The Dark Knight

[Teleku]

After, he is a man of his word.

Othat than, y'know, the deliberate lies and complete dishonesty throughout the flick.

Actually, I thought he kept his word throughout all of it.  He was a sneaky underhanded bastard about it, but when he said he said he would kill somebody he did (except the mayor and dent, who he tried to but was foiled).  When he said if somebody didn't kill the guy who was going to reveal Batman in 60 minutes, he would blow up a Hospital, he did.  He pretty much carried out exactly every terrorist action he declared he would.

But again, it's a moot point because a boat load of hundreds of people wasn't going to be blown up successfully in a superhero movie.

[Polysorbate80]

How many robbers walked out of that bank job at the start of the movie?  Where did he say Rachel and Harvey were located?  And he sure didn't tell that guy with the bomb in his stomach that he was doomed.

I'm quite sure he's happy to kill and destroy when he's said he's going to.  But there's no reason at all to think he won't kill them even though he's said he won't.  He used the "blow up the hospital" bit partly to fuck with people but mostly to get to Harvey, and so far as I can tell torched the building with no way of knowing if the other guy had been killed or not.

------

There were enough prisoners to take the detonator, IMO.  Regardless, *the public has no way to know the cops had the detonator*.   Their perception would be "Prisoners done it", and the cops would probably let them think that.  Yeah, cops are fucked with guild, prisoners are double-fucked.

Except that won't happen, because if the only explosion is the prison boat, then all of a sudden those nasty ol' criminals were the noble self-sacrificing people while John Q. Public are the fearful murdering cowards.

------

Geek arguments beat working any day of the week 

[eldaec]

This has all been done before, but I liked it anyway.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4d6d5673d4

[Tale]

Finally took the time to read this thread the whole way through and wish I could unread the first 4 pages. How the hell you people associate some of the things you do is baffling.

I've just read up to your post and I think the same. Now I have to decontaminate my brain.

Also, I repeat what I said in the Iron Man thread. For me, Batman Begins was a comic book movie done right. Iron Man was just a big blockbustery entertainment thing, with some mediocre acting and a predictable plot. The Dark Knight is again what I would call a comic book movie done right, not a "crime film". This movie evoked exactly what was in my head when I read Batman comics.

Maybe it's about the kind of nerd you are. At school I sucked at maths and science, but I was a nerd for things that drew on imagination and creativity, like books and writing. These Batman films feed that in me, and so did the comic books.

[stray]

Who the hell was mediocre in Iron Man?

[Tale]

Who the hell was mediocre in Iron Man?

Jeff Bridges and Gwyneth Paltrow.

(edit) Also the plot script, the final fight, and the audience.

[stray]

Who the hell was mediocre in Iron Man?

Jeff Bridges and Gwyneth Paltrow.

(edit) Also the plot script, the final fight, and the audience.

Umm..The audience??


Sure, I guess Jeff Bridges may have been a weak link -- they coulda had a louder, more hostile type of villain, I guess. The Obadiah Stane of the comics was more along those lines -- but the way they wrote it here, his association with Tony Stark was as a partner. Not an obvious corporate adversary. So I guess it has to be more subtle. And Jeff Bridges has that thing about him where he can play "not quite trustworthy"... I see why he was cast at least.

I'm not sure what Pepper Potts is supposed to be other than what I saw in the movie. It's not the type of role that's ever going to cause an actor to channel their most "awesome acting skills", but not everyone can play hot, yet mousy and softspoken like Paltrow can.

[Venkman]

Iron Man was a fun movie but I didn't like the editing. The commercial cut the good lines and key music bits together better than the actual presentation. But the movie itself wasn't meant to be anything more than a fun origin story with sci-fi tech. I continue to think you don't compare that movie with Batman really. That they both come from IP that originated in comic books is the only link they have. Comic book movies with cheese and overacted semi-ok plots can be just as good in their own way as way-serious crime drama comic book movies.

[Riggswolfe]

I love this. It's a spoof of the Joker and Batman interrogation scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc

[Jain Zar]

I love this. It's a spoof of the Joker and Batman interrogation scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc

That was awesome.

[Samwise]

The first twenty seconds or so are really spot-on.

[Sky]

Didn't read the whole thread, just went to see the flick last night now that most of the crowd has dispersed. Great flick, despite batman's guttural mumbling. Other than that my only complaint was that they didn't go very far to try and make Bruce Wayne struggle with his transformation into a straight-up vigilante, you didn't get much good guy vibe from him the entire movie. And that's a minor complaint.

So much superior to Iron Man, and I'm a Marvel fanboi and IM is a great character (and was played well in the movie). Batman just had so much more going on at every level (though Batman himself was played kinda poorly in this film). Plot twists, false endings, great stuff.

And he sure didn't tell that guy with the bomb in his stomach that he was doomed.

But he didn't lie, he said he would cure him and make him see lights.

[Polysorbate80]

Sometimes the truth is the best lie 

[stray]

But he didn't lie, he said he would cure him and make him see lights.

That's freakin' hilarious. I didn't catch that right away.

[Furiously]

Well - I finally saw it today.

I think you all hyped it up too much, I was a bit disappointed.

I loved how they never showed batgirls face. Course her hair and mom's hair are a bit off....

[MrHat]

Well - I finally saw it today.

I think you all hyped it up too much, I was a bit disappointed.

I loved how they never showed batgirls face. Course her hair and mom's hair are a bit off....

wat

[SurfD]

Gwat
[/quote]Gordon's daughter?

[Ironwood]

Finally saw this.  Birthday Treat.

Fucking Awesome in every way.  Didn't quite top the first one, didn't need to.  Totally on par.

Those of you saying Two-Face died didn't watch the same film I did.

Further, Joker was perfect.  Fucking awesomely perfect.  Damn Shame.  Damn, damn shame.

 

[Oz]

happy Womb Evacuation Day!!

[Lantyssa]

Finally saw this last week.  I was very pleased to see a movie that relied on psychology and mindfucks to get points across, though it was a bit distrubing.

I was confused about the Harvey-Rachel bomb thing until reading here.  I thought Batman had said he was going for Rachel, so I was confused about him showing up for Harvey and nothing being said about it.  Makes sense now.

It's really a brilliant move on Joker's part though.  If Wayne decides to save the love of his life over principles, a living Harvey is a reminder that he compromised his principles to save her, and he still failed.  If Wayne goes after Harvey, his hopes for a better city go up in smoke with him, and is left with a bitter love interest whose fiance died while talking to her.  No matter who lived, they'd be messed up.  Don't forget Rachel was an assistant DA, too.

The boat scene was similar.  My guess was all the detonators were the same, and would have set off both boats.  The Joker didn't care who lived or died.  That wasn't the point of the delimma.  At most he was disappointed that he had to press the button himself.  I did like the big prisoner's response.  To go with the dog analogies, prisoners are often considered nothing but wild animals.  Civility and humanity weren't just masks though, and he knew the right thing to do when everyone else was wavering.  Other side of the coin, if you will.

That was the thing about the Joker's methods -- the exact outcome was never important.  Although he had a pretty good grasp of what would happen, it was how people reacted to get there which he relished.  It's why he was effective.  People were trying to outwit him, when he only wanted to see what they would do, and they only got more and more desperate because they couldn't grasp he wanted to see the means, not the ends.

I fear it would just become "Batman vs City Hall and the Mayor is SuperVillan X" but having a superhero try and stop the US government would be an interesting change. Dick Chaney can play himself.

Batman versus Batmanuel.  I love it!

[Velorath]

Those of you saying Two-Face died didn't watch the same film I did.

I guess.  You might want to tell the Nolans that there's a typo in their script then.  Might also want to tell the people that did the novelization of the movie that they got it wrong too.

[Ironwood]

I'll get right on it.

[El Gallo]

Finally saw it.  It was good, but I don't see how it lives up to the hype (maybe I just had too-high expectations after all the hype).  I liked it, don't get me wrong.  The Joker was great, and the scene with him and Two-Face in the hospital was especially great.  My list of complaints and nitpicks is fairly long:

-Why does Batman sound like one of the Golden Girls after smoking 3 cartons of Lucky Strikes?

-Batman is, fundamentally, an arch-conservative (indeed, neo-feudal) character.  He's fundamentally anti-democratic and anti-Christian.  That's part of what makes the character uncomfortable and interesting to modern audiences.  However, just where the audience's discomfort with this starts to really take hold, they glom on this "he's built the super-USAPATRIOT Act Computer.  But, ahhh, you see, he gave the keys to that nice old guy from Driving Miss Daisy, isn't that special" bit and so on.  It not only felt trite, but was a complete conflict with the overarching theme of the franchise.  Speaking of the USAPATRIOT Act computer, the special effect for it was lame as hell, and undercut some of the thrill that the climactic fight -- Batman vs three dogs! -- would normally inspire.

-The movie was way, way too long.  They could cut the Obligatory Generic Car Chase Scene down to a mere 45 minutes or so.  The entire going-to-China sequence was a waste of film.  So was Morgan Freeman's character, the "omgz Gordon is dead" crap, lots of the mob shit, and every scene with the Mayor in it.  Movie would be much better if it was tighter.

-I know that every action movie has to have roughly 36 false endings nowadays, but the movie should have ended after the Batman-Joker showdown.  I certainly do not give one single, solitary shit about what happens to Commissioner Gordon's crotchspawn.  It also wastes a good villain.  You can make Batman an outlaw anytime earlier (and do a much better job of it).

-Where's the dark?  The After-School-Special happytime resolution to the Prisoners Dilemma?  Lame. The scene lacked tension because you knew there wouldn't be consequences and, voila, there weren't.  If they insist on giving us the "happy" ending, have both boats make the moral choice and die for it.  If they want dark, have one blow up the other, the Joker claim it's a win, Batman tell him that the people would have done that anyway, roll credits.  Lends moral weight to Batman's crusade to save Gotham while also reinforcing his aristocratic disdain for its actual inhabitants.  Cheating with the after-school-special ending is bad enough, but if you do that PLEASE don't give us painfully long shots of the buttons, OMG HUGE BLACK CONVICT and OMG BERNARD GOETZ to painfully telegraph to the audience that nothing interesting is going to happen.

Also, blowing up two ferryboats is a pretty lame way to infuse mass terror when you have millions trapped on an island.

-any one of those ballet dancers bosoms weighs more than any actual ballet dancer!  However, I will accept this an appropriate artistic license.

Anyway, it was a good summer blockbuster and more than worth the $10.50, but I'm not seeing the great cinema that many others seem to. 

[Bungee]

TEXT

Anyway, it was a good summer blockbuster and more than worth the $10.50, but I'm not seeing the great cinema that many others seem to. 

Mimimi

Film was class A and I hate people who claim they could've done it sooo much better on any film.
Write your own script and show us.
Also, such films aren't for the nerds, but for the masses.

[murdoc]

TEXT

Anyway, it was a good summer blockbuster and more than worth the $10.50, but I'm not seeing the great cinema that many others seem to. 

Mimimi

Film was class A and I hate people who claim they could've done it sooo much better on any film.
Write your own script and show us.
Also, such films aren't for the nerds, but for the masses.

I hate people who claim that people said something they didn't say and somehow think they can tell them that their opinion is wrong. He had complaints and nitpicks, give me a break, there was no claims of 'I could do this better'.

I loved The Dark Knight a TON, rank it up there in one of my top 5 favorite movies of all times, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to view it that way. Get a grip imo.

[stray]

There's lots of things El Gallo said that I agree with... coulda been tighter mainly.

Really not seeing anything in Batman that has to do with "class" though. I don't see the "aristocratic disdain". Bruce Wayne, the rich motherfucker side of him, I mean -- that part of him is just an act. Even when he does the whole cellphone/massive spying thing on Gotham's inhabitants, I don't think it came out of some need to be some aristocratic/neo-feudal/arch conservative/what have you. He was simply pushed to the point of desperation, just like everyone else who dealt with Joker.

[Venkman]

Film was class A and I hate people who claim they could've done it sooo much better on any film.
Write your own script and show us.
Also, such films aren't for the nerds, but for the masses.

Wait, wha? Internet much? Ranting about game design and sports is fine but knocking movies is wrong?

I think El Gallo had good points, even if they were wrong and stupid.

(kidding!)

 

[Bungee]

Wait, wha? Internet much? Ranting about game design and sports is fine but knocking movies is wrong?

I think El Gallo had good points, even if they were wrong and stupid.

(kidding!)

 

Yes, it's a film. A finished product with no way of changing it. (Who exactly is going to see the Director's cut anyway?)
Games can be patched, or one can make the very same game better and call it different.
And WTH does sports have to do with that?

I just think it's one thing when discussing a plot and what may happened between scenes (nerdy stuff as it's also called) and just coming out and saying "could've/should've/ would've been better".
I know I'm being a dick in this regards (sue me :P), but as I said- I can't stand such talk about a film that was just fine for the most part and 99.9% of people having watched it.

Edit:
Oh and I think I should clear up the "for the masses not nerds" line:
This was thrown towards the "let the boats blow up and kill more people ffs". After all, it's Hollywood!

[Lantyssa]

-The movie was way, way too long.  They could cut the Obligatory Generic Car Chase Scene down to a mere 45 minutes or so.  The entire going-to-China sequence was a waste of film.  So was Morgan Freeman's character, the "omgz Gordon is dead" crap, lots of the mob shit, and every scene with the Mayor BatManuel in it.  Movie would be much better if it was tighter.

No.  No.  No.  No.  One does not simply cut out the BatManuel.  His beauty must be enjoyed by all!

(Say it with a bad Spanish accent.  It totally works!)

[Brogarn]

No.  No.  No.  No.  One does not simply cut out the BatManuel.  His beauty must be enjoyed by all!

(Say it with a bad Spanish accent.  It totally works!)

Beauty like that of soft Corinthian leather...

[WindupAtheist]

It's still at #4 and poised to break $500 million this weekend.  I still don't think it's a thread to Titanic's $600 million, but it's showing more legs than I expected...

[rk47]

http://gawker.com/5037992/robert-downey-jr-fuck-dc-comics

This is so high brow and so fucking smart, I clearly need a college education to understand this movie.' You know what? Fuck DC comics. That's all I have to say and that's where I'm really coming from.

  him

[Venkman]

Awesome. Love the last paragraph:

"You know, you're never too old to burn your bridges because I believe I have offended everyone. I think I've got a couple more. 'I'll burn that bridge when I come to it' is my favourite phrase I've ever coined."

[Velorath]

It's still at #4 and poised to break $500 million this weekend.  I still don't think it's a thread to Titanic's $600 million, but it's showing more legs than I expected...

The downside is that between Dark Knight and Watchmen, we're potentially looking at comic book movies starting to mirror the "grim and gritty" era of comics from the 80's (which, not coincidentally, really went into full swing when Dark Knight Returns launched, followed by Watchmen a little over half a year later).  We're already seeing hints of it in this interview with Warner Pictures President Jeff Robinov:

Like the recent Batman sequel -- which has become the highest-grossing film of the year thus far -- Mr. Robinov wants his next pack of superhero movies to be bathed in the same brooding tone as "The Dark Knight." Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the key to unlocking some of Warner Bros.' DC properties. "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it," he says. That goes for the company's Superman franchise as well.

Between that and Sony already contemplating a Venom movie (and Vin Diesel suggesting he'd like to play a Marvel villain), we could be looking at a case of history repeating itself here.

[stray]

I imagine even Iron Man might tap into Stark's dark side as well. Which is OK, because Downey Jr. can still make that fun too.

It's not a trend I'd like to see too much of though. I dig the heroic/cheeky/popcorn aspect of these stories a lot more.