SWTOR

[Evildrider]

The Lady inquisitor is such a snarky bitch in the face of all this 'ultimate dark side power' I can't help but laugh.

I do agree with this, I played a lady Twi'lek and I had fun playing her in total bitch mode. 

I mean more the playstyle of the class.  I guess it was cuz it kind of reminded me of Arcane Mage but with Lightning.

[eldaec]

In fact, I can't think of any two people across 6 films who share a surname except for the fetts, and possibly Anakin and his mum (if she is ever given a surname?)

[Fordel]

House Organa?

[Evildrider]

In fact, I can't think of any two people across 6 films who share a surname except for the fetts, and possibly Anakin and his mum (if she is ever given a surname?)

If you move into the EU it's like a Solo-Skywalker fuck-fest of people.  Even then Leia would still be considered a Skywalker Legacy as would all her children.

[Fordel]

The Lady inquisitor is such a snarky bitch in the face of all this 'ultimate dark side power' I can't help but laugh.

I do agree with this, I played a lady Twi'lek and I had fun playing her in total bitch mode. 

I mean more the playstyle of the class.  I guess it was cuz it kind of reminded me of Arcane Mage but with Lightning.

I played the Assassin up to 16 ish or so, seemed all right. My goal was to make a lady darth maul and I succeeded.

[Mosesandstick]

In the build I played only gold bosses and a few gold mobs would be a challenge 1:1.

[Pendan]

You have to really like the story in order to enjoy this game. The story is not optional. It is mandatory. You can’t get off the starting world without doing the class story. You can’t get off the next world (the home world) without doing the class story. In WoW, LotRo, Fallen Earth, and Rift I have tried to level a character without ever killing things. It was slow but possible. It is impossible in SWtoR.

You also have to do the side questing to get enough exp to continue the class story and that means repeating the same quests with all your characters on the same side. The starting world is shared by two classes with the other two classes on another world. At level 7 or 8 you will be able to leave that world through your class story and you could go to the world the other two classes started on but none of the quests are available even though most are not class specific. So from about level 8 on everyone shares the same non class specific quests. At release of WoW and LotRo they had enough quests that it was very hard to do every quest without out leveling them and turning to 0 exp grey quests. WoW and LotRo of today have 3 or more times the quests needed to level up. I got to level 20 in SWtoR doing every quest available except the group quests on the starting world, home world, and third world with none of them grey.

They gave us high level characters to test out. The only thing I did with mine was test out the space combat. I was able to complete all the space mission in less than 2 hours and they were highly repetitive among them and I can’t imagine enjoying doing them over and over.

I hope they have done something about handling large numbers of people doing the same quests. The way things worked a couple months ago if had more than 5 people in the area many quests became very frustrating while at the same time if you were alone in an area all the trash mobs were frustrating.

I only went into a PvP battleground once at level 12. It appeared I was fighting characters over level 40 with my characters health increased but none of the skills from higher levels. I was never interested in the rest of the game enough to get back to trying PvP more.

After they wiped my characters the first time (which I think they did every 6 weeks in beta), I decided I really did not like the Star Wars story enough to continue playing. It appears in Star Wars every couple thousand years the same things happen with the same technology level and the universe is stagnant. Glimpsing through the time line on one site the only thing that might interest me is when the anti-technology, living weapons race attacks.

All that said, I can’t really say it is a bad game. Combat works but is too similar to other games for what I want. Two of the classes have a mechanic for using cover that is not in other MMORPGs I have played but I found I did not enjoy that type of play. Your first companion gives a huge boost to ability to solo content. I liked being able to empty my grey items in inventory without going back to town by using the companion. The game is highly “polished” and I am sure many people will be mesmerized by the cut scenes and think it is the best game ever. I don’t see long term appeal for the game.

[Fordel]

Gold's just had shitloads of HP, they weren't actually hurting me in the builds I was playing. Silvers were taking me to half health at times, and this is as a Tanking Trooper with a Healing Companion in tow. I was watching DPS Jedi's and Smugglers drop like FLIES.

[Viin]

Who the heck tries to level without killing things? What are you, a pacifistic?

Seriously, DIKU MMO == combat. If you don't like it, go play Puzzle Pirates or be a merchant in EVE.

[Evildrider]

Who the heck tries to level without killing things? What are, you a pacifistic?

Seriously, DIKU MMO == combat. If you don't like it, go play Puzzle Pirates or be a merchant in EVE.

That and he complains about story and that's like the big selling point for the game.

[koro]

Gold's just had shitloads of HP, they weren't actually hurting me in the builds I was playing. Silvers were taking me to half health at times, and this is as a Tanking Trooper with a Healing Companion in tow. I was watching DPS Jedi's and Smugglers drop like FLIES.

Golds in group missions are horrible sacks of hitpoints. It's a little better this build, but oh god when it happens it's horrible.

The boss of one of the early teens Coruscant group missions (Trouble in Deed) is insanely hard to beat with a balanced melee/ranged group while being utterly trivial if most of your group is ranged.

Basically, to anyone who hasn't played the game or watched videos yet, that whole talk from when they showed off the game a lot the past couple years about "we don't want players sitting there whacking on a single enemy because it's boring and unheroic"?

Yeah, complete bullshit.

[Paelos]

You have to really like the story in order to enjoy this game. The story is not optional. It is mandatory. You can’t get off the starting world without doing the class story. You can’t get off the next world (the home world) without doing the class story. In WoW, LotRo, Fallen Earth, and Rift I have tried to level a character without ever killing things. It was slow but possible. It is impossible in SWtoR.

I don't often say someone's playstyle is wrong. But dude, your playstyle's wrong.

You're watching a football game and complaining that it's not ballet.

[Furiously]

As someone who borrowed the account of a full-time tester, I see a lot of issues at launch. The competition for mobs is going to be horrid. (Group up!)

Characters still seem to be getting "stuck" either losing all their quests or unable to log in.

Space combat is basically....unfun. You play gunner to your robot driving the ship like a blind epileptic.

Re-playability for classes that start on the same planet is a bit painful. (I did it with IA and Bounty Hunter).

They don't seem to be at bug squash stage, they seem to be at "lets change this system" stage.

If you forget to click on the speeder or binding terminals... you are going to have to do a lot of walking.

Positives: Most classes are pretty fun to play.

[Nevermore]

Who the heck tries to level without killing things? What are, you a pacifistic?

Seriously, DIKU MMO == combat. If you don't like it, go play Puzzle Pirates or be a merchant in EVE.

That and he complains about story and that's like the big selling point for the game.

I'm hoping the story driven aspect of the game causes most of the more mouth-breathing annoying WoW idiots to become frustrated and/or bored enough to quit, thus elevating the overall player base.  Of course, I also hope a rainbow forms at my apartment and a pot of gold appears in my living room.

[Fordel]

Random info:

Companion Characters are easily one of the better things about this game. It's like having an old DaoC assbot without having to pay for an extra account. They aren't just warlock pets or whatever, they are significantly more in depth and useful.

Like, my Trooper Tank without my little healing friend following me around, is not a fun class to play solo, the end. With my little buddy in tow, I haven't felt that self sufficient in a MMO since DaoC and my Warrior + Shaman assbot.



Mobs work a little differently then what I am used too in most other MMOs. Firstly, instead of 90% of them being melee mobs, it's a much more even split, 50/50 between melee and ranged. It might even favor range, I don't have exact figures, just what I see while playing. Being able to 'herd' mobs is much more important in this game as a consequence and characters are well equipped to do this for the most part.


There are three general tiers of mobs. Weak/Standard, Silver Elite and Gold Elite (which further increases into bosses and world/raid bosses). Weak/Standard mobs come at you in packs of 3+ and you are easily able to handle these packs, as these mobs have shitty HP and low damage. Lots of class abilities are also CC on these weak/standard mobs.

Sticky grenade for example, will cause a weak/standard mob to PANIC, essentially stunning them in place until the grenade goes off. Once the grenade goes off (in about 4 seconds), the explosive force will knock all the weak/standards in the radius on their asses, giving some more CC effect. Put the grenade on a silver/gold, it's just doing it's damage with no secondary effect.


It makes mowing through packs of these trash mobs really fun, as you send them flying and tumbling and general owning their faces like a boss.





Everyone get's a rez, everyone can just rez themselves, and every graveyard if you decide to not rez has a vendor that sells useful medpacks and stims (ie: healing and buffing potions).

Hearthstones will let you heath to ANY bindpoint you've discovered.



Space Combat is Starfox, it's something to do to break things up for a change. It's also good XP, so if you end up like a few ticks away from a level and want to ding before you hit the next planet.

[koro]

Space combat also used to be fairly decent money (and oh god you need a lot of money) until they removed cash rewards for it this build.

I could rant for an hour about the low-level money sinks and why they're awful, though.

[Evildrider]

I'm hoping the story driven aspect of the game causes most of the more mouth-breathing annoying WoW idiots to become frustrated and/or bored enough to quit, thus elevating the overall player base.  Of course, I also hope a rainbow forms at my apartment and a pot of gold appears in my living room.

We can only hope.  

[Tyrnan]

Yeah but Vader didn't go round calling himself Darth Vader-Skywalker  

Yeah he had no last name.  Neither did Darth Maul, Darth Cadeus, Darth Bane, etc.  

I know, I wasn't really being serious. In fact, I wouldn't even mind having a pair of characters that were related but on different sides as long as it was my choice to make. It's just having all my character forced into being part of the same family I find a bit heavy handed. Hell, if they just left the legacy system as it is and gave us a normal surname too I'd be happy.

[Fordel]

Who the heck tries to level without killing things? What are, you a pacifistic?

Seriously, DIKU MMO == combat. If you don't like it, go play Puzzle Pirates or be a merchant in EVE.

That and he complains about story and that's like the big selling point for the game.

I'm hoping the story driven aspect of the game causes most of the more mouth-breathing annoying WoW idiots to become frustrated and/or bored enough to quit, thus elevating the overall player base.  Of course, I also hope a rainbow forms at my apartment and a pot of gold appears in my living room.

Prepare to have those hopes dashed. This playerbase is going to make you long for the days of WoW-Tards.


I have seriously never encountered a dumber playerbase. It's only going to get worse once everyone gets to play for real.



-edit-

Yea, things start to cost lots and lots of money, REALLY FAST. They probably need to fuck with that some more.

[Evildrider]

Space combat also used to be fairly decent money (and oh god you need a lot of money) until they removed cash rewards for it this build.

I could rant for an hour about the low-level money sinks and why they're awful, though.

At least they nerfed slicing, otherwise everyone would have had it.  The money that put out was ridiculous.

[Fordel]

Everyone having the same last name doesn't bother me. How many of you can trace your ancestors back to one Scottish clan of sheep thieves or whatever.

[koro]

Space combat also used to be fairly decent money (and oh god you need a lot of money) until they removed cash rewards for it this build.

I could rant for an hour about the low-level money sinks and why they're awful, though.

At least they nerfed slicing, otherwise everyone would have had it.  The money that put out was ridiculous.

They money it puts out is still ridiculous. What they nerfed were the big payouts that you'd sometimes get; in exchange, they more or less evened out how many credits you get from a box per tier so you'd get a consistent amount each time. I made around 12k credits/hour a week ago just running around Coruscant hitting up boxes people left behind because they heard slicing got nerfed.

[Fordel]

I went BioChem/BioAnalysis and was pleased with it. It's basically Space Alchemy 

[01101010]

My only real irritation with the gameplay so far is playing a juggernaut and trying to play it as a tank. Basically you can't, for 4 to 6 levels. You get access to heavy armor, a shield offhand that does not work till you get the ability to use it...in 4 levels. No threat builder, no taunt, nothing tanky about it in anyway. This comes directly after having to make a character changing choice at the trainer to get your AC. Great, now I am in the heavy armor tank role and oh look,  my first dungeon I can start learning how to tank. Nope... you are poor man's dps tag-along till 14. Not one single measly tanking ability. Nothing like waiting for the fun.

Other than that, I haven't had a weekend of naps only in quite some time, so I'd say it wins for me.

[Fordel]

My only real irritation with the gameplay so far is playing a juggernaut and trying to play it as a tank. Basically you can't, for 4 to 6 levels. You get access to heavy armor, a shield offhand that does not work till you get the ability to use it...in 4 levels. No threat builder, no taunt, nothing tanky about it in anyway. This comes directly after having to make a character changing choice at the trainer to get your AC. Great, now I am in the heavy armor tank role and oh look,  my first dungeon I can start learning how to tank. Nope... you are poor man's dps tag-along till 14. Not one single measly tanking ability. Nothing like waiting for the fun.

Other than that, I haven't had a weekend of naps only in quite some time, so I'd say it wins for me.

That's a problem for all the tank specs, something that we've bitched about for builds now. You don't get your tanking stance/buff till like 4-6 levels past 10. Specifically the shield generator thing doing nothing for 4 levels bothers me, because if you don't read the tooltips in your future abilities, you'll have no idea why your shield generator is useless.

[koro]

My only real irritation with the gameplay so far is playing a juggernaut and trying to play it as a tank. Basically you can't, for 4 to 6 levels. You get access to heavy armor, a shield offhand that does not work till you get the ability to use it...in 4 levels. No threat builder, no taunt, nothing tanky about it in anyway. This comes directly after having to make a character changing choice at the trainer to get your AC. Great, now I am in the heavy armor tank role and oh look,  my first dungeon I can start learning how to tank. Nope... you are poor man's dps tag-along till 14. Not one single measly tanking ability. Nothing like waiting for the fun.

Other than that, I haven't had a weekend of naps only in quite some time, so I'd say it wins for me.

That's a problem for all the tank specs, something that we've bitched about for builds now. You don't get your tanking stance/buff till like 4-6 levels past 10. Specifically the shield generator thing doing nothing for 4 levels bothers me, because if you don't read the tooltips in your future abilities, you'll have no idea why your shield generator is useless.

Yeah, and Bioware's stance on it is kind of weird. They want the three tank-capable classes to not feel pigeonholed into tanking, so they make it hard-to-impossible for you to actually do so until 14 at a minimum, to allow you to "grow" into the role.

This doesn't mesh well with the other two ends of the trinity, though, since every healing-capable class gets and can effectively use their first heal at level 10, the instant they choose the class. And of course everyone can DPS at any time. So delaying even the most basic of tanking tools - the tank stance - til 14 is just bizarre.

[Lucas]

Watching sith warrior starting area:

http://it.twitch.tv/towelliee

[Pendan]

It appears I was not very clear and left out my overall play style. On my main character I like going through the story. I read every quest and kill everything. On my second character I generally want to try out another class and I skip through the quest text I know already but I am still killing everything. By my third character I want to try an alternate advancement path. In SWtoR you don’t have options to skip through the quest “text” of a quest you have already done. You sit through the entire speaking parts from what I could find. You don’t have much alternate advancement like I have found in every other DIKU MMO.

To me it is more irritating than ever in such a story driven game to have to sift through a half hour conversation in chat about what is the best smart phone.

If I am supposed to get heavy into the story what is my justification for everyone other character in the world with the same class running around with the same team member (companion) that has the same name and exact same look (until covered with different armor).

[Draegan]

This game will not have damage meters as far as I know.  Should make for interesting debates to who has better dps!

Oops, there are no DPS classes in this game because there is no way to measure damage per second!  

[Evildrider]

This game will not have damage meters as far as I know.  Should make for interesting debates to who has better dps!

Oops, there are no DPS classes in this game because there is no way to measure damage per second!  

Yeah but Zoeller wants to have it in sometime down the line as he's also a professed min/maxer.

[Modern Angel]

I've been in continuous beta since June.

I have mixed feelings about the game. Initially, I was dead set on buying it, partly because the game ran so shittily in older builds that I couldn't focus on anything BUT the choppiness. Recent builds have fixed that drastically, leaving me wondering if there was a debugger in the background.

So now I'm leaning very slightly on the buy side of things, just for maybe one playthrough. There may be a couple months worth of fun but it's coming with a mountain of problems.

Firstly, it's incredibly dependent on if you like your character's story. If your character's story is dogshit, and fully half of them are mediocre to dogshit, then you won't have a good time. Some of the stories vary wildly by quest, going up and down like a yoyo (Smuggler, I'm looking at you). Then there are a couple really pretty decent ones, as far as video game stories go.

The problem here is that if you choose poorly, you're fucked. You might keep waiting for it to get better and it never does, leaving you locked in with a class you like but a shitty story. In which case, why not play *any other MMO on the market* with a class you like more? Because they've hinged it all on story, there's a certain risk to the player. But whatever, it comes with the territory.

Classes themselves are surprisingly fun for the most part. I especially like their addition of ranged tanking, if for no other reason than a guy I know who works in the MMO industry telling me that ranged tanking was essentially impossible to do correctly. So fuck that guy. Some of the classes are so much like their WoW counterparts that Bioware should really be fucking embarrassed. Jedi Knight stands out. When I played mine to 23ish, they were carbon copies of WoW Warriors. We're not talking inspired by. We're talking carbon fucking copies, with mostly the same abilites (oh, I have a Sunder Armor on my Jedi which stacks to three and does extra threat? AMAZING!) which is just inexcusable.

Talent trees are some of the blandest I've ever seen, and that's pretty much universal. They're all 1% this, 1% that, with a few powers thrown in. The problem is that none of the talent tree active unlocks I can think of off the top of my head has ANY synergy, anywhere. Very few use on procs, etc.

The number of buttons you're going to have at the end is obscene. It's completely over the top and they're going to have to do something about it. With the lack of base UI customization, I could fill all four hotbars with abilities. Some of them overlapped and really need to be consolidated.

The UI is basically garbage. It's nominally attractive but you can't move anything but the chat box, and there's no reason to move THAT because you can't move anything else. You can't scale anything down or up. You get four hotbars, only two of which are at the bottom; the other two are one vertical left and one vertical right. The chat box is in the upper left and the minimap is in the lower right which is annoying as hell, and then doubly annoying because you can't move anything. Like I said, the color scheme and style are attractive but this is the least customizable UI since WoW launched. Inexcusable to not have a customizable UI in 2011.

I love the graphical style. Lighting is crisp, effects are good, animations are solid. The combat animations could be a bit better, in the sense that the visual feedback for various powers isn't always super clear. Sound design is awesome. Music kicks in at dramatic moments, stuff from the movies is reused smartly and the lightsabers have a satisfying VOOSH when drawn.

Zones are actually pretty small and very on rails. There's not a lot of room for exploration that I've seen. They throw you a bone on the little cube doodads they hide places to boost your stats but if you pay attention, you can pick out their locations pretty easily when you wrap up a zone by eyeing where quests DON'T send you. They look plenty big but they do in the Azjol-Nerub way from WLK: huge backdrop vistas but small actual areas you can wander into. If you like Cataclysm WoW, you'll love SWTOR. Supposedly Tatooine is a bit more open but I can't speak to that firsthand.

I really like grouping and the "dungeons" I did felt like being in a Star Wars movie. Shit's flying around, crisp group dialogue, etc. The amount of trash is pretty crappy in them sometimes but the boss fights are surprisingly creative in spots.

Now, here's the biggy. I know you guys say that you're cool with a WoW clone in space but I really don't think that's going to last. I am not really sure people are prepared for just how much of a WoW clone this is, And this is most obvious with the quests. They're terrible. Not always the story or whatever but the actual mechanics. At the end of the day, you're still collecting bear asses but now you do it with voice overs. And this was totally cool for awhile. I was SURPRISED at how cool I was with it for awhile. But by level 20, it starts to get a little tedious and the window dressing disguising it starts to wear off... and then you realize you've played this game.

See, I have a theory, after watching everyone drop WoW like a hot potato, ostensibly ALL for differing reasons (too hard, too easy, too much gear, not enough gear), that the zeigeist has just changed and people are sick of the very WoW-ness of WoW. And I just don't see this being incredibly sticky, even for people who really, really think it will be. I may be proven wrong but I fully expect it to be a lot more Rift, with a subforum going for awhile but interest trailing off, than WoW, with a multiyear, highly engaged playerbase from time immemorial. And I know right now that you guys are going to swear up and down that this is a lie and that you've found your game and the license can make up for a ton of flaws... we'll see. I'm not buying the longevity here.

But it's not a bad game. It's really not. It's just uninspiring and average, with bursts of high octane fun. To try to illustrate, I don't really dig Star Wars aside from the original Trilogy. I would fire this up and play the shit out of it. Hours on end. But I never, ever thought about it when I was away. I never thought, "Goddamn, I need to fire up Star Wars." Not once did I think about it in the off-hours like I did with WoW or Rift or LOTRO... or Dwarf Fortress or Morrowind or Planescape or EU3 or....

So that's telling. But I'm not immune to the charms of a light saber or blaster play. Like I said, I'm leaning narrowly toward picking it up over Xmas, because I do think there's a solid couple months here. But temper your expectations, because the story and voice acting simply aren't good or novel enough to mask that you've played this exact, and I mean EXACT, game before.

[Sjofn]

It's leftover angst from when he was a thane and I was a skald and our duo was ... subpar.

Priceless.  That comment made my day! 

At least I had my song of rest, man. 

[Murgos]

I've seen a couple of complaints now about having to do the same quests when leveling an alt.  This is one of those things that people forget about games that have been established for a while, they didn't launch with all those starter areas and alternate mid-level paths.  They are almost all added later in expansions.

EQ had a bunch of starter cities but by the teens you were in 1 of 2 places and after that there was 1 path forward.
EQ2 launched with 2 starter towns and by mid-20's everyone was in the same area.
COH 1 starter area, 1 leveling path.
Rifts 2 starter areas, I never played it long enough to see if it provided more diversity later.
WoW had more, I think 4 per side?  And two different leveling areas until, what the 20's?
LoTRO has 4 starter areas but by mid-teens everyone is in the same place.

In comparison SWTOR is launching with 4 starter areas (two per side with 2 questlines each) and two separate leveling areas until mid-20's (Tatooine?).

Would I like more low and mid level content for my alts?  Sure, but it's not the horrible travesty some seem to think.

[Fordel]

It's at least a short lived problem. You'll get your proper stance and shit soon enough.



Crafting: It's equal or superior to WoW crafting in every regard except one. Instant Gratification. If you want your new shiny item your making RIGHT NOW, well, tough shit you get to wait  

You the player never actually craft anything, your companions do the crafting, each companion gets a little bonus to a specific craft, though these bonuses aren't really earth shattering if you want to do a craft that your companions don't have bonuses for. Crafting items can take anywhere from 60 seconds to 30minutes. You can queue up 5 crafted items per companion. The number of companions who can craft at any one time is limited by your level range. So you start off with only being able to send one companion off to craft, and by level 40ish, you can send 4 at a time.

You learn recipes from your trainers, or from drops, or from 'Reverse Engineering'. Reverse Engineering is basically a salvage option. It lets you break down crafted items (and sometimes dropped items that would fall into your craft category), into base crafted components. It's not a 100% efficient process, if you put 2 metal and 2 wood into a pair of boots, you'll probably wont get 2 metal and 2 wood back out. Reverse Engineering gives you a chance to learn a advanced version of the item you just broke down. So you could learn to make a pair of blue boots by breaking down a pair of green boots. You can then make those blue con boots and break them down for a chance to learn some purple con boots.

Reverse engineering also solves that problem of "I just made 20 green con boots to skill up my craft... I hope there are a lot of newbies that want boots on the AH today   ".


Collecting crafting materials works in two general ways. First is the usual go out in the world and click the nodes for materials method. If you've crafted in WoW or any other MMO in the past decade, you know how this works pretty much. The only spiffy thing is you can send your companion to do this by shift clicking. So if you see a node 50 yards to your left on the road, you just click the companion over and you never have to make a detour. The companion will catch up to you (it actually teleports back to you if you get far enough away, like a weeping angel). You can also gather yourself at the same time, for twice the gather potential  

The other method is through companion side missions, where you open up your crew window pick a side mission on the gathering/mission skill relative to your class, pay a small credit cost and your companion disappears to do whatever. These side missions can reward you with small amounts of light/dark side points (they tell you up front if its a light or dark mission), and crafted materials, special materials and other bonus items like companion gifts. These missions work like item crafting, where you can only send X amount of companions out per level range. They also SHARE that limit with crafting, so if you tie up all your companions on missions, you cant craft stuff till they are back and vice versa. Missions can take anywhere from 5-30+ minutes.

There are mission specific craft skills and you can use your gathering skills to also send companions on missions. You can't queue missions to the best of my knoweldge.


Your companions will do their queue'd crafts and missions even if you are offline, the items/rewards will wait for you till you log back in the next day. A recent change is companions will use your ships cargo hold (ie: bank storage/vault) if your own inventory doesn't have the right materials. So you can basically queue up missions and crafts from anywhere and not have to worry about carrying all the god damn mats with you. It's something you spend like half a minute on every 15-30 minutes or so, and you can do whatever you want in the meantime, continue questing, go run some dungeons, go do space missions.

[Modern Angel]

Well a) they're not competing with the games of four years ago and b) maybe the complaint isn't "WoW has more" but "I'm sort of over doing the exact same content on alts, especially in a game arguably geared toward having lots of alts".