Looks like the nanonerf is coming

[apocrypha]

New dev blog about heavily nerfing speed, with discussion here.

This has the potential to be a disaster IMO.

1) It's very heavy-handed. I know this is a CCP trait, but why don't the try small changes for once, instead of massive nerfs?
2) It's too late. A lot of people have spent enormous amounts of ISK to get their speeds and are going to be very pissed off.
3) Because of 1) it has the possibility to fuck up lots of other things at the same time.
4) It's also not necessary since even "ludicrous speeds" are counterable if you have good tactics and good organisation.
5) It's yet another example of CCP caving in to the loudest whiners. What'll be the next whine target?

And no, I don't fly "ludicrous" nano setups, in fact I hardly fly any nano ships at all, my pvp character is actually a logistics specialist :p

[Predator Irl]

Makes no odds to me anyway, I binned the idea of nanofaggotry in favor of sitting at a gate taking all they can give, holding em and beating the living crap out of em... old skool style 

[Endie]

Speaking as someone who flies (almost) universally un-nanoable Caldari ships and who snipes and does ECM, my tears will be hard to detect.

Edit: I just realised the Eve-O tears on this one will make the carrier nerf seem like a minor tiff.  I cannot wait.

[apocrypha]

the Eve-O tears on this one will make the carrier nerf seem like a minor tiff.

Oh christ this. And that was enough to stop the carrier nerf completely... so chances are high the same will happen here :p

[Pax]

Good thing I haven't polycarb'ed my Curse yet. ^^

[Endie]

the Eve-O tears on this one will make the carrier nerf seem like a minor tiff.

Oh christ this. And that was enough to stop the carrier nerf completely... so chances are high the same will happen here :p

Actually, it only stopped (postponed?) the last part of the carrier nerf.  Carriers still got nerfed pretty well in a few ways (just before I got mine vOv.

Anyway, i see that they intend to speed up the slower EAFs, increase the base MWD speed of assault frigates by about 40%, increase the base MWD speeds of frigates by 750 at the slowest end and 250 at the highest and other great stuff for younger pilots.  You'll still be able to run nanogangs, but with cheaper ships that cannot bring more firepower as well as speed than your enemy can muster at reasonable notice.

Interdictors' slowest mwd speeds are also increasing.  Judging by the way the bottom end of the spread is closing up I am guessing that Caldari are going to be brought up a bit.  Also sweet for me.  Fuck all of yall.

From looking at their chart, though, I don't think they realise just how fast some recons like rapiers can go at the moment.

Edit: Hells yeah the web speed modifier will be cut down to about 50%.  All the better for Bat frigate gangs, which can bring plenty but suffer less from each.  And scramblers will cut off your MWD too, which I always thought made logical sense.

[Endie]

Also 14 Pandemic Legion whine-posts in the first two pages 

[Thrawn]

i see that they intend to speed up the slower EAFs, increase the base MWD speed of assault frigates by about 40%,

Interdictors' slowest mwd speeds are also increasing.  Judging by the way the bottom end of the spread is closing up I am guessing that Caldari are going to be brought up a bit.

 

[apocrypha]

From looking at their chart, though, I don't think they realise just how fast some recons like rapiers can go at the moment.

Lol yeah I noticed that! Their chart only seems to go up to about 4.5k/sec, which is pretty small potatoes nano-wise.

[Endie]

Holy crap, Kin Rha just got his rapier and they go and nerf webbers.

On the upside, I can fly an arazu with a couple more weeks' training, which with the new, overheated, MWD-killing scrams is going to be lovely, and will work about twice as well as a web at slowing down the same ship, I think?

[ajax34i]

I don't think anyone will use a nano-setup anymore if it's impossible to outrun missiles designed for your ship class.  That seemed to be the only reason why anyone would be so nuts as to pay 4 billion on implants and gear to outfit a cruiser-level ship.  It's the same reasoning as why no one puts BPO's in a research POS and instead keeps the originals in an invulnerable NPC station.

I think CCP is going for "you pay more, you get more damage reduction due to your speed", but I don't think anyone's gonna go for the exorbitant prices that the top end stuff costs anymore.  Even when prices crash and it all costs a lot less, doubt anyone will go for it.

Lol yeah I noticed that! Their chart only seems to go up to about 4.5k/sec, which is pretty small potatoes nano-wise.

I think their charts (both of them) only show speeds based on having a T2 MWD fitted, so, no officer gear, no snakes, and no rigs.  As such, it's hard to really see what the top speed has been reduced to.  We'll know soon enough, I suppose.

EDIT:  I kinda agree with the replies in that whine thread on EVE-O that say it'll be a pain to try to get in range for blasters with these changes.  Maybe they need to make the MWD shut down at the end of its cycle, rather than as soon as it gets hit by a warp field, so blaster ships can hit it once and get in range.  It would also make it easier to get out of bubbles, though I don't think 1 MWD cycle will be enough to get a big ship out of a bubble.

Personally, I'd love to see webifiers and warp disruptors have the same ranges as dampeners and ECM.  30km+ (with the specialized ships being able to push these modules to 100km ranges).  If they're gonna nerf webbers to 50% effectiveness, might as well give them range.  But, I don't know what effects this would have on the balance of combat, so shrug, not gonna suggest it anywhere official.

[bhodi]

Webbers to 50-60% should be fine considering the slower speeds and non-nano ships. Double-webber rapiers should still be useful.

This nerf is going to make the pulse apoc (and it's cousins the harbinger and zealot) go from godly to OH MY GOD RAPE MACHINE. This goes for *anything* with large optimals and good tracking. With the age of nano gone, anything that warps in from 70km-100km is going to be pretty much invincible.

[Phildo]

I don't like this.  I was just getting used to fighting (and beating) nanogangs.  And nerfing webs seems like a really, really bad idea unless they do increase the range, which still seems like a really bad idea.

[Endie]

Webbers to 50-60% should be fine considering the slower speeds and non-nano ships. Double-webber rapiers should still be useful.

This nerf is going to make the pulse apoc (and it's cousins the harbinger and zealot) go from godly to OH MY GOD RAPE MACHINE. This goes for *anything* with large optimals and good tracking. With the age of nano gone, anything that warps in from 70km-100km is going to be pretty much invincible.

Yep, one of my first thoughts was: "Woot!  My eagle!"  Followed by "Woot!  My falcon!" and "Woot!  My ares!" due to the scram boost and its bonuses.  Even my never-used-in-anger Cerberuses (all three of them in various places) get boosted, partly because they're not so outclassed on pace, and partly because I can hit from a long way and don't care about tracking.

Heavily minnie alliances are giong to be crying into their online-escort-agency-pimps' shoulders however: UK, Stim and Star Fraction.

[Predator Irl]

... And scramblers will cut off your MWD too, which I always thought made logical sense.

This is sweet, sweet music to my ears.  It totally makes sense and I can see pvp'ing becoming far more balanced and down to pilot skill rather than who can get away when things don't go to plan.

Another thing I hope to see from this is a heavy weakening of the nanofag alliances like AAA. When this kicks in it may be an ideal time for us to go south with all guns blazing.

[Amarr HM]

Oh and the Arazu as pointed out elsewhere is about to become a better tackler than the rapier which is cool cause I was considering training for em, now I'm definite, woot drone interfacing V in six days.

Essentially with a T2 scrambler an Arazu can web AND scram at 24 km, faction/overheat/links anything up to 45 km.

[Amarr HM]

New dev blog about heavily nerfing speed, with discussion here.

This has the potential to be a disaster IMO.

1) It's very heavy-handed. I know this is a CCP trait, but why don't the try small changes for once, instead of massive nerfs?
2) It's too late. A lot of people have spent enormous amounts of ISK to get their speeds and are going to be very pissed off.
3) Because of 1) it has the possibility to fuck up lots of other things at the same time.
4) It's also not necessary since even "ludicrous speeds" are counterable if you have good tactics and good organisation.
Yup as I said elswhere
5) It's yet another example of CCP caving in to the loudest whiners. What'll be the next whine target?

And no, I don't fly "ludicrous" nano setups, in fact I hardly fly any nano ships at all, my pvp character is actually a logistics specialist :p

1. I heartily agree maybe they should design a new game called "not EVE"
2. Ho hum
3. Yes more patchieness
4. Yes I posted this elsewhere : with the right tactics and derring do vagas and other fast ships are easy to catch by wily inty pilots.
5. See mostly dicks post on the Eve-o forums its a fukin nightmare for intelligent people to make remarks and then get trolled by complete fuked in the head little geek-snot neckbearders. Essentially they should look elsewhere for opinions on their game cause its their forums that are doing the damage in this respect.

[Jayce]

This is also a boost to lowsec pirate gangs, since a target can't typically burn back to the gate jump back through when ganked.  Unless people start equipping T2 afterburners instead of MWD, but then they may not be able to survive the trip.

Overall, I don't like it, because it does sound to me like the whiners are winning. It's typical of PvP games really - whatever is most fun, and often interesting to counter, kills the most people by sheer number of people using it, so the perception is that they're unbalanced and whiners raise the hue and cry so loud that the devs end up caving.

[ajax34i]

Heh, the EVE-O comments thread linked in the original post here exploded to 37 pages (30,000 views, 1000 replies) in the 7 hours since it's been posted.

[Faust]

Holy crap, Kin Rha just got his rapier and they go and nerf webbers.

Strange, I was just thinking the same thing.  Finished Recon 4 about 30 minutes ago.  The Dev's must have noticed this and figured "If THIS guy finally figured it out..."   (Its not uncommon for me to arrive late to the party in online games.)

However, on the up side, I don't have snakes, thermodynamics (yet), faction MWD's or the other ultra-speed capabilities, so maybe the nerf will give me a better chance to catch those that do.  I'm also not too terribly far from training a sniper Huginn when the situation calls for it, and of course, my Stilletto's and Assault Frigs might actually become more useful.

Speaking of Kin Rha... 2 more days of intense study and (assuming I pass the test) I'll start having more free time to use the thing.

[Simond]

This devblog was worth it for the drama generated alone.

[Comstar]

Anything that slows down speeds in EvE sounds good to me ('Corse I stopped playing right at the point I had the skills to fly all the Minmater Speed ships).

[Goumindong]

This is interesting. Not entirely what I would have done, but close. We will see when the final numbers come out.

[dwindlehop]

I'm on the fence with the exact figures used for OD, poly, nano, but the all the nerfs (and boosts) are inline with what I want. The web changes and scrambler changes are too much, I think. The rapid deployment change makes me sadface.

[Sparky]

Woot blobs online

edited for some content:  I'm sure Pathetic Legion and all other nanofags will adapt - but even so it sucks to yet again see CCP cave into whiners who refuse to crosstrain and want PVP made simpler and less interesting.

[Simond]

I'm sorry, but when you can makes ships so fast it starts breaking the game's physics engine, it's probably time for a nerf or three. 

[Sparky]

Sure but it's only a few setups that do that and tweaking snakes would fix all of them without nerfing speed setups across the board.  I'll wait and see but it's looking like a huge nerf is inc.

[mutantmagnet]

The one thing I have to say to all this is LOL to all the fools who argued with Gouminondong 2 months back about cruisers vs frigates.

No matter how eloquent his words, or how detailed his pictures and tables were they spent 10 pages in a thread saying cruisers didn't overlap with frigates when it comes to speed.

I'm glad CCP has vindicated our sentiments and are now going to change the base speed of ships.

Going from:

Frigates   1750-2950ms
Cruisers   1350-1750ms
Stealthbombers   800-1200ms
HACs      1450-1800ms
EAS      2550-2900ms
FRecon      1300-1650ms


To

Frigates   2450-3250ms
Cruisers   1350-1750ms
Stealthbombers   1550-1800ms
HACs      1450-1800ms
EAS      2700-2900ms
FRecon      1300-1650ms

Is awesome but as much as I wanted this change CCP needs to look at turrets. I'm not an expert on how tracking works but with the new speeds and the modifications to webs frigate ships of all sizes should be invulnerable to BS. Making them immune to BS turrets ensures the viability of cruisers but I have my doubts on medium turrets being up to the task and it is hypocritical to make changes partially because of the nanoimmunity to missles and most attack drones when those changes create new immunities.



They also need to think about bubbles. WCS should decrease the impact of scramblers to a small degree.

I'm actually dissappointed about the change to polycarbs. I thought they were overpowered in relation to the other rigs that only affected velocity or agility but by fixing polys they also had to change nanofibers which I always thought weren't that hot in general.

[Amarr HM]

I'm glad CCP has vindicated our sentiments and are now going to change the base speed of ships.

Don't count your chickens

Attention! The modifications discussed below are all subject to change, based on player input and testing experience.

[Slayerik]

I'm on the fence, as a guy that used to run battleship/ command ship gangs and nano fag gangs. Now you have eliminated one playstyle. I say nerfing polycarbs and maybe knocking off 100% of the thruster bonus from all MWDs would have toned things down some. Ah well.

I'm sure glad I spent the last 3 months cross training minmatar ships.

And the now useless Acceleration Control V



But anyway, who is going to fly Minny ships now?

[Predator Irl]

The more I think about this, the more Im not sure it is a good thing (even for a caldari pilot). I like the sounds of the warp scram killing the MWD, but nerfing the speed is going to have a massive effect on the game. Each race has its own strengths, except maybe the poor Amarr chappies, but what is going to be the attraction to Mini now?

What would have been more effective would have been to nerf the speed (or other advantage for other races) if you are cross-trained out of your own race, as from what I understand there are more people using the caldari race than any other. In other words, races fly their own ships better than other races.

[Phildo]

The attraction for Amarr pilots was the ability of pulse Apocalypses to wreck nanogangs.  Which won't be necessary now, so everyone should crosstrain to Gallente for the Megathron which is a way cooler ship anyhow.

[kildorn]

The age of the Fleet Domi is upon us! TREMBLE IN FEAR.

Or something.

[Endie]

From this thread:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=833782&page=21#606

I apologize for my lack of posts, as you can imagine I've got plenty to do at the moment. I've read through tons of feedback in various threads and forums as well as doing some testing myself.

What has been fixed:


* "Polycarbon Engine Housing" not working at all - Has been fixed on our dev server.

* LG Snake Omega was rendered useless due to it giving a less bonus than hardwiring implants - Has been fixed on our dev server.


What we're currently taking a look at:


* Missiles doing too much damage to smaller targets (told you, Amarr!)

* Agility (especially on cruisers, blaster boats and minmatar ships)

* Polycarbon Engine Housing / Nanofibers, possibly increase agility bonus (make them feel more like the old ones)

* Inertia Stabilizers, boost them

* Drones, speed / orbit speed and tracking (see if it needs tweaking)


Stuff we want to see more info on:


* Tracking


We've received some very useful feedback in this thread, but a whole lot of unproductive comments as well. Please try to keep your replies civil and worthwhile, unfortunately the thread isn't as heavily moderated as I would have hoped.

PS.

I also want to point out something nobody seems to have mentioned regarding warp scramblers and them possibly being overpowered. Prior to the changes the stasis webifier reduced your speed by 90%, without touching your huge signature radius. So you were slow and had a huge signature radius.

While the warp scrambler + stasis webifier after the changes does indeed reduce your speed more than a -90% webifier, your signature radius is small.

Even with the nerf to missile damage vs small stuff I bet that hawks will be way better.  With that, their speed boost and the slowing of the enemy it is looking likely that I will actuallly do the unthinkable and train assfrigs to 5.

[Thrawn]

Even with the nerf to missile damage vs small stuff I bet that hawks will be way better.  With that, their speed boost and the slowing of the enemy it is looking likely that I will actuallly do the unthinkable and train assfrigs to 5.

I really enjoy flying a Harpy and can't wait to see what this does to it.  Might even make flying a blaster harpy viable.  Orbit at 5km with AB on and do 200+ dps in an AF! 

Actually haven't tried a Hawk yet.