Civ 4 - Fall from Heaven 2 (version .33) = 8/15 Release (aka BIG ONE)

[Cheddar]

Fall from Heaven 2 0.33 is scheduled for release on Friday, August 15th. Its biggest features are a significant amount of new art, major changes to the Balseraphs and Elohim civilizations, and performance improvements that allow it to run faster on maps with lots of units.

Modders may be interested in the python callouts that are possible when moving next to an improvement or onto a feature or improvement (without having to run the expensive unit onMove python check which has been disabled in 0.33).

Expect to see updates up until release as we continue to check in changes. But the major features should be in place. I expect to spend the time up until release adding events, playtesting and checking in things the team produces between now and then.

Massive changes - evidently they cleared the python issue that was causing lag when HOLYFUCKINGSHITWTF was going on.  Extremely big improvement considering the epic scale of the game.  This is THE update I have been waiting for since they switched to the latest expansion.

A few facts about FFH:

-Individual units can be built up to extreme capability; you will learn to love that swordsman who is level 6!
-You will not be able to play normal Civ after a few rounds on FFH.  It is impossible.
-Every civilization has a unique feel; religion completely alters the feel as well
-The tech tree is completely revamped and how you choose a path determines the feel of your civ as a whole.
-Following up on the previous point: You will not excel at every tech path.  Commerce, mercenary, religious, wizardy, and wildlife taming have various rewards and cross paths in an ingenius manner.

Caveat Emptor (even though its free): Wait until patch "C" or "D" to play - there are always game stopping bugs at the beginning that need ironing out.

[Slyfeind]

God I love FFH. I always die about 10 turns into it, but I love it. Do people just not jump into the quest, and play empire-building? I could never figure it out.

[Typhon]

Quest?  I'm not sure what you mean.  The way I play is a tech race to something that will allow you to crush your enemies (i.e. a special military unit), upon acheiving that, crush your nearby enemies, then concentrate on growing your empire.

What I almost never do is chase the sea-game (i.e. create many naval units), as I could never figure out how to win the game going that route.

[Big Gulp]

Quest?  I'm not sure what you mean.  The way I play is a tech race to something that will allow you to crush your enemies (i.e. a special military unit), upon acheiving that, crush your nearby enemies, then concentrate on growing your empire.

What I almost never do is chase the sea-game (i.e. create many naval units), as I could never figure out how to win the game going that route.

Yeah, what the hell is the quest?  This might actually improve the game for me were I aware of it.  As it is, I usually just ignore the game and play vanilla Civ because I have no idea what the units/tech tree actually means.

[Cheddar]

Are you serious?  The tech tree is genius.  You can work through the top and go with a military based society.  Middle is more economic, bottom is mystical with the very bottom working towards religion and the middle bottom being arcane.

[Big Gulp]

Are you serious?  The tech tree is genius.  You can work through the top and go with a military based society.  Middle is more economic, bottom is mystical with the very bottom working towards religion and the middle bottom being arcane.

My point is that I know what, say, "pikemen" means.  "The Eye of Agamatto" I have no fucking idea about.

I could delve into the stats and figure it out, but I'd much rather just know right off the bat that destroyer>ironclad.

[Lum]

OK, I think you guys talking about "the quest" are talking about the Age of Ice scenario that was packed with the latest expansion. It was based on a full conversion mod which you should run (not walk run) and install right now. The scenario is about 10% of the full mod.

[Cheddar]

Are you serious?  The tech tree is genius.  You can work through the top and go with a military based society.  Middle is more economic, bottom is mystical with the very bottom working towards religion and the middle bottom being arcane.

My point is that I know what, say, "pikemen" means.  "The Eye of Agamatto" I have no fucking idea about.

I could delve into the stats and figure it out, but I'd much rather just know right off the bat that destroyer>ironclad.

This is what you are not grasping.  There is no true A > B > C equation.  Its all in how you USE your troops, and what type of civ you want in the endgame.

You could focus on a core team of Arch Mages who rain BURNING death on the enemy.  You could build a massive army centered around a few heros to over run the enemy.  You could focus on creating a religious atmosphere by which you bring the wrath of your God down upon the enemy.

[Slyfeind]

OK, I think you guys talking about "the quest" are talking about the Age of Ice scenario that was packed with the latest expansion. It was based on a full conversion mod which you should run (not walk run) and install right now. The scenario is about 10% of the full mod.

Holy crap, I thought the Age of Ice thing was it.

[Azazel]

What he said. That's why I bought Beyond the Sword.

[Nerf]

How does civ 4 compare the Civ Revolution on the ps3/360?  We picked it a few weeks ago and have been playing the shit out of, what can I expect different on the PC?

[Big Gulp]

How does civ 4 compare the Civ Revolution on the ps3/360?  We picked it a few weeks ago and have been playing the shit out of, what can I expect different on the PC?

More.  Seriously, while Revolutions is good for a console translation it's still really just Civilization: Training Wheels Edition.

[Typhon]

Are you serious?  The tech tree is genius.  You can work through the top and go with a military based society.  Middle is more economic, bottom is mystical with the very bottom working towards religion and the middle bottom being arcane.

My point is that I know what, say, "pikemen" means.  "The Eye of Agamatto" I have no fucking idea about.

I could delve into the stats and figure it out, but I'd much rather just know right off the bat that destroyer>ironclad.

There are only ever three levels of anything.  Warrior < Swordsman < Crusader.  Nation, Religion and other things can let you create special units.  Often these special units replace the normal unit.  Firebow replaces long bow, for instance.  But I wouldn't say it's a straight Firebow > Longbow, because the Firebow can launch a fireball, which can be used for seige.  It's the little details like that, that make playing the game proficiently something of a dedicated effort.  Maybe I'm on the short strategy buss, but I needed to play many times before I fully understood even a few of the strategies involved.  THAT is the attraction of the game, imo.

[Big Gulp]

Maybe I'm on the short strategy buss, but I needed to play many times before I fully understood even a few of the strategies involved.  THAT is the attraction of the game, imo.

If you're on the short bus, I'm the family freak kept in the basement to avoid embarassment.  Yeah, I had no idea about any of this stuff you guys have been talking about.  I played it once, maybe twice and tried to play it like I would normal Civ; turtle until you've got a ginormous tech advantage and then conquer the world.  Sounds like this mod is meant to be approached differently.

[Merusk]

Maybe I'm on the short strategy buss, but I needed to play many times before I fully understood even a few of the strategies involved.  THAT is the attraction of the game, imo.

If you're on the short bus, I'm the family freak kept in the basement to avoid embarassment.  Yeah, I had no idea about any of this stuff you guys have been talking about.  I played it once, maybe twice and tried to play it like I would normal Civ; turtle until you've got a ginormous tech advantage and then conquer the world.  Sounds like this mod is meant to be approached differently.

Yes, very much so.  It's important to not ignore your military might at all.  In fact, the earlier you can build "mage" and "priest" units the better, because they gain XPs at random.  Once you have an archmage in the game, you see why having them is so important.   Really, the best way to learn FFH is to dick around with the world builder and give yourself a few of each unit type (and pump their XP) so you can see what's going on with them.

Vanilla Civ with the Beyond the Sword x-pack plays similarly. I just got into playing it again a few days ago and the old 'turtling' strategy just doesn't work anymore.  Here I am, happily working my little empire, when 1/2 the world decides "time to die."  Evidently being so culturally and economically superior increases the hate of other cultures against you.  Sure, I've got the tech advantage, but motherfuckers can send squads of 30 swordsmen with trebuchets against my walled-in riflemen.  It's a war of attrition and I'm going to lose every time due to his overwhelming numbers.

[Slyfeind]

I tend to clobber the first civ I encounter, then reign in relative peace thereafter. It's worked pretty good so far, and by "so far" I mean I just wiped out one civ and quit out for a break.

Very cool mod, very well done, feels like a different game.

[Cheddar]

I tend to clobber the first civ I encounter, then reign in relative peace thereafter. It's worked pretty good so far, and by "so far" I mean I just wiped out one civ and quit out for a break.

Very cool mod, very well done, feels like a different game.

This is a great tactic.  Another good one is to rush the World Wonder that gives you 3 Hill Giants with hidden nationality- run them to your nearest neighbor and you can WTF level them with ease along with crippling their civ completely.  After they get uber experience split them up and you can keep your neighbors nice and weak while you expand.

[Typhon]

I tend to clobber the first civ I encounter, then reign in relative peace thereafter. It's worked pretty good so far, and by "so far" I mean I just wiped out one civ and quit out for a break.

Very cool mod, very well done, feels like a different game.

This is a great tactic.  Another good one is to rush the World Wonder that gives you 3 Hill Giants with hidden nationality- run them to your nearest neighbor and you can WTF level them with ease along with crippling their civ completely.  After they get uber experience split them up and you can keep your neighbors nice and weak while you expand.

Curly, Larry and Moe are very cheaty (those are their real names).  It does seem like they are the only decent chance for some civ's to survive the early game (the arcane civ's have a hard time if they are near some aggressive military civ's).

[Tannhauser]

This thread made me play 12 hours of Civ4 yesterday.

Damn you all to hell!

[Sky]

I've been convincing myself to hold off on buying BtS for the last couple weeks. Finally failed yesterday, no place in town has it. I called the gamestop guys a bunch of consolewhoring pigfuckers who wouldn't know a quality platform if it fellated them. Hey, the guy asked me if I found everything I was looking for as I was walking out the door empty-handed. That calls for a bit of vitriol imo. And they were fellating the dreamcast as I was futiley searching the minute pc gaming corner or hopelessness.

At least he didn't try to sell me that console civ.

Online ordering ftw, as always.

[Rishathra]

Vanilla Civ with the Beyond the Sword x-pack plays similarly. I just got into playing it again a few days ago and the old 'turtling' strategy just doesn't work anymore.  Here I am, happily working my little empire, when 1/2 the world decides "time to die."  Evidently being so culturally and economically superior increases the hate of other cultures against you.  Sure, I've got the tech advantage, but motherfuckers can send squads of 30 swordsmen with trebuchets against my walled-in riflemen.  It's a war of attrition and I'm going to lose every time due to his overwhelming numbers.

I've been noticing this too.  I'm confused, though.  I thought the whole point of culture was that it was intended as another way of defending your empire, where other nations were more inclined to leave you alone because they respected/were in awe of your culture.

[Big Gulp]

Online ordering ftw, as always.

Steam has Civ4 and all the expansions available right now.

[Lum]

Vanilla Civ with the Beyond the Sword x-pack plays similarly. I just got into playing it again a few days ago and the old 'turtling' strategy just doesn't work anymore.  Here I am, happily working my little empire, when 1/2 the world decides "time to die."  Evidently being so culturally and economically superior increases the hate of other cultures against you.  Sure, I've got the tech advantage, but motherfuckers can send squads of 30 swordsmen with trebuchets against my walled-in riflemen.  It's a war of attrition and I'm going to lose every time due to his overwhelming numbers.

I've been noticing this too.  I'm confused, though.  I thought the whole point of culture was that it was intended as another way of defending your empire, where other nations were more inclined to leave you alone because they respected/were in awe of your culture.

Culture is offensive, not defensive. It is a non-military way of spreading your borders, and if you bump up against other countries they will not take kindly to your subverting their cities.

There's a reason why Great Bards are called "culture bombs"....

[bhodi]

I haven't tried this yet. I wanted to get bored of the base game, first.

I'm willing to give it a go now.

Should I wait until the 15th when this is released, or should I play whichever the latest is, uh, "Fall from Heaven II 0.30"?

[Rishathra]

Culture is offensive, not defensive. It is a nonmilitary way of spreading your borders, and if you bump up against other countries they will not take kindly to your subverting their cities.

There's a reason why Great Bards are called "culture bombs"....

Maybe I'm still thinking of culture the way it was promoted in Civ 3.  I distinctly recall the devs explaining its intended purpose as an alternative to military might as a way of cowing rival empires.

[Cheddar]

I haven't tried this yet. I wanted to get bored of the base game, first.

I'm willing to give it a go now.

Should I wait until the 15th when this is released, or should I play whichever the latest is, uh, "Fall from Heaven II 0.30"?

Start now.  ALWAYS wait until patch "C" to load the latest mod.  Current mod is pretty slick.

[urlhttp://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=276032]Current mod:  .32l[/url]

For information I have a thread or two already going.  I have been playing FFH since it was first conceptualized and pretty much know everything about it.

[Yegolev]

Anyone put the FFHII mod onto a Steam install of CivIV+BtS?

[Merusk]

Culture is offensive, not defensive. It is a nonmilitary way of spreading your borders, and if you bump up against other countries they will not take kindly to your subverting their cities.

There's a reason why Great Bards are called "culture bombs"....

Maybe I'm still thinking of culture the way it was promoted in Civ 3.  I distinctly recall the devs explaining its intended purpose as an alternative to military might as a way of cowing rival empires.

Yeah, I think this is my problem, too.  I haven't looked in-detail at Civ4 but it seems like you get all of the disadvantages of culture from Civ3 (extra hate from being 'too big', pushing boundaries, annoying the neighbors..) but none of the "Oh hell they're too big to fuck with" advantages.  It seems that the threat other nations see you as is tied purely to your military, while they hate you for military, science AND culture.

Civ4 forces a a LOT more millitary down your throat than the previous incarnations did.  You can't afford to ignore having a standing army or keep it at just 2-3 "Defensive" troops in a city.  You'll get rolled too damn fast.    Then tack-on that every Defender has a counter, and now you're holding 3-4 different TYPES of defensive units, and you need at least 3-4 of each of them.  I find I can't do the old "build every building in every city" bit anymore because of the focus on keeping my army strong, and it's a little annoying.

I blame it on catering the game to the CivFanatics.com people.

[Threash]

Anyone put the FFHII mod onto a Steam install of CivIV+BtS?

I had a civ4 box but i got bts through steam, ffh works fine.

[Yegolev]

Anyone put the FFHII mod onto a Steam install of CivIV+BtS?

I had a civ4 box but i got bts through steam, ffh works fine.

Sweet.  I need another game in the rotation for when I get tired of Dawn of War.  Might as well skip vanilla Civ IV and get right to the nougaty center.

[Hutch]

The other thing you get from Culture in Civ4 is actual, enforced borders. Other nations' units will not cross into your territory unless they're either at war with you, or you've agreed to an Open Borders pact. (And vice versa).

This, no doubt in conjunction with updated AI programming, has cured one of my personal pet peeves from Civ2, in which the computer nations would send settlers zig zagging around your units, usually with the help of their navy, into some godforsaken useless space in the middle of your empire, and set up a city. And you'd have no recourse except to declare war or else set up watchers around the city to intercept the AI's spy units.

In Civ3, same thing, except that the offending Settlers would cross your "culture borders" to get to the empty space.

They'll still crowd you in Civ4, but they can really only pull it off in areas where your cities haven't grown to border size 2+.

[Threash]

Ok im having a problem.  I played this a few months ago with no problems, now when i try to launch a game it crashes.  There was an update to beyond the sword when i launched, im guessing that caused it.  Any ideas what the problem is or how to fix it?

[Merusk]

If BtS updated, you'll have to update FFH to the latest (stable) version as well, I'd imagine.  If you already have and are still having crashes.. um I'd ask over at their forums.

[Cheddar]

Ok im having a problem.  I played this a few months ago with no problems, now when i try to launch a game it crashes.  There was an update to beyond the sword when i launched, im guessing that caused it.  Any ideas what the problem is or how to fix it?

You MUST have the latest BTS patch.  Otherwise it will close if you try and open it.

Man, if I had more spare time I would LOVE to get some multiplayer going with this. 

[Stormwaltz]

Man, if I had more spare time I would LOVE to get some multiplayer going with this. 

Hey, I don't have much spare time. I've never tried Civ multiplayer, and I'm not too good at FFH.

Anyone else want to start a slow turn-around PBEM game. Dibs on Amurites.