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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online  (Read 755856 times)
Draegan
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Reply #245 on: May 16, 2012, 07:37:46 AM


Judging from your post, you aren't the target audience.  I can say that unless they completely botch this game and it performs awfully with constant crashes or something, many of us will be buying for 1 of 3 reasons:
1 - It might be the spiritual successor to DAOC
2 - It's a chance to really explore Tamriel in a social environment
3 - We are not impressed with the current crop of MMO's and don't mind trying something else

I fit all 3 of those categories, so, yeah, I'll probably be there.

Why people see 3 factions and automatically think it's a DAOC successor is beyond me.  It's no different than saying if WOW added a third faction, it's automatically DAOC.
Xuri
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Reply #246 on: May 16, 2012, 08:02:48 AM

3 - We are not impressed with the current crop of MMO's and don't mind trying something else
Yeah, see - that's where it all falls apart. From what they've described so far, this ISN'T "something else". It's not an Elder Scrolls game, and it's not "something else". It's a rehash/mashup of DIKU-muds we've already played. Just re-arranging bits and pieces here and there does not "something else" make.

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Paelos
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Reply #247 on: May 16, 2012, 08:04:26 AM

I sent a detailed email to Bethesda and Zenimax today suggesting that they reconsider this project.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
blackwulf
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Reply #248 on: May 16, 2012, 08:20:36 AM

Why people see 3 factions and automatically think it's a DAOC successor is beyond me.  It's no different than saying if WOW added a third faction, it's automatically DAOC.

C'mon, Draegan - you run a network of gaming sites and that's the best you can come up with?  People are thinking this might be more like DAOC than, for instance, WOW with 3 factions because:
1 - it DOES have 3 factions
2 - it's being made by Matt Firor and many of the original DAOC RVR programmers
3 - those guys had nothing to do with WAR, having left Mythic prior to that
4 - the system of interrupts, endurance management and style chains described sounds much like DAOC combat with a new polish
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:22:41 AM by blackwulf »
blackwulf
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Reply #249 on: May 16, 2012, 08:25:43 AM

I sent a detailed email to Bethesda and Zenimax today suggesting that they reconsider this project.

I'm sure they'll get your email and immediately notify their investors that they are halting the project.  Surely there's no need to worry about hundreds of millions of dollars spent, or the product of 250 employees working for 5 years being tossed down a drain because of how one very influential emailer felt when he read some pre-release info!
Draegan
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Reply #250 on: May 16, 2012, 08:40:16 AM

Why people see 3 factions and automatically think it's a DAOC successor is beyond me.  It's no different than saying if WOW added a third faction, it's automatically DAOC.

C'mon, Draegan - you run a network of gaming sites and that's the best you can come up with?  People are thinking this might be more like DAOC than, for instance, WOW with 3 factions because:
1 - it DOES have 3 factions
2 - it's being made by Matt Firor and many of the original DAOC RVR programmers
3 - those guys had nothing to do with WAR, having left Mythic prior to that
4 - the system of interrupts, endurance management and style chains described sounds much like DAOC combat with a new polish

1 - So what?  WOW and DAOC both had swords, spells and classes.  Doesn't mean anything.  Just because all games have gone with two factions and we now have a new future game with a third faction, doesn't just make it special.

2 - Doesn't mean anything.  TES doesn't scream PVP to me at all.  I look to game devs for systems they design not over all game schemes.  Plus who trusts MMO game devs anyway?

3 - I don't see why this was brought up.

4 - This could be said about any game on the market now.  A system will skills, skills that can stop other skills, class mechanics that you manage, and chained abilities.  Shrug.

I know you're a fanboy and all, but come the fuck on.
blackwulf
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Reply #251 on: May 16, 2012, 08:52:49 AM

1 - So what?  WOW and DAOC both had swords, spells and classes.  Doesn't mean anything.  Just because all games have gone with two factions and we now have a new future game with a third faction, doesn't just make it special.
You never played DAOC?  Three factions are important.  You saying it is nothing special shows a fundamental lack of understanding.

2 - Doesn't mean anything.  TES doesn't scream PVP to me at all.  I look to game devs for systems they design not over all game schemes.  Plus who trusts MMO game devs anyway?
You asked why people are bringing up comparisons to DAOC.  I think the idea that this game is being made, largely, by ex-DAOC devs is an important part of the reason.

3 - I don't see why this was brought up.
It's called anticipating objections.

4 - This could be said about any game on the market now.  A system will skills, skills that can stop other skills, class mechanics that you manage, and chained abilities.  Shrug.
Again, if you played DAOC, you'd understand the difference.

I know you're a fanboy and all, but come the fuck on.
Ad hominem doesn't make you seem smarter or right.  You asked a specific question, I explained the answer to you.
HaemishM
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Reply #252 on: May 16, 2012, 08:54:06 AM

It's a bit surreal to see someone besides Bloodworth white-knighting a game that is obviously doomed from the word go, even moreso to see Bloodworth pointing out how bad of an idea this is.

Modern Angel
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Reply #253 on: May 16, 2012, 08:57:11 AM

Blackwulf, shut up.
Draegan
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Reply #254 on: May 16, 2012, 08:58:59 AM

Can you stop replying to people that way?  It's fucking annoying. I'm going to ignore the rest of your silliness.
blackwulf
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Reply #255 on: May 16, 2012, 09:03:50 AM

Okay, by popular demand, I will take my optimism and F off.  I'll refrain from posting in here, until a lot more info is available, and I'll either come back to:

A: Say, "I told you so."

-or-

B: Say, "You guys were so right, can't believe I am such a sap."

Cheers, and have fun with your grumpy, negative lives, you bunch of losers.

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Xuri
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Reply #256 on: May 16, 2012, 09:12:35 AM

 Popcorn

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HaemishM
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Reply #257 on: May 16, 2012, 09:22:30 AM

I'm sorry, blackwulf, I couldn't understand you with Matt Firor's cock in your mouth.

Seriously, your entire point seems to be that Matt Firor was involved and their press releases said that every feature they cribbed off every other MMO that has come out is somehow new and miraculous. I'm willing to admit that I could be totally wrong - it's happened before. I thought Shadowbane would be a depressing mess of griefing and shittastic play (I wasn't totally wrong, it was that but that wasn't what killed the game - face-fucking bugs were) but I ended up enjoying the shit out of it until I couldn't take the bugs anymore.

But early days with the information that's been released? It looks like Alganon with a popular IP and without the Good Doctor to save it.

Daeven
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Reply #258 on: May 16, 2012, 09:32:19 AM

3 - We are not impressed with the current crop of MMO's and don't mind trying something else
Yeah, see - that's where it all falls apart. From what they've described so far, this ISN'T "something else". It's not an Elder Scrolls game, and it's not "something else". It's a rehash/mashup of DIKU-muds we've already played. Just re-arranging bits and pieces here and there does not "something else" make.

Yes yes. But its Fuchsia now! Of course its all spangly and new you silly person. It's not like they went all rabid and added STRIPES!

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

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Daeven
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Reply #259 on: May 16, 2012, 09:37:36 AM

Okay, by popular demand, I will take my optimism and F off.  I'll refrain from posting in here, until a lot more info is available, and I'll either come back to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #260 on: May 16, 2012, 10:01:16 AM

I still can't find any redeeming value in this conversion from TES style and combat. To Standard fair MMO combat. Regardless of my opinion of it.

Why would you do that? Who are you talking to? Have they played the other TES games?

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Ingmar
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Reply #261 on: May 16, 2012, 11:00:26 AM

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want TES combat in an MMO. It has never been good, Skyrim is the first time it has even achieved "passable".

EDIT: Same for the character building, for that matter.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 11:34:30 AM by Ingmar »

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Modern Angel
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Reply #262 on: May 16, 2012, 11:28:21 AM

Okay, by popular demand, I will take my optimism and F off.  I'll refrain from posting in here, until a lot more info is available, and I'll either come back to:

Oh no! Not... that guy! He was such a pillar of the community over the years, contributing to so many discussions!

Please rethink this.
Paelos
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Reply #263 on: May 16, 2012, 12:19:18 PM

Cheers, and have fun with your grumpy, negative lives, you bunch of losers.

Tell Matty F we said lulz.

Of course, you were that guy with such glorious opinions as "MMO SKILLBAR COMBAT??? FUCK YEAH, BONER ACHIEVED!!!"

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
koro
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Reply #264 on: May 16, 2012, 12:23:43 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want TES combat in an MMO. It has never been good, Skyrim is the first time it has even achieved "passable".

EDIT: Same for the character building, for that matter.

Nobody wants TES combat in an MMO because nobody wants a TES MMO except for Zenimax. For the past ten+ years, all anyone's wanted is Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, but with co-op.

And the combat's fine in TES anyway. It's no Dark Messiah (whose combat was vastly overrated) or Mount & Blade, but it did what it was designed to do just fine.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 12:25:29 PM by koro »
Rokal
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Reply #265 on: May 16, 2012, 12:41:27 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want TES combat in an MMO. It has never been good, Skyrim is the first time it has even achieved "passable".

I liked Skyrim's combat. It was certainly more fun and less stale than SWTOR's, for example, which was the last attempt at copying WoW's combat.

That said, we want TES combat because we're talking about a TES MMO. It's a core part of the series and it shouldn't be stripped out just because they're adding more players.

Mass Effect combat has never been amazing (though it's certainly gotten better). I'd still be disappointed if they announced a Mass Effect MMO that ditched the third-person-shooting in favor of tab-target action bar combat.
Ingmar
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Reply #266 on: May 16, 2012, 12:43:45 PM

It shouldn't be stripped out because they're adding more players, it should be stripped out because it sucks.

Mass Effect combat (post-ME1) isn't even in the same universe of shitty.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Rokal
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Reply #267 on: May 16, 2012, 12:51:20 PM

Or they could continue to improve it. Would Mass Effect have been better off if after 1 Bioware said "Man, we suck at making shooters, lets just go to back to KOTOR combat"?

They slowly improved it with 2 and 3 and what we have right now with ME3 is much more entertaining than KOTOR's combat. Skyrim's combat is likewise a large improvement over Oblivion/Morrowind. You don't completely scrap the gameplay that has been the foundation of your series just because it's not perfect yet or you're adding more players.

TESO's combat design is an embarrassing cop-out
Ingmar
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Reply #268 on: May 16, 2012, 12:55:11 PM

Conversely KOTOR's combat is more entertaining than even Skyrim's, and prior versions of TES combat don't even enter the conversation. The difference? Melee combat.

The only game that's ever come close to making 'action' first person melee combat work, IMO, is Mount & Blade, and frankly the difficulty curve there for non-mounted melee is well beyond what the average player wants to deal with I'd guess. Even there the multiplayer combat is a horrible mess of circle strafing and such.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Rokal
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Reply #269 on: May 16, 2012, 12:59:04 PM

Zenoclash and Condemned are both great examples of first-person melee combat.
Ingmar
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Reply #270 on: May 16, 2012, 01:16:45 PM

I'll have to take your word on those, I haven't played either. Amend my previous statement to include 'that I've played' somewhere in it.

Do they have multiplayer?

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #271 on: May 16, 2012, 01:17:36 PM

Conversely KOTOR's combat is more entertaining than even Skyrim's

Your opinion may not match the populace on this one.

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Zetor
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Reply #272 on: May 16, 2012, 01:20:04 PM

I found the Fallout 3 combat system passable (and it was even better in FNV... yeah I know, obsidian), so bethesda -can- make an ok combat system if they're forced to.

I also remember a mod for oblivion [deadly reflex?] that added a lot of variety to combat with various acrobatic moves, combos, and the like. I have yet to get more than 2-3 hours into oblivion to have an opinion on that, though  awesome, for real

Ingmar
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Reply #273 on: May 16, 2012, 01:27:38 PM

The difference, with FO3, is guns. TES games do ranged combat fine. Melee in FO3 is really only made viable by VATS, which wouldn't really be possible in a multiplayer game.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Rokal
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Reply #274 on: May 16, 2012, 01:39:25 PM

Do they have multiplayer?

Condemned 2 and Zenoclash both have MP that works pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD3o6gtetDc

Skip to 3:30 for an example of what weapon combat looks like. Condemned 1/2 were both actually pretty great games, and the first to really nail first-person melee combat (imo). A shame we probably won't see any more of them.
Lucas
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Reply #275 on: May 16, 2012, 01:59:55 PM

Cheers, and have fun with your grumpy, negative lives, you bunch of losers.

Tell Matty F we said lulz.

Of course, you were that guy with such glorious opinions as "MMO SKILLBAR COMBAT??? FUCK YEAH, BONER ACHIEVED!!!"

Damnit blackwulf, you could have made a more glorious exit, like "and beware, F13'ers: look to your posts, because the internet is dark and full of Firor, Fries, terrors"...Or something :P. Geeze.
------

And here is the Aldmeri Dominion (Altmer, Bosmer, Khajiit) faction profile:

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_online/b/pc/archive/2012/05/16/elder-scrolls-online-faction-profile-aldmeri-dominion.aspx

Quote
“The name says it all. The Aldmeri Dominion wants to dominate the world. They plan on taking over the world. Submit or die,” explains game director Matt Firor. “The Aldmeri Dominion is like, ‘we’re going to kill everyone that isn’t us. You people are going to help us or else.’”

That's HEAVY, dude. Rawr.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 02:06:15 PM by Lucas »

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Ingmar
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Reply #276 on: May 16, 2012, 02:11:05 PM

I somehow hadn't cottoned onto the fact that you can't play an Imperial until now. That makes me go  Ohhhhh, I see..

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Paelos
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Reply #277 on: May 16, 2012, 02:13:59 PM

I somehow hadn't cottoned onto the fact that you can't play an Imperial until now. That makes me go  Ohhhhh, I see..

Me either  awesome, for real

Man the fail is strong with this game.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Daeven
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Reply #278 on: May 16, 2012, 04:00:48 PM

Quote
“The name says it all. The Aldmeri Dominion wants to dominate the world. They plan on taking over the world. Submit or die,” explains game director Matt Firor. “The Aldmeri Dominion is like, ‘we’re going to kill everyone that isn’t us. You people are going to help us or else.’”

That's HEAVY, dude. Rawr.

Well, see, they're a DOMINION. And they're like, angry. Angry elves who like to dominate.

Fuck. Its a BDSM club run by elves.

I see how they'll sell the game now.

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
Sheepherder
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Reply #279 on: May 16, 2012, 11:54:00 PM

I somehow hadn't cottoned onto the fact that you can't play an Imperial until now. That makes me go  Ohhhhh, I see..

I'm still having a hard time getting over the Orc/Redguard/Breton and Dunmer/Nord/Argonian love-ins.  Yes, I get they chose the second era because it's a blank slate, and they can arguably do something completely contradictory to all standing lore in it.  A better solution would have been anything else.
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