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Author Topic: Fury shutting down  (Read 36906 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #35 on: August 07, 2008, 11:00:48 AM

Here are some of the things I fought for as a designer for the game:

  • Get rid of the sanctuaries and put a pure GUI lobby in the game.  Besides the massive art time we could have saved it allows players to get into battles faster, find/talk to people in between games easier, and deal with any vendors/trainers they wanted to without having to spend 20 minutes running around trying to find all the vendors they need.  Not to mention it cuts down on loading times.  When this idea was presented (by me and a bunch of other people on the team) it got rejected due to Adam wanting it to feel more like a virtual world, when in the end all it did was frustrate players and make them waste time not playing the game.  I find it even more funny figuring that Exteel went the GUI lobby route and has lasted a lot longer world wide. 

This. Goddamn was that sanctuary shit annoying, because it gave you the false impression there was supposed to something to do there besides run from one trainer/vendor to another, but there wasn't. It was slow and just unbelievably frustrating. Lag is something you can only control a little, but stupid design decisions like this really should have been rethought.

Another fuckup that many MMOG designers make is they don't understand what depth means. EQ2 for all its positives, had this problem with its crafting system. Just because you have a shitton of things to make does not mean you have a shitton of things you WANT to make. Having a shitton of little ticky components to gather as well is not depth, it's clutter. Fury had the same problem with its skill tree and abilities. Too much shit that meant nothing to someone who wasn't already obsessively familiar with the underlying game engine.

randysavage
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Reply #36 on: August 07, 2008, 04:47:33 PM

If I have to look back on the failings and things to learn from Fury the #1 issue was the people and culture.

Auran was split into 2 factions.

The gamers and the posers, the MMO gamers were a handful of people. The PVP segment of these gamers were even a smaller percentage, which is truly sad when trying to develop a hardcore pvp game.

Over 75% of the overtime leading up to release was done by the people that cared ... the gamers, the posers went home at 5pm. We didn't get paid for overtime but who cares when you are passionate about something you will put in the time to make sure its done right. Sadly 75% of the staff had their heads in the sand and were not mentally prepared for an MMO launch.

Most of the staff also had never shipped a AAA game before including the lead designer. I say AAA because there were a LOT of B decisions going on daily.

The most moronic memory I have was 2 weeks before release all the leads got together with our mighty CEO to talk about issues in the game and features not implemented.

Tony briefly looked at the list and then said "WE HAVE NO BUGS" followed by ripping up the list. RIP indeed ... this set the tone for the rest of the team.

The sheer level of apathy from senior members (lets call them posers because thats what they truly were) at all stages of development was truly mind blowing.

Enjoy the read ;-)

Goreschach
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Reply #37 on: August 07, 2008, 05:08:34 PM

Maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass you'd realize that expecting people to work unpaid overtime and 80+ hour workweeks isn't considered a recipe for success in any field populated by what would typically be considered legitimate businesses*. Although this, I'm sure, is unrelated to the fact that you had morale problems.


*Not considering the few game companies that the industry typically regards as functioning outside this mentality. You know, the ones that somehow always seem to manage to ship AAA titles. Note that this is entirely coincidental.
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Reply #38 on: August 07, 2008, 05:10:11 PM

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Margalis
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Reply #39 on: August 07, 2008, 05:15:55 PM

It's always odd when people ignore the opinions of most of their co-workers, as if the what the co-workers think won't end up being basically the same as what the general public thinks.

Also blaming the failure of the game on people not working overtime is amateur-hour. If people aren't paid for overtime and their feedback is constantly ignored why the hell would they work overtime? Out of the kindness of their hearts?

"Passion" is such a red-herring. Some people have wives and girlfriends and kids and hobbies and other shit they are also passionate about. Not everybody is a socially stunted man-child with nothing better to do than work all the time.

If the only way your game can be good is if everyone works overtime then you've planned to fail. Don't blame employees for scheduling problems. And quite frankly it seems highly unlikely that more man hours would have made Fury significantly better.

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slog
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Reply #40 on: August 07, 2008, 05:30:58 PM

It's always odd when people ignore the opinions of most of their co-workers, as if the what the co-workers think won't end up being basically the same as what the general public thinks.

Also blaming the failure of the game on people not working overtime is amateur-hour. If people aren't paid for overtime and their feedback is constantly ignored why the hell would they work overtime? Out of the kindness of their hearts?

"Passion" is such a red-herring. Some people have wives and girlfriends and kids and hobbies and other shit they are also passionate about. Not everybody is a socially stunted man-child with nothing better to do than work all the time.

If the only way your game can be good is if everyone works overtime then you've planned to fail. Don't blame employees for scheduling problems. And quite frankly it seems highly unlikely that more man hours would have made Fury significantly better.

Talk about totally missing the point.

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Margalis
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Reply #41 on: August 07, 2008, 06:04:48 PM

I think it is you who has missed the point.

See what I did there?

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Ratman_tf
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Reply #42 on: August 07, 2008, 06:17:45 PM

I've worked tons of OT doing software testing. Shit happens and sometimes you gotta stay late.

Unpaid OT? Um, no. If I wanted to work and not get paid, I'd go work for Wal-Mart.  swamp poop



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Margalis
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Reply #43 on: August 07, 2008, 06:35:43 PM

I've worked a ton of unpaid overtime and I'm planning on doing some more. But then again I have no wife, no kids, not many outside responsibilities. I have "the passion" but I don't begrudge people who don't, nor do I make schedules that only work if a guy can't fuck his girlfriend once in two months.

Counting on people working for free is kind of a dumb strategy.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
slog
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Reply #44 on: August 07, 2008, 06:36:34 PM

I think it is you who has missed the point.

See what I did there?

no

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Tale
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Reply #45 on: August 07, 2008, 06:56:20 PM

In stories about the games industry's health in Australia, Auran and Micro Forte always seem to get mentioned as shining examples.

Micro Forte has produced nothing for 10 years, but appears to have an infinite supply of venture capital, government grants and industry awards. They kept saying they were working on Citizen Zero, which eventually became Bigworld MMO middleware, which has so far only been used in ... Dark & Light. Their website treats Citizen Zero as if it was a released game (it was cancelled) and hypes Bigworld as if it's some kind of MMO industry standard, but even the upcoming games list seems to have shrunk.

And now we have Auran's Fury catastrophe.
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Reply #46 on: August 07, 2008, 08:06:02 PM

I remember when Micro Forte planned to release BigWorld titles on the Xbox.

Australia has no strong local development studios and very few international studios (Pandemic, Irrational / 2K Australia). Which means people can't get expertise in developing games in a professional capacity. Which leaves Australia with a supposedly talented amateur scene (not that I see much evidence of it, but I don't go looking much either).

To that extent, the collapse of Auran is a big loss.

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Reply #47 on: August 08, 2008, 04:58:31 AM

It says the site is closing down and I hate for things to be lost forever. Hence, I am saving here the goodbye message:

Quote
Fury Closing Down
We have reached our time limit to find a solution that would help us keep the Fury servers open. Sadly, no solution has been found and so we have no alternative than to shut the servers down in 48 hours.

To all those players who have enjoyed Fury and played countless battles, I am sorry that we could not find a viable business model that would allow you to continue playing. To all those naysayers and doomsdayers, we know that deep down you wanted Fury to succeed. Have fun with your parting wishes

To the Auran team, who put their heart and soul into making Fury, thanks for your efforts. As I said many times before, we need to be much better than the competition to have a chance of succeeding. We gave it everything we had and history now judges that it still wasn’t good enough.

Whilst this marks the end of the Fury chapter, who knows what the future may bring. There were many gems hidden within Fury and many lessons learned. Hopefully one day the full potential can be realized in some other form.

So for now, so long and thanks for all the fish.

P.S. We informed all stores more than a month ago to remove stock from their shelves. If you have purchased a copy of Fury in the past month, we suggest you return it to the store.
P.P.S. This website will also close down in 48 hours.
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Bossman

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Reply #48 on: August 08, 2008, 05:49:43 AM

I think the fundamental problem is that Auran did not go with their strength - trains.

They should have made a MMOG of train empire building with PvP.






</green>
kildorn
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Reply #49 on: August 08, 2008, 06:34:52 AM

I remember when Micro Forte planned to release BigWorld titles on the Xbox.

Australia has no strong local development studios and very few international studios (Pandemic, Irrational / 2K Australia). Which means people can't get expertise in developing games in a professional capacity. Which leaves Australia with a supposedly talented amateur scene (not that I see much evidence of it, but I don't go looking much either).

To that extent, the collapse of Auran is a big loss.

The talented ones I've known have all skipped town to the US via the Pandemic/Irrational channel. It seems to be the advancement path for that area, sadly.

As for unpaid OT. Sure, I'll do it on occasion. But if the business plan isn't possible without me staying late for no money for months? Hey, I'm might even do that out of pride in my work. But I also have a resume out looking for a non shitty employer.

Distressingly, I've seen that "Crunch Time" in the games industry can be summed up by "we overpromised and ohshit", and has become industry accepted planning. So essentially everyone plans that the last 3-6 months of the project will be cramfests of marital problems. Doesn't that kind of imply you should just add another 3 months to the development timeline, or cram a little less a lot earlier? Or budget some fucking overtime?
Tale
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Reply #50 on: August 08, 2008, 04:09:40 PM

I think the fundamental problem is that Auran did not go with their strength - trains.

They should have made a MMOG of train empire building with PvP.

</green>

You must get your train cargo through and guard it against attack. Others are trying to stage great train robberies and Jesse James stick-ups. Or a Thomas the Tank Engine MMO. Grind to 50? I think I can, I think I can.
KindlyOne
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Reply #51 on: August 16, 2008, 08:48:54 PM

If I have to look back on the failings and things to learn from Fury the #1 issue was the people and culture.

Auran was split into 2 factions.

The gamers and the posers, the MMO gamers were a handful of people. The PVP segment of these gamers were even a smaller percentage, which is truly sad when trying to develop a hardcore pvp game.

Over 75% of the overtime leading up to release was done by the people that cared ... the gamers, the posers went home at 5pm. We didn't get paid for overtime but who cares when you are passionate about something you will put in the time to make sure its done right. Sadly 75% of the staff had their heads in the sand and were not mentally prepared for an MMO launch.

Of the people that worked on Fury, not a single one of them came across to me as someone who was not passionate about games. Not a single one. Some played games during lunch; some played in the office after work; some played in the evenings at home. They played games and they played regularly.

They just didn't play Fury.

Why was that? Was it because they weren't passionate about their work? Or maybe they weren't passionate about Fury?

Oh, they were passionate alright. Everyone who worked on Fury cared deeply about Fury until they were alienated from the development process or shut out completely.

Want to know what it was like for many of the art team? Imagine a work environment where you were told to do exactly as told, by someone who did not understand your skills or craft, just because that someone did not believe that your input into gameplay or fun would be relevant. Your feedback and ideas for the game would be automatically discounted because you did not fit into some arbitrarily elite status within the minds of a couple of people.

As you can imagine, people lost hope. Some resigned; others stuck it out. Of those that soldiered on, some wished to see the game finished; others stayed because of pride in their work.

I've heard the song and dance about how you need to be passionate to make great games. But the version I've never heard is the one where I'm told that passion, just like respect, needs to be earned.

I see people have tried to lay the blame for Fury's failure on these people, accusing them of coming to work on a game and treating it like a nine-to-five job. But I also see this: They came to work on a game, but got a nine-to-five job instead.
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Reply #52 on: August 17, 2008, 02:10:21 PM

Popcorn

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Reply #53 on: August 17, 2008, 07:50:59 PM



I see people have tried to lay the blame for Fury's failure on these people, accusing them of coming to work on a game and treating it like a nine-to-five job. But I also see this: They came to work on a game, but got a nine-to-five job instead.

The gaming industry would be in much better shape if people treated it and acted like it was just a regular 9-5 job, cause it FUCKING IS. 

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Chenghiz
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Reply #54 on: August 18, 2008, 06:20:19 AM

I see people have tried to lay the blame for Fury's failure on these people, accusing them of coming to work on a game and treating it like a nine-to-five job. But I also see this: They came to work on a game, but got a nine-to-five job instead.
The gaming industry would be in much better shape if people treated it and acted like it was just a regular 9-5 job, cause it FUCKING IS. 
At the same time it sounds like the problem was primarily lousy management, not people failing to take it seriously. And really if I were to treat a job in game development like I treat my current 9-5 job, it would be nothing more than an 8-hour day of chores. I seriously doubt a good game could come from an office full of that.
Lantyssa
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Reply #55 on: August 18, 2008, 08:47:20 AM

It's unlikely a good game will come from an office where everyone is expected to work sixteen hours a day and they're looked down upon when they only give it eight.  This is especially true when time is budgeted expecting sixteen hours and requires two months of twenty hour crunches to finish on some arbitrary, and badly predicted date.

People perform better when they have rest and outside interests to keep their energy and moral up.

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kildorn
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Reply #56 on: August 18, 2008, 09:04:05 AM

Pretty much. OMG CRUNCH is for things that are unexpected and important. The games industry is at the point where their base planning is for more than a 40 hour workweek (or even 45) on a near constant basis just to hit their targets. Which is just horrible planning. I had a boss that used to plan all his timelines around 60 hour work weeks for everyone involved. We got rid of him after the second horribly late project and terrible employee retention rate.

9-5 is more about worker protection than "oh god I have chores". I don't care what the hour window is or how many breaks you take in between the hours, I just care that you're not half asleep when creating the animations that will drive female characters to deal lower damage  swamp poop
WindupAtheist
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Reply #57 on: August 18, 2008, 09:10:37 AM

Yea, what a crock of shit.  The designers, the top couple guys, should have "passion" of some kind.  All the artwork and coding people just need to be skilled at their fucking jobs.

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Reply #58 on: August 18, 2008, 02:51:26 PM

The two opportunities that I've had to join the "game industry" has left me with the feeling that a good portion of the industry thinks so highly of itself that a lot of studios feel that they can pay less and expect you to work 100 hour workweeks because it's the "game" industry so you should be happy that the cool kids even let you in the door.  I suspect that's why you see a lot of the garbage you see today.

Of course of those two opportunities I've had, one studio has shut down and the other was purchased and it's parent company looks to be on it's last legs, so perhaps I only got to deal with the bottom of the barrel.

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Reply #59 on: August 18, 2008, 03:58:45 PM

No, what you saw was pretty typical.  It's typical because it used to work, back when you could develop a game in a matter of months with a team you could count on your fingers.  As we've ramped up to timescales of multiple years and teams of dozens to hundreds, it stopped working.  A lot of senior people earned their chops in that environment, and don't understand what's so different now (since their contribution has not been diluted and they're insulated from a lot of the worst of the working conditions).

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Reply #60 on: August 18, 2008, 04:07:02 PM

Management in a world all their own, separated completely from the reality of the day to day activities that happen beyond that world?

Sounds like every corporate environment everywhere, honestly.

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Reply #61 on: August 18, 2008, 06:45:06 PM

Management in a world all their own, separated completely from the reality of the day to day activities that happen beyond that world?

Sounds like every corporate environment everywhere, honestly.

No, I'd say the gaming industry is a world of it's own from what I saw.  It's the corporate world only magnified through the lens of a group of people that think:  1) what they are doing has some strange sort of importance (probably because there are message boards of super fans dedicated to kissing their asses/flaming them on a daily basis, internet popularity must mean importance, right?) and 2)  that all the cool kids want to work for them thus they are must be willing to sacrifice if they want the job.

I ended up taking a job at Intel, the height of corporate America where management was in a world of their own divorced from the realities of day to day activities, but they paid much better and gave me way more stock and no one ever tried to pretend they were a primadonna who was FAMOUS on the internet and I should be thankful to be in their very presence.  :)

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Reply #62 on: August 18, 2008, 06:53:19 PM

Shorter: Show business for geeks.

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Margalis
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Reply #63 on: August 18, 2008, 07:38:40 PM

Teaching is another profession where people say "you have to have passion." It's just a cop-out. As a teacher I'd make 1/3 what I make now. I have passion but not that much passion, sorry.

That's always the line when an industry is not competitive in terms of salary or hours. They turn it around as a deficiency in the workforce rather than a deficiency in the business.

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Reply #64 on: August 18, 2008, 07:51:31 PM

Yeah, that's true.  Academia does pay less, but at least the stress is actually lower compared to the corperate world.  Get paid even less, be appreciated less, work more though?  No thanks.

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Margalis
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Reply #65 on: August 18, 2008, 08:23:58 PM

Then again I'm leaving my job for another job that pays less and requires more work.

I guess the power of Christ compels me.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
HaemishM
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Reply #66 on: August 19, 2008, 09:26:38 AM

Shorter: Show business for geeks.

--Dave

Exactly. The rock star mentality of the game industry continues to disgust me. Too many people thinking their shit doesn't stink who are God's gift to coders, not nearly enough people who understand how to plan for shit or deal with people like human beings. Not that the web business or IT is much different in that regard. Too many people in charge of technology production think that because the geeks are smart and can work on computers, they can work LIKE computers for hours on end. Fuck that noise. A 60-hour work week is no more productive than a 40-hour work week, it just lasts longer and takes more out of the people working it. If you HAVE to have overtime on a consistent basis, you are fucking doing it wrong. I've worked at my current job doing web sites for over 9 years and can probably count on fingers and toes the number of times I've had to work overtime. Most of those times were because of poor planning on someone's part, i.e. waiting until the last minute to do shit.

Game companies that think working less than 60-hour work weeks is because of lack of passion are fucking clueless shitheels who need to be goatfucked.

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Reply #67 on: October 07, 2008, 02:22:31 AM

Not quite a necro.

From an article about the Australian games industry:

Quote
Without this support, it can still be a rough environment for games development companies in Australia. One developer that found this out the hard way was Auran, whose studio closure last year sent shockwaves throughout the industry. Counted as one of Australia's biggest development studios at the time, Brisbane-based Auran was just two months into the release of its original IP--massively multiplayer online game Fury--when it announced that it would be going into voluntary administration and laying off all employees. Eight months later, Fury's servers were shut down. Auran CEO Tony Hilliam says the message to learn from Auran's example is loud and clear.

"The biggest lesson I learnt from this is don't bite off more than you can chew, and don't start something you can't finish," Hilliam said. "For the industry as a whole, the lesson is that unless you have the budget, the skills, the marketing dollars and a gap in the market to aim at, then don't try and take on the big boys. Find your niche or stick to work for hire."

This is good advice from a man who knows what can happen when a studio gets too eager about creating original IP. At the time of its release, Fury was one of the most ambitious games to come out of an Australian games studio, and was the first game to feature the coveted 'Australian Made' logo on the box. The game, which received lukewarm review scores globally, reportedly cost close to A$15 million to make. Undoubtedly, there was a lot riding on it for Auran.

"We tried to create a product that would be 'best in class' in an area that no one else had succeeded--the perfect player-versus-player game," Hilliam said. "There was definitely a combination of factors why Fury failed: budget, business model, design flaws, competitive market, and pressures to release before we were ready, and even the psyche of the player base we were targeting. That's quite a list."

Although Auran Developments no longer exists, Hilliam continues to work at Auran Games, developing the long-running Trainz franchise which is still operational. He says the first few months were the toughest to deal with.

"I actually spent the first few months trying hard not to have a total mental breakdown. It was a very hard blow to see years of effort turn to dust, but over time I realised that we had done all we could to make it work."

Fury is a sad example of an original Aussie IP failing.

Hilliam agrees that Auran could have done with more government financial support when making Fury, something that could help local development studios from suffering the same fate as Auran. "Money was a big problem. Ultimately we released the game before it was polished enough to stand up in today's competitive environment. A government HECS scheme [similar to that of university students] would be a good initiative for the industry, where we could pay the income tax back out of our revenues."

The Federal Government only stepped in to support Auran when it was too late, paying the outstanding staff entitlements when Auran Developments shut down. If the same money had been present some six months prior, the studio might have managed to pull through.

"The industry needs money, there's no doubt about that. Whether it comes from government directly or indirectly by encouraging investment, it is definitely needed for the industry to survive."

Triforcer
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Reply #68 on: October 09, 2008, 04:47:54 AM

Shorter: Show business for geeks.

--Dave

Exactly. The rock star mentality of the game industry continues to disgust me. Too many people thinking their shit doesn't stink who are God's gift to coders, not nearly enough people who understand how to plan for shit or deal with people like human beings. Not that the web business or IT is much different in that regard. Too many people in charge of technology production think that because the geeks are smart and can work on computers, they can work LIKE computers for hours on end. Fuck that noise. A 60-hour work week is no more productive than a 40-hour work week, it just lasts longer and takes more out of the people working it. If you HAVE to have overtime on a consistent basis, you are fucking doing it wrong. I've worked at my current job doing web sites for over 9 years and can probably count on fingers and toes the number of times I've had to work overtime. Most of those times were because of poor planning on someone's part, i.e. waiting until the last minute to do shit.

Game companies that think working less than 60-hour work weeks is because of lack of passion are fucking clueless shitheels who need to be goatfucked.

This.  People work NYC law firm hours and have NYC law firm stress, and get paid virtually nothing?  At least my friends that are in that particular corner of no-life legal hell aren't told they are supposed to LIKE it because its the "legal industry."  If I want to suffer a nervous breakdown by the time I'm 35, I want to take away more than Internet notoriety and death threats from 15 year olds. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 04:49:32 AM by Triforcer »

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Stormwaltz
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Reply #69 on: October 09, 2008, 08:32:13 AM

A 60-hour work week is no more productive than a 40-hour work week, it just lasts longer and takes more out of the people working it. If you HAVE to have overtime on a consistent basis, you are fucking doing it wrong.

BioWare manages crunch based on big expensive studies that proved more than two weeks of 60-hour crunch actually leaves your team less productive than a 40-hour week. We alternate one week of crunch and one week off.

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