WoLK to feature Achievements.

[SurfD]

So, to all those fans of the CoH achievements system, WoW is getting set to release its own take on the idea with WoLK.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/gameplay/achievements.xml

Makes me wonder if there is going to be a sudden surge of people trying to get a complete Naxx run under their belt, as it seems some of the achievements are going to be grandfathered in based on past accomplishments which may not be possible to do once WoLK goes live.

[Lakov_Sanite]

This, makes me salivate and is also interesting because it will I think weed out a lot of alt-aholics as sticking with one char will mean something(relatively)

[Falwell]

I think this is god damn evil. Pure, distilled, bottled evil.

I'll give it to the guys at Blizz. They know how to go for the throat.

[SurfD]

This, makes me salivate and is also interesting because it will I think weed out a lot of alt-aholics as sticking with one char will mean something(relatively)

Im a bit of an alt-a-holic, but mostly because i seem to be stuck between Tier 4 and ZA for pvp progression and hate pvp.  So i spend my time leveling alts to fill in gaps in my crafting self sufficiency areas.

I do REALLY want to go and get my druid run through naxx tho, as that is, i think, the only old world instance i boss i have not killed with her.

[Rasix]

Im a bit of an alt-a-holic, but mostly because i seem to be stuck between Tier 4 and ZA for pvp progression and hate pvp. 

 

 

 

[K9]

Achievements window



List of Achievements

   Wrath of the Lich King       Tuskarrmageddon        Mindlessly slaughter 1,000,000 Tuskarr. Reward: Baby Seal Club

What were you saying about evil?

[caladein]

Needs a "Babies on Spikes" achievement, asap.

[Calantus]

Needs to be account-wide IMO. The amount of people with only one character at this point can probably be counted on one hand.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Needs to be account-wide IMO. The amount of people with only one character at this point can probably be counted on one hand.

That's the point I think, they are trying to avoid alt-aholics and give some prestige back to having a 'main' I myself have four 70's out of sheer boredom as once I got everything I needed there was no reason not to level another, well here's a reason.

Ok sure this can't really be called content, it's nearly pointless time sinks but it's at least something to do and it looks like they aren't half assing it.

[Merusk]

Needs to be account-wide IMO. The amount of people with only one character at this point can probably be counted on one hand.

That's the point I think, they are trying to avoid alt-aholics and give some prestige back to having a 'main' I myself have four 70's out of sheer boredom as once I got everything I needed there was no reason not to level another, well here's a reason.

Nope.  There's at least a few account-wide achievements that were up on wotlkwiki before Blizz asked them to take it down.  One was "Has Leveled every class to 80" and another was "one 80 on both factions"

This isn't about prestige or "curing" alt-itis (and wtf is up with that elitist bullshit).  It's about giving something fun anyone can go after AND putting another hook in the customer's mouth for very little programming. (The latter being why we still haven't seen housing even hinted at.)

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's not elitist to want there to be incentive for people to stick with mains, as I JUST said I myself have several alts, my point is I want to play my main but often once you hit max level there isn't much incentive for that when you aren't doing things like raiding and I'd like there to be.

[sinij]

Can you spend these achievement points on anything?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Can you spend these achievement points on anything?

Non-combat pets, tabbards and titles they say

[Drubear]

Is it just my tinfoil hat or is this whole achievement thing (particularly so early in the beta cycle) a nervous ploy of Blizz's to put in something that people can work on now (rather than logging out in Shatt and going to play another game cuz they're sitting on piles of gold, exalted factions, and all the purplez they could want [or expect to get based on their access to arenas/pvp/marks or willing to get and then have replaced with drops from quest mobs in WoTLK].)

You know, all those achiever types (raises hand weakly) who will raise all those factions and explore all those areas etc. etc. etc. (esp. as we can now see what all you have to do) so that we get 10 minutes of DING GRATZ! when we log in for the first time on day 1 of WoTLK.

Cuz honestly, I don't see any reason for them to need public testing of this feature. Someone's gonna sploit exposing the map? They are concerned about the req's being too hard? Huh?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Is it just my tinfoil hat or is this whole achievement thing (particularly so early in the beta cycle) a nervous ploy of Blizz's to put in something that people can work on now (rather than logging out in Shatt and going to play another game cuz they're sitting on piles of gold, exalted factions, and all the purplez they could want [or expect to get based on their access to arenas/pvp/marks or willing to get and then have replaced with drops from quest mobs in WoTLK].)

You know, all those achiever types (raises hand weakly) who will raise all those factions and explore all those areas etc. etc. etc. (esp. as we can now see what all you have to do) so that we get 10 minutes of DING GRATZ! when we log in for the first time on day 1 of WoTLK.

Cuz honestly, I don't see any reason for them to need public testing of this feature. Someone's gonna sploit exposing the map? They are concerned about the req's being too hard? Huh?

I don't think anyone is disputing it's a time sink, I mean clearly this is only about ding gratz but somehow to me it's ding grats in it's purest form. No one 'needs' to do these things but you can, if you want. Sure if this was the only content added I'd be pissed but it's something extra and it's going to be more addictive than crack.

[Drubear]

I don't think anyone is disputing it's a time sink, I mean clearly this is only about ding gratz but somehow to me it's ding grats in it's purest form.

Oh, no doubt of that. I was questioning (positing?) "why now?" There will be more than enough spoilerfication on teh interwebs with all the talent builds, hunters nerfed, hunters op'd, etc. etc. So it can't be for buzz - there's a sh*tload of that already. Ok, so the coding was done - they couldn't hold it back when things started slowing down?

My notion was that all those other things are for the min/maxers to chew over, >>come the release<<, and this particular feature (vs. all others) gives you more reason to play the current game. I mean, why bother going for purples that will be outmoded with the reset? Other than your elite flying mount skill (what I'm mostly playing for now) there's not much to keep you from logging out until they release WoTLK. But now ... hmmm... I'm eyeing whatever I need to kill the Naxx boss, getting my reps to exalted (esp. Old World) etc. etc. I just think Blizz is worried that people aren't going to stick around until release, and may get hooked on something else (WAR, the new Rag, whatever) in the interim. Which says to me that release won't be till next year.

You read it here first...

[Merusk]

I just think Blizz is worried that people aren't going to stick around until release, and may get hooked on something else (WAR, the new Rag, whatever) in the interim. Which says to me that release won't be till next year.

Well, with the NDA dropped there was no reason NOT to announce it, it would have been put out there by testers sooner rather than later.  However, I do think you're right on the timing of WoTLK.  Everyone in game "thinks" it'll be out in November for the 4th year anniversary.*  I tend to think we won't see it until January, once again.


* Which makes me wonder about 'veteran' rewards and titles as well.  Wonder if they'll put something in for those who've been subbed 48 months, like CoX does.. or who have all the CE packs for the game.

[SurfD]

Im a bit of an alt-a-holic, but mostly because i seem to be stuck between Tier 4 and ZA for pvp progression and hate pvp. 

 

 

 

What?  I could probably have 2 or 3 level 70 characters decked out in tier 6 by now and be raiding Sunwell with my guild, but my current work schedule leaves me stuck with being able to attend the occasional guild ZA raid.  Having no fixed work hours sucks for attempting to raid anything on a regular schedule.

[Kail]

Makes me wonder if there is going to be a sudden surge of people trying to get a complete Naxx run under their belt, as it seems some of the achievements are going to be grandfathered in based on past accomplishments which may not be possible to do once WoLK goes live.

Any more details on this?  It seems highly improbable to me that Blizzard was tracking who all completed The Deadmines (or whatever) three years ago; a few of them (like Wailing Caverns) have Quests associated with them which presumably are tracked, but some don't (and it's possible to clear dungeons like Zul'Farak without completing the quest), so I wonder if they really do have data on this.

Either way, I do kind of hope that this leads to the inception of "Achievement" guilds or something, where you get a bunch of people together and raid AQ40 or whatever once per week.  The idea of running around, getting to see all the old content, blowing through it with overpowered characters, and having to do this exactly once for almost no reward seems like it could be a lot of fun to me.

And what's this about achievements being impossible once Lich King launches?  That would be shit horrible.  As far as I'm aware, Naxx isn't going anywhere (there's going to be "another" Naxx in Northrend, I thought, another one of those instances of the same thing being in two places at onces; was I misinformed?).  If Blizzard launches the achievement system with a bunch of achievements which can never be achieved, that seems colossally stupid.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Makes me wonder if there is going to be a sudden surge of people trying to get a complete Naxx run under their belt, as it seems some of the achievements are going to be grandfathered in based on past accomplishments which may not be possible to do once WoLK goes live.

Any more details on this?  It seems highly improbable to me that Blizzard was tracking who all completed The Deadmines (or whatever) three years ago; a few of them (like Wailing Caverns) have Quests associated with them which presumably are tracked, but some don't (and it's possible to clear dungeons like Zul'Farak without completing the quest), so I wonder if they really do have data on this.

Either way, I do kind of hope that this leads to the inception of "Achievement" guilds or something, where you get a bunch of people together and raid AQ40 or whatever once per week.  The idea of running around, getting to see all the old content, blowing through it with overpowered characters, and having to do this exactly once for almost no reward seems like it could be a lot of fun to me.

And what's this about achievements being impossible once Lich King launches?  That would be shit horrible.  As far as I'm aware, Naxx isn't going anywhere (there's going to be "another" Naxx in Northrend, I thought, another one of those instances of the same thing being in two places at onces; was I misinformed?).  If Blizzard launches the achievement system with a bunch of achievements which can never be achieved, that seems colossally stupid.

Well I know the bear mount from ZA is going to be removed with the expansion, so that's one.

[K9]

Some achievements will be inherently undoable on most or all realms. You cannot get an old-school pvp title, you probably can't open the AQ gates, and stuff like the TBC progression titles and ZA Bear mount will be unobtainable past 70. Similarly, promotional items from previous blizzcons and collectors editions will be unachievable for new players. Hence these "feats of strength" which recognise prior accomplishments, without actually offering any reward (like the regular achievements).

And judging by Tigoles posts on EJ, old Naxx will be going for good, which I hope is a misinterpretation on my part.

[pants]

As far as I'm aware, Naxx isn't going anywhere (there's going to be "another" Naxx in Northrend, I thought, another one of those instances of the same thing being in two places at onces; was I misinformed?). 

Why wouldn't Naxx move?  Its a floating Ziggarut that appeared in Plaguelands one day - no reason why Kel'Thuzad wouldn't just whack er into reverse and scoot on home to Northrend during the WoTLK launch.  From a coding perspective you had to zone through a portal to enter the zone, so thats a nothing job to change its portal location.  Quick change to the graphics of Plaguelands, and you're done.

[Rasix]

Im a bit of an alt-a-holic, but mostly because i seem to be stuck between Tier 4 and ZA for pvp progression and hate pvp. 

 

 

 

What?  I could probably have 2 or 3 level 70 characters decked out in tier 6 by now and be raiding Sunwell with my guild, but my current work schedule leaves me stuck with being able to attend the occasional guild ZA raid.  Having no fixed work hours sucks for attempting to raid anything on a regular schedule.

So, the first "pvp" wasn't a typo?  That's all I was going for.   

[Kail]

Some achievements will be inherently undoable on most or all realms. You cannot get an old-school pvp title, you probably can't open the AQ gates, and stuff like the TBC progression titles and ZA Bear mount will be unobtainable past 70. Similarly, promotional items from previous blizzcons and collectors editions will be unachievable for new players. Hence these "feats of strength" which recognise prior accomplishments, without actually offering any reward (like the regular achievements).

Just seems to defeat the point of introducing achievements, to me.  Something like opening AQ or getting an old PvP title, it was just something to do then, and if you weren't the one to ring the gong, then fine, whatever.  It doesn't matter today.  But in the sense of achievements as "something to do", adding achievements which will be unattainable seems pointless.  Achievements have always seemed like a "gotta catch 'em all" kind of thing, and putting in unobtainable ones seems to run against the whole concept of achievements as something to work towards or collect.  You either have it to start with or you'll never have it.  In either case, it's not something that is going to increase retention, which seems to be the whole point of achievements.

Why wouldn't Naxx move?  Its a floating Ziggarut that appeared in Plaguelands one day - no reason why Kel'Thuzad wouldn't just whack er into reverse and scoot on home to Northrend during the WoTLK launch.  From a coding perspective you had to zone through a portal to enter the zone, so thats a nothing job to change its portal location.  Quick change to the graphics of Plaguelands, and you're done.

Sorry, I meant in the sense that the level 60 dungeon would be gone, replaced with the 80 dungeon.  I don't care about them physically moving it, but I haven't heard anything about the Naxx in Northrend having a level 60 "wing" or anything, so I'm more worried about them just dropping the 60 dungeon altogether.  Even if the 60 content is only cleared once every six months, isn't it worth it to keep it around for that one time it's used, as opposed to just dropping it in the recycle bin?  Especially once you introduce a system of achievements which would encourage more players to visit it?

[Lakov_Sanite]

I find it funny people are saying "this content is neat, but it's pointless!" Well, so? content is content and games are here to be fun. I for one like having a little old world "killed ragnaros" stamp, i think that's one fo the ones that you won't be able to get in wotlk as it's for beating old world stuff at that level. is it epeening? sure but so what? it's bragging rights but takes away all the bs.

[Chimpy]

Old Naxx will be gone.

But 2/3 of the bosses are 5 mannable now because of the mechanical changes made with BC and the 10 extra levels.

Patchwerk has more HP than any other boss pre-BC, and it is less than 1/3 the health of the big bosses in 25 mans.

[Phunked]

Which bosses specifically have you 5 manned?

They're certainly much easier, but you can still wipe if you don't know the gimmick/screw up, etc.

[Kail]

But 2/3 of the bosses are 5 mannable now because of the mechanical changes made with BC and the 10 extra levels.

Which is irrelevant unless you can get a 5-man together to chase after this stuff before Lich King launches, which I can't.  Partially because nobody's really sure what all is going on here.  I mean, Lakov seems to be under the impression that you have to be at 60 to do this stuff for it to count; is he wrong, or are you?  Is it even going to matter; are ALL achievements going to be grandfathered in, or just the Feats of Strength?  And even if I could get a 5-man to raid Naxx, we're going to die, because we've never done it before (if we had, we wouldn't be doing this), and how many times can we wipe before the group disbands?

It would be one thing if Blizzard had the achievements up and explained how to get them now, but spending six hours in LFG trying to get a PUG to raid freaking Naxx because at some point it might possibly be gone and there may possibly be some way it's tracking it and if it does I may possibly qualify for an achievement which will possibly exist someday?  That seems stupid.  Doubly stupid if I log on post Lich King and can never unlock those achievements because I'm not psychic enough to divine what all I should have done beforehand.

But maybe they're not doing that, I dunno.  I remain optimistic that this won't suck; we'll see.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's my opinion blizzard has ALL this stuff saved and you won't get credit for naxx bosses now even if you kill them. all this stuff goes under feats of strength I would believe. The only ones you CAN do now are get the BC titles/bear mount and maybe kill kil'jaeden

[SurfD]

Im a bit of an alt-a-holic, but mostly because i seem to be stuck between Tier 4 and ZA for pvp progression and hate pvp. 

 

 

 

What?  I could probably have 2 or 3 level 70 characters decked out in tier 6 by now and be raiding Sunwell with my guild, but my current work schedule leaves me stuck with being able to attend the occasional guild ZA raid.  Having no fixed work hours sucks for attempting to raid anything on a regular schedule.

So, the first "pvp" wasn't a typo?  That's all I was going for.   

Yeah, the first pvp thing wasn't a typo.   I just generally don't like the repedativeness of battle grounds and i never really got into the arena thing.  Im mostly a PvE guy, but my irregular work hours don't allow for regular raiding on any kind of fixed time schedule.

[Azazel]

It's my opinion blizzard has ALL this stuff saved and you won't get credit for naxx bosses now even if you kill them. all this stuff goes under feats of strength I would believe. The only ones you CAN do now are get the BC titles/bear mount and maybe kill kil'jaeden

Considering they've said many times that they're redoing Naxx as a 10/20man for WOTLK, I think this is a pretty safe bet that they won't count. Naxx is going to be "new" content...

[K9]

There are separate achievements for the 10 and 25man equivalents of the same dungeon, so there's no reason why 40man content couldn't sit alongside that. I don't think it's going to happen though.

[Simond]

The old "Feat of Strength" (no longer doable) achievements don't even give any points, btw. They are pure bragging rights.

[Mrbloodworth]

LOTRO Deed system? The difference being that every single one of those look like grindy achievement. In LOTRO, a lot of the come from natural play, or slightly above natural play. That, and in LOTRO it is tied to the trait system, so some of them are useful enhancements or stat changers.

[cevik]

LOTRO Deed system? The difference being that every single one of those look like grindy achievement. In LOTRO, a lot of the come from natural play, or slightly above natural play. That, and in LOTRO it is tied to the trait system, so some of them are useful enhancements or stat changers.

Wait, falling more than 65 yards without dying is somehow more grindy than kill 120 goblins?

LOTRO has more than it's fair share of grindy deeds, just like WoW appears to have (from the lists I'm seeing) plenty of achievements that will happen over the natural course of play.