The Dark Knight

[Tannhauser]

Just watched it.  A great movie but Iron Man is better.  Ledger is a great Joker but for an 'anarchist' he had some really detailed plans carried out by some rather intelligent goons. 

Likes
Ledger
The cops actually being shown as either corrupt or stand-up guys.  A good job showing the cops and enough detail for these secondary characters.
The pencil trick
The ferry dilemma.
Any scene with the Joker.
The movie actually makes your care about the soul of a city. 

Dislikes
Gyllenhall, just didn't cut it for me
Morgan Fuckinfreeman-Is anyone else out there sick and tired of this old, dignified schtick?


A great movie, glad I saw it, but it is over-hyped to me.

[stray]

I've been thinking about why the city looks a bit brighter and cleaner than in begins.  I wonder if they did that deliberately to show that Batman's actions are helping clean up the city, that things are looking less grim now for the average Gotham citizen.

A lot of Batman Begins wasn't done on location, but in an actual set -- a gigantic hangar out in England or some shit. Even some car scenes. Or scenes like ones with the tram at the end, or the ghetto where Batman is climbing around to investigate those stuffed animals (where he first encounters Scarecrow) -- all of those are in a controlled set. So there's going to be more deliberate design choices in that case.

Didn't seem to be the same scenario here. Both were based on and shot in Chicago, but they did it even more in this film (perhaps because they had more cash /shrug).

[naum]

overall, good flick, but i rate it less than batman begins (and ironman), though it really not a sequel…

POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD (for the few of you who haven't caught it yet)










LIKED

* heath ledger did an awesome job with the joker part
* tragedy occurs to protagonists
* lots of incredible action sequences sans the fruity CGI (or at least done subtlely) that's all the rage these days

DISLIKED

* 1st half was great, 2nd half of flick got bogged down into too many threads, some stuff should have been left for another movie
* batman w/so many lapses in judgment, a few OK but he's like a bumbling idiot by the end
* seemed to be the same sequence repeated a bit, movie could have been shortened
* bale's voice as batman a little too much on the effect

FINALLY, THE ABSURD AND SILLY

* sonar imaging entire city w/cellphones, eh a bit of a stretch even for batman tech
* batman tearing through legions and equipped w/special armor gets manhandled by a couple of measly dogs and mental patient resembling joker

[stray]

He's got a dog phobia obviously. That was established in the First Act.

And as the Joker himself pointed out, he's just a dog too.




Seriously though, I can sort of see that being close to why. Or at least, I see that that's what is trying to be communicated there. Why he's able to wail on Batman with a pipe and two Rotts, and why Batman makes mistakes with him (there's also the fact that Batman changed his suit for more mobility, at the expense of protection).

There's also that scene with Alfred that pretty much points it out, where Bruce thinks he's gonna track and take the Joker down like everyone else because he's just a "criminal" -- and then Alfred reminds him that the Joker isn't a criminal. He just wants to fuck everything up and set the world on fire. A completely different beast. He can't be predicted or stopped. An "immoveable object" to Batman's "unstoppable force".

[LK]

Also keep in mind that Batman is being portrayed not as the unstoppable super-genius in the comics but a fallable human being.  This is first encounter with a "freak" who thinks completely different from the mob class that's used to him.  Fear was an asset he used to get the job done as Batman on common criminals.  The Joker is immune to that fear because he knows Batman won't kill him and can take the pain for sure, and, after the Joker relays that to the mob boys, the mob loses its fear of Batman.  They'll get beat up, sure, but they won't die.

Two-Face though... he's put fear into mobsters because he WILL kill.

[stray]

Ah yes, the Fear.

My favorite scene is the Joker standing in front of Batman's bike, just egging him on to run him over.

[schild]

Why so serious? It's a good movie. Nay, it's a fucking amazing movie. No need to get all film major on it. I think everyone is enjoying it wrong.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Ah yes, the Fear.

My favorite scene is the Joker standing in front of Batman's bike, just egging him on to run him over.

That's the great thing though, he wasn't egging batman on because batman couldn't hear him, he was psyching himself up to get hit by a motorcycle.

[Abagadro]

Why so serious? It's a good movie. Nay, it's a fucking amazing movie. No need to get all film major on it. I think everyone is enjoying it wrong.

It is possible for one to enjoy a movie on more than one level.

[schild]

Why so serious? It's a good movie. Nay, it's a fucking amazing movie. No need to get all film major on it. I think everyone is enjoying it wrong.

It is possible for one to enjoy a movie on more than one level.

I agree. This movie was pure sex.

[stray]

Ah yes, the Fear.

My favorite scene is the Joker standing in front of Batman's bike, just egging him on to run him over.

That's the great thing though, he wasn't egging batman on because batman couldn't hear him, he was psyching himself up to get hit by a motorcycle.

Sorry to get serious ( ), but I think there's a part of him that would love for Batman to give in, corrupt himself, and do shit like that... But he knows it isn't going to happen. Hence, no fear. He's immune to Batman's brand of bullshit.

[schild]

The serious bit was more a response to Litigator and anyone else who inadvertently has this desire to ruin the magic of this particular hollywood Thing. Batman: The Dark Knight is above that shit.

[Trippy]

Who is "we"?

For those who are interested:

Dneg - Bruce's penthouse scenes, armored car chase, Batmobile/Batpod/chopper, big crowd scene, ferries, Gotham City views and extensions, Pruitt building sequence, batsignals, digital doubles

Framestore (I'm not entirely sure of their total workload) - Two Face, Hong Kong sequence, Hospital sequence, digital doubles, sonar vision eyes.

Buf -  sonar vision POV shots.

New Deal Studios (miniatures and models) - Garbage Truck crash, Hong Kong pyro building elements.

Cinesite Europe - ground level Batsignal beams, some grapple gun wires, additional comps.

In all there are approximately 700 shots in the final film. I'd guess that around 200 of those are IMAX, the rest are anamorphic scope.

Cool thanks, which one do you work at?

[Hoax]

Why so serious? It's a good movie. Nay, it's a fucking amazing movie. No need to get all film major on it. I think everyone is enjoying it wrong.

This is why I'm not going to read this thread, amazing movie, better then Iron Man.  Fantastic fantastic flick.

[stray]

Really? Thought it better than Iron Man eh? Thought you'd be the de facto ultimate Iron Man is the "best adaptation ever" fan for life here. 

Anyways, yeah... read over the whole thread now. A bit much. I don't think that's even "film school" talk...what with the Rumsfeld references and shit. Heh

[Phildo]

The power of Myth!

[HaemishM]

Ah yes, the Fear.

My favorite scene is the Joker standing in front of Batman's bike, just egging him on to run him over.

That's the great thing though, he wasn't egging batman on because batman couldn't hear him, he was psyching himself up to get hit by a motorcycle.

No, he was begging Batman to KILL him. If Batman gets corrupted, if he gives up his rules, the Joker wins. And he's so full of self-loating anyway, he doesn't care if he dies, because all life is just a really bad joke anyway. It all means nothing, including his life. If Batman runs him over, he wins and the pain is gone.

[stray]

I have to ask though... Some of you said (in a serious way) that he was disturbing, and possibly nightmare inducing. I mean... Really? Don't get me wrong, I thought he was great, but I didn't get that vibe at all. It was still a comic book movie to me and mostly just..entertaining. Do you guys see something about the Joker that I don't? Or even identify with that kind of pain (because that shit would be disturbing)?

I also don't buy that it was the reason that pushed Heath over the edge. Acting is powerful, but not even the most intense method actors get that caught up in it. The idea that they do is overstated, I think. He had a lot of other shit going on to keep him up at nights.

[jpark]

Why so serious? It's a good movie. Nay, it's a fucking amazing movie. No need to get all film major on it. I think everyone is enjoying it wrong.

It is possible for one to enjoy a movie on more than one level.

I agree. This movie was pure sex.

Hmm.. I hope you saw it privately :P

[pxib]

Eh.

Great film... if I hadn't had assorted character baggage I would have had no complaints, but I do not like either this take on the Joker or Batman's response to it. This Joker was, as mentioned, far too clever... especially with how totally off-the-wall nuts he was. There's a difference between being three steps ahead of the heroes and having a screenwriter's eye view of the movie ahead. Additionally, all the sense of gravitas that the Joker has always had, the suit and immaculate hair, was hidden under sweat and dirty greasepaint. Normally the madness doesn't sink in until he's worked himself up to it. Worse yet, the sense of a joke -- the denial of expectation that the Joker thrives on -- was missing from almost every one of his set pieces. His interest was corruption, not art, and I felt that cheapened him.

The Joker has you at his mercy, gun to your face, and... a flag comes out that says "BANG". He doesn't actually shoot you until you think all he's got is fake guns... and then he shoots you somewhere that isn't immediately vital so you can appreciate the irony.

Then Batman himself... how is it that he's willing to throw in the towel and give up just because some crazed psychopath wanders into town. Where is that single-minded, blunt instrument that we know and love? All that holds Batman's encroaching madness in check is his twin consciences, Commissioner Gordon and Albert... so why is Albert the one who has to deliver Batman's lines about needing to see a fight through? That is the LAST thing anybody ought to need to convince him of.

But... again, if I didn't know the characters I would have liked the film. Other than the psychic Joker.

[Abagadro]

All that holds Batman's encroaching madness in check is his twin consciences, Commissioner Gordon and Albert... so why is Albert the one who has to deliver Batman's lines about needing to see a fight through? That is the LAST thing anybody ought to need to convince him of.

Who the hell is Albert?

[tazelbain]

Good Movie.

My quibbles.

1) Joker who isn't Joker annoys me.
2) Everything from Batwiretap on was mediocre.
3) Two-face deserved his own movie.
4) The anti-authoritarian elements don't really stack up with the pro-authoritarian elements.  And in the political climate seem like a glib handling of a serious issue, like 24.

[Trippy]

All that holds Batman's encroaching madness in check is his twin consciences, Commissioner Gordon and Albert... so why is Albert the one who has to deliver Batman's lines about needing to see a fight through? That is the LAST thing anybody ought to need to convince him of.

Who the hell is Albert?

Alfred's long lost twin-brother?

[ahoythematey]

Worse yet, the sense of a joke -- the denial of expectation that the Joker thrives on -- was missing from almost every one of his set pieces. His interest was corruption, not art, and I felt that cheapened him.

The Joker has you at his mercy, gun to your face, and... a flag comes out that says "BANG". He doesn't actually shoot you until you think all he's got is fake guns... and then he shoots you somewhere that isn't immediately vital so you can appreciate the irony.

Lol wut?  Smoke grenade in bank managers mouth.  Pencil Magic Trick.  "I like this job, I like it I like it."  Laughing at his dumb hood getting hurt by the shocking mechanism on batman's mask.  Nurse's uniform.  Sanitizing his hands.

He's the best joker outside of comic-book form since the one from the animated series, and even better than that one in the context of the this film's style.

Then Batman himself... how is it that he's willing to throw in the towel and give up just because some crazed psychopath wanders into town. Where is that single-minded, blunt instrument that we know and love? All that holds Batman's encroaching madness in check is his twin consciences, Commissioner Gordon and Albert... so why is Albert the one who has to deliver Batman's lines about needing to see a fight through? That is the LAST thing anybody ought to need to convince him of.

But... again, if I didn't know the characters I would have liked the film.

It doesn't seem like you know the characters then, considering his name is Alfred and you seem to be confusing batman with James Bond.  Batman is not a single-minded, blunt instrument: he's the greatest detective in the world.  When he fights, he uses tricks and deception to maintain the upper hand and confuse those he is fighting.  The take I got from the movie is that he wants to give up being Batman but deep down knows he can't give it up and sort of "lucks out" with what Dent does, that like Rachel says and Alfred is probably aware of, he needs Batman in his life even if they just want Bruce.

As for the Iron Man thing: hey, I liked Iron Man an awful lot, but TDK is far and away a better movie regardless of personal favorites or preferences.  RDJ was awesome in his role, I thought he did a much better job than Bale did in his this time around, but the rest of the meat in that picture didn't live up, particularly Obediah.

[UnSub]

All that holds Batman's encroaching madness in check is his twin consciences, Commissioner Gordon and Albert... so why is Albert the one who has to deliver Batman's lines about needing to see a fight through? That is the LAST thing anybody ought to need to convince him of.

Who the hell is Albert?

[UnSub]

The thing about Batman in "The Dark Knight" is that he's an extention of Batman in "Batman Begins", not the comic. This Batman is a lot more dependent on outside help - he needs Alfred as a mentor, he needs Gordon as an ally, he wants Dent as a replacement, etc. He's also still a bit rash.

Come the 3rd Batman film under Nolan and I'd expect to see Batman stripped of his support networks and left up against someone like Bane.

[stray]

regardless of personal favorites or preferences.

Eh? Did the Pope make some by fiat announcement about this or what?

Isn't preference all that should matter? It is as far as I'm concerned, at least. Iron Man is fast paced, colorful, cheeky, metal clanking fun -- the kind of summer movie I would have gone crazy about as a kid. The kind I would rank highly over other types of movies in general. There's also some original things to it that just make it great to me -- for one, it's great to see a favorite actor in a mainstream genre flick (much like PotC). Secondly, the action is something I haven't quite seen on screen before -- some kind of part Robocop, part Superman, part Real Genius, part Top Gun shit. I won't go so far as to say that it's "original" (since Iron Man's been around some 40 years), but it is pretty original as far as movies go. I'm fascinated, much like I was for the Spider-Man movies (which hadn't been seen before either). Those two Marvel movies are done in a way that makes it look like so much fun to be these guys.

Batman doesn't do that for me (well, besides the car...I'd like to have that fucking car). It's dark, cool, mature, cerebral, thoughtfully paced, and all that good shit -- but not exactly fun or fascinating to me. That isn't to say I don't like it, but I'd always rank a movie like Iron Man better than it. That's just me. I think it's cool to finally see the stories finally getting pulled off, and the characters done justice, but it's still done in a way that as isn't exciting as I'd like (maybe that's just the nature of Batman). Thougt provoking (especially Harvey imo), yes, but not fascinating.

[Big Gulp]

3) Two-face deserved his own movie.

Yeah, they really rushed that plotline to the detriment of the series.  All they really had to do with Harvey is end his storyline after he gets all pissy with Gordon in the hospital room.  The descent of Harvey Dent is something that deserves a little bit more gravitas than was shown here, and should have been the main plot of movie 3.

[ahoythematey]

Eh? Did the Pope make some by fiat announcement about this or what?

Isn't preference all that should matter? It is as far as I'm concerned, at least. Iron Man is fast paced, colorful, cheeky, metal clanking fun -- the kind of summer movie I would have gone crazy about as a kid. The kind I would rank highly over other types of movies in general. There's also some original things to it that just make it great to me -- for one, it's great to see a favorite actor in a mainstream genre flick (much like PotC). Secondly, the action is something I haven't quite seen on screen before -- some kind of part Robocop, part Superman, part Real Genius, part Top Gun shit. I won't go so far as to say that it's "original" (since Iron Man's been around some 40 years), but it is pretty original as far as movies go. I'm fascinated, much like I was for the Spider-Man movies (which hadn't been seen before either). Those two Marvel movies are done in a way that makes it look like so much fun to be these guys.

Batman doesn't do that for me (well, besides the car...I'd like to have that fucking car). It's dark, cool, mature, cerebral, thoughtfully paced, and all that good shit -- but not exactly fun or fascinating to me. That isn't to say I don't like it, but I'd always rank a movie like Iron Man better than it. That's just me. I think it's cool to finally see the stories finally getting pulled off, and the characters done justice, but it's still done in a way that as isn't exciting as I'd like (maybe that's just the nature of Batman). Thougt provoking (especially Harvey imo), yes, but not fascinating.

It wasn't the Pope, actually, but his evil-twin Rufus.

I suppose it's more quibbling over small things considering that both movies are so good at what they do, but I guess the reason(s) that I feel like TDK was a better movie over Iron Man mainly had to do with the fact that Iron Man was an origin story and TDK was all follow-up/pay-off to an origin story.  I'll retract comparing the two and instead wait for Iron Man 2 before appointing TDK to The Throne.

[Salamok]

Spoilers ahead.
















Liked:
- Best batman movie yet.
- Writing and directing were awesome.
- Heath nailed it.
- Excellent movie to see in imax (although if your imax is like Austins imax the seats weren't made for 2.5 hours of comfort and no concession stand so bring your own)

Disliked:
- Maggie Gyllenhaal - I get that she may add to the darkness/realness of the film but the bags under the eyes milf look isn't exactly what I want for a damsel in distress.  imax definately didn't do her justice (or maybe it did)...
- Batman sure doesn't seem to have much care for civilian casualties (blowing up cars caught in traffic jams, firing vehicle mounted machine guns to break a pane of glass in a crowded shopping mall, self destruct bomb right next to some workers) for someone who's code of ethics is so strict he can't kill the joker...  I personally thought these scenes were just fluff eye candy that did more damage to the movie than good.
- Ya i get the whole voice disguise but the batman voice is a little too over the top and gets old quick, Also makes him look like he is hawking up a loogie.
- I personally don't care for Christian Bale as batman but it isn't enough to ruin the movie.
- Would have liked to see batman go to save the chick at the end only to find out the Joker lied about who was where and end up saving harvey instead.  Sort of looked like it was leading up to that, who knows maybe it got cut.

[jason]

People keep saying that the Joker made too many plans to be an anarchist... do you people actually ever read the comics?  The Joker often makes incredibly elaborate plans (usually with very simple elements, like bombs and guns)... He is an anarchist in the same way that most people are anarchists, he makes plans in order to mess up other people's plans.

[HaemishM]

The thing about Batman in "The Dark Knight" is that he's an extention of Batman in "Batman Begins", not the comic. This Batman is a lot more dependent on outside help - he needs Alfred as a mentor, he needs Gordon as an ally, he wants Dent as a replacement, etc. He's also still a bit rash.

Come the 3rd Batman film under Nolan and I'd expect to see Batman stripped of his support networks and left up against someone like Bane.

Yes. I have looked at these Batman movies as like one big extended "Batman: Year One" story. Batman is still finding his way, getting his methods down. Hell, he was still changing the suit. This isn't the completely assured Batman of the current comics, he's the very human, flawed character who still isn't quite sure what he's doing and whether what he's doing is the right thing, hence the reason he's ready to chuck it if it will help save Gotham. The same goes for the Joker... I assume that if the Joker character had shown up in later movies, he would have been a little more theatrical, though maybe not with the BANG flags on the guns. He still had plenty of those kinds of jokes though, the pencil thing being my favorite.

[Broughden]

- Would have liked to see batman go to save the chick at the end only to find out the Joker lied about who was where and end up saving harvey instead.  Sort of looked like it was leading up to that, who knows maybe it got cut.

Uhm....not sure how to tell you this....but thats exactly what did happen. Joker told him Rachel was at location "X". He went there to save her. But in reality it was Harvey who was there.

[AcidCat]

I have to ask though... Some of you said (in a serious way) that he was disturbing, and possibly nightmare inducing. I mean... Really? Don't get me wrong, I thought he was great, but I didn't get that vibe at all. It was still a comic book movie to me and mostly just..entertaining. Do you guys see something about the Joker that I don't? Or even identify with that kind of pain (because that shit would be disturbing)?

I also don't buy that it was the reason that pushed Heath over the edge. Acting is powerful, but not even the most intense method actors get that caught up in it. The idea that they do is overstated, I think. He had a lot of other shit going on to keep him up at nights.

I agree, the Joker was too over the top to be truly disturbing, I just found him hilariously awesome. I don't know, but I imagine Heath probably enjoyed the hell out of that role, how could you not? Whatever his personal demons were I really doubt they were related to playing the Joker. If anything, Harvey Dent's transformation was more disturbing.

Anyway, the movie was even better than I was expecting. Even my wife, who usually gets bored and loses interest halfway through my "guy movies" really loved it.

[stray]

Yeah, Harvey was pretty sad. I don't think I ever understood or appreciated just how tragic a character he was until this. I think his inclusion into the film was fine though... There was a moment there where the film lulled, and I was like "get it the fuck over with already", but he was kind of the icing on the cake to the Batman/Joker dualism. Or something. Maybe I'm making more out of it (then again, this is Nolan..he's probably trying to say even more than I think). And again, I think that should end it. No more sequels. There isn't anywhere to go but down from here.

Every time Joker entered a scene I giggled. He wasn't over the top funny, but just subtly and intelligently amusing. His entry into the mob meeting was the shit..Just deadpanning the laugh. Hahahaha hehe hehe...ho ho ho..hah....ho..heh. You know Heath was just having fun with it, and slightly making fun of the comics there. Also, and I said this when the trailers came out...that voice and the hunched shoulders kind of reminded me of Ed Sullivan. Heh. I couldn't possibly be disturbed by that.