Looks like the nanonerf is coming

[lac]

It's good to see they are looking into tracking as well. And while I'm just about ready to move to t2 minmatar cruisers, I kind of like what they are doing here.

[dwindlehop]

As a t2 Minmatar cruiser pilot, I can honestly say I won't covet the nano-Ishtar any more.

[Slayerik]

Nano ishes were sexy bishes

[LC]

Tried out my nano ishtar on singularity last night. I fought a friend who was in a torp raven. I lost 5 out of 5 fights. It wasn't even a contest. I got raped.

RIP nano ishtar

[Predator Irl]

Tried out my nano ishtar on singularity last night. I fought a friend who was in a torp raven. I lost 5 out of 5 fights. It wasn't even a contest. I got raped.

RIP nano ishtar

Yeah I could have told you that before you started... isn't that right Amarr     LoL

[Endie]

CCP have been saying that missile explosion radius and velocity will be nerfed.  I imagine they'll want everything to do at least a little damage, though vOv.

[Predator Irl]

CCP have been saying that missile explosion radius and velocity will be nerfed.  I imagine they'll want everything to do at least a little damage, though vOv.

Ah FFS, if they nerf missiles they're gonna kill caldari altogether! As it is, missiles do way less damage than blasters and autocannons. Where is that gonna leave us?

[Jayce]

Each race has its own strengths, except maybe the poor Amarr chappies,

but what is going to be the attraction to Mini now?

Ah FFS, if they nerf missiles they're gonna kill caldari altogether!

Hm, I'm seeing a trend here.  Gallente FOTM?

[Endie]

CCP have been saying that missile explosion radius and velocity will be nerfed.  I imagine they'll want everything to do at least a little damage, though vOv.

Ah FFS, if they nerf missiles they're gonna kill caldari altogether! As it is, missiles do way less damage than blasters and autocannons. Where is that gonna leave us?

No it won't: these changes are a massive buff to missile users right now.  A nerf to explosion radius and velocity would just be to stop LC's ishtar getting relentlessly popped by the mission-runner sitting on an undock with a torp raven.

Although I must admit it would be wonderfully ironic seeing ratting-fit raven pilots saying "cry sum moar" and "lrn2play nub" in local to the people who have spent a year saying "our ships aren't broken, adapt or die noobs" to others.

[Phildo]

See, this is an interesting can of worms.  Instead of making one or two small tweaks, they're CHANGING EVERYTHING!  If they nerf explosion radius, msisile velocity, gun tracking, etc., then nanos will be just as effective as before and nothing will change except that now my battleship won't be able to hit regular cruisers either.

[Amarr HM]

Tried out my nano ishtar on singularity last night. I fought a friend who was in a torp raven. I lost 5 out of 5 fights. It wasn't even a contest. I got raped.

RIP nano ishtar

fukfuk fukfuk fukity fukfuk fukit 

[Amarr HM]

CCP have been saying that missile explosion radius and velocity will be nerfed.  I imagine they'll want everything to do at least a little damage, though vOv.

Ah FFS, if they nerf missiles they're gonna kill caldari altogether! As it is, missiles do way less damage than blasters and autocannons. Where is that gonna leave us?

Where you belong? Empire AFK runnin level 3 missions.

[Amarr HM]

Although I must admit it would be wonderfully ironic seeing ratting-fit raven pilots saying "cry sum moar" and "lrn2play nub" in local to the people who have spent a year saying "our ships aren't broken, adapt or die noobs" to others.

If adapt or die means that I have to revert my training to fly a craphouse turtle Battleship everywhere then I'm gonna put up a serious whine. Are they gonna bring up T2 insurance cause I think it will be more worthwhile fly a vexor from now on if my Ishtar doesn't have the survivability I have trained it for.

Yeah I could have told you that before you started... isn't that right Amarr     LoL

Yeh Pred was testing his torp raven on my Ishtar I hadn't notice my cap had run out and my MWD switched off which basically meant my Ishtar got two volleyed. So bad enough that it crumbles with MWD switched off CCP have made it so its pants with MWD switched on aswell doesn't bodewell with me. At least the old way noob pilots could be given a task of tackling an ishtar which is pretty much defenseless against tacklers now its defensless against carebears.

[Jayce]

I never will understand why they make these tweaks.  Maybe nanos are overpowered now, maybe they're not.  People who have the skills do fly other ships now sometimes, so they are clearly not an IWIN button.

Making all these changes, and the changes necessitated by the changes, and the changes' changes' changes will introduce a crazy amount of risk that someone else finds some super powered combo and/or makes something else almost obsolete.

Give me "the devil you know" any day.  Yet, every development house does this - makes sweeping changes to address some minor issue and runs the risk of screwing up their mechanics even worse, but in another direction.

[Amarr HM]

I say they should just introduce the changes to webs and scrams the whole thing is wayyy to much. Are CCP saying that their game is pants and they are losing subscribers?

[lac]

I never will understand why they make these tweaks.  Maybe nanos are overpowered now, maybe they're not.  People who have the skills do fly other ships now sometimes, so they are clearly not an IWIN button.

Making all these changes, and the changes necessitated by the changes, and the changes' changes' changes will introduce a crazy amount of risk that someone else finds some super powered combo and/or makes something else almost obsolete.

Give me "the devil you know" any day.  Yet, every development house does this - makes sweeping changes to address some minor issue and runs the risk of screwing up their mechanics even worse, but in another direction.

You are right in the 'don't change something that isn't broken' department even when nanohacs were obviously stronger than intended and you are right that they are opening pandora's box with all these new changes. But I like a rebalancing like this, it keeps things fresh and forces people to adapt to a new playing field, leading to new tactics and new setups. As long as they don't pull a SWG and rip the heart out of the game, rebalancing like they intend to do keeps things exiting for me.

I might be way off on this but they have talked about introducing new ships after they managed to better define the roles of the existing ones (especially making assfrigg/ewar frigs more useful), so maybe this change is a prelude to the introduction of new ships.

[Phred]

I never will understand why they make these tweaks.  Maybe nanos are overpowered now, maybe they're not.  People who have the skills do fly other ships now sometimes, so they are clearly not an IWIN button.

Making all these changes, and the changes necessitated by the changes, and the changes' changes' changes will introduce a crazy amount of risk that someone else finds some super powered combo and/or makes something else almost obsolete.

Give me "the devil you know" any day.  Yet, every development house does this - makes sweeping changes to address some minor issue and runs the risk of screwing up their mechanics even worse, but in another direction.

I'd say they make these big changes partly for the lead programmer who expressed such disappointment over the CSM proposals not bringing any sweeping changes. It's pretty obvious he likes big challenging projects and finds the mundane task of fixing bugs and polishing code to be beneath him. I used to work with a programmer like that. The only way to actually get product out of him was to assign him a couple of clean-up programmers who finished and fixed what he wrote.

[Jayce]

I'd say they make these big changes partly for the lead programmer who expressed such disappointment over the CSM proposals not bringing any sweeping changes. It's pretty obvious he likes big challenging projects and finds the mundane task of fixing bugs and polishing code to be beneath him. I used to work with a programmer like that. The only way to actually get product out of him was to assign him a couple of clean-up programmers who finished and fixed what he wrote.

Someone like that wouldn't be lead long in my organization.  Massive changes to game mechanics because of ennui?  Professional.

[apocrypha]

1) It's very heavy-handed. I know this is a CCP trait, but why don't the try small changes for once, instead of massive nerfs?

Quotin' myself. Just saying.

CCP *always* overdo everything. EVE is such a finely balanced game and they come along with fucking sledgehammers and fuck everything up. It's very depressing that they never EVER learn and adjust things slowly, carefully, gingerly.

EVE.... an awesome game that has to be regularly defended from it's own devs.

[Phred]

I'd say they make these big changes partly for the lead programmer who expressed such disappointment over the CSM proposals not bringing any sweeping changes. It's pretty obvious he likes big challenging projects and finds the mundane task of fixing bugs and polishing code to be beneath him. I used to work with a programmer like that. The only way to actually get product out of him was to assign him a couple of clean-up programmers who finished and fixed what he wrote.

Someone like that wouldn't be lead long in my organization.  Massive changes to game mechanics because of ennui?  Professional.

The 8 guys in a garage mentality is harder to break than you think.

[Ninja Sportz]

gingerly.

oo god...the gingers....

[Amarr HM]

Just been on SISI using my nano-ishtar I jumped into FFA got pwned by four battleships though I was orbiting at full speed (2km/s). Oh well the fun is over I guess we gotta sit like turtles and taktikalise. Any other good MMOs out there?

[Slayerik]

Thats the problem, there isn't shit else.

[Thrawn]

Thats the problem, there isn't shit else.

What? Don't want to play WoW after WOTLK?

I can see it already, chat will be -

[Player1] Death Knight LFG.
[Player2] Death Knight LFG.
[Player3] Death Knight LFG.
[Player4] Death Knight LFG.
[Player5] Death Knight LFG.
[Player6] Death Knight LFG.
[Player7] Death Knight LFG.
[Player8] Death Knight LFG.
[Player9] Death Knight LFG.
[Player10] LFM, FULL ON DEATH KNIGHTS

[lac]

I heard tabula rasa shoots your sperm into space.

[Thrawn]

I heard tabula rasa shoots your sperm into space.

I played Tabula Rasa in beta and it made me not bother buying it when it was released. 

[lac]

I played Tabula Rasa in beta and it made me not bother buying it when it was released. 

Same here, but I had a good time for a while. At some point they managed to totally screw up balance and it was as if I was the guy in quake with the rocket launcher while everyone was on slow pills. It sure was entertaining for a while, I was running through an mmo in god mode.

I can very much pinpoint where the game died for me. I was having a very good time, after the initial trouble with the movement keys, the introduction into the gameworld was really well done although I didn't get the whole rune thing. The fact the mobs would keep spawning landing  all over the place made for a good atmosphere and I was really enjoying myself until I got the quest to kill ten boars.
My initial tough was 'haha, great parody' but then I had to spawncamp those boars for 45 minutes to complete my quest and the game died on me.

[lac]

Ops, got a bit carried away there.
yea, nano's.
They are almost tougher cruisers now, aren't they.

[dwindlehop]

See, this is an interesting can of worms.  Instead of making one or two small tweaks, they're CHANGING EVERYTHING!  If they nerf explosion radius, msisile velocity, gun tracking, etc., then nanos will be just as effective as before and nothing will change except that now my battleship won't be able to hit regular cruisers either.

The difference will be in the time it takes to move: 15km back to the gate, 20km out of the bubble. These will become significantly longer.

I want to see whether an AB HAC can keep an orbit up on a BS while within web range for damage reduction. Perhaps someone is reporting on that, but I am too lazy to sift through forum posts.

[Amarr HM]

Well Ive been on SISI and I confirm if things are the way it stands HACs are near useless in Nano form. Which is great if that's what you really wanted, it's kinda like batman killing the joker and then wondering why his life suddenly became dull.

[LC]

Ops, got a bit carried away there.
yea, nano's.
They are almost tougher cruisers now, aren't they.

100+mil isk cruisers with slightly better resists.

[Endie]

But I like a rebalancing like this, it keeps things fresh and forces people to adapt to a new playing field, leading to new tactics and new setups. As long as they don't pull a SWG and rip the heart out of the game, rebalancing like they intend to do keeps things exiting for me.

I might be way off on this but they have talked about introducing new ships after they managed to better define the roles of the existing ones (especially making assfrigg/ewar frigs more useful), so maybe this change is a prelude to the introduction of new ships.

Quotin' dis.  I like to read about tactics when I take a break from working for 20 minutes.  I like to theorycraft in my head in order to take my mind off the last 100 metres of vertical ascent when on the hills.  The game had stratified and things had become staid.  I like change, and the fact that some people don't like adapting just adds a certain piquancy to the mix.  It's not as if real life sees warfare become static and immutable: pretty soon your hitherto unbeatable phalanx is going to meet a legion (insert "you see, Eve is a lot like..." here).

I'm with Raph and his Theory of Fun here: finding the pattern and getting good at it is great, but then you need a change at that point or else you eventually get bored, no matter how high your wtrange, game-enabled sense of self-esteem.  Of course, MMOs do sometimes attract the sort of people who rather enjoy repetition, and who will find and grind the path of least resistance.  But the problem is that even they - with the joy of repeatedly and effortlessly pwnzoring Bruce's remote rep gangs (which should have been a valid counter, although they weren't and were therefore dumb because of that) - don't realise the freshness is gone until they unsub.

[apocrypha]

New ships would be great. Lots of them. I've got an enormous stockpile of datacores that I can't be bothered to go and collect while the prices are so low and the only thing I can think of that'll raise their prices is a whole load of new things for people to want to invent :D

[Predator Irl]

Well from a purely Caldari perspective (I KNOW, I KNOW, but hear me out) the problem with nano ships isn't that they go way faster than us, its the fact that if you put for example a cerb vs a vaga, we all know the outcome every time and its nothing to do with skill.

The problem is, the nano's can't be HIT, let alone damaged. They aren't speed "tanked", the are speed "invincible" which is not a fair fight in anyone's books. Yes I think the nerf is a great idea, but from what I've read CCP have overdone it as usual.

IMO they should only nerf the speed (or increase the ability to hit them) to a point only where they have equal resistance to damage as their tanked counterparts. But the problem with CCPs approach is that they listen to all the whiners until they will get to the point where there wont be any variations between any of the races.

[dwindlehop]

I'm waiting for the stuff Nozh was talking about to get fixed before passing any judgment.