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Author Topic: 1.01 Discussion  (Read 24112 times)
rattran
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Unreasonable


Reply #140 on: October 03, 2008, 04:14:08 PM

I've been upping my initiative with gear, and spotting witch elves fairly often in stealth.

As for pet issues, the White Lion in lore shouldn't even have a pet. It should be a tank class. Like swordmaster should be mdps. Dunno how Mythic borked that. At least squig herders are canon.
Fraeg
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Mad skills with the rod.


Reply #141 on: October 03, 2008, 04:22:06 PM

Don't witchelves have a really low crit rate against them as well?  This will turn out very helpful in the endgame where spike damage is king.

i have around 11% chance to be crit at lvl 21.  how does that compare to other peoples classes?  I sounds fairly  low too me, and it is definatly a number i could get lower easily if i passed on other stats.

to the person who mentioned WH duos in pugland.  I team up with another WH. We are both in vent and our carnage is pretty spectacular.  Don't think it will hold up as well in T3, but i can hope.  I get that warm tingly feeling i used to get back in the day on my WoW rogue when i would take out sitting mages with an ambush backstab combo. 

"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
rk47
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The Patron Saint of Radicalthons


Reply #142 on: October 03, 2008, 10:54:41 PM

Well considering BW at max combustion has 50% chance to crit...  swamp poop
I duno, I really enjoyed playing Hildebrandt, it's like the world is covered with gasoline in Mourkain. I don't know about T3 but so far he's a blast to play.

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
Goreschach
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Reply #143 on: October 03, 2008, 11:16:17 PM

Yeah, at first I was sad to see Nordenwatch go, but mourkain has started to grow on me. I think it's because everyone is so focused on the dude with the thing that I can just jump around and spam heals on people all fight long.
Evildrider
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Reply #144 on: October 04, 2008, 12:48:46 AM

Well considering BW at max combustion has 50% chance to crit...  swamp poop
I duno, I really enjoyed playing Hildebrandt, it's like the world is covered with gasoline in Mourkain. I don't know about T3 but so far he's a blast to play.

I get to kill lots in Tor with my BW.  It's very satisfying. :) 
Draegan
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Reply #145 on: October 04, 2008, 08:55:43 AM

The one thing Mythic didn't bother doing is balancing classes with each other as you level up.  Some classes get awesome abilities early, some get them late.  Lets see balance at Rank 40, then we can judge it.
Zetor
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Reply #146 on: October 04, 2008, 09:09:13 AM

The only t2 scenario that pops on Ostermark since the patch is Phoenix Gate.
Yesterday I spent 3-4 hours in queue for the other two [at prime time]... nothing. Others reported similar experiences on the forum.

Is this happening on other servers too? Or did everyone on Ostermark suddenly get a subconscious urge to stop queuing for mourkain and stonetroll?

edit: in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, phoenix gate sucks ass.  Heartbreak


-- Z.

Draegan
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Reply #147 on: October 04, 2008, 09:35:35 AM

I'm Order on Azazel and my queues for Mourkain is less than a minute, Stonetroll is under 2 minutes and Phoenix Gate is around 3-5 minutes.  I leveled from 20-22 by just doing Scenarios right after the other.
Khaldun
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Reply #148 on: October 04, 2008, 10:16:08 AM

The only t2 scenario that pops on Ostermark since the patch is Phoenix Gate.
Yesterday I spent 3-4 hours in queue for the other two [at prime time]... nothing. Others reported similar experiences on the forum.

Is this happening on other servers too? Or did everyone on Ostermark suddenly get a subconscious urge to stop queuing for mourkain and stonetroll?

edit: in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, phoenix gate sucks ass.  Heartbreak


-- Z.

Same on Kislev. Just Phoenix Gate, nothing else. And when you show up, everyone grouses that it's Phoenix Gate, so I don't think anyone is choosing it preferentially.
Seanzor
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Reply #149 on: October 04, 2008, 11:24:55 AM

The one thing Mythic didn't bother doing is balancing classes with each other as you level up.  Some classes get awesome abilities early, some get them late.  Lets see balance at Rank 40, then we can judge it.
I'd love to, but, oh, darn, I'm stuck at rank 32 because there are no T4 scenarios popping, just as there were no T3 scenarios popping when I was stuck at 22 almost two weeks ago.  Questing (read: grinding like it's some cave troll MMO like FFXI or Lineage) isn't something I do, I'm better than that.

And... 10 days until WoW patch 3.0 and then I'll never look back.  It's a shame Mythic was so embarrassed by their endgame that they had to add an xp cockblock immediately before release. 
bhodikhan
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Reply #150 on: October 04, 2008, 11:51:11 AM

It's a shame Mythic was so embarrassed by their endgame that they had to add an xp cockblock immediately before release. 

And that's the truth. The T3 grind is crazy broing. I hate the PVE in this game and leveling up in Scenarios if they pop seems really slow.
Threash
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Reply #151 on: October 04, 2008, 12:04:06 PM

The one thing Mythic didn't bother doing is balancing classes with each other as you level up.  Some classes get awesome abilities early, some get them late.  Lets see balance at Rank 40, then we can judge it.
I'd love to, but, oh, darn, I'm stuck at rank 32 because there are no T4 scenarios popping, just as there were no T3 scenarios popping when I was stuck at 22 almost two weeks ago.  Questing (read: grinding like it's some cave troll MMO like FFXI or Lineage) isn't something I do, I'm better than that.

And... 10 days until WoW patch 3.0 and then I'll never look back.  It's a shame Mythic was so embarrassed by their endgame that they had to add an xp cockblock immediately before release. 

How are you so far ahead of the curve without grinding?

I am the .00000001428%
Seanzor
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Reply #152 on: October 04, 2008, 12:12:42 PM

How are you so far ahead of the curve without grinding?

Scenarios.  I did quests to level 8 in T1, then Nordenwatch.  I did quests to level 16 in T2, then Morkain's Temple.  I did quests to... 23 or 24 in T3, then Talabec Dam (that was hell) to 27, then Tor Anroc to 32, now I'm sitting on my hands.  That small bit of questing in 23 and 24 is where I realized that Mythic had really screwed the PvE pooch.

At one point in T3 I ground out like 100 squigs for a kill collector, then found out that KCs only give you xp for 60 total.  I was watching a movie at the time, and it still sucked.  That little experience was less fun than reading a novel for 8 hours during Jury Duty.  When an aspect of a game is less fun than Jury Duty, something's fucked.
Draegan
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Reply #153 on: October 04, 2008, 02:19:16 PM

I think you're playing the game wrong, or you're a bitter catass.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #154 on: October 04, 2008, 02:28:10 PM

I think you're playing the game wrong, or you're a bitter catass.

There's no such thing as playing a game wrong, shame on you for that trite line. Players will play how they want, what they enjoy doing and that's the point. If your game does not cater to some people, these people won't play your game. It's as simple as that. The real question is how many people your game caters to really, is this number high or low, can your game appeal to enough people to be worth making? who knows but there is no WRONG way to play.

Also this is the same reason why adding exp bonuses to order will not work because most people want to play destruction, exp is a treat that may entice people but it's telling them they are playing wrong and if they play right they will get rewarded and it's missing the point entirely.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
amiable
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Reply #155 on: October 04, 2008, 02:41:02 PM

I think you're playing the game wrong, or you're a bitter catass.

There's no such thing as playing a game wrong, shame on you for that trite line.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  This is a PvP oriented game designed to foster competition.  If you grind your way to the top without experience scenarios, keep sieges, world pvp objectives, etc... you are going to have a miserable time because the PvE experience in this game is designed solely as a supplement to the PvP.  It's like playing the tetris mini-game add-on in WoW and than complaining the game sucks because the Tetris game you downloaded on your computer is so much better.  What will happen when most of the characters level out of the lowbie zones and there is no one to play against?  I bet you 5 dollars that mythic ups the XP curve (which is obvious if they are smart).  You can grind up to 70 in WoW chain killing murlocs, but if you run to the boards to complain that murloc killing is boring and no one is 70 yet because they are busy "questing" so the end game sucks people will probably look at you rather quizzically and say "you really should go quest."

I think a a lot of folks entered into this game with a WoW mentality, and after discovering that it is not in fact WoW 2.0 got upset.  Most of the people I see complaining either:

1.  Catassed to Tier 4 and now are bored because no one is there yet.

2.  Rolled Destruction on an overpopulated server and are frustrated with queues.

Number 1 is your fault, and it's not like  you didn't know what you were getting into when you did it, so you really shouldn't complain.

Number 2 is Mythics fault, but you always have the option to roll Order and have a much better time of it.  i mean you have only invested a few weeks into your destruction toon, it's not like it is that hug of a loss.

My wife and I are having a wonderful time playing in Bat country, there are always guild groups going and everyone I play with seems to be having a lot of fun.  it seems to be going very well right now, so I don't understand the rage.  If you like WoW better, play Wow, but we will be staying.
trias_e
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Reply #156 on: October 04, 2008, 02:43:26 PM

Quote
Scenarios.  I did quests to level 8 in T1, then Nordenwatch.  I did quests to level 16 in T2, then Morkain's Temple.  I did quests to... 23 or 24 in T3, then Talabec Dam (that was hell) to 27, then Tor Anroc to 32, now I'm sitting on my hands.  That small bit of questing in 23 and 24 is where I realized that Mythic had really screwed the PvE pooch.

I don't see why people complain so much about the PvE in tier 3.  I'm 25 and have completed all chapter 11s, and a couple chapter 12s.  The quest reward xp is much lower in proportion than it used to be, true, but it's still reasonable as long as you combine it with other activities. I still enjoy varying my activity as I did in the earlier tiers.  Sometimes I'll solo quest and do scenarios at the same time.  Other times I'll find a group doing PQs and hang around them for a while.  I even play the other scenarios, regardless that they give less XP and pop less often.  This all makes me happy playing, yes, even in the 'hell' of tier 3.  The only thing that bothers me is that Open RvR is empty most of the time.  But I still have fun playing the game and don't even look at my XP bar, which is fun that I guess other people are not having.


Quote

There's no such thing as playing a game wrong, shame on you for that trite line

There is definitely such a thing as playing a game wrong.  I'm not saying Seanzor is playing the game wrong (certainly leveling too quickly isn't blameworthy), but for instance, if you just grind mobs to 60 in WoW and complain about the lack of quests...you're playing the game wrong.  To a lesser degree, if like Yahtzee you play EvE only as a solo quest WoW-type game, you're playing the game wrong.  You might not like playing the game the 'right' way, which is of course perfectly fair to complain about.  But if you are playing the game counter to it's design and strengths, you have no right to complain about the way you are playing the game resulting in no fun. 

« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 02:48:27 PM by trias_e »
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #157 on: October 04, 2008, 02:50:36 PM

As to "if you don't like queues roll order" well if I'm having trouble getting a girl then I should try guys?(with increased blowjob skill as incentive) Sorry it's stupid logic in any scenario.

Also I think you're missing the point, this is a consumer driven system and it's the customer that ultimately decides what they want. Just because I hated the sims doesn't mean I was playing it wrong, it also didn't make the sims a bad game but it wasn't for me. Warhammer is not for him, he's not doing it wrong, he's doing it the way he wants and that is all that matters, period. He'll vote with his money as will many others, as many here do not play wow or eq2. 

The question is not now nor will it ever be "are you playing this wrong?" it is "Are you having fun playing?" and that's a question only individuals can answer.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Seanzor
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Reply #158 on: October 04, 2008, 03:15:16 PM

How does not doing quests, not grinding = catass?  I never rolled an alt prior to being stuck around T4.  I just did other shit.  The vast majority of my time has been spent in scenarios, getting xp that blows anything else out of the water.  The game's been out long enough for me to hit T4 and still have, what, 4-5 days now where I haven't so much as touched the game?

Yeah, I'm captain catass.

Edit:  As to playing the game wrong... If anything, I'm playing the game right.  Only a moron or rabid fanboy (or someone who hasn't cleared T2) would think that WAR has PvE that is anything other than laughably bad.  Where's the confusion, here?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 03:17:35 PM by Seanzor »
trias_e
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Reply #159 on: October 04, 2008, 03:42:46 PM

Quote

Edit:  As to playing the game wrong... If anything, I'm playing the game right.  Only a moron or rabid fanboy (or someone who hasn't cleared T2) would think that WAR has PvE that is anything other than laughably bad.  Where's the confusion, here?

What's the difference between T2 and T3 PvE other than relative XP is worse in T3?  I honestly don't see it.

I also don't see any difference between WAR solo questing and WoW questing (which everyone seems to think is at least decent).  Could someone please enlighten me?
Kirth
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Reply #160 on: October 04, 2008, 03:49:46 PM

As to "if you don't like queues roll order" well if I'm having trouble getting a girl then I should try guys?(with increased blowjob skill as incentive)

how long is the queue for the girls your trying to get?  why so serious?
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #161 on: October 04, 2008, 04:03:19 PM

As to "if you don't like queues roll order" well if I'm having trouble getting a girl then I should try guys?(with increased blowjob skill as incentive)

how long is the queue for the girls your trying to get?  why so serious?

Not long enough to make me switch teams....yet? DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Seanzor
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Reply #162 on: October 04, 2008, 04:04:41 PM

Quote

Edit:  As to playing the game wrong... If anything, I'm playing the game right.  Only a moron or rabid fanboy (or someone who hasn't cleared T2) would think that WAR has PvE that is anything other than laughably bad.  Where's the confusion, here?

What's the difference between T2 and T3 PvE other than relative XP is worse in T3?  I honestly don't see it.

I also don't see any difference between WAR solo questing and WoW questing (which everyone seems to think is at least decent).  Could someone please enlighten me?

I don't mean to be vitriolic, but if you can't spot the difference between WAR questing and WoW questing on your own, you're not going to spot it with some assistance, either.  That said, an explanation is included below, free of charge.

So, what's the difference between T2 and T3 PvE?  Well, that's just it - there isn't one, except that the quests give you about 1/3 of the xp they give you in T2 (relative to the xp needed to level).  So, what happens is, you're still doing the same stupid shit that a 5-year-old could do well, except you have to do more of it, for longer, until you eventually run out (assuming you're *just* questing).

The quests are fucking dumb.  Quests aren't fun, but they're more fun than grinding, which is why WoW and WAR and EQ2 and any other game with a big dumb chunk of leveling through PvE has them.  When you run out of your shitty quests, then things *really* suck.

The core of this rotten apple, though, is that being level boring is FUCKING STUPID.  There's no good reason to actually slow down the speed with which a player approaches level cap, where the game is at its most complex, intricate, and engaging.  If Mythic hadn't kneecapped leveling rates *immediately* before release, none of this shit would be an issue.

Sorry, open RvR before level 40 is stupid.  There is no benefit at all to your faction controlling keeps, that went away when Altdorf hit rank 2.  The xp and renown from open RvR is insultingly bad, and any claim is that people should raid keeps before T4 solely because it's fun (in defiance of the lack of any reward structure worth mentioning) is naive at best.

This is a fucking MMO - players go where the rewards are, it's not rocket science; it's a basic fucking tenet of MMO design.
amiable
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Reply #163 on: October 04, 2008, 04:40:00 PM

How does not doing quests, not grinding = catass?  I never rolled an alt prior to being stuck around T4.  I just did other shit.  The vast majority of my time has been spent in scenarios, getting xp that blows anything else out of the water.  The game's been out long enough for me to hit T4 and still have, what, 4-5 days now where I haven't so much as touched the game?

Yeah, I'm captain catass.

Edit:  As to playing the game wrong... If anything, I'm playing the game right.  Only a moron or rabid fanboy (or someone who hasn't cleared T2) would think that WAR has PvE that is anything other than laughably bad.  Where's the confusion, here?


Were you exploiting the "leave the party" bug to garner experience at a much higher rate than intended and thus level much faster than everyone else?  If so, hi there Captain Catass!
Seanzor
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Reply #164 on: October 04, 2008, 04:42:43 PM

Were you exploiting the "leave the party" bug to garner experience at a much higher rate than intended and thus level much faster than everyone else?  If so, hi there Captain Catass!

Oh that's a 'bug', now?  Oops, due to a glitch in the code, there's a fully functioning "LEAVE PARTY" button?

Also, catass = doing something to minimize time spent in-game?

Gimmie some of your kool-aid, it sounds delicious.
amiable
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Reply #165 on: October 04, 2008, 04:52:16 PM

Were you exploiting the "leave the party" bug to garner experience at a much higher rate than intended and thus level much faster than everyone else?  If so, hi there Captain Catass!

Oh that's a 'bug', now?  Oops, due to a glitch in the code, there's a fully functioning "LEAVE PARTY" button?

Also, catass = doing something to minimize time spent in-game?

Gimmie some of your kool-aid, it sounds delicious.

Could you take the nerdrage down about 3 notches?  I'm not trying to insult you.  It is quite obviously a bug and doing it gave you huge xp bonus and let your level very fast.  Perhaps catass is the wrong word, but you did level much faster than folks doing comparable activities, and now you are at a point in the game where you can't PvP because no one else has caught up to you.   Hence the problem.
Goreschach
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Reply #166 on: October 04, 2008, 05:21:20 PM

Is there any particular reason you two decided to shit up this thread?
Arthur_Parker
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Internet Detective


Reply #167 on: October 04, 2008, 06:07:41 PM

Gimmie some of your kool-aid, it sounds delicious.

Why are you so upset?  If you don't like it, don't play it.  Saying WOW is less grindy, questing in WAR is pointless, while also mentioning about how you afk WOW battlegrounds is silly.  Start a thread in the WOW sub forum and high five Cevik.  WAR has got lots of problems but the main thing it's got going for it is, it's not WOW.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #168 on: October 04, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Gimmie some of your kool-aid, it sounds delicious.

Why are you so upset?  If you don't like it, don't play it.  Saying WOW is less grindy, questing in WAR is pointless, while also mentioning about how you afk WOW battlegrounds is silly.  Start a thread in the WOW sub forum and high five Cevik.  WAR has got lots of problems but the main thing it's got going for it is, it's not WOW.

Except it really is.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
trias_e
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Reply #169 on: October 04, 2008, 07:01:40 PM

I agree that Mythic totally fucked up giving proper incentives to people in solo questing and open RvR.   I also agree that it sucks they didn't put in enough decent content/solid enough xp for people to solo quest if they get to T3 and T4 before everyone else.  Public Quests get old very quickly because they are all the same, and they are mostly useless because they don't scale.  That said, I certainly don't mind doing them every once in a while.

However, you didn't mention a single difference between WAR and WoW questing other than WARs lacking the proper incentive.  I think it's fair to say there isn't one.  If Mythic simply doubled every quest reward, there would be no difference whatsoever in the two systems.  I personally don't mind this too much: I treasure variety of gameplay and progression over brute progression speed personally.  This is probably why I am enjoying myself still.

But I will admit I may be a minority.  Many people as you say just go where the incentives are, and this causes serious problems for those wanting to, say, play other scenarios other than Tor Anroc.  I agree that this will screw over Mythic, because most people play these games as a grind from start to finish.  Progress Quest to the max.

However, if you don't have that mentality, and you enjoy the PvP (and to a smaller extent the PvE, which I agree is not phenomenally fun in and of itself but I feel is at least decent) I don't think you'll have any problems having fun in this game.  Of course, unless if you're in the top 10th percentile of players in leveling speed, in which you get screwed every time you get into a new tier.  Oh, also if you're a new player starting in a month.  You guys are screwed.  (this does suck)

Quote
Except it really is.

1-39 leveling-wise it's WoW except with a focus on PvP instead of PvE (which I admit isn't a huge difference in overall gameplay).  However, end game there surely is going to be a fairly large difference as there is no raid progression end game in WAR.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #170 on: October 04, 2008, 07:19:56 PM

There's going to be catass dungeon instances and raids, only thing is you'll need to capture an enemy city first to get to them. You spend your time pvp'ing so in the end you get to....PVE! yay.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
schild
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Reply #171 on: October 04, 2008, 07:21:36 PM

There are no Raids in WAR.
Seanzor
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Reply #172 on: October 04, 2008, 07:38:09 PM

It is quite obviously a bug and doing it gave you huge xp bonus and let your level very fast. 
It is quite obviously not a bug.  It's a piss-poor design decision, but it's not a bug.  Unless you really do think the "leave party" button just, whoops, slipped in there somehow.
I am exploiting a poor design choice, not a *bug*.  Pretty big difference.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #173 on: October 04, 2008, 08:09:20 PM

There are no Raids in WAR.

warbands, sorry unless you think there won't be warband fights or warband dungeons in pve....which they have said explicitly there would be.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Draegan
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Reply #174 on: October 04, 2008, 10:36:00 PM

You only need a warband to slay the King.  That's about it.
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