SWTOR

[eldaec]

The only things that will change in that combat system before launch are a few animation upgrades, the odd stat tweak, and a massive launch day xp nerf.

I'm not even trying to bitch about this - that's the bioware rpg combat system. All about dem Hotbars.

[Velorath]

To be fair, Bioware (or people who work for them) has essentially invented the lore for everything happening hundreds and thousands of years before Yavin...their Sith were very much armor doting persons.  They guy in the video just made a dumb Vader analogy that he shouldn't have.

Not entirely true.  It was actually Dark Horse comics who first started doing stories in that time period with the Tales of the Jedi comics almost a decade before KOTOR was released (the first storyline was actually called Knights of the Old Republic).

[eldaec]

Also, it's pretty easy to rationalise the jedi armour thing as 'jedi in the film era never had to fight a competent enemy'.

[Cyrrex]

To be fair, Bioware (or people who work for them) has essentially invented the lore for everything happening hundreds and thousands of years before Yavin...their Sith were very much armor doting persons.  They guy in the video just made a dumb Vader analogy that he shouldn't have.

Not entirely true.  It was actually Dark Horse comics who first started doing stories in that time period with the Tales of the Jedi comics almost a decade before KOTOR was released (the first storyline was actually called Knights of the Old Republic).

I posted in full knowledge of that fact, but I don't personally consider it relevant, and I'm pretty sure the Lucas people consider Bioware's stuff to be the relevant canon.  Note that I am also taking Drew Karpryshyn's (spelling) books into account here too....hell, that guy pretty much invented all the Old Republic stuff single handedly.   But that's just my view on it, your point is still a good one.

[Tearofsoul]

Star Wars: The Old Republic shipping after March 2011

[Malakili]

Star Wars: The Old Republic shipping after March 2011

k.

[Stabs]

As expected.

It's important to them to not launch against Cataclysm or anywhere close.

If Cataclysm is November then Q1 2011 is out.

[Shatter]

Star Wars: The Old Republic shipping after March 2011

Clear as mud

[UnSub]

No solid release date set at this point.

[Draegan]

Not only Is Cata coming out in November, you have FFXIV releasing somewhere around there.  Then you also have Telara in 2011 and a small chance of GW2.

It'll be a busy year for expensive MMOGs.

[kaid]

Of those really only cata needs to be avoided like the plague. The new FF mmo may get a lot of people but I don't think its audiance will directly compete vs STOR as much as releasing to close to cataclysm would.

As far as the rift plans of talaran it sounds interesting but I doubt it would be much of a threat to a bioware released MMO.

[Musashi]

Like extra time is a bad thing.

[SnakeCharmer]

I can work on my '69 Boss 302 restoration for the next year, but that doesn't mean it's going to be in any fewer pieces than it is now come Spring '11.

Edit:  Game relevant:  There's a fairly long list of games that spent a long time in development that still turned out like shit.

[Musashi]

Well, compare your list of MMOs that spent too long in development to the list of MMOs that shipped before they were ready and then get back to me.

[UnSub]

Well, compare your list of MMOs that spent too long in development to the list of MMOs that shipped before they were ready and then get back to me.

A MMO can end up falling into both categories, e.g. Fallen Earth.

[UnSub]

Some actual information: SWOR to have advanced classes for each base class.

Sith Warriors choosing between Juggernaut class (tank) or Marauder class (DPS) is the example given. Both advanced classes will follow the same storyline though.

[Malakili]

Some actual information:

Stop derailing the thread.

[schild]

Some actual information: SWOR to have advanced classes for each base class.

Sith Warriors choosing between Juggernaut class (tank) or Marauder class (DPS) is the example given. Both advanced classes will follow the same storyline though.

I see they've learned nothing.

[AutomaticZen]

Some actual information: SWOR to have advanced classes for each base class.

Sith Warriors choosing between Juggernaut class (tank) or Marauder class (DPS) is the example given. Both advanced classes will follow the same storyline though.

Holy shit, look at that talent tree.  It is WoW in Space!

[Draegan]

Well actually the talent trees are more like AOC than WOW.

Anyway I'm not surprised.  It's a typical MMOG staple.  Not sure what they "didn't learn", it's typical D&D character progression; it works.

[AutomaticZen]

Well actually the talent trees are more like AOC than WOW.

Anyway I'm not surprised.  It's a typical MMOG staple.  Not sure what they "didn't learn", it's typical D&D character progression; it works.

Oh, I have no problems with it.  I expect nothing more than WoW + Star Wars + Mass Effect dialogue trees.  Middle of the road I say!

[Slayerik]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Draegan]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I'm going to agree with this though.  The only thing you can say about this game is that by next year it will be releasing about 4 years too late.  A game that doesn't push the measuring stick any further other that "ooh story and voiceover!" and is basically a static DIKU needed to be released in the middle of WOW's 1st expansion.

[UnSub]

One quote from those articles that may haunt BioWare was this:

here's enough content to fill those hours, I'm told. You won't have the time in a single lifetime to discover all the content. Between the two factions, there are no recycled NPCs. It's Knights of the Old Republic 3 to infinity. If you printed out the script and it rained, the Earth would be covered in papier mache. Is big game.

So, anyway, 8 epic class stories, obviously some sort of dark vs light side weighting to results, lots of systems still in flux / undecided yet. And still lacking the main thing that will screw it up: the players.

[Draegan]

Yeah, and it's all static.  If GW2 (or Rifts) is anything close to what they're preaching, all these games will look crappy in comparison.  Big if though.

[Stabs]

One quote from those articles that may haunt BioWare was this:

here's enough content to fill those hours, I'm told. You won't have the time in a single lifetime to discover all the content. Between the two factions, there are no recycled NPCs. It's Knights of the Old Republic 3 to infinity. If you printed out the script and it rained, the Earth would be covered in papier mache. Is big game.

So, anyway, 8 epic class stories, obviously some sort of dark vs light side weighting to results, lots of systems still in flux / undecided yet. And still lacking the main thing that will screw it up: the players.

I think whoever wrote that has no idea how fast players consume content. To be fair we don't read quest texts and skip everything sub-optimal.  However the fact that we haven't explored every last corner won't stop us saying "we're bored, there's nothing to do".

[Hawkbit]

That's why this is all voiced over and you won't be able to skip it.  It will take a lifetime because you'll be made to sit through a story.

[Stabs]

Well in that case we will simply have to have 16 screens and multibox all advanced classes at once.

Then complain that we've run out of content.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If there is no way to "re-spec" your sith warrior from tank to dps than this game has already failed.

[Malakili]

If there is no way to "re-spec" your sith warrior from tank to dps than this game has already failed.

Rollling alts is a viable form of end game, amirite

Seriously though, they just keep veering further and further into no-mans land here.  I just can't bring myself to care remotely about anything they've announced for this game.  The fact that they even HAVE different specializations is enough to turn me way.

[Sky]

To be fair we don't read quest texts and skip everything sub-optimal. 

Right. That's really the point. It's a story-based mmo, and you guys skip the story. So why do you give a shit. GW2 or whatever is on the way.

SWTOR is looking like a pretty decent mmo for players like me, casuals who like to actually read the story. The gamble is that there are enough players like me in the mainstream to make it viable. Because there sure isn't in the mmo-space, it's been crafted into a heavy majority of achievementards. Hell, gaming in general is pushing achievementardation (100% achievements? That's just silly, achievement tracking is there to see how you played the game naturally, not as a punch list of what to do!).

Anyway, don't be offended by my usage of tard, it's a viable gameplay style (even if I don't get it), it's just not one that seems to be catered to with SWG (yay). It just saddens me to see so many people who have been trained by poor game design that it's the basic vocabulary now and trying to push the niche fringe into the mainstream.

[Kageru]

Actually the argument is more that story driven games best suit a single player experience. The ability to combine a personally driven experience in a shared context still remains to be proven in action. Both that it is possible and a good idea / valid use of resources.

... and part of the reason we don't read the story is because "In Guild Wars 2, our event system won't make you read a huge quest description to find out what's going on. You'll experience it by seeing and hearing things in the world. If a dragon is attacking, you won't read three paragraphs telling you about it, you'll see buildings exploding in giant balls of fire, and hear characters in the game world screaming about a dragon attack.". WoW believes the same. Though of course in SWTOR it's being forced to sit there and have the text read at you.

[UnSub]

If we all wish hard enough, Tinkerbell will come back to life too.

[Lantyssa]

Hell, gaming in general is pushing achievementardation (100% achievements? That's just silly, achievement tracking is there to see how you played the game naturally, not as a punch list of what to do!).

They get an achievement for convincing developers to make all games to their liking.

[Unique Snowflake] - You're special, just like everyone else.

[Lucas]

"Advanced Classes" system now got a page of its own on the official site:

http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes

There is also a new developer blog, written by Lead Writer Daniel Erickson, called "Creating Worlds", taking the recently announced world of Voss as an example:

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100514_001