SWTOR

[Velorath]

The funniest part of them jerking off over the amount of voiceacting SWTOR is going too have is that a majority of the people who play the game aren't going to give 3/5ths of a shit about it.

"Why is this faggot talking? What do I click so I can go kill stuff and collect loot?"

Gee, you make that audience sound like such a pleasant bunch, it's a shame to have a developer who isn't catering to them this time around.

Did f13's tagline change to pointlessly cynical commentary when I wasn't looking, or do people here really want to start championing the L.C.D. as the audience developers should be targeting?  I mean, I don't know if this game will be any good or complete and utter shit, but at least criticize it based on your own opinions rather than pretend you actually care how the average MMOtard (you know, the people most of us switch off general chat to avoid) will feel about it.

[Oban]

Velorath, think about replay value, leveling alts and having to wait to hear a quest giver for the second (third, fourth, fifth...) time.

[Merusk]

Voice overs you can't click through suck no matter the genre. I read 3-4 times faster than the voice actors deliver their lines.  I don't give a rats ass about Liam Neeson being my dad.. I already read what he's got to say, let me get on with it.  It's not a movie, there's little drama in the actual delivery and even if there was it's still canned dialogue.  There's no interaction other than canned lines being read at you, because you can't talk back.    It's even worse when you're going back to an NPC frequently and they have some 3-4 line "Oh hey how are ya there.  How's things been doing for you" speech when you already know all their dialogue options and just want to buy/ sell some shit.

Civ 4 had it right for how I like hearing voices in games.  Just a small flavor blurb delivered pretty quickly.  Anything else and I'm frustrated at the interruption to my gameplay.

[SnakeCharmer]

Velorath, think about replay value, leveling alts and having to wait to hear a quest giver for the second (third, fourth, fifth...) time.

Supposedly, no class will have the same content as the others.  So while you might have interactions with the same NPC, the quest/storylines from each are supposed to be unique to the class.

[Lantyssa]

I managed to play both KotOR and Mass Effect's full game three or four times without wanting to rip my ears off.  With branching stories and each class having a completely different story, repetition isn't something I'm worried about.

Since the dialog wheel looked almost identical to Mass Effect's, it'll probably let you choose an answer as soon as you want.  Y'all are making much ado about nothing.  Have a wash and get the sand out.  Yeesh.

[Koyasha]

In a way, I would prefer if they did force you to listen to the dialogue by not including the text, and not being skippable.  I'm sure it would irritate me on occasion, but overall I think it would make it so everyone has some level of understanding of the world, what they're doing and why they're doing it.  And it would prevent the 'hurry hurry' where people are pressured to skip by even if they want to read/listen.

[Hindenburg]

In a way, I would prefer if they did force you to listen to the dialogue by not including the text, and not being skippable. 

Yeah, it's not like foreigners tend to have a far easier time reading english than hearing it, or anything. Also, those deaf players? FUCK THEM IN THEIR ASSES.

[Lantyssa]

Earholes.

[Lucas]

I have no problem with the approach they are taking, but I also liked Guild Wars a lot and I always play on roleplaying servers...Oh, and I always read quest texts, dialogues and whatnot.

Yeah, in other words everything the majority of MMO (moooo)ers don't do these days (umm, maybe they never did, if I think about it :P)

[Velorath]

Velorath, think about replay value, leveling alts and having to wait to hear a quest giver for the second (third, fourth, fifth...) time.

I think there's more replay value in going through different class stories, or even doing a lot of the same quests but choosing different dialog options, than there is in just buckling down and grinding through all the quests again.  I mean, do you really think people actually look forward to leveling alts from 1-80 in WoW or something (especially once you get out of each race's starting zone, assuming you hadn't played a character of that race before).

[Ashamanchill]

Civ 4 had it right for how I like hearing voices in games.  Just a small flavor blurb delivered pretty quickly.  Anything else and I'm frustrated at the interruption to my gameplay.

Leonard Nemoy FTW!

[Margalis]

My problem with the voice stuff is not that it exists but the emphasis being put on it while there is zero emphasis on the actual gameplay.

The message seems to be that the game is a completely standard MMO with abolsutely nothing new to offer save some production bells and whistles. I don't understand how they can do all these announcements and videos and still not have revealed a single thing about the gameplay that makes it at all interesting or different from what was available in 2003.

[Velorath]

My problem with the voice stuff is not that it exists but the emphasis being put on it while there is zero emphasis on the actual gameplay.

The message seems to be that the game is a completely standard MMO with abolsutely nothing new to offer save some production bells and whistles. I don't understand how they can do all these announcements and videos and still not have revealed a single thing about the gameplay that makes it at all interesting or different from what was available in 2003.

Given that you're the guy that quit KotoR after a half hour of playing, I'm going to guess that SWTOR is not for you.

[SnakeCharmer]

Well, the gameplay in KOTOR sucked.

The story was good, sure.  Combat?  Not so much. 

If KOTOR had Jedi Knight combat, it would have been awesome.

[tmp]

Isn't KotOR combat system pretty much d20 with lightsabers? So i'd guess it can suck for an action junkie but less so for people who are more into traditional rpg experience...

[CmdrSlack]

Have a wash and get the sand out.  Yeesh.

Thanks! That's an almost worksafe way to tell someone they have a sandy/ouchy vagina. And at my place of work, well, that's a handy thing to have.


As far as whether SWTOR will innovate or not...we'll see. If they just did "Star Wars MMO done right," I'd at very least finally pony up the dough to build a new computer so I can play it. Hell, I bought a new machine for the SWG release, it's about time I sunk money into hardware for a Star Wars MMO.

[UnSub]

I'll repeat:

 - BioWare is known for delivering weak-ish game mechanics but stronger storylines than other developers.
 - SWOR will be a massively single-player game, probably most similar to DDO in the way you enter specific instanced areas to progress a quest. You can bring along a team with you, but given the team decisions will ultimately impact on your character's personal karma score, random PUGs will be out for any player who cares about character.
 - It will be hugely successful at first, but how long that success lingers depends on some other decisions completely unrelated to anything BioWare has announced yet.
 - MMO players, on the whole, don't care about story that much. Especially long flowery speeches. But they're the ones most likely to pay a longer-term sub fee. Those players who like story? They'll play for a while, but cancel when they've reached the end of the storyline. Maybe BioWare will go down the Guild Wars "buy each chapter" route. I hope so. I want to see the forums scream. 

It's going to be an interesting title to see released and I'm sure I'll play it. But I do wonder what long-term impact it is going to have on MMOs and I don't think it is going to change much. The major interest in this title is "Star Wars done right" - if BioWare was releasing its own custom IP then the same level of excitement wouldn't exist.

[Velorath]

- MMO players, on the whole, don't care about story that much. Especially long flowery speeches. But they're the ones most likely to pay a longer-term sub fee. Those players who like story? They'll play for a while, but cancel when they've reached the end of the storyline. Maybe BioWare will go down the Guild Wars "buy each chapter" route. I hope so. I want to see the forums scream. 

Microtransactions.  Riccitiello pretty much said it himself although he backpedaled a bit later and said that no business model has been announced yet.  The days of MMO devs trying to make their livings solely off the obsessive player-base that is willing to commit to a game for years on end are coming to a close.

[Ratman_tf]

Microtransactions.  Riccitiello pretty much said it himself although he backpedaled a bit later and said that no business model has been announced yet.  The days of MMO devs trying to make their livings solely off the obsessive player-base that is willing to commit to a game for years on end are coming to a close.

Lovely.

[Velorath]

Lovely.

As long as microtransactions are just for cosmetic shit, I'm perfectly ok with it if other people want to help subsidize my playtime by spending money on pointless stuff.  I'm also ok with buying content packs like EQ II has.

[DLRiley]

Microtransactions.  Riccitiello pretty much said it himself although he backpedaled a bit later and said that no business model has been announced yet.  The days of MMO devs trying to make their livings solely off the obsessive player-base that is willing to commit to a game for years on end are coming to a close.

Micro transactions are pretty much keeping this genre from caving in on itself. Mmo devs are basically gambling when they expect people to pay a monthly fee for their game, as oppose to every other game out there. I see mmo devs taking advantage of their super obessive player-base by charging a monthly fee and having an extensive list of things to purchase via micro transactions. While devs rely can't rely on holding a large number of subscribers, milking the ones that stay is probably the feature.

[UnSub]

Oh, I'm absolutely certain that EA / BioWare will be charging for downloadable extra content. I'm just wondering if they will also be charging a monthly fee or if they will sell the box, then sell extra expansions with more 'story'. I'm expecting both.

The extra fun thing with all of this will be that due to the extra voiceover work, developing new story content is going to take a bit more time. Sure, the time is more in the writing than in the recording of the performance, but it is all extra logistics that will slow down the process. Plus if during beta testing it is found that one part of content isn't very fun (or really badly bugged, or suffers a lot of negative player feedback, or is highly exploitable) and requires extensive reworking, all the voice content then needs to either be shoehorned as is into the reworked section, edited back to better fit the revised version or re-recorded to suit. You can't just change the text - you've got to change the voice as well.

New story content in SWOR can't rely on a new story just being written up - it has to be written, approved through BioWare's processes, approved through LucasArts' processes, content developed, voice recorded, go back through internal approval, get alpha tested, get beta tested, get fixed, maybe a new voice recording session and then launched. As such (and I'm sure that the first few releases post-launch will have some story content held back to ensure they can keep people paying) I can see a lot of potential for the time taken between story patches to drop off while non-story patches will start to dominate.

[gryeyes]

Aesthetic only additions? Completely acceptable, anything below expansion level I tend to find a complete scam. Mass Effect "expansion" was insanely anemic and lacking. If aesthetic bullshit works i have a hard time believing a major publisher wont reduce the content lower and lower to maximize the raping, so i tend to vehemently oppose it.  Try to horse armor me and i will despise you for life.

[Velorath]

Aesthetic only additions? Completely acceptable, anything below expansion level I tend to find a complete scam. Mass Effect "expansion" was insanely anemic and lacking. If aesthetic bullshit works i have a hard time believing a major publisher wont reduce the content lower and lower to maximize the raping, so i tend to vehemently oppose it.  Try to horse armor me and i will despise you for life.

Thing is, it's always up to you to decide what is and isn't worth your money.  A lot of people like to get into a rage about DLC, when it's a lot easier to just not buy shit that you don't think is worth it.

[Triforcer]

Me no get the rage.  That video excited me.  Its an MMO, what did people expect with the UI and interface and style of fighting?  Lightsabers have to one hit everything?

My original complaint from last October remains:  this probably isn't really an MMO.  Everything will be super-instanced up the ass.  At MOST, you will see other players (who aren't friends) at the auction house and in instanced BGs. 

[eldaec]

Hellgate : Coruscant, basically.

[gryeyes]

Thing is, it's always up to you to decide what is and isn't worth your money.  A lot of people like to get into a rage about DLC, when it's a lot easier to just not buy shit that you don't think is worth it.

One can easily accomplish both with minimal strain.

[Lucas]

High-res, downloadable version is now available in MOV and WMV (about 210MB...Go back to the original documentary link and click on the arrow thingy, in case you didn't know). Much better to look at, with ability tooltips and other stuff now actually readable.

[Senses]

If it does turn out to be Hellgate, but with an amazing story arc and the everpresent IP, StarWars, won't it still be a collosal failure?  Can that whole system of wrapping a single player game into a Multiplayer package really work?  My vote is no.  But I guess if they have already decided on the microtransaction model then they know this too.

[Phunked]

You get into MMOs for the story/art/IP/new shiny.

You stay because of the people you meet. You think any of the people I play WoW with give a flying fuck about Arthas? We're there because we've played with one another for like 4 years now, gotten to know each other, etc. That's why MMOs fail -  when you're on the fence and your friends quit, you're pretty much done for.

Not having a MMO experience where you're exposed to a lot of people and can meet new friends (cough dead servers, highly instanced crap) is a surefire way to fail

[Lantyssa]

Yeesh.

Plenty of people like single-player games.  A large number are fine playing with just their own group of friends.  Some need 40+ people nearby to feel fulfilled.  None of these groups is small (though I'd argue the latter is relatively tiny in comparison.)

As long as you can play with your friends and chat with your guild, it'll be fine as far as the social aspects go.  Guild Wars is always busy when I log in.  I can hop to any city or outpost and people are there.

Now if there is a $15 monthly charge, not so much.  It's one more barrier to keeping people around.  Current indications are it will not be.

[Samprimary]

My original complaint from last October remains:  this probably isn't really an MMO.  Everything will be super-instanced up the ass.  At MOST, you will see other players (who aren't friends) at the auction house and in instanced BGs. 

Given the social dynamics of MMO's and the way the playerbase relies upon them, that's a straight-up ticket to failure if it turns out actually like that.

After Hellgate, nobody's itching for another Massively Singleplayer experience.

[Hindenburg]

After Hellgate, nobody's itching for another Massively Singleplayer experience.

Fallout 3.

[SnakeCharmer]

Fallout 3 didn't have MMO attached to it.  It was always billed as a solo experience. 

SWTOR is being billed as an MMO but insofar has shown nothing mmoishness about it.  I actually think the angstyteethgnashing that's going to come about from SWTOR is going to make the NGE fallout very, very minor.  The locked 100 page thread in the graveyard is going to be small potatoes.

[Phunked]

Yeesh.

Plenty of people like single-player games.  A large number are fine playing with just their own group of friends.  Some need 40+ people nearby to feel fulfilled.  None of these groups is small (though I'd argue the latter is relatively tiny in comparison.)

As long as you can play with your friends and chat with your guild, it'll be fine as far as the social aspects go.  Guild Wars is always busy when I log in.  I can hop to any city or outpost and people are there.

Now if there is a $15 monthly charge, not so much.  It's one more barrier to keeping people around.  Current indications are it will not be.

Compare that with

My original complaint from last October remains:  this probably isn't really an MMO.  Everything will be super-instanced up the ass.  At MOST, you will see other players (who aren't friends) at the auction house and in instanced BGs. 

Given the social dynamics of MMO's and the way the playerbase relies upon them, that's a straight-up ticket to failure if it turns out actually like that.

After Hellgate, nobody's itching for another Massively Singleplayer experience.

One of you has to be wrong, right?