Battlestar Galactica

[Abagadro]

I think that had the highest exposition per minute ratio of any hour of TV I've ever seen.

[tazelbain]

So you have never seen the Gilmore Girls?

[rattran]

"I'm a Mac."
"And I'm a brain surgeon."

That was all I could think of for that whole scene.

And wtf? So there are 13? Are they going to introduce a new character this late, or will it end up being Kara anyway?

[Abagadro]

So you have never seen the Gilmore Girls?

I said exposition, not worthless blather.

[tazelbain]

I knew it.  Kara is a trany!

[Lum]

I would guess they set up the new #7 model for two reasons, both kind of silly - there isn't a Seven in the numbering scheme, and to screw with the viewer and make them think OMGSTARBUCKCYLON.

An interesting bit which wasn't explicitly stated but implied, and has some repercussions - there's no 'hidden resurrection facility' for the final five. They use the same one as everyone else (and not out of some mystical We Don't Know They Exist directives, but simply because Cavil-er-John just was using them as his meat puppet show). And that was blown to hell a few episodes back. If any of the final five die, they will also poof - and more importantly, it does exactly frack to explain what happened to Starbuck.

[Abagadro]

it does exactly frack to explain what happened to Starbuck.

Starbuck died and came back in the original series too. I suspect a similar explanation for both.

[HaemishM]

That was an extremely dense dense episode. I had to watch the scenes with Anders' exposition twice, and I'm still not sure I got it. Glad I wasn't wrong in thinking the addition of a #7 Daniel model was a 13th model. And I sure didn't get that whole Temple explanation. Maybe if we hadn't spent two episodes in a useless mutiny, they might could have let some of this explanation breathe.

[Abagadro]

Temple was part of the original exodus of the 13th tribe. Cavil thought the Final 5 had jiggered it up and that is what caused what the 3 saw, but Ellen indicated it was an outside force causing the visions.

[Evil Elvis]

Christ, they really had no clue where they were going with this show.  I put up with episode after episode of Baltar's harem, Starbuck's love triangles, Lee being a captain/lawyer/senator/pilot/president/not prez/prez again, and then they up and have friggin Ellen and Anders explain almost everything in one episode?

Fuck that.

[Tale]

The internet must write us a detailed Battlestar Galactica timeline.

Speaking of time, Boomer and Ellen jumped out four months ago. Wonder what they've been doing?

[Tale]

Interesting thread about Daniel which uses SPOILERS for Caprica and potentially therefore also BSG: http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/1493420.html

Twitter channel of John Hodgman ("and I'm a PC/brain surgeon"): http://twitter.com/hodgman

[Merusk]

The internet must write us a detailed Battlestar Galactica timeline.

Speaking of time, Boomer and Ellen jumped out four months ago. Wonder what they've been doing?

I thought there was a "Two Days Ago" at the bottom of the screen when Boomer walked in for that last scene.

[Tale]

The internet must write us a detailed Battlestar Galactica timeline.

Speaking of time, Boomer and Ellen jumped out four months ago. Wonder what they've been doing?

I thought there was a "Two Days Ago" at the bottom of the screen when Boomer walked in for that last scene.

Ah, you're right. I missed that.

[palmer_eldritch]

It looks like the Galactica is going to become a very literal symbol of human and cylon society merging.

Was the name "Daniel" used before this episode?

[rattran]

I think it's simply a downside of the continual 'making shit up as we go' problem in the show. 'There are 12 models' except later we find out there's only 7, plus 5 unknowns. Constant changing of characters motivations to fit plot twists. Sure, Cavil put Ellen on Galactica to keep the final 5 together, but Anders was stuck on Caprica at the time. Make the chief a cylon, oh shit, the kid is half-cylon. Nevermind, make his wife a slut.

I'm expecting that the resurrection facility the 5 used on Earth is still out there, staffed with the final 5 copies and that's what spat Kara (mk2) out. I wouldn't be surprised if it's been following along shepherding the exodus/trip to Earth. And it'll lead the fleet to Eath2. (Clancy Brown not included)

[Rishathra]

So it seems to me that humans and Cylons could have potentially gotten along just fine, if it weren't for Cavil's meddling and drum beating.

That was a lot of exposition, but at least this time they did a good job of it.  It was at the very least an improvement on their usual "oh shit we forgot to move the plot forward for half a season let's get shit going!" episodes they've done in the past.

[Engels]

Ya, a bit too much bitching in this thread.

[NowhereMan]

One thing I really didn't get was why it was only Tigh, Tyrol, Dee and Starbuck who were listening to Sam. Noone else seems to care that he's remembered about earth and some of the reasons why all this happened. I'd have assumed the other Cylons would desperately want to know or at least Adama would be curious about what had happened to Saul.

[Engels]

cuz its highschool and those others aren't as cool as the final 5

[Venkman]

Ya, a bit too much bitching in this thread.

Only bitching I have is that that I read this post before watching and none newer than that:

I think that had the highest exposition per minute ratio of any hour of TV I've ever seen.

But instead of "exposition", I read "explosion". So every minute after Tyrel requested "no more jumps for awhile", I expected the bad guys to catch up for some big pew pew. Instead I got 20 minutes of Voldemort vs Gaia 

Wasn't a bad episode. Did have the feel of them finally realizing the end is nigh and they need to start wrapping things up. But I'll take wrapping things up over "erp, it was all just a dream" final-rushed-outcome" any day.

[Ratman_tf]

So... anyone else think that the Cylons are the 13th tribe of humanity? I mean, they are all humans, just "advanced" with their ressurection tech. The first models we saw were the creations of the "final five" via them enslaving the Centurions of the 12 colonies. And they also started tinkering with the Centurions (putting in the inhibitor chips) and creating the bio-mechanical Raiders.

[Oban]

So... anyone else think that the Cylons are the 13th tribe of humanity? I mean, they are all humans, just "advanced" with their ressurection tech. The first models we saw were the creations of the "final five" via them enslaving the Centurions of the 12 colonies. And they also started tinkering with the Centurions (putting in the inhibitor chips) and creating the bio-mechanical Raiders.

Did you even watch the show?

[KallDrexx]

Ok I haven't seen anyone mention this so I watned to make sure I didn't make it up while watching the episode.

Didn't Sam say there were 8 models not 7?  So Kara could still be a cylon, right?

[palmer_eldritch]

Yeah he said that, and then the people he was talking to - including Kara - started glowing, in a similar way to the final five in the temple. This was possibly because his brain was exploding at the time, but it seemed like it might mean something important even so.

But I also thought the missing cylon who was murdered by Cavil was called Daniel and was male. I might be wrong, I'm getting confused by the whole thing.

However, Daniel was Ellen's favourite, so perhaps she somehow re-made him as a woman or something . . .

He was artistic, and we know Kara likes painting on her apartment wall.

[tazelbain]

Daniel could be Kara's father.

[TripleDES]

Yeah he said that, and then the people he was talking to - including Kara - started glowing, in a similar way to the final five in the temple. This was possibly because his brain was exploding at the time, but it seemed like it might mean something important even so.

Over in the episode thread at SA, someone that had seizures before claimed that's how you'll supposedly perceive having one. So I'll settle for bog standard seizure.

[Tale]

Daniel could be Kara's father.

Daniel: If you only knew the power of the one true god. Adama never told you what happened to your father.
Starbuck: He told me enough! He told me he played piano!
Daniel: No. I am your father.
Starbuck: No...that's not true! That's impossible!
Daniel: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Starbuck: FRAK YOu!

[NowhereMan]

So... anyone else think that the Cylons are the 13th tribe of humanity? I mean, they are all humans, just "advanced" with their ressurection tech. The first models we saw were the creations of the "final five" via them enslaving the Centurions of the 12 colonies. And they also started tinkering with the Centurions (putting in the inhibitor chips) and creating the bio-mechanical Raiders.

What Oban said. The Final Five seem to be the survivors of the 13th colony who had their consciousness load into artificial bodies when they got wiped out (presumably by Cylons they created and mistreated). They then travelled for thousands of years to stop the other 12 following suit and arrived at the height of the Human-Cylon war. They convinced the Centurions to make peace and in return offered to help them build skin jobs (Centurions on their own had managed hybrids). They didn't enslave the centurions, rather they hoped that the Centurion's religion (it's them that introduced the monotheism) would allow them to overcome the bitterness of war and the human-cylons would be able to live in peace with the humans, breaking the cycle of violence. Cavil was their first and obviously is a little unhinged, the 7th isn't Starbuck but some artist named Daniel that gets Abled by Cavil's Cain.

What's interesting is that there's obviously some other sort of resurrection facility, doesn't Cavil mention something about the colony when he talks about the resurrection ship? It sounds like there's something else around that can do it. Also on Starbuck, if the Five had originally been human and 'uploaded' it seems possible that Starbuck did die on earth but some similar facility was able to place her into a Cylon body. She might not be one of the Final Five or original skinjobs but that doesn't mean she isn't a 'Cylon'.

[Surlyboi]

There's something else that might be able to do it, if properly repaired.

That said, one of the best summations of the episode came from the mini-recap over at TWOP...

So Brother John Cavil gives a fairly moving and convincing speech for why he's so pissed off, and you finally get Cavil: he's basically like Pinocchio going, "Really? Lederhosen? Fuckin' forever?" Only instead of singing a little song about it and kicking Ellen in her shapely Gepetto shins, he knowingly and nastily:

Destroyed utterly the life and civilizations on twelve planets, burnt the knowledge of their creators out of his brothers and sisters, killed Daniel and boxed Three, wiped and boxed the Final Five just to make sure they ended up in the holocaust, had a day-long conversation with Chief about how he wasn't a Cylon even though he totally was, tried his best to kill off the idea of God(s) Himself(s), plucked out his father's eyeball, and fucked his own mother while she was in mortal mode on New Caprica. Moral of story? You Never Fuck With Pinocchio. Welcome to the last act of the last season of the very best TV show of all time, and here's your Dramamine.

[Nevermore]

The problem with Starbuck is not only do we not know how she came back, we don't know how the 'original' ended up on Earth to begin with (dead or alive).  She didn't just disappear, Apollo saw her viper implode in the atmosphere of that gas giant.  Her resurrection wouldn't be that hard to explain given that organic uploading is possible, but how did that body get on Earth?  And where did the new viper, complete with coordinates to Earth, come from?

[Khaldun]

Possibly resurrection works for anyone, human, Cylon, hybrid, whatever: it's not a machine thing, it's a consciousness thing. So maybe somehow Starbuck knew the "dial-up" for the resurrection machinery near Earth, which the Final Five also used, and she went through it when she 'died'. However, that still raises the question of how her body and ship got to Earth and who gave her a new Viper. My thought is that there are others at the existing, working resurrection machinery near Earth--maybe humans and Cylons who've reached some kind of accord, who are waiting to see if the Galactica fleet and rebel Cylons can come to the same understanding or connection.

Here's a question about Helen, though: why was she such a bitchy and power-grabbing slut as a human with no memory? That's the part that doesn't really work: Cavil not only wiped their memories but gave them totally different personalities? wut?

[Reg]

Here's a question about Helen, though: why was she such a bitchy and power-grabbing slut as a human with no memory? That's the part that doesn't really work: Cavil not only wiped their memories but gave them totally different personalities? wut?

I think that her personality was pretty much unchanged but that her loss of memory made her emphasize different parts of it. When she was on Galactica she didn't have the knowledge that made her a major scientist and researcher so she emphasized the slutty, drunken side of her personality. Once she had all of her memories back she suddenly had other things to concern herself about so those aspects took a back seat.  Even with all of her memories one the first things she did when Cavil showed up was demand a drink.

[Nevermore]

So what if Six and Baltar actually died on Caprica, and head-Six and Head-Baltar are the results of some king of botched download?  The only way for that to happen is if Baltar is also a Cylon (unlikely) or something like whatever Kara is.

Also a prediction:  Boomer is either unwittingly or complicitly going to lead Cavil's cylon faction to Galactica.

[Oban]

Also a prediction:  Boomer is either unwittingly or complicitly going to lead Cavil's cylon faction to Galactica.

I briefly thought this as well, but how would Ellen know where the fleet is now?  On the other side if Boomer knows where the fleet is, then John sure as hell does too.


Edit, lawl.