Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 03:34:33 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 20 21 [22] 23 24 ... 106 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online  (Read 755779 times)
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #735 on: November 15, 2012, 06:52:43 AM

This is the first I've heard of the game not meeting expectations. Source?

The game in Q3 financials sold less than Aion in Q1. It's comparable to the income they made on average for Lineage 1 in Q1-2 of 2012.

When you're talking about net effects to financials, the release of the game made them about $9M using their 20% margin rate before Other G/L unrelated to operating.

The point is that they were looking for a bump from sales to beat total earnings in Q3 2011. Even with an extra 45M won coming in from GW2, NC Soft still only tied their YTD revenue totals on the year, and their total operating Margins have plunged from 25% to 12% on the year. They put money into this thing and they only have 56M to show for it in operating profit. Last year they had over $118M on the same amount of total income.

As a result the stock took a hit. Price has gone from 344,000 to 162,500 in the matter of a year. Again, this isn't to say that GW2 didn't sell. It did, but they missed on the same PC gamer market where Diablo 3 sold over 8M copies, and WoW has 10M subs, and the investors answered those missed expectation with a selloff.
The NCSoft stock has been taking a hit because NCSoft's been screwing the pooch everywhere else. They have at least 2 other games in the pipeline eating up massive amoutns of development $. It's also why they had to close down COH. Expecting one game to save them from the failures and costly development of many other games is a bit much.

(and like I said before, GW2 isn't a pure box sale. Even for GW1, most of the income came from microtrans I think)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 06:55:51 AM by Zetor »

Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #736 on: November 15, 2012, 06:57:22 AM

I don't disagree that they are screwing the pooch elsewhere. That's part of why they expected GW2 to ride in on a white horse and save the day.

GW2 has not tapped the same market that it could because of its inherent limitations. Some of them are related to the foreign company, some of them are related to the gameplay, and some of them are related to the problems with distribution/lauch.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #737 on: November 15, 2012, 12:15:23 PM

So, you're guessing based on numbers rather than working on an actual statement of "We expected X dollars from GW2 and got Y"?

I'm not saying you might not be right but you sounded very ...factual about it, the first time.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Phred
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2025


Reply #738 on: November 15, 2012, 12:20:29 PM

GW2 dragon battles were terribly boring, though for the most part GW2 battles were more interesting than most tab targeting.
You guys need to come up with a new term that properly defines what you hate about MMO combat.

I don't hate tab combat, I hate GW2 dragon battles because they are shittly designed once you get past the "oooh neat" aspect, they don't require much skill or strategy, don't require much attention, and don't seem like it's possible to fail since they always have a zerg around them.

First, I agree with this. However, if you want pure boredom try a late night Jormag kill when there are very few people on. You're praying for the zerg because his huge f'ing hp don't scale much to crowd size. Also what little strategy seems required (dont stand on the blue patches) still seems to kill a lot of people. I don't think they really programmed a failure condition on dragons.
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #739 on: November 15, 2012, 12:25:06 PM

So, you're guessing based on numbers rather than working on an actual statement of "We expected X dollars from GW2 and got Y"?

I'm not saying you might not be right but you sounded very ...factual about it, the first time.

Well guessing is a bit harsh. I'm basing it on the expectation of the investor in regards to the financial performance of the company. A stock doesn't drop by half in a year because things are getting better, and it certainly doesn't fall off after an earnings release (with GW2 income in it) by 25% in less than a week. Although I'm sure I could pull an actual quote if A - they didn't want to charge me for a translated transcript of the call, or B - I knew Korean.

Per a statement in Massively - "NCsoft said that it is banking on Guild Wars 2 to produce a profitable third quarter." This was coming off a loss in Q2. While it did produce a positive Q3, it wasn't anywhere near as profitable as 2011 in terms of operating profit. I'd love to get more information, but the language barrier gets in the way.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Hawkbit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5531

Like a Klansman in the ghetto.


Reply #740 on: November 15, 2012, 03:14:55 PM

JFC, this is going to be another 200+ page thread by launch, isn't it?
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131


Reply #741 on: November 15, 2012, 03:58:15 PM

JFC, this is going to be another 200+ page thread by launch, isn't it?

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #742 on: November 15, 2012, 05:11:50 PM

The different style of combat has nothing to do with LoL's popularity vs. say WoW. It's the fact that you jump in with a character you don't have to level up, can get in and out of a match in seconds, you don't have to organize with other people to do stuff, you don't have to mess around with any long term planning or goals or anything.

Huh what?

MMOs like WoW are typically mechanically very shitty - they need the "stickyness" stuff like items and XP because without those the base game is fucking garbage.

LoL doesn't need traditional "stickyness" shit and "RPG elements" because the game itself is fundamentally fun to play.

Someone mentioned Borderlands  - good example of a game that NEEDS "RPG elements." Without leveling and a million different items the game would be garbage. Backpedal and shoot Skags for 40 hours straight - what a game! If you look at the vast majority of games that have "RPG elements" in them the RPG elements very obviously serve to paper over a game that would otherwise be way too thin. And MMOs are the extreme version of this - if you remove leveling and different items and such from MMOs and look at the base gameplay they are universally awful.

WoW could very easily make arena battle as accessible as LoL battle. (I'm not really up to date on WoW, so maybe it's already accessible for all I know) But if you tried to make WoW arena battles competitive in the sense where time spent in game didn't make a huge difference people would quickly realize that the base mechanics for fun skillful small group combat just aren't there.

I have been beating this drum for literally like 8 or so years now...the fundamental issues with MMOs is that the underlying mechanics just don't make for fun games. Now some MMOs are fun, because of the social interaction and the stuff layered on top and such, but the base mechanics of MMOs are just not enjoyable on their own. Most MMOs are mostly combat-based where the combat itself is terrible.

Quote
And all that stuff you *don't* have to do, is what MMO fans like about MMOs. It gives them a sense of 'this is my character' that all those other games utterly lack.

LoL is a competitive game, so allowing you to level up a character in a significant way over time is hard to do right. That said people do like to customize their characters with skins, characters do level up during the course of a game, you put points into skills, people on forums figure out which builds and items are best. A lot of it is like MMO leveling but on an extremely compressed time scale.

And I think if someone could figure out a way to do persistent character leveling in a way that didn't break balance people would love it.

Comparing LoL to WoW is a bit apples and oranges, but I think it's very fair to say that MMO base gameplay is pretty poor, and it's very hard for me to understand how making it better would be a bad thing. Forget even "tab targeting" vs twitch or whatever, even if you look turn based strategy and slower-paced management games MMO combat is still typically pretty bad as it's generally simple, repetitive and takes no real strategy of any kind.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 05:24:15 PM by Margalis »

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #743 on: November 15, 2012, 06:37:05 PM

Depends which mmog you play.

Wow has shallow mechanics but a lot of the older MMOGs don't. And the model could be made as complex as you want.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #744 on: November 15, 2012, 07:57:25 PM

Depends which mmog you play.

Wow has shallow mechanics but a lot of the older MMOGs don't. And the model could be made as complex as you want.

I suppose.  Maybe it is just current technological limitations, but it seems to me that most MMOs who have tried actiony content end up having to sack it for performance reasons, where it just feels a bit too sluggish to actually feel twitchy, so it is better to default back to the "turn based" combat of CRPGs which although boring, actually feels less sluggish (even when it is slower paced) because things respond consistently as expected.

I'd love to see what an MMO with Quake 3 combat looks/plays like, but I Just don't see it happening.
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #745 on: November 15, 2012, 08:17:52 PM

It also looked like NCsoft's Blade & Soul launch cannibalised their Lineage player base rather than brought in new players.

In some ways I think the market over-adjusted on NCsoft - their figures weren't that bad. However, they probably were pumped up by a lot of investors thinking that GW2 was going to raise the share price who all started dumping stock when it didn't. Which then became a flood.

Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192


Reply #746 on: November 15, 2012, 08:30:55 PM

Wow has shallow mechanics but a lot of the older MMOGs don't.
This really isn't an accurate criticism anymore.

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know as it ever has.  Most people just didn't see much high level play in early WoW unless they were in GM/HWL gear with maxed out engineering; or raiding BWL, AQ, and Naxx.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 08:38:53 PM by Sheepherder »
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #747 on: November 15, 2012, 08:35:47 PM

It also looked like NCsoft's Blade & Soul launch cannibalised their Lineage player base rather than brought in new players.

In some ways I think the market over-adjusted on NCsoft - their figures weren't that bad. However, they probably were pumped up by a lot of investors thinking that GW2 was going to raise the share price who all started dumping stock when it didn't. Which then became a flood.

That's pretty much my thought. While 2M in unit sales was good, it's not exactly mind-blowing when you take into account recent sales figures for games. It was more about missed expectations than GW2 not being a good game, but the game simply didn't tap a big enough market for those investors.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Phred
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2025


Reply #748 on: November 16, 2012, 12:56:49 AM



I'd love to see what an MMO with Quake 3 combat looks/plays like, but I Just don't see it happening.

Sort of like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tjK5OI2oAQ

When he says combat mode he means mod.
Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192


Reply #749 on: November 16, 2012, 02:11:15 AM

Neat.

I went and checked to see if you could do the same for WoW, unfortunately not easily.  The game doesn't register the @mouseover script condition when you are using mouselook, so you'd have to write some sort of external script that untoggles mouselook, selects what is under the cursor, and then toggles mouselook back on.  Then you'd get banned by Warden for being a bot. Ohhhhh, I see.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #750 on: November 16, 2012, 03:25:44 AM

"Tab targeting" or hotbar-based combat is not really a problem in itself, it just goes hand in hand with a certain type of design. Taking a hotkey / tab targeting game and making it so that pressing left mouse is the same as pressing 1 doesn't fundamentally change anything.

THe problem is that in MMOs tab targeting / hotbars almost always go along with idiotic punching-bag enemies, repetitive optimal combos that work on almost everyone, etc.

In many ways Xenoblade combat is MMO combat, you have what is basically a hotbar with abilities on timers. But in Xenoblade you manage 3 characters, there are a lot of position-dependent abilities, you need different skill setups to deal with different types of enemies, there is some on-the-fly adjustment needed with reviving guys and the premonition stuff, etc. Of course there are a lot of enemies that you can just run up to and pound on and beat, but there are a lot of enemies that are not major bosses that still take some finesse to take down without being "learn which spot not to stand in" gimmick battles.

Making combat more actiony / twitch may well be a good direction to go in, but my point is more that even staying in the realm of cooldowns / hot bars / tabbing MMO combat could still be much more interesting than it typically is.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043


Reply #751 on: November 16, 2012, 06:04:04 AM

Yup.  I said that two pages ago.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #752 on: November 16, 2012, 06:08:58 AM

And it wasn't really true then either. At least not for GW, CoX, Daoc or a bunch other games that aren't wow.

Some people even argue it isn't true for wow.

I do agree that more recent games have been trending down toward the overly simplistic though. Not everyone agrees.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 06:12:13 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043


Reply #753 on: November 16, 2012, 06:41:04 AM

And it wasn't really true then either. At least not for GW, CoX, Daoc or a bunch other games that aren't wow.

Some people even argue it isn't true for wow.

I do agree that more recent games have been trending down toward the overly simplistic though. Not everyone agrees.

Of course it's true, or you're not paying attention.
Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192


Reply #754 on: November 16, 2012, 04:08:13 PM

Hey Draegan, when's the last time you played WoW?
Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549


Reply #755 on: November 17, 2012, 06:12:45 PM


MMO players expect continued advancement of one character for hundreds of hours. So yeah, game play whether borderlands FPS, a twitch MMO like Tera or a more traditional tactical focus MMO is going to get elongated and repetitive. And they'll still weep when the road runs out. You want every battle to be a dynamic and unique set-piece that's fine but those games tend to have durations in the 10's of hours and are better suited to single-player.

PvP players are somewhat different. They're happy to play the same battle for years while they refine their execution and build up their character over-time. But this game-play gets very little from a persistent world MMO, the optimal persistent component is a game lobby and it doesn't need to be game-like. Indeed it tends to be damaged by the power creep and mechanics of a developing persistent world game. Which is why GW2 let's these people skip the MMO bit of the game.

Stop trying to turn all games into the same thing. MMO's are meant to be an achievement over time, PvP games are a short sharp battle and a killboard and adrenal set-piece combat suits single player.

Not that any of this is likely to be relevant to elder scrolls online.


Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2858


Reply #756 on: November 17, 2012, 07:16:45 PM

Stop trying to turn all games into the same thing. MMO's are meant to be an achievement over time, PvP games are a short sharp battle and a killboard and adrenal set-piece combat suits single player.

I agree that it's kind of pointless to design for everybody at this stage, since everybody already has a niche that's covered pretty well by an existing title.  That said, I do think PvP is the only way out for the genre, ultimately, since most PvE content tends to be done better, cheaper, and faster in a single player context.

Most PvE MMOs don't really have to be massively multiplayer, mechanically, I could play about 90% of World of Warcraft or it's myriad followers either single player or with a fairly small group (forty or less for just about everything non PvP).  I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen more "Minecraft"-style server setups in RPGs, where persistent worlds are set up and run by players, on dedicated servers with relatively low player counts.  Just about the only thing you NEED hundreds of people for is a big competitive market (which is peripheral to the orc killing in most MMOs), or a massive PvP war (which doesn't happen because nobody's figured out a way to do it without scaring the casuals).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 07:52:19 PM by Kail »
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #757 on: November 18, 2012, 04:27:57 PM

Stop trying to turn all games into the same thing. MMO's are meant to be an achievement over time, PvP games are a short sharp battle and a killboard and adrenal set-piece combat suits single player.

I agree that it's kind of pointless to design for everybody at this stage, since everybody already has a niche that's covered pretty well by an existing title.  That said, I do think PvP is the only way out for the genre, ultimately, since most PvE content tends to be done better, cheaper, and faster in a single player context.

Probably the easiest but not the only way. And certainly not the way that leads to the biggest money hat.

I've still not seen any mmog team put any real effort into a sustainable episodic content delivery process.

Yes, it is hard, and no, it hasn't been done well yet. But even TV soap operas demonstrate every day how it is perfectly possible to build content in a cheap and continuous stream, so long as your production team is properly organised.

Changes of strategy every three weeks and a the transparent lack of planning for post launch we've seen in every major mmog ever, clearly don't help.


And cooperative multiplayer is a bigger market than pvp, every single time.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 04:30:25 PM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #758 on: November 18, 2012, 04:43:28 PM



I'd love to see what an MMO with Quake 3 combat looks/plays like, but I Just don't see it happening.

Sort of like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tjK5OI2oAQ

When he says combat mode he means mod.


Looks decent.  Reminds me of Champions Online, which had (has I suppose) a control scheme similar to that which you could turn on.  It was pretty fun for some builds, but barely usable for others.   I guess at the end of the day I'm looking for an MMORPG which dispenses with most of the gameplay conventions of CRPGs.  I guess something like Darkfall combat, but more polished so as not to feel clunky.  In fact, now that I think about it, Darkfall combat is probably pretty close ot what I'm looking for, just as a model for the sake of discussion. 
Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2858


Reply #759 on: November 18, 2012, 07:50:12 PM

I've still not seen any mmog team put any real effort into a sustainable episodic content delivery process.

Sure, I'm just not 100% on the reason why you'd develop an MMO specifically around episodic content like that.  It seems like a better fit for something like a Neverwinter Nights or a Dragon Age, a smaller scale game that doesn't have to worry about all the problems that you get as an MMO, everything from issues with player agency and balancing to the nightmare technical problems and social issues.

I just get the feeling that, rather than looking at the MMO genre as a whole and saying "we have hundreds of players interacting here, how can we make a fun and unique game out of that" or looking at their epic story based RPG and saying "what kind of format would be the best way to develop and sell this game", the typical thought process behind the design pitch begins and ends with the idea of getting $15.00 per player per month, and trying to justify that expense to the player, which seems like a backwards way to design anything.
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #760 on: November 18, 2012, 10:15:16 PM

How many of the people clamoring for actiony combat in this thread have tried GW2, btw? (free weekend going on now)

For example, on my staff elementalist the only real use of tab targetting is to see if something's out of range / what debuffs etc. it has. Basically all of my skills are ground targeted and/or 'skill shots'...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 10:17:06 PM by Zetor »

Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2858


Reply #761 on: November 18, 2012, 10:50:52 PM

How many of the people clamoring for actiony combat in this thread have tried GW2, btw? (free weekend going on now)

Not I, admittedly.  I plan on picking it up eventually, but haven't gotten around to it yet (combination of money and *effort*).  Currently trying to get TERA to work, so maybe once that snags I'll get around to it.  I like a lot of the things I've heard about it, I just haven't been able to convince myself to drop $50 on it yet, for some reason.
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #762 on: November 19, 2012, 01:39:08 AM

Yeah, GW2 is way twitchier than most of the stuff out there, especially cause it's one of the few MMORPGs where you can shoot everything regardless of the target and, most importantly, you can completely waste a cooldown whenever you cast/shoot on a target that is (or just went) out of range. Tab-targeting, while present if you want to use it, is really close to non existence at this point.

I've been re-re-re-trying Tera these days, but it's the first time I'm doing it since GW2 came out. Most significant difference is that in GW2 you can't miss with ranged single target attacks (if you have nothing tab targeted your arrow/spell goes for the first available target), unless they are out of maximum range, while in Tera you literally have a crosshair and have to keep your enemy in it the whole time, with every single shot.

GW2 is a big step forward from the usual MMORPG combat if you ask me, I can't even think of going back to a game where I can only use a skill if I have a target selected or if they are in range. That has been my biggest gripe since the 90s, the disconnect between what I wanted to do (draw a sword and swing it) and the impossibility to do so regardless of target.

But Tera, while still a bit slower than your generic console action-RPG (attacks tend to root you in place for a few instants) is definitely twitchier and presents a much more visceral kind of combat.

To put it simple, you can say what you want but the traditional MMORPG-hotbar combat has always been just a glorified whack-a-mole where you use your mouse clicks to whack the moles (hotbar skills) as soon as they pop up (cooldowns) according to a pre-determined (most efficient rotation) and never changing pattern. GW doesn't break this mold, it just starts to stretch it a bit, like Age of Conan did.

In Tera, your left mouse button swings your weapon (for the record, I tried to remap this into GW2, you can't). There are still some moles to whack (a hotbar with some cooldowns) but the focus is on aiming (the crosshair is present for melee attacks too, and mouselook is on by default) at your enemy, and actively avoiding their attacks by moving around and away from their attack animations (right mouse button doesn't fiddle with the camera, it's an active dodge roll instead). Health regen between fights is very slow, so you are not gonna rely on your Defense Rating to prevent annoying downtime, you have to rely on dodging blows and avoid getting hit, like in Golden Axe, Final Fight or Double Dragon if you know what I mean.

I am sure there's a big market for both kinds of MMORPG combat. It's just that the action kind has been underrepresented so far due to technical limitations, but it's hard not to think that's going to change and make a huge impact in the genre.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 01:46:38 AM by Falconeer »

Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #763 on: November 19, 2012, 02:12:37 AM

Just as a note about GW2 projectiles, you CAN miss if the target moves behind LOS after you launched the missile ('obstructed') and in many cases you can side-step projectiles too without needing to move out of range or LOS by changing your movement direction/speed between the time of firing and impact (slow-moving projectiles like the staff fireball are a good way to test this, but some people reported being able to pseudo-dodge the rapid-fire volley used by the karka this way too). It is also possible to body-block projectiles; I do it all the time on my elementalist - pop my projectile reflect skill and stand in front of an ally getting nuked. You also don't automatically target a nearby mob with target skills if the 'auto-target' function is turned off in options.

GW1 was also pretty twitchy projectile attack-wise even back in 2005 - see here for general projectile mechanics and here for different types of bows and how arcing / weapon speed / positional bonus damage / etc works with them. FWIW, this made me and my 400ms latency hate playing a ranger.  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 02:22:30 AM by Zetor »

eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #764 on: November 19, 2012, 04:42:18 AM

I know we've covered this but I have never played the MMOG you speak of where players simply run their rotation.

My defiler in eq 2 had 49 buttons and only 2 of them were anything remotely like a rotation.

There are games and classes with a greater or lesser amount of variety, and the genre could certainly use more, especially for solo or lower level play; but what you are saying simply isn't my experience.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #765 on: November 19, 2012, 05:40:27 AM

And I never played the MMORPG without rotations.

You have to admit though that I am not the one who invented the term rotation, right? Are you really gonna argue that when you are max level (in pretty much any MMORPG) you are honestly using different skills based on the mob, outside of just acknowleding that they are ranged or not, one or more (which means you are simply gonna pick a different rotation)?

Fine, I guess, but that's not my experience either.

Also, trivia time, as far as I know the "whack a mole" expression MMO-wise was coined specifically around EQ2 about 8 years ago. Personally, I played the hell out of that game in 2005, and I remember that unless you had unexpected mobs "adding" to an encounter, you definitely had to whack-a-mole your most efficient rotations for literally hours and hours. Maybe it was a defiler thing. It might be a bit different for healing classes, as the need for a heal or a purge can interpolate in your rotations, but I have a hard time believing you were dynamically playing your 49 skills.

As a last note, I'd say EQ2 was a much more layered and complicated (and hard) PvE MMORPG than the ones we have now. For the most parts, I'd say hotbars or not they have been massively dumbed down, and rotations and macros are now considered features, shrines to the god of Repetition.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 05:43:11 AM by Falconeer »

eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #766 on: November 19, 2012, 05:55:52 AM

I'd definitely agree complexity has declined since 2004 .

We don't even have enchanters any more. People have forgotten what the 'trinity' even means.

But even in wowalike swtor in pugs at max level people still have to mark certain mobs for cc, use strategies like knock backs, assess which mobs are strong against which abilities, manage interrupts, as well as understand boss strategies beyond "don't stand in fire".

 I completely agree there should be more of this. And synergies between classes, more environmental features, more options in character build to influence play style.

But no one is going to tell me torchlight, Diablo, elder scrolls, or other action RPGs have less mindless button mashing.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #767 on: November 19, 2012, 06:06:48 AM

I agree that boss fights are a different story. Sadly, they are like what, 5% of the whole experience for even the most dedicated players?

Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #768 on: November 19, 2012, 07:56:39 AM

How many of the people clamoring for actiony combat in this thread have tried GW2, btw? (free weekend going on now)

For example, on my staff elementalist the only real use of tab targetting is to see if something's out of range / what debuffs etc. it has. Basically all of my skills are ground targeted and/or 'skill shots'...

I have guild wars 2.  The combat is more fun than most MMORPG combat for sure.  Dodging is nice.  I don't particularly like the pacing of the combat on a large scale, but it isn't terrible.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043


Reply #769 on: November 19, 2012, 11:34:37 AM

Hey Draegan, when's the last time you played WoW?

Seriously or for a single session?

I was at my fathers a few weeks ago and tried my hands on a monk.  What's the point though? 
Pages: 1 ... 20 21 [22] 23 24 ... 106 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC