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Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #35 on: July 20, 2008, 10:01:54 PM

I have no idea how they gave that fight to Griffin, I need to watch it again maybe but you dont take a title unless you took a title.  For my money he didn't do shit besides not capitalize on fucking up Jackson's leg for shit and fight 3 close rounds with him after losing the first badly.

I love me some UFC.

I'm very very much looking forward to August 9th's ppv.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Slayerik
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Reply #36 on: July 21, 2008, 08:57:18 AM

So...some impressions from the fights Saturday?

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Cyrrex
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Reply #37 on: July 21, 2008, 10:55:34 AM

So...some impressions from the fights Saturday?

I'll give it a whirl. 

First - Silva vs Irvin.  Only reason the fight lasted as long as it did (one whole minute!) was because it took most of that time before either of them either made a move.  Irvin throws a half-assed leg kick.  Silva catches it and sends a straight right into Irvin's face while still holding the leg.  I think I have seen that happen before, but not to such devastating effect.  It was pretty much game over at that point, with the formality of a few smacks about the head only serving to make sure that Irvin really was toast.  Anyone watching that fight having never seen Anderson Silva in action might call it a fluke, but he seems to do crazy shit like that ALL THE TIME.  I do think he will lose a fight in the UFC eventually (it is MMA after all), but they guy is freaky good. 

Sylvia vs Fedor....what can be said?  Fedor basically just waded in and said "I give fuckall about how tall you are and how good of a striker you are" and just...fucking socked Sylvia straight in the face.  When Sylvia goes down, he continues to bash his face in, methodically waits and gets the hooks in, rolls him over and starts choking him.  Not even a regular choke, but a "I'm going to crush your wind-pipe just because I can" choke.  What, thirty six seconds?  The only way I can describe the kind of beat down he gave is to say - with a completely straight face - that I would have done just as well as Tim Sylvia did.  Because he whooped Sylvia like he was any chump off the street.

Other fights I saw...uneventful.  One dude got repeatedly poked in the eye.  Brandon Vera looked like a sack of crap at Light Heavyweight.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Hoax
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Reply #38 on: July 29, 2008, 02:39:31 PM

I somehow managed to not see the overcard fights just the unbroadcasted stuff (damn pirates) from UFN but here's my thoughts.

Silva and Fedor are dominant, Fedor is like Tyson, how can you not be scared of that guy?  Fucking beast.  Silva is even better, because he's just THAT fucking good.  I think tbh the worst thing that happened in 185 was that fucking knee to the head in the Leitis v Marquart fight.  If that had been a proper win for someone I'd like to see them fight Silva.  Btw, I think Silva would probably kill Griffin, who shouldn't be champ anyways in my mind...  It'd be like the Franklin v Silva fights all over again.

I see the top tier of the UFC 185 as being:
Silva
Marquart
Evans
Leitis
Bisping (I hate to put him here, but he's on a roll, I hate this fucker)

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Johny Cee
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Reply #39 on: July 29, 2008, 04:05:28 PM

I somehow managed to not see the overcard fights just the unbroadcasted stuff (damn pirates) from UFN but here's my thoughts.

Silva and Fedor are dominant, Fedor is like Tyson, how can you not be scared of that guy?  Fucking beast.  Silva is even better, because he's just THAT fucking good.  I think tbh the worst thing that happened in 185 was that fucking knee to the head in the Leitis v Marquart fight.  If that had been a proper win for someone I'd like to see them fight Silva.  Btw, I think Silva would probably kill Griffin, who shouldn't be champ anyways in my mind...  It'd be like the Franklin v Silva fights all over again.

I see the top tier of the UFC 185 as being:
Silva
Marquart
Evans
Leitis
Bisping (I hate to put him here, but he's on a roll, I hate this fucker)


I'd put top four at:

Silva
Henderson
Franklin
Okami

And then its a scrum of Marquart, Cote, Kampmann (if he isn't injured) or winner of Bisping/Leben.  Almeida needs a couple matches, and Leites is kind of meh to me after the Marquart fight.  I think Henderson and Franklin could beat pretty much anyone else in the division,  but would get killed by Silva (again).

- Evans is at LHW still,  and scheduled to face Liddell in a couple months

- Cote has been really, really solid despite the uninteresting fight with Almeida.  Four straight (including two highlight reel KOs) in UFC, and he killed Jason Day outside UFC (same guy that Bisping just KOed)

- Bisping has only had two fights at MW after a mediocre run in the LHW div.  McCarthy was forgettable, and Jason Day was a beating.  But Cote also has a recent KO of Day.

- Leben has had a couple decent wins (Martin and Sakara) lately.


Anderson Silva's next title defense is in October.  Originally scheduled against Okami,  Okami is out with an injury and will be replaced by Cote.  Cote is going to be destroyed.


Margalis
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Reply #40 on: July 29, 2008, 10:14:47 PM

There is a huge gap between Silva and the rest of the field. Rich Franklin's deer-in-headlights look when he got destroyed in the clinch their first fight was hilarious.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Arnold
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Reply #41 on: July 30, 2008, 02:42:10 AM

I'd like this to be "The MMA Thread", but I'm unsure of the potential popularity around here - I guess MMA has a reputation for being a sport for white trash/rednecks.  I don't agree, because I love it. Maybe I actually AM white trash, and am wholly unaware of it.

Anywho, two really interesting fights this weekend.  Anderson Silva moving up a weight class and fighting a guy who should give him more of a battle than the average tomato can.  The return of Fedor, fighting a former UFC heavyweight champ.  Also, Rampage goes on a rampage and gets his ass arrested.  Bitter over his loss?

Feel free to ignore.  Or discuss.

Urijah Faber has been into my restaurant several times and he's always super cool and laid back; NOT white trash at all.  The first time I met him, he gave me his card and said he was opening an MMA gym.  I had no idea who he was at the time.
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Reply #42 on: July 30, 2008, 02:50:25 AM

Actually Nascar is a sport for white trash and rednecks. MMA, beyond the most base level of 2 people beating the shit out of eachother, is wayyyyyyyyyyy too complicated for those 2 particular genres of white folk.
Cyrrex
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Reply #43 on: July 30, 2008, 06:26:12 AM


Quote
Urijah Faber has been into my restaurant several times and he's always super cool and laid back; NOT white trash at all.  The first time I met him, he gave me his card and said he was opening an MMA gym.  I had no idea who he was at the time.

That's awesome.  He's a pretty amazing fighter.  Just think how much ass you'd be able to kick if you'd have joined his gym back then.

Edit: to fix ugly quote
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 06:24:20 AM by Cyrrex »

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
HAMMER FRENZY
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Reply #44 on: July 30, 2008, 07:13:38 AM

Yeah, I am really, really, really into mma.

Anyway, the fighters I like to see fight in UCF are

Anderson Silva
Forest Griffin (The kid is getting good. Cred where credit is due.)
Kenny Florian
BJ Penn
Keith Jardine
Ivan Saleverry
Dean Lister (I fucking love this guy, his ground game is brutal)
Karo Parysian
Hermes Franco (Kid is sneaky and smart as shit. Ground game from fucking hell.)


Anyway, I loves me some MMA

Anyone see that WEC Jens Pulver/Urijah Faber fight. Pretty decent fight. Pulver lost by decision but it was interesting. That Faber kid needs to get out of WEC and try the light weight in UCF. Super talented.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #45 on: July 30, 2008, 07:26:13 AM

Yeah, I saw the Faber/Pulver fight.  What was most interesting about it was that Faber very definitely beat Jens at his own game.  You kinda knew Faber was going to win, but likely in a different fashion.

He'd do well in the UFC, probably even be a champion, but he'd certainly face stiffer competition.  I have no idea what would happen in a Faber vs. Penn fight, but I'd sure love to see it.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Arnold
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Reply #46 on: July 31, 2008, 02:47:57 AM

Yeah, I am really, really, really into mma.

Anyway, the fighters I like to see fight in UCF are

Anderson Silva
Forest Griffin (The kid is getting good. Cred where credit is due.)
Kenny Florian
BJ Penn
Keith Jardine
Ivan Saleverry
Dean Lister (I fucking love this guy, his ground game is brutal)
Karo Parysian
Hermes Franco (Kid is sneaky and smart as shit. Ground game from fucking hell.)


Anyway, I loves me some MMA

Anyone see that WEC Jens Pulver/Urijah Faber fight. Pretty decent fight. Pulver lost by decision but it was interesting. That Faber kid needs to get out of WEC and try the light weight in UCF. Super talented.

He'd have to go up in weight to fight in the UFC.  WEC is owned by UFC and Urijah is the face of WEC.  He's not going anywhere.
Arnold
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Reply #47 on: July 31, 2008, 02:49:14 AM



Urijah Faber has been into my restaurant several times and he's always super cool and laid back; NOT white trash at all.  The first time I met him, he gave me his card and said he was opening an MMA gym.  I had no idea who he was at the time.

That's awesome.  He's a pretty amazing fighter.  Just think how much ass you'd be able to kick if you'd have joined his gym back then.


[/quote]

It wasn't even that long ago.  Like 1.5 years.  He tried to get me to join and I gave him the "I'm too old" excuse.
Hoax
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Reply #48 on: July 31, 2008, 08:45:11 AM

I'd put top four at:

Silva
Henderson
Franklin
Okami

And then its a scrum of Marquart, Cote, Kampmann (if he isn't injured) or winner of Bisping/Leben.  Almeida needs a couple matches, and Leites is kind of meh to me after the Marquart fight.  I think Henderson and Franklin could beat pretty much anyone else in the division,  but would get killed by Silva (again).

You bring up some good points, but I can't believe you mention Okami.  That fight scheduled was because of the DQ loss Silva had.  I have to hunt down a video of that fight but I doubt he was losing.  Franklin has talent to beat most others but he will never ever beat Silva.  Neither will Cote.  But Cote has a bit more chance, for one he's not terrified of Silva (yet) and he is tough and mean enough to be getting his ass kicked and still land something nasty.  Henderson is a good call, if he still has it in him, tbh I wasn't immpressed with either of his title fights.  It never looked to me like he was putting it all out there, more like he was fighting a good pro fight but sort of on autopilot.  Marquart is good.  Really good.  Leben is a fucking joke.  Chris Leben?  Kidding me?  Fuck that guy.

I'm so stoked to see the Huerta v Florian fight, the August 9th PPV has been bought in my mind since I heard that fight announced.

Here are my favorite fighters:
135
Miguel Torres

145
Urijah Faber
Yoshiro Maeda

155
Roger Huerta
BJ Penn

170
Kim Dong Hyun
Karo Parisyan
Diego Sanchez
Georges St-Pierre
Yoshida Yoshiyuki

185
Anderson Silva

205
Forrest Griffin
Matt Hamill
Quinton Jackson
Lyoto Machida
Goran Reljic
Mauricio Rua
Thiago Silva

Heavyweight:
Andrei Arlovski
Fedor

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Cyrrex
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Reply #49 on: July 31, 2008, 08:56:19 AM

If memory serves...isn't Okami the guy that Silva knocked-the-fuck-out while on his back and delivering a brutal upkick?  At the time they interpreted it as a violation of the rule for kicking someone in the head while the fighter is on his back - only they didn't expect it to happen in reverse - and subsequently DQed Silva?  Am I thinking of another fight?

Arlovski vs Fedor coming up, so that'll be interesting.  My money's on Fedor, but anything can happen in MMA.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Johny Cee
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Reply #50 on: July 31, 2008, 10:19:57 AM

Okami is 6-1 in the UFC,  with his one loss a close decision to Rich Franklin.  He's the guy that bullied Mike Swick around the cage, and sent Swick down to welterweight.  He's also ranked in the top 10 middleweights by quite a few websites.  The biggest knock against him I can think of is that he's boring, often going to decisions.

I think the Silva DQ came because Okami had a knee down when Silva upkicked him for the KO.
Cyrrex
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Reply #51 on: July 31, 2008, 11:32:30 AM

I think the Silva DQ came because Okami had a knee down when Silva upkicked him for the KO.

Ah yes, that makes more sense.  Knew it was something like that.  Still bullshit though, because Silva was very much on his back, and Okami was very much looming over him.  Not only should they not have DQed him (based on my imaginery rulebook of fairness), but he should have gotten a bonus for such an awesome KO.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #52 on: August 04, 2008, 01:27:37 PM

So, UFC 87 coming up, and three interesting matches:

GSP vs. Jon Fitch - Georgie boy really should tear him up.  I can't see him giving another title defense let-down.  You never can tell though.

Brock Lesnar vs. Heath Herring - I think Lesnar is going to have his coming out party here.  I've never seen Herring in action, however, which could explain my lack of confidence in him.

Florian vs. Huerta - gonna have to go with El Matador (Huerta), but I can easily see it going the other way.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Margalis
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Reply #53 on: August 04, 2008, 03:05:24 PM

Herring is a brawler. He got beat badly by a dude with some collegiate wrestling skills who took him down over and over again. If they stay standing he has a chance but if Brock is smart he should win easily.

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Johny Cee
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Reply #54 on: August 04, 2008, 03:36:08 PM

GSP v. Fitch -- GSP is the pretty clear favorite.  Fitch has a string of good wins,  but none of them have been particularly impressive.  GSP has been dominating top guys for the last couple years, outside of the Serra KO.

Herring v. Lesner -- Herring is inconsistent.  Style-wise,  this looks like a gimme for Lesner who should take Heath down and pound him into jelly.

Huerta v. Florian --  Number one contender match for lightweight, basically.  Should be an amazing fight.

I glanced through the undercard and nothing else particularly jumps out as a great fight.



If you missed it,  WEC had a show last night on Versus.  Not bad mostly,  though alot of quick or one sided fights.  The final fight of the night was Carlos Condit vs. Hiromitsu Miura and was fan-fucking-tastic.

Condit is a muay thai/bjj guy, Miura a boxer/judoka.  Good back and forth stand up with some absolutely amazing judo throws.  Great sweeps and scrambles on the ground,  and it went to the end of the fourth.   
Hoax
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Reply #55 on: August 04, 2008, 08:40:27 PM

If it wasn't for the Kenflo v Huerta fight I wouldn't pay for this ppv, but Huerta is one of my absolute favs and watching Jon Fitch get smacked will be nice too.  If Lesner or Herring can't end that fight and it goes a full 15min I'll be pretty goddamn pissed.  Lesner is big enough that I expect his ground and pound to end fights quickly.

The WEC shit was great, none of the fights were quality though several were enjoyable until the finale, then it was a really really good fight as Cee says.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Murgos
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Reply #56 on: August 05, 2008, 12:52:55 PM

Lesner's last fight he was actually quite dominant in until he made a stupid mistake and got pwn'd, and it was against a much better fighter.

He does have to win this one in a convincing fashion though if anyone is going to take him seriously.  Sure he's big and he's got legit collegiate wrestling chops but there are guys out on the MMA circuit with Olympic medals who are at best 2nd tier.

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stray
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Reply #57 on: August 06, 2008, 12:49:26 AM

I want Lesnar to just go away. He's an even bigger dork than Tito Ortiz.
WindupAtheist
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Reply #58 on: August 15, 2008, 11:42:31 PM

So I was watching some MMA on Showtime tonight and there's ex-boxer Jeremy Williams training a guy.  Apparently he's fighting MMA himself these days and is 5-0.  Williams was decent as a boxer, fast, good power, but wasn't very big for a heavyweight and didn't take a punch very well.  I'm kinda curious what he can do.  Usually when a pro boxer ends up in MMA he's some grossly over-the-hill slob who hasn't bothered to crosstrain at all and ends up getting choked silly.  (See old Ray Mercer getting choked out by fucking Kimbo of all people.)  I liked Williams when he was boxing, would be fun to see if he can cut it.

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Azazel
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Reply #59 on: August 16, 2008, 11:19:36 PM

I'm pretty into MMA as well, but I've been avoiding this thread since I have a ..rather large backlog of UFC cards to get around to watching, and I've been trying to avoid seeing spilers, like the one I just saw about Brock getting a loss. I did watch the Affliction event though, and damn, Fedor.

I'm looking forward to seeing him vs Arlovski later in the year, but also kinda not, since I like Arlovski and expect he will be crushed by Fedor. Ditto Randy.


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Hoax
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Reply #60 on: August 17, 2008, 02:12:10 AM

That Huerta fight, pissed me off so fucking much.  The UFC really needs to figure out some kind of scoring system that doesn't suck total cock and lead to "tactical wins" like that one.  Where one guy realizes that he has a good chance at losing to competition that is as good as him so he just sits back and forces the whole fight to be on his terms.  I've seen Koshcheck, Zwick and now Ken (I end fights at 155!!!  awesome, for real  fuckwad) Flo do it.  It has pissed me the fuck off each and every time.

I know its a bitch of a sport to score, but this 10-must isn't working for shit.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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stray
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Reply #61 on: August 17, 2008, 04:01:54 AM

Not sure I understand. Are you blaming him for not participating in a slugfest with Roger? Not only does he "have a good chance" of losing at that, but he has a good chance of just getting his ass straight up kicked. He admitted it afterwards too. Finding a way of changing the nature of the fight is the only option there.

But hell, tactical wins is what Gracie did for years. And newer fighters like Machida are the shit imo. Or to take it further in the past, Ali wouldn't be the "greatest" if he decided to just trade punches with people. That wasn't his thing. Knocking people out wasn't what made him great. Frustrating them (elusiveness) and wearing them down (rope-a-dope) was.
WindupAtheist
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Reply #62 on: August 17, 2008, 04:53:26 AM

Some guys are skilled technicians, and some guys are just spoilers.  Corey Spinks has been a successful boxer, but he's just excruciatingly boring to watch.  There's not much you can do, except ask your judges to put more emphasis on aggression.  I do question how the ten-point-must system works in MMA, since they don't score knockdowns the way they do in boxing.

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Hoax
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Reply #63 on: August 17, 2008, 06:07:52 AM

Not sure I understand. Are you blaming him for not participating in a slugfest with Roger? Not only does he "have a good chance" of losing at that, but he has a good chance of just getting his ass straight up kicked. He admitted it afterwards too. Finding a way of changing the nature of the fight is the only option there.

But hell, tactical wins is what Gracie did for years. And newer fighters like Machida are the shit imo. Or to take it further in the past, Ali wouldn't be the "greatest" if he decided to just trade punches with people. That wasn't his thing. Knocking people out wasn't what made him great. Frustrating them (elusiveness) and wearing them down (rope-a-dope) was.

You realize this falls apart in MMA where there is only 15 minutes of fight?  What if Huerta refuses to come forward and engage either?  Now we have no fight?  Machida's style is something that should be embraced but there needs to be a much greater score advantage if you are the aggressor.  A close round where one guy initiated all the action should go to that guy.  Because if your applauding what KenFlo did, thats just stupid.  So he couldn't beat Huerta except via the judges?  Oh yeah, lets reward that type of win...  Machida does damage, but more importantly takes none, KenFlo did JUST BARELY more damage, with a few more takedowns he earned by hanging back and forcing Heurta to just come at him.  It was hardly the type of win that should earn a guy a title fight.  I hope ufc gives him what he deserves, not a title shot.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
stray
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Reply #64 on: August 17, 2008, 09:27:35 AM

I think it's unfair to say that Florian was so passive that Huerta could have just not engaged himself. He initiated enough times to say that he was actually in the fight at least. Especially in the second half. He moved in close enough where Roger had quite a few chances to get his hands on him too -- he even did a lot of risky/stupid shit, like trying to roundhouse Huerta a few times -- but whenever Huerta tried to get a grip, Ken simply beat him on skill in that respect. He deserves some credit for getting out every time. It isn't easy.

I mention Machida because a lot of people say the same thing about him (but not you apparently) -- he might make it look easy and lazy, but it's very technical. I'll grant you though that KenFlo isn't nearly as cool. Machida's also big -- when he's had his fun, he's capable of enough impact to go in for the kill eventually. He might win by decision a lot too, but usually kicks up the drama towards the end.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 09:33:49 AM by Stray »
WindupAtheist
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Reply #65 on: August 19, 2008, 04:54:22 AM

So apparently Williams racked up a 5-0 record against the usual newbie-fodder stiffs between December and March, but hasn't fought since.  Finding out why via Google is difficult, since some OTHER fighter also named Jeremy Williams apparently killed himself last year.  At 36 years old he can't afford to waste time if he plans to get anywhere with it.

Here's his most recent fight.  I don't know how far he could potentially go, really.  He was a decent boxer, but never really a contender, and was on his way down anyway.  On one hand, his biggest weakness was always a shaky chin, which isn't likely to be as much of a factor here since everyone will be trying to fight him on the ground and most MMA guys punch like girls anyway.  On the other hand, he's presumably a pretty raw newb when it comes to the ground, though he does seem to be striving to learn.

I dunno, I was just tickled to see the guy still around.  Always seemed like a likable dude.

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Johny Cee
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Reply #66 on: August 19, 2008, 08:11:24 PM

I think it's unfair to say that Florian was so passive that Huerta could have just not engaged himself. He initiated enough times to say that he was actually in the fight at least. Especially in the second half. He moved in close enough where Roger had quite a few chances to get his hands on him too -- he even did a lot of risky/stupid shit, like trying to roundhouse Huerta a few times -- but whenever Huerta tried to get a grip, Ken simply beat him on skill in that respect. He deserves some credit for getting out every time. It isn't easy.

I mention Machida because a lot of people say the same thing about him (but not you apparently) -- he might make it look easy and lazy, but it's very technical. I'll grant you though that KenFlo isn't nearly as cool. Machida's also big -- when he's had his fun, he's capable of enough impact to go in for the kill eventually. He might win by decision a lot too, but usually kicks up the drama towards the end.

Florian was pretty fucking passive.  He obviously wanted to outpoint Huerta for the win, which is fine, but more likely than not he cost himself a title shot.  If you can't go in and come up with a gameplan to dominate Roger Huerta,  what the hell are you going to do to BJ Penn?

It was especially disappointing considering the other folks in the division.  Tyson Griffin and Frankie Edgar are close to being ready for a title shot,  and I don't think either of those guys has ever had a boring fight.

Machida's style is better,  but it's still as exciting as watching paint dry.  I put it in the same category as the "clinch against the cage" people and the lay and prayers.  I even enjoy a good show of wrestling top control,  but seriously...  you need to do something with it.

It takes some technique, sure.  But then it takes technique to thoroughly hold down a guy on his back so that he can't scramble or escape.  It still is not interesting to watch.

Some kind of stalling/aggression ruling is going to have to be made if you don't want every guy to go out there for the win by points, rather than a good and entertaining fight. 

Please don't interpret this as me saying two guys should go out and throw haymakers until one crumbles.  No.  Guys SHOULD take chances and look to end things though,  or at least just push the pace.  The best example of that I can think of is Clay Guida:  win or lose,  that guy puts on a show.

A contest to see who can be the most patient counterpuncher?  No.
stray
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Reply #67 on: August 20, 2008, 02:09:56 AM

BJ Penn's a completely different beast than Huerta. He's not an aggressive brawler either. I mean, Florian's tactics were for that Huerta fight specifically. Most of the time, he's a straight up kickboxer on his feet. He's also a bjj student like Penn.

Anyways, I understand your concern for entertainment, but that isn't MMA's priority. It's just supposed to be a test of martial arts skills. Always was. And technically, counter-attacking would be the basis of all of it. It's why martial arts even exist and are invented in the first place.

Also, people always used to bitch about grapplers and shooters for not being entertaining too, but they ended up shaping the sport to what it's become.

[edit] More than likely, Penn would keep going for the takedown against a guy like Florian. It'd be the complete opposite as this situation. The time I've seen BJ meet a strong Muay Thai fighter, he tried to take it on the floor as quick as possible.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 02:31:12 AM by Stray »
Cyrrex
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Reply #68 on: August 20, 2008, 08:36:47 AM

BJ Penn's a completely different beast than Huerta. He's not an aggressive brawler either. I mean, Florian's tactics were for that Huerta fight specifically. Most of the time, he's a straight up kickboxer on his feet. He's also a bjj student like Penn.

Anyways, I understand your concern for entertainment, but that isn't MMA's priority. It's just supposed to be a test of martial arts skills. Always was. And technically, counter-attacking would be the basis of all of it. It's why martial arts even exist and are invented in the first place.

Also, people always used to bitch about grapplers and shooters for not being entertaining too, but they ended up shaping the sport to what it's become.

[edit] More than likely, Penn would keep going for the takedown against a guy like Florian. It'd be the complete opposite as this situation. The time I've seen BJ meet a strong Muay Thai fighter, he tried to take it on the floor as quick as possible.

In principle I agree, but I don't think Dana White sees it that way.  Entertainment first for the UFC.  He loves guys like Wanderlei Silva who, while he is technically very capable, will always prefer to put on a good show.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
stray
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Reply #69 on: August 20, 2008, 09:21:04 AM

I can't blame him for liking Wanderlei. I like him too. Funny thing is, KenFlo fights like a mini-version of him usually. They're strong in both of the same skillsets -- Muay Thai and BJJ. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Kenny learned his whole schtick from Silva. He can be explosive, tends to like leading off with a muay thai grip and kneeing a lot, then after that, getting a guy on the ground. It's the same thing Wanderlei does. One difference is that Kenny does more high kicks if he's on his feet long enough -- but entertainment wise, that would actually qualify him as being more flashy.


If you're comparing him to Machida though, I understand. Then again, I was reading an article the other day where some writer was suspecting that the UFC was biased towards Machida, and totally in love with him.

So that's kinda ironic. There's all kinds of criticism coming from both sides.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 09:24:26 AM by Stray »
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