Random Greyhound Homicide

[Tale]

I linked a video interview above, with one of the witnesses. He said he and some others tried to overpower the guy but "it didn't work" and then he described the guy coming towards them with the knife. Picturing that in the aisle of a bus where there's basically only room for one person at a time, I can understand how their efforts would fail.

Their next action therefore was to try locking the guy in the bus. The witness said the attacker fought over the door and won, so they retreated to outside the bus, behind the bus. When they realised he had not followed them outside, they went back and locked the door. The attacker then tried to start the bus engine and drive off, which failed.

So they're outside the bus, having lost a battle to stop him, but won the battle to lock him inside. Then the guy hacks off the head and brings it down to taunt them.

It's not like they all stood there watching a decapitation.

[squirrel]

Nonsense. They were simply a bunch of weak willed yellow belly pussies! Why had Stray and Hammertime been there they would have easily overpowered, disarmed and subdued him - all while serenading the distraught females present and chastising the unmanly men. Then they'd have a downhome cookout in the aisle and regale in tales of past victories that their forefathers achieved while conquering the west.

 

[rk47]

*insert batman with f13 signal light over the night sky here*

[Miasma]

I linked a video interview above, with one of the witnesses. He said he and some others tried to overpower the guy but "it didn't work" and then he described the guy coming towards them with the knife. Picturing that in the aisle of a bus where there's basically only room for one person at a time, I can understand how their efforts would fail.

See this is one of things I keep trying to imagine our very own action heroes here doing.  What exactly would their tactical response have been in this situation?

• You are on a bus.
• You hear a scream.
• You look behind you but since you're on a bus all you can see are seats.  If it was night time you can't even see those.
• More people start screaming and yelling.
• You still don't know what the fuck is going on.  It's not like your first conclusion is "Oh gee, I guess someone's getting decapitated back there".  Is someone fucking around, did some creep expose himself, is there a schizo on board who just lost it?
• People from the back of the bus are now running forward.  Note that by "people" I don't mean the thirty hearty young men Stray and HAMMER FRENZY seem to be assuming are inhabiting this bus.  I mean the elderly, women and it being a greyhound bus I'm going to assume a few worthless alcoholics.
• By now the driver is probably freaking out and slamming on the brakes.
• Now what do our dumbass "heroes" try and do?  We are on a bus, if you try to stand in the aisle and head to the back you are cutting off the escape route for the aforementioned elderly/women etc.  Maybe by now someone has screamed "murder" and we know some bad shit is going on back there.  If you don't let those people down the aisle we could be dealing with multiple victims.
• Guess what, this is happening live.  You haven't seen the news report yet.  You don't know this guy's age, weight and nationality for fuck's sake.
• Let's assume all of the people who don't stand a chance against the knife wielding maniac are now off the bus.
• You, again, are stuck with a 16 inch wide aisle.  This means you get to bare knuckle box Mr. Stabby one at a time like a God damn Bruce Lee movie.  You had to wait for everyone to get out of your way so the victim is by now long dead.  You know this because he let out the initial scream and has long since gone quiet.
• Are you actually going to attack the crazy person (crazy beats weight and height nine times out of ten) in order to protect a fucking corpse?  Are you psychic and think to yourself "well, this guy is clearly going to start chewing some flesh unless I stop him right now"?
• The victim is gone.  Gone.  The only reasonable thing to do at this point is ensure he doesn't kill anyone else.  That's best done by getting off the fucking bus so the driver can shut the God damn door.  I am so sorry that the responsible thing to do interferes with your hero fantasies.

Those guys who got back on the bus with the crowbar were the most dangerous people in this.  If Mr. Stabby got through them HE NOW HAS A FUCKING CROWBAR when the only thing stopping him from killing again is a flimsy bus door.  You gave him a crowbar and allowed him to escape and possibly kill more people to slate your bravado.  Congratulations.

If Stray or HAMMER FRENZY were ever in a bank robbery and actually tried to pull something they are the ones who would turn a harrowing but survivable experience into a fucking bloodbath as the robbers freak out at being attacked and start shooting.  All because they just had to stroke their fragile little man egos.

[rk47]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibGyGG3X4PI
yup.

[Kitsune]

If by 'Rambo knife' they mean something serious like a bowie or anything with a 6+ inch blade, that backseat guy was not being saved, period.  In the space of thinking, "Holy fuck!", standing up, looking back, seeing what was going on, and springing into heroic action, batshitzania could have easily gotten in a dozen stabs and reduced the poor guy's intestines and liver to ribbons, and that's assuming he was just stabbing around the gut and didn't get the knife anywhere immediately fatal.  The bus could have been parked right outside an emergency room and the guy would still have been dead at that point.  And all it would've taken would be one slash to the throat to render this guy's survival a moot point, and for all anyone knows that could've happened right at the beginning of the attack.

Once that's done, ponder a bus.  A narrow, one-person walkway, one door in front, maybe a second midway down, but no way to get around the guy if he's in the back.  He has six inches of steel in his hand.  You can't gang up on him, you can't surround him.  There is no way in hell that I would come in after him in that situation.  Give me a baseball bat, something heavy and throwable, or pepper spray, and we'd talk, but without some way to overcome his reach advantage, you're inviting him to split your belly or stick a knife in your neck for no real gain.  What does the Internet hero charge accomplish?  The victim's dead.  Keeping the crazy man trapped in the bus until the SWAT team arrives is quite sufficient for dealing with the problem.  If some baby was left on the front seat and crazy guy was heading for it, that would be another matter.

[stray]

I linked a video interview above, with one of the witnesses. He said he and some others tried to overpower the guy but "it didn't work" and then he described the guy coming towards them with the knife. Picturing that in the aisle of a bus where there's basically only room for one person at a time, I can understand how their efforts would fail.

Their next action therefore was to try locking the guy in the bus. The witness said the attacker fought over the door and won, so they retreated to outside the bus, behind the bus. When they realised he had not followed them outside, they went back and locked the door. The attacker then tried to start the bus engine and drive off, which failed.

So they're outside the bus, having lost a battle to stop him, but won the battle to lock him inside. Then the guy hacks off the head and brings it down to taunt them.

It's not like they all stood there watching a decapitation.

I can see that being difficult in those aisles, believe me... I guess I can give them some credit, but the fact that a guy of his stature kept overpowering them makes me think that they really were a bunch of geezers and kids. And it's rather unfortunate then.

All because they just had to stroke their fragile little man egos.

You're running under the assumption that I put the idea of physical violence on some pedestal -- like it's some sort of "special" thing to experience or talk about -- and therefore I must have an ego to dare think I have experience with such a thing. "The audacity!"

I mean hell, if fighting people is such a big deal to you, then I should have went for broke and called myself a fucking astronaut. This, otoh, is so not worth the bullshit.

[squirrel]

You're running under the assumption that I put the idea of physical violence on some pedestal -- like it's some sort of "special" thing to experience or talk about -- and therefore I must have an ego to dare think I have experience with such a thing. "The audacity!"

I mean hell, if fighting people is such a big deal to you, then I should have went for broke and called myself a fucking astronaut. This, otoh, is so not worth the bullshit.

No - we were running under the assumption that you didn't think about the tactical situation (Kitsune/Miasma have it pretty much nailed) at all and started blowing bravado calling anyone who disagreed a pussy. Actually, that's no assumption, that's what you did. So, yeah. Bullshit is about right.

[Paelos]

It was comical, though. You have to give them that. I enjoy a good hindsight scenario joke.

[Oban]

...but if Canada allowed concealed carry licenses for handguns this would never have happened...

[Nerf]

Meh, even I, who is probably the biggest supporter of people carrying concealed handguns doesn't think it'd have prevented it.  For all the reasons above on why trying to fight the guy wouldn't work, chances are someone having a gun wouldn't really help much either.  Hell, even if the kid getting stabbed had a gun, chances are it wouldn't have done him much good.  If you're already getting stabbed, you're pretty much fucked.

With the exception that crazy guy who stabbed someone 50 times, decaptitated him and ate parts of his body would be dead now, instead of spending the rest of his life in relative comfort at the taxpayers expense.

[Oban]

Canadian jails are super-comfy, most even serve lobster while inmates watch cable tv on their private 50" lcd sets.

[lamaros]

I can see that being difficult in those aisles, believe me... I guess I can give them some credit, but the fact that a guy of his stature kept overpowering them makes me think that they really were a bunch of geezers and kids. And it's rather unfortunate then.

 

[Big Gulp]

A surprisingly large number said they would give them their wallets even if it was just a knife. The common explanation being that even with just a knife the attacker could get in a lucky slash/stab and it would be all over for the vicitim.

I'm far from a martial artist, but if someone was robbing me and had a knife I'd probably be willing to give it a go.  A gun?  You betcha, take my shit.

[Oban]

I'm far from a martial artist, but if someone was robbing me and had a knife I'd probably be willing to give it a go.  A gun?  You betcha, take my shit.

Ok, but what if he had a banana?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByZqx30OvVs

[Ironwood]

Heh.

This thread is funny.

I have two fucking Nerds  taking on Hannibal Lecter.

Fuck me gently.

[schild]

I have two fucking Nerds  taking on Hannibal Lecter.

More like Henry Chan, the snapped Chinese Migrant, on the back of the bus with a switchblade.

Edit: Clue could really use some updating.

[Ironwood]

I'd play that !

[Signe]

I almost missed that!  How long has Oban been in prison? 

[HAMMER FRENZY]

If in fact there was no one in the 30 people there physically capable of doing something, then I can concede that.I don't expect women and the elderly to try and stop this guy.  But I find it kinda odd that this little dude over powered them. If that is the case, then I am full of crap. But I do think I would have tried something, and I never mentioned straight up fisticuffs or balsy ego stroking BS. I am pretty certain I would have at least tried to do something rather then nothing.

I think that a lot of people have this idea that I would have tried to Rambo this situation and that is not the case at all. No I would not be stupid enough to block an aisle, and yes I have been on may buses where physical shit has gone down. I am more concerned with the well-being of the rest of the passengers rather than the one dead guy in the back, but once I was off the bus, I would be hard pressed to sit out there and do nothing. Just being honest. I have a hard time standing around while people hurt other people. Doesn't mean I would walk in there and meet him head on unarmed. It means, we come up with some sort of plan that doesn't result in us standing outside while buddy boy carves up junior and we watch and gasp. To be honest, the last place the chinese guy would have wanted to be was outside the bus, cause if in fact there was 3 decently fit guys outside with crowbars, it would have been bloody and crappy for buddy boy.

I think that maybe the people did what they could, given the circumstances, and if in fact they could do nothing, and killer guy was just too strong and smart for them to handle, then at least he only killed one person and got caught.

 I really do believe that trying to talk about hypothetical situations will get us nowhere simply because some may think they are more capable then they are, or others may think that no one is capable at all,  but I do think I would have at least tried something.

On another note, I wonder if the driver would have had some of that pepper spray they use on the bounty hunter shows if it would have ended differently. I have seen many a riot in my home town ended really quick with that crap. And it shoots really far too, like silly string...of death.

[Ironwood]

Pepper spray in an enclosed bus.

I think the chap would probably have preferred mustard with his victim.

[Riggswolfe]

First off, it was the victim who was 5'4" and 130 pounds and not the attacker. We don't know what size he was.

Secondly, this dude clearly had either a major, major psychotic break or was demon posessed. If nothing else, this guy gives me an idea where those kinds of stories come from.

Third, a passenger report says they heard a scream and when they turned to look the victim was being stabbed repeatedly in the chest with a "survival knife". He was probably already dead or dying by that time. This is in the first moments after they heard the scream.

Fourth, going back in to stop him from mutilating the corpse does nothing but risk your life and maybe the lives of others. The corpse at that point is just meat, something that the killer took literally apparently.

Fifth, this isn't a mugger or something. This is a guy who brutally murdered someone else for no reason. Going back in makes you as insane as he is. A person who is that far gone is likely to do nearly anything.

Sixth, until you're in that position, you have no idea what you'd really do. Stop posturing please.

[Big Gulp]

First off, it was the victim who was 5'4" and 130 pounds and not the attacker. We don't know what size he was.

We know he was a Chinaman (in the parlance of our times), so he couldn't have been some hulking monster.  Could be wiry, though.  Best bet would be to grab the buses fire extinguisher and start-a-whompin'.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Apparently Li was 6'. So he was pretty big for an asian. And again, chill with the BS. It is not posturing. I am not trying at all to be a tough guy, it just sucks that the situation apparently made it impossible for people to help. It is really unfortunate. I would like to think that, had it been in the middle of the street, people would have helped.

[Oban]

If I was on that bus I am proud to say that I would get the fuck off post haste.  Unless there were women and/or children on board the bus within my monkey-sphere, I would be climbing over the other passengers to be the first off.

Note to self: ask personal trainer to include a new exercise in my routine that simulates speed crawling over airplane seats.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Ha, I would have gotten off as well, but like I said, once off, plan time. And I don't known when the last time you were on  GH bus was, but you can move if you have too. The seats are below chest level.

[squirrel]

I would like to think that, had it been in the middle of the street, people would have helped.

That's the whole fucking point thought dude - it wasn't in the middle of the street, or during a convenience store robbery, or in a nightclub. It was on a fucking bus in the middle of the night after he'd been sitting there for hours placidly like everyone else. There was no saving that poor guy - it's just good noone else got hurt.

[MahrinSkel]

I'm far from a martial artist, but if someone was robbing me and had a knife I'd probably be willing to give it a go.  A gun?  You betcha, take my shit.

You'd be wrong.  Given a choice between shot and stabbed, I'll take the bullet.  A knife of any size is far more likely to kill with a single wound than a pistol round.  And given the choice between either and my wallet, I'll hand it over.  I know at least half a dozen "reliable" ways to disarm someone, and none of them are reliable enough to trust my life to if I don't have to.

First off, it was the victim who was 5'4" and 130 pounds and not the attacker. We don't know what size he was.

We know he was a Chinaman (in the parlance of our times), so he couldn't have been some hulking monster.  Could be wiry, though.  Best bet would be to grab the buses fire extinguisher and start-a-whompin'.

Tell that to Yao Ming or Chow Yun Fat.  Southern and lowland chinese tend to be short (especially if they grew up as peasants), but there are a lot of ethnicities we label "chinese" that are as different as Italians and Swedes, and a good diet as a child can make a difference of a foot or more to adult height.

Life is not an action movie.  The overwhelming majority of people simply do not confront the possibility of violence on any regular basis, and vastly over-estimate the rationality they'd be able to muster if they were *suddenly* faced with the prospect of having to fight or die.  Real violence often doesn't involve 5-10 minutes of yelling at each other, psyching yourselves up and building an adrenaline charge for a little slap-boxing and amateur wrestling.  And you don't fuck with the crazy if you have any sense.  Really crazy people are much harder to stop than someone who is merely pissed off, because they don't react to pain and fear the way most people do.

Okay, set aside the sudden and unexpected nature of the attack.  When this guy found out he was trapped, did he start trying to negotiate his way out, or look for a way to break a window or open an emergency exit (every bus has a couple, and they're designed so they *can't* be blocked from outside)?  No, he went back to the dead guy and cut his head off.  Then starting sawing bits off and eating them.  And you think you'd go all "Passenger 57" on his ass?  Fuck that noise, I'd be getting me and mine away from the psychotic with a knife, and only if that failed would I be trying anything else.

--Dave

[Rishathra]

Those guys who got back on the bus with the crowbar were the most dangerous people in this.  If Mr. Stabby got through them HE NOW HAS A FUCKING CROWBAR when the only thing stopping him from killing again is a flimsy bus door.  You gave him a crowbar and allowed him to escape and possibly kill more people to slate your bravado.  Congratulations.

Or, if it happens in Nerf's World...

[Abagadro]

Leave Roadhouse out of the discussion dear
or I'll tear your throat out and kick you in the ear

Have a Patrick Swayze Christmas!

[stray]

There was ear kicking in Roadhouse?

Man, maybe I really should re-watch it now.

[edit] Oh, and I still say some of y'all are pussies. My experiment is open to prove it.  I could dangle $100 in front of you, a free hit, and a night of drinks, and you'd still hestitate. You'd either be cunts and not show up, or try to talk your way out of it. The only people who would smack me are the people who smack people.

[Paelos]

Start a Fight Club, Stray. Just run down 6th Street yelling, "I WANT YOU TO HIT ME AS HARD AS YOU CAN!"

[schild]

[edit] Oh, and I still say some of y'all are pussies. My experiment is open to prove it.  smiley I could dangle $100 in front of you, a free hit, and a night of drinks, and you'd still hestitate. You'd either be cunts and not show up, or try to talk your way out of it. The only people who would smack me are the people who smack people.

Or people who want/need $100 and a good story to tell.

[stray]

[edit] Oh, and I still say some of y'all are pussies. My experiment is open to prove it.  smiley I could dangle $100 in front of you, a free hit, and a night of drinks, and you'd still hestitate. You'd either be cunts and not show up, or try to talk your way out of it. The only people who would smack me are the people who smack people.

Or people who want/need $100 and a good story to tell.

That would be your jobless ass then?   

[schild]

Yes. You should come to Austin and buy me lunch. And then dinner.

Edit: And some groceries, Costco.