President of EA enjoys delicious taste of crack!

[WindupAtheist]

Asian shards all have Trammel, and always have.
Except for Mugen, which is the Asian side's Siege, with no modifications.
You are a dumbfuck.

Read up on it?  Asshole, I've made characters on Asian shards.

[Calandryll]

Asian shards all have Trammel and have since Trammel launched or at least, very soon after. Now, many of the Asian shards did launch without Trammel, but that was because most of them launched before Trammel existed. With the release of UO:R they were all upgraded to Trammel. Mugen has SP rules with one difference...it also has Trammel.

[WindupAtheist]

Well it has a landmass called Trammel, even though you can still attack people there.  Anyway, that aside, I wonder why EA shitcanned Sims Online instead of rolling it into the elderly MMO retirement home along with UO and DAOC.  Okay, because UO and DAOC still have some subscribers whereas Sims never really had any, but still.

I don't know why EA doesn't do a Station Pass type of deal.  Being able to play WAR, DAOC, and UO on the same bill wouldn't be a bad deal.  And for the cost of plugging one server back in, they could put Sims on the list for the name alone.  I mean I figure that's gotta be what keeps Matrix Online alive over at SOE.

Is it that they don't want to give away subscriptions to multiple games for a reduced price?  Am I supposed to pay full price for multiple EA games simultaneously?  I don't understand the logic there, since odds are that if I'm going to pay full price for more than one MMO, one of them is going to be WoW.  You may as well offer me a Station Pass and try to keep me under your roof when I burn out on one game and want to try another.

[Trippy]

EA's online strategy has never made sense. Also the TSO crowd all moved over to Second Life -- I doubt many would come back to TSO if it reopened.

[Yegolev]

I don't know why EA doesn't do a Station Pass type of deal.

Because their games are largely embarrassments whose players should be kept isolated from differently-broken players, lest there be created some sort of mini-black-hole of bad taste.

[sinij]

Dur Dur Dur

EA's president must have passed some of that crack to WUA, otherwise why would he still play UO? Unless pretending to be robotic neon-colored pointy-eared Jesus touches some of his deeper darker fetishes.

Really, why would anyone play the same whack-a-mole for more than a decade? Surely not for entertaiment, that long since degenerated into repetitiveness and routine.  Habit? I think its even past that. My best guess is that Trammie ingrained so deeply into WUA that it became part of how he defines himself, if not for lashing at the ghosts of the dread lords he wouldn't know who he is.

[WindupAtheist]

Generic pissant flaming in an attempt to distract from the fact that you opened your fat fucking mouth more than once despite not having a clue what the hell you were talking about?  From you, Sinij?  Say it ain't so!

[Endie]

Dur Dur Dur

EA's president must have passed some of that crack to WUA, otherwise why would he still play UO? Unless pretending to be robotic neon-colored pointy-eared Jesus touches some of his deeper darker fetishes.

Really, why would anyone play the same whack-a-mole for more than a decade? Surely not for entertaiment, that long since degenerated into repetitiveness and routine.  Habit? I think its even past that. My best guess is that Trammie ingrained so deeply into WUA that it became part of how he defines himself, if not for lashing at the ghosts of the dread lords he wouldn't know who he is.

This is a pretty poor comeback.

[Azazel]

Well it has a landmass called Trammel,

So anyway, what the fuck is Tremmel?

In simple, non-UO player terms.

[Endie]

Well it has a landmass called Trammel,

So anyway, what the fuck is Tremmel?

In simple, non-UO player terms.

This has to be a troll.

[Azazel]

Nope, not a troll post. I've been reading about UO players argue and complain about Trammel for several years now on here. I never played UO. My intro to MMOGing was EQ1. When I see people talking about Trammel, I have no fucking idea what they're on about. My best guess is that it's something like that DAOC expansion that fucked DAOC. Though I was long gone from DAOC when that came out as well.

[Simond]

Back in ye olden tymes, UO had no real PvP switch. It had guards in town but other than that it was Lord of the Flies time - which pissed off everyone who didn't want their character to be tankmages or GM poisoned kriss dexmonkeys, or what have you. See, one of the points of UO was that it was supposed to be more of a world (hence the skill-based system) so you could, theoretically, have a character with no combat skill at all.

Naturally, this lead to the minmaxed PKers running around killing helpless miners which in turn lead to the helpless miners complaining to UO (and being told to STFU by said PKers). So...EA came up with an idea. Mirror the world and have one 'side' be the old ruleset with pvp everywhere (Felucca), and the other 'side' being very, very limited pvp (Trammel). The PKers scoffed, because who would want to play UO without the thread of roaming ganksquads behind every bush?

About 95% of the playerbase, as it happened. So, since then you have the people who, basically, aren't good enough to play PvP in any other game where their opponents might just fight back bemoaning how unfair it is that EA stopped them victimising helpless peasants.

Edit: VV Yeah, I just realised I didn't actually name the two sides. 

[Trippy]

To add to what Simond said when EA split UO into the two worlds, the world with the original ruleset (i.e. non-consensual PvP) was called Felucca and the world with only consensual PvP was called Trammel.

[WindupAtheist]

On all the normal shards, Trammel is the landmass with no PK, while Felucca is the oldschool PK land.  (All of the expansion landmasses operate under Trammel rules as well.)  The PVP shard called Mugen has all the landmasses, including Trammel, but the shard's rules mean that you can PK in all of them.

[Azazel]

ok.. so two more questions.

In a "mirrored world" can you travel from Felucca to Trammel?

Why does this mean everyone hates Trammel then? (espcially in light of how popular Blue servers have always been in EQ/WoW/etc?)

[Ingmar]

ok.. so two more questions.

In a "mirrored world" can you travel from Felucca to Trammel?

Why does this mean everyone hates Trammel then? (espcially in light of how popular Blue servers have always been in EQ/WoW/etc?)

Everyone doesn't hate Trammel.

A vocal minority of people who liked griefing other players hate Trammel.

[Endie]

Visit Felucca to witness at first hand its amazing popularity!

[Azazel]

Everyone doesn't hate Trammel.

A vocal minority of people who liked griefing other players hate Trammel.

Then what's the big deal?

or are people taking the piss out of the griefers?

[Simond]

Everyone doesn't hate Trammel.

A vocal minority of people who liked griefing other players hate Trammel.

Then what's the big deal?

The UO-era PKs are still unhappy that people have the choice to avoid being ganked, and that pretty much ever MMOG since then has also allowed that choice.
They're sore losers, basically.

[UnSub]

Why does this mean everyone hates Trammel then? (espcially in light of how popular Blue servers have always been in EQ/WoW/etc?)

I believe Scott Jennings said it best:



The people who liked how PvP was set up in UO loudly and continually complained about the change because it left the open PvP area empty. No-one wants to be an easy target.

It's like the people who complained that SOE screwed over SWG with the NGE. If the number of threads that topic generates actually reflected the number of people who were playing SWG, there never would have been an NGE.

[Slyfeind]

And yeah, you can travel to and from Felucca just by hopping through a moongate, and there's a moongate outside each major city.

[Tannhauser]

There was no need for Trammel if the devs had given us tools of some sort to punish evildoers.

1.  Bounties
2.  Prison
3.  Skill Reduction

Something.

[CharlieMopps]

There was no need for Trammel if the devs had given us tools of some sort to punish evildoers.

1.  Bounties
2.  Prison
3.  Skill Reduction

Something.

The first 2 were in the game when I played.
I regularly collected bounties for the heads of Reds I killed.
I ended up in prison myself. This was a GM action though. Usually because you were griefing someone.

The problem with UO was that PVP combat was so quick, having someone run up and gank you could have you dead in just a few seconds. There was no way somone that was setup to mine ore could fend off some jerk with GM poison/Dex using macros... They would literally port in and BAM! You were GM poisoned AND they were pummeling you. The only thing you could do was have a macro setup to port out and die at your house 5 seconds later. If they would have just worked on the combat mechanic, there wouldn't have been as much of a problem.

[Ratman_tf]

There was no need for Trammel if the devs had given us tools of some sort to punish evildoers.

1.  Bounties
2.  Prison
3.  Skill Reduction

Something.

Oh wow. Are we doing the player justice topic today? 

And yeah, you can travel to and from Felucca just by hopping through a moongate, and there's a moongate outside each major city.

And griefers liked to camp the Felucca side of the moongate and gank any bluebies who were hoping to score some uncontested mining or loot farming.

I believe the term "carebear" was born from the Trammel/Felucca split.

[WindupAtheist]

Why does this mean everyone hates Trammel then? (espcially in light of how popular Blue servers have always been in EQ/WoW/etc?)

Yeah, as soon as they opened Trammel about 90% of the playerbase piled into it and never left.  A small, retarded, but extremely loud fragment of the remaining 10% is still mad about it 8 years later.

I'm not having the "If only they added some magical jail/bounty social engineering solution instead of Trammel!" conversation again.  Punishing the PKs just enough that they only punish the carebears at a rate that isn't quite enough to make them quit seems like a cool idea, right up until some other games come out and everyone quits to go play them because they're tired of being punished one way or another in UO.

Also, I think it's time to break out my chart again.

[Slyfeind]

Another problem with patching in a player justice system; it gives players something else they need to deal with. So not only do you HAVE TO get ganked while you're mining, but you also HAVE TO report them and deal with the justice system. So you have to deal with PKs...twice.

[pxib]

Actually it's difficult to explain how powerful gankers were in pre-Trammel UO. No game made since is anything like it.

The banks were surrounded by thieves who could pickpocket anything (relatively small) that you had in your backpack. Valuable weapons, the key (and therefore deed) to your home (and all it contained). Piles of spell reagents. Cash. Anything you'd spent ages crafting or gathering. Then they could slip it into their own bankbox (they were right next to the bank, after all) and there was no way you could get it back.

Outside town were the murderers. As soon as they killed you they could take ever item you were carrying... weapons, ammunition, potions. If you did not survive the combat, nothing you had in order to help you survive combat belonged to you anymore. To add to that mix, if the murderer could disarm you they could then PICKPOCKET YOUR OWN WEAPON OUT OF YOUR INVENTORY so you were COMPLETELY WEAPONLESS.

Add to this that there were dozens of skills available. Mining, forestry, carpentry, blacksmithing, fishing, alchemy... things for which one might want to be out in the woods gathering materials. Except that instead of getting all those skills, you could just get the skills required to be a murderer and hunt those crafters for sport. Murderer was, as a general rule, the best class to be if you wanted to make money... to get the best crafted items... or just generally the best loot the game had to offer.

[Slyfeind]

Actually it's difficult to explain how powerful gankers were in pre-Trammel UO. No game made since is anything like it.

The banks were surrounded by thieves who could pickpocket anything (relatively small) that you had in your backpack. Valuable weapons, the key (and therefore deed) to your home (and all it contained). Piles of spell reagents. Cash. Anything you'd spent ages crafting or gathering. Then they could slip it into their own bankbox (they were right next to the bank, after all) and there was no way you could get it back.

Outside town were the murderers. As soon as they killed you they could take ever item you were carrying... weapons, ammunition, potions. If you did not survive the combat, nothing you had in order to help you survive combat belonged to you anymore. To add to that mix, if the murderer could disarm you they could then PICKPOCKET YOUR OWN WEAPON OUT OF YOUR INVENTORY so you were COMPLETELY WEAPONLESS.

Add to this that there were dozens of skills available. Mining, forestry, carpentry, blacksmithing, fishing, alchemy... things for which one might want to be out in the woods gathering materials. Except that instead of getting all those skills, you could just get the skills required to be a murderer and hunt those crafters for sport. Murderer was, as a general rule, the best class to be if you wanted to make money... to get the best crafted items... or just generally the best loot the game had to offer.

And the griefers will never be able to do that, ever again. They can never have their glory days back. They can't even come close to it. The absolute worst you can do to someone is steal their kills, or get to a random reagent on the ground before they do. And that's really not that big of a deal. I was a counselor the day Trammel and Felucca split. It was amazing how exhuberant 90% of the players were, yet one in ten counselor calls was a complaint that they could never randomly kill or steal or even block someone from walking through a doorway.

Never again.

And THAT was the best grief ever. ^_^

[Fordel]

I have yet to ever see a 'player justice' system that wasn't just another tool to be griefed with.


Is griefed even a word?

[Trippy]

Why does this mean everyone hates Trammel then? (espcially in light of how popular Blue servers have always been in EQ/WoW/etc?)

I believe Scott Jennings said it best:



The people who liked how PvP was set up in UO loudly and continually complained about the change because it left the open PvP area empty. No-one wants to be an easy target.

It's like the people who complained that SOE screwed over SWG with the NGE. If the number of threads that topic generates actually reflected the number of people who were playing SWG, there never would have been an NGE.

Negative sub numbers only make sense when you include THE CHART as well:

[Endie]

How I loved that loony AW's thread.

[sam, an eggplant]

Never again.

Probably not, but damn was it great being the wolf. Most fun ever in a MMO. Problem is it sucks to be the lamb.

Here's a thought. Bear with me for a minute here. Imagine a full-on hardcore east-meet-west felucca MMO. No holds-barred, except maybe permadeath. You kill someone you get all their shit, rape their corpse, get their gmail password and email their aunt a bookmark to lemonparty and a picture of their cock from adultfriendfinder. We're talking HARDCORE. Fun as hell, as long as you're predator and not prey. So where do you get the prey?

Mainland China!

It's brilliant. They're given free "peasant" class accounts and allowed to mine ore, harvest rice paddies, run erratically in circles, chop down wood, whatever, so they can collect resources to sell offline for real money in a station-exchange kind of setup where the studio takes a large cut of proceedings. They can band together to protect themselves from predators (you and me), they can hire us as guards, whatever. That makes it more of a sport. When you kill a chinese farmer and take all his shit, you're depriving his family of food for the day. His children will go to bed hungry. How's that for griefing?

I would totally play that game.

[Slyfeind]

Probably not, but damn was it great being the wolf. Most fun ever in a MMO. Problem is it sucks to be the lamb.

Of course the punchline is, all those lambs can go back and relive at least some of their elvish RP mining-skinning days....

[FatuousTwat]

Why in the FUCK did this turn into another UO thread?

[WindupAtheist]

Never again.

Probably not, but damn was it great being the wolf. Most fun ever in a MMO. Problem is it sucks to be the lamb.

Here's a thought. Bear with me for a minute here. Imagine a full-on hardcore east-meet-west felucca MMO. No holds-barred, except maybe permadeath. You kill someone you get all their shit, rape their corpse, get their gmail password and email their aunt a bookmark to lemonparty and a picture of their cock from adultfriendfinder. We're talking HARDCORE. Fun as hell, as long as you're predator and not prey. So where do you get the prey?

Mainland China!

It's brilliant. They're given free "peasant" class accounts and allowed to mine ore, harvest rice paddies, run erratically in circles, chop down wood, whatever, so they can collect resources to sell offline for real money in a station-exchange kind of setup where the studio takes a large cut of proceedings. They can band together to protect themselves from predators (you and me), they can hire us as guards, whatever. That makes it more of a sport. When you kill a chinese farmer and take all his shit, you're depriving his family of food for the day. His children will go to bed hungry. How's that for griefing?

I would totally play that game.

I think this is the most brilliant thing I have ever read here.  But then I am pretty high right now.