SWTOR

[Nebu]

When I say "polished", I agree with you in that it's a more directed amusement park ride.  WoW is also significantly more user friendly in terms of PC power and casual gaming (i.e. WoW is more solo/casual friendly, has a better/more customizable interface with mods, etc. )  The only thing that really makes LotRO a standout in terms of gameplay would be the epic quest lines and backdrop.  I'm going to bet that there are a significant number of casual players that will never get to experience the epic content.  

I don't know if I am a "more mature" gamer, but I do have an affection for the backdrop.

I added the maturity comment as it's obvious after a few hours playing that the LotRO userbase is more mature in general.  You get a good feel for this by interacting with many people in game.  I grind my teeth significantly less reading the open chat channels as well. 

[Numtini]

BTW I agree that WoW has a great deal going for it, just saying there have been other games that, as games, are successful. (Where I would say that AOC, War, and CO are basically not viable games. Period.) EQ2 is imho every bit WoW's equal as a game, particularly for serious gamers. It will just never live up to its potential because of a very bad launch, SOE's reputation, and the insane system requirements.

LOTRO is a very unpolished game. All you need to do is look at the atrocious design of the epic quest lines, mixing content that requires a group for 5 or 10 minutes in the middle of solo quest chains, to see that. It's a poor design, plain and simple. I'm playing it and it's a viable game, but there's a lot of places where the lack of polish shows.

[Fordel]

Does EQ2 still have 'ability flood' for lack of a better term?



One of the most common complaints I read about EQ2, was the fact you would end up with eight different abilities that were all essentially the same default anytime attack.

[Kageh]

Does EQ2 still have 'ability flood' for lack of a better term?

One of the most common complaints I read about EQ2, was the fact you would end up with eight different abilities that were all essentially the same default anytime attack.

Last time I played (about 1 year ago) they still had that problem. Also, most of the abilities are very similar - up to being nearly identical - among archetype subclasses, so if you play one rogue and you get skill X, you're most likely going to get skill X on other rogue types you'll try. Unless it's something class defining and unique (like bard singing, necro skeletons and so on).

[Draegan]

My only doom and gloom, as I said a few pages ago is that there isn't anything here that warrants a subscription.  It looks like a really cool single player game with a multi player option.

What makes it look like a cool single player game?
Would kotor/dragon age/mass effect really be as interesting with only a main character and no save/reload function?


I'm completely with you that if it stands on its own as a single player game it may be worth looking at. I just don't understand why I'd get as excited about this as about ME3 and DA2. I'm completely lost on why I'm supposed to be interested in the multiplayer aspect.

I never said I was excited about it.  It just looks like a cool game to play for a little bit.

[Numtini]

Does EQ2 still have 'ability flood' for lack of a better term?

Yes and no. It still has more abilities than WoW, but the abilities that take the place of earlier ones are now normalized in name. So you still may have 20 abilities instead of the 10 in Wow, but the small heal has the same name throughout the game, it just is now prefixed as superior, master, or something like that.

In terms of the game, the number of classes and skills is really a feature to me. I like the diversity of abilities and when they tried to consolidate, they got a lot of pushback over it. However, that's just taste. Picking at which game one likes best is fine, but the question I was responding to was where else people would go other than WoW. I can understand why people like WoW better, but IMHO EQ2 and LOTRO are options. They haven't won, but they do compete. IMHO War doesn't compete, it's not an option, it's a broken joke.

[Venkman]

btw, you drastically weaken your point by going from the bold insight that

"This entire genre has a bigger feedback loop ... than almost anything else I can think of in existence"

to the Rick Romero-worthy obvious

"You can always get the uninformed to buy a box  ...  these people are not part of that feedback loop ... But they are the most important bit of feedback to publishers".

   

Hopefully I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying, or how the parts of what you said that I clipped out somehow made it make more sense.

You raise a good point. It's an inherent contradiction at face value. The point I didn't make very well was: box sales for MMOs can follow the typical box sale pattern of any game if you have a big huge marketing campaign; however, unlike other genres, MMOs require people play the game after the box sale in order to be a successful business. In other words, marketing activities can sell boxes, but it's only the development activities that can retain accounts.

That feedback loop is part of the latter. If it's a bad game, the publishing side gets to learn that almost immediately.

I'd expect a number of the WoW core to have stayed a long time.  Think about it... what has there been worth leaving WoW for if you're an MMO enthusiast?

EQ2 or LOTRO.

EQ2 came before WoW and had a poor initial showing.  LotRO lacks the polish of WoW and really appeals only to more mature gamers that have affection for the backdrop.  Neither has enough draw to pull significant numbers from WoW and this shows in their subscriber numbers. 

I think they meant nowadays, and for the enthusiast only. In that regard, both EQ2 and LoTRO are viable alternatives. They're not totally unlike WoW but with enough differents to be alternatives. They were not that viable at launch, but that was a long time ago.

There isn't a game big enough to dent WoW, and I'm not sure there will be until the rumored Blizzard MMOFPS (which btw some of us totally called... no way Blizzard makes another MMORPG while WoW is big).

[UnSub]

Riccitiello indicates that SWOR probably launches Spring 2011.

[schild]

This will be the most expensive game ever made.

Edit: I feel like my post wasn't clear enough before.

[SnakeCharmer]

People are misunderstanding what he meant by Spring 2011, as well as several other statements he made.  The game won't be out in Spring 2011 calender year, the game will be out in Spring 2011 fiscal year, which for EA starts March 20th or 21st, 2010 and ends in June 2010.

That's my take on it anyway.

[schild]

People are misunderstanding what he meant by Spring 2011, as well as several other statements he made.  The game won't be out in Spring 2011 calender year, the game will be out in Spring 2011 fiscal year, which for EA starts March 20th or 21st, 2010 and ends in June 2010.

That's my take on it anyway.

It's possible since it was an earnings call. They'd have to ramp up marketing though if it's 2 months from now, which would mean it would STILL probably be the most expensive game ever made.

[Riggswolfe]

Is it even in beta yet? That sounds really, really fast if we're going with the fiscal year analysis!

[SnakeCharmer]

It's possible since it was an earnings call. They'd have to ramp up marketing though if it's 2 months from now, which would mean it would STILL probably be the most expensive game ever made.

For whatever it's worth, here's the way I interpret it.  I could very well be completely wrong:

EA's FY 2011 start March 20, 2010, and end March 19, 2011.
He made mention that because of the 'volatility of the MMO market in today's economy', they are not going to speculate on revenue from the game* to include in their 2011 earnings.  
If it is a Spring 2011 calender year (March 20, 2011 to June 20, 2011) release, they can't include it on their FY 2011 outlook/projections regardless because Spring 2011 calender year would fall under their FY 2012 earnings.  This directly contradicts the statement about not including it in their 2011 earnings projection because of the reasons given above.
In order to fall under FY 2011 earnings, it would have to be launched between March 20, 2010 to March 19, 2011.

*However, it's possible, however unlikely, that he was talking about APB.  So there's that.

Also, who knows what's left to reveal?  A handful of races and planets?  All the classes have been shown, from the looks of things most of the planets are revealed, the factions are done.  The lore or story of the game is already out there, and as far as the timeline thing narrated by Lance Christiansen (sp?), their CM has already stated that the timeline holocron thing will continue to be revealed after the game has launched.  Combat and its mechanics have been shown.  What's left?  Crafting?  Raiding?  Isn't that pretty much a given?  They can talk about those in news releases or whatnot.

Is it even in beta yet? That sounds really, really fast if we're going with the fiscal year analysis!

Rumor has it they've been doing massive internal testing as they go, and the beta has already started.  Plus, in order to hit the spring 2011 fiscal release, they still have 6 months to go.  And it wouldn't be surprising to see it fall into Summer 2011 FY (June 2010 to Sept 2010).  It's not like any MMO has ever launched 'on time' anyway. 

The other thing is they've already stated that the game launch was going to coincide with the print publication of the comic and new book, which is supposed to hit the printers in April and July, respectively, this year.

Edit:  added a bunch of worthless speculation...

[Draegan]

If this game were to still have another year or more to go I think it would just collapse on itself. 

[sickrubik]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109426

While we have not announced a specific date, we can confirm that we are targeting a spring 2011 release for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. We’ve got a lot of exciting updates and reveals planned throughout 2010, including the first-ever hands-on testing for the game. It’s not too late to sign up to be a game tester, so go to www.swtor.com/tester and sign up today. We can’t wait to share more about the game with you as we progress through the year, so make sure you stay tuned to the official website for details.

[Montague]

This will be the most expensive game ever made.

Edit: I feel like my post wasn't clear enough before.

Judging from the numbers EA's given it looks like Riccitello is betting the farm on it.

[SnakeCharmer]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109426

While we have not announced a specific date, we can confirm that we are targeting a spring 2011 release for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. We’ve got a lot of exciting updates and reveals planned throughout 2010, including the first-ever hands-on testing for the game. It’s not too late to sign up to be a game tester, so go to www.swtor.com/tester and sign up today. We can’t wait to share more about the game with you as we progress through the year, so make sure you stay tuned to the official website for details.

Saw that.

I don't know.  It just doesn't jive with what Rockincello said.  But he could have misspoke, I suppose.

[eldaec]

Spring 2011, by the normal human meaning of the word sounds about right, given they only just finished announcing classes ffs.

Why are people surprised, this sounds perfectly reasonable, they only announced the damn thing a year ago. When was the last time a major single player or mmog rpg took less than two years from announcement to release? Never, that's when.

Ok, maybe Bards Tale 3 or something.

[Ingmar]

Bioware especially takes forever, they're up there with Blizzard. (lol Bioware Austin etc)

[LK]

Bioware especially takes forever, they're up there with Blizzard. (lol Bioware Austin etc)

So, they're smart. :)

[UnSub]

Length of time to develop != increased quality of final product. Rushing it out doesn't help, but neither does overbaking it.

[Rendakor]

Bioware especially takes forever, they're up there with Blizzard. (lol Bioware Austin etc)

So, they're smart. :)

I hear Tabula Rasa and Darkfall took a long time to develop.

[Kageru]

I don't know those games would have been better if they'd come out earlier.

But yes, having a generous time *and* using that time productively is the trick. Vanguard was another example of long development time but pissing it away generating game assets with no real idea what would be done with them.

[sidereal]

Length of time to develop != increased quality of final product. Rushing it out doesn't help, but neither does overbaking it.

Nonsense.  It's why Duke Nukem Forever is infinitely good.

[sickrubik]

[Nonsense.  It's why Duke Nukem Forever is infinitely good.

That's the real reason it isn't out yet. Our minds aren't equipped to deal with the sheer awesomeness that IS Duke Nukem Forever. Maybe in another 200 years, humans' brains will have evoled to the point where our synapses can grasp the brilliance of just the opening cutscene.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Duke nuke'em fucking the presidents super-model daughter(barely legal) on top of a harley while he rides across the sky(it's a space harley) shooting pig aliens with every thrust, each shot a headshot and causing a shower of brains. At the end of the opening a gigantic boss appears, duke then proceeds to dismount the harley(but not the girl) the bike flies into the bosses mouth which is then exploded by a shotgun blast to the gas tank at the same moment the girl has the best orgasm of her life.  When it's all finished duke looks to the camera and says "I am you."

fin

[Tannhauser]

I'll buy that game. 

[LK]

Wow. I can't improve it. Bravo.

[HaemishM]

This will be the most expensive game ever made.

Edit: I feel like my post wasn't clear enough before.

Judging from the numbers EA's given it looks like Riccitello is betting the farm on it.

I wouldn't say that, but I'm guessing he's betting the MMO farm on it. After the colossal fuckup that was Warharmmer Online, and how the purchase of Mythic has essentially been a giant sucking black of hole of fail, as has every single MMO venture EA has tried to accomplish after Ultima Online, I'd say EA's at another one of those decision points: do we really keep tossing money at this giant potential pile of money that is the MMO market or do we shitcan the MMO division again and focus on Pogo-style F2P shit that is browser-based, costs nothing to make and relies on MTX to profit. Of course, after the fuckup of Battlefield Heroes, they may give it up altogether in favor of big-budget blockbusters with lots of nickel and dime DLC.

[Nebu]

I always thought that EA made their money by repackaging the same old stuff in a new box every year and marketing the hell out of it.  

[HaemishM]

That's how they keep the lights on and the employees paid - the EA Sports lineup. The other shit is how they make their profit.

[Tannhauser]

What's up with Battlefield Heroes?  I'm curious.

[Malakili]

What's up with Battlefield Heroes?  I'm curious.

Can you be more specific?  Are you just asking for experience with it in general?

[Tannhauser]

Haem said BH had a 'fuck up'. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Everytime EA considers pulling the MMO plug some idiot will show them blizzards profits from wow alone and execs will get a big ol money boner and once more throw their cash at shitty projects.