn't be unusual for Bioware to have different shades, and that EU canon allows for it for the most part.

[Murgos]

If I am foolish enough to group with some unknown character who then does something that paints me in a bad light, well, that SHOULD reflect on me to an extent.  That's realistic.  And it sound like the way they are implementing it, it won't exactly break my game, so it isn't realy griefing.  Sounds like a good RP element to me.

Really, though, you wouldn't group with that person who you suspect is going to do something that penalizes your character.  So, from a resource investment point of view do you spend resources making that portion robust when it's likely to not be used very often?  Or, do you make the penalty fairly invisible and that game play portion fairly anemic so that people can group together and not shit up your boards with emo rage?

I guess what I am saying is you're better off not getting your hopes up.

[Cyrrex]

If I am foolish enough to group with some unknown character who then does something that paints me in a bad light, well, that SHOULD reflect on me to an extent.  That's realistic.  And it sound like the way they are implementing it, it won't exactly break my game, so it isn't realy griefing.  Sounds like a good RP element to me.

Really, though, you wouldn't group with that person who you suspect is going to do something that penalizes your character.  So, from a resource investment point of view do you spend resources making that portion robust when it's likely to not be used very often?  Or, do you make the penalty fairly invisible and that game play portion fairly anemic so that people can group together and not shit up your boards with emo rage?

I guess what I am saying is you're better off not getting your hopes up.

I'm aware that I have an outlier opinion and that it won't likely be how I want it to be (without pissing off most other players).  Because the answer to your first statement is that if I for some reason group with someone I don't know, I would be thrilled to take the consequences...as long as it doesn't completely kill my game.  Penalties are cool, just give me some mechanic to work them off.

[Lantyssa]

KotOR was pretty black and white.  KotOR 2, made by Obsidian not Bioware (Austin), had all kinds of grey.

I much prefer grey, but traditionally the canon sources are black and white.

[Riggswolfe]

If I am foolish enough to group with some unknown character who then does something that paints me in a bad light, well, that SHOULD reflect on me to an extent.  That's realistic.  And it sound like the way they are implementing it, it won't exactly break my game, so it isn't realy griefing.  Sounds like a good RP element to me.

Really, though, you wouldn't group with that person who you suspect is going to do something that penalizes your character. 

<snip>

*cough*Pug*cough*

[Malakili]

I know I belong to a segment of the market that doesn't exist, but I LOVE the idea that some random stranger can impact your game that way (as long as it falls short of real griefing).  If I am foolish enough to group with some unknown character who then does something that paints me in a bad light, well, that SHOULD reflect on me to an extent.  That's realistic.  And it sound like the way they are implementing it, it won't exactly break my game, so it isn't realy griefing.  Sounds like a good RP element to me.

Of course, it may play out far different than I'm imagining it.

That sounds good on paper, but in reality its just a barrier to grouping.  People don't RP in MMOs, even RP communities generally lose most of their playerbase after the first month when they realize the game gives them 0 control over their game world and their stories are just purely text based.  Maybe like 10% of the people who want to RP (myself included in the other 90%) actually have the will to carry on long term with the kind of RP that most MMOs actually allow you to do.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Dark Jedi

 

[Bunk]

Its not that far fetched. Falling to the dark side did not automatically make you a member of the Sith Empire - it just made you bad. I'm sure there are parallels folks in the Politics forum could come up with to explain why Evil Democrats and Good-hearted Republicans are still with their respective parties.

[Ratman_tf]

I wanna be a vampire Dark Jedi. Because that would be cool.

[Shatter]

I wanna be a vampire Dark Jedi. Because that would be cool.

[Sheepherder]

I much prefer grey, but traditionally the canon sources are black and white.

Did you miss the part where Luke walks in the front door of a smuggler's den, force chokes a couple of goons because they tried to block his way, and then mindfucks the majordomo into a situation likely to get him killed, because Han fucked up a job working for a crime lord and paid the price?

That's Badicalthon level evil right there, it even has the fucking insane sidekick characters to get the ball rolling.