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Johny Cee
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Reply #105 on: August 27, 2008, 07:24:44 PM

Quote
I dunno, you've got that Italian and Marcus Davis, both of them had boxing careers to some degree.  There are others.  They've never looked amazing in the ring.

Any boxer who'll take the pay cut MMA represents is probably terrible.  I like Jeremy Williams, but after being crushed by Sam Peter he was basically done as any sort of contender.

Nowadays, I think you overestimate what a boxer gets paid. Does anyone pay for/give a fuck about boxing anymore? Top tier guys might get paid, but so do their MMA counterparts (who seem to do ok with sponserships/TV shows, etc).

The boxer's biggest problem in an MMA fight is how easily good wrestlers can just put them on their ass and G and P them. Only the very best guys, such as Chuck Liddell, have the ability to spawl and force a fight to his feet. He isn't exactly a boxer, just a brutal counterpuncher. If you take the best boxer in the world, teach him how to really spawl and not instantly get wrecked in the BJJ game, then maybe you have a chance.

Honestly,  I think the lower/middle tier MMA guys are doing as well or better than boxers at the same level.  The stars are making more money, sure, but most of the name MMA guys are still making a couple million a year.  It's difficult to check, since the UFC/Zuffa likes to structure payments as various kinds of "signing" or "locker room" bonuses rather than purse money.

Yah, that doesn't compare to Oscar de la Hoya making $20 million his last fight, but....
Cyrrex
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Reply #106 on: August 28, 2008, 05:43:11 AM

It's only a matter of time.  Boxing seems to be on a major downward spiral.  Fewer and fewer people will pay to see boxing, and there will be fewer stars worth watching.  In my opinion.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Nightshade
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Reply #107 on: August 28, 2008, 07:00:33 AM

It's only a matter of time.  Boxing seems to be on a major downward spiral.  Fewer and fewer people will pay to see boxing, and there will be fewer stars worth watching.  In my opinion.

Hey!  I tend to agree there, but then again ... Boxing has more of a historical significance, which I believe is the only reason why it still exists in comparison to shows like IFL and UFC.  As stupid as it sounds people tend to believe boxing is NOT a "horrible inhumane blood sport" like MMA supposedly is, I think its just because us fighters have a dirty habit of beating the crap out of our opponents until submission or TKO  awesome, for real
WindupAtheist
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Reply #108 on: August 31, 2008, 09:39:57 PM

The guys De La Hoya beats the shit out of in his easy fights make as much or more money than the "huge salaries" Affliction was described as paying a couple pages ago.  There are countless Mexican boxers no one here has ever heard of who do six figures per fight.  As to the future of the sport, let's just say I've looked beyond the "bored white middle-class American" demographic and I'm not worried.  It's booming in large parts of Europe, and it has a lock on the ever-growing Latino market.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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Johny Cee
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Reply #109 on: September 01, 2008, 04:56:20 PM

It's only a matter of time.  Boxing seems to be on a major downward spiral.  Fewer and fewer people will pay to see boxing, and there will be fewer stars worth watching.  In my opinion.

Hey!  I tend to agree there, but then again ... Boxing has more of a historical significance, which I believe is the only reason why it still exists in comparison to shows like IFL and UFC.  As stupid as it sounds people tend to believe boxing is NOT a "horrible inhumane blood sport" like MMA supposedly is, I think its just because us fighters have a dirty habit of beating the crap out of our opponents until submission or TKO  awesome, for real

Umm.  The IFL is going/has gone belly up.  The UFC and Affliction have been cherry picking the best fighters,  and I think the UFC is in negotiations to buy the remaining assets of the IFL.
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Reply #110 on: September 01, 2008, 05:59:43 PM

The guys De La Hoya beats the shit out of in his easy fights make as much or more money than the "huge salaries" Affliction was described as paying a couple pages ago.  There are countless Mexican boxers no one here has ever heard of who do six figures per fight.  As to the future of the sport, let's just say I've looked beyond the "bored white middle-class American" demographic and I'm not worried.  It's booming in large parts of Europe, and it has a lock on the ever-growing Latino market.

Come on WUA, claiming countless boxers noone has ever heard of making 6 digits a fight is garbage. How can we prove it? How can we disprove it? We just have to take your word as gold, which obviously over time I have refused to do :)

It's not like boxing is a new thing in Europe. But, meh, I'll give you the latino thing. It seems to be the only combat sport they have a chance in. Boxing is shit. Has been shit for years. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of....it.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
WindupAtheist
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Reply #111 on: September 01, 2008, 11:55:46 PM

It's not like purse bids and splits are kept secret in most cases.  Usually it turns up in a press release somewhere.

Yori Boy Campas made a million fighting De La Hoya.
Joel Casamayor made 900k fighting Acelino Freitas.
Jose Luis Castillo made 1.2 million fighting Diego Corrales.
Jesus Chavez made 600k fighting Eric Morales.
Danny Williams made 300k getting punched out by Vitali Klitschko.
Javier Castillejo made a million fighting Fernando Vargas.
Zab Judah made 400k against Rafael Paneda
Leonardo Dorin made 500k fighting Arturo Gatti.
Julius Francis made 650k getting wrecked by Tyson.

Six figures is nice money in boxing, but it's the nice money you make as a contender fighting another ranked guy, or a tune-up opponent for an elite guy.  A lot of it depends on weight class and marketability, but guys on fighting on TV in marquee divisions are almost always making a good paycheck.

As for Europe, it's doing real well in Germany and thereabouts, and booming in Eastern Europe.  The UK seems to have a fair amount of stuff going on for it's size as well.  Remember, boxing isn't new there, but being able to compete on the world-class level as something besides "America's bitch" most of the time sort of is, historically speaking.  And the pro game is effectively new in a bunch of countries that were all behind the iron curtain before.

And Asia.  There are guys from South Korea and Thailand and so forth defending world titles and making money fighting in Asia who you'll simply never hear of, because they have no need to fight over here and nobody here cares about them.  Next to the Kronk in Detroit, the gym to produce the most champion boxers is Japanese.  At least last I heard.

EDIT:  Also, I hate to sound like a dick, but I wonder how popular MMA would be with the "dude bro" crowd if it were all black guys and Mexicans year after year.  It's the only combat sport where an American white guy isn't an automatic speedbump.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 12:01:27 AM by WindupAtheist »

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Slayerik
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Reply #112 on: September 02, 2008, 08:57:50 AM


Anyways, I'll concede the whole boxers make six figures thing even as punching bags.

I won't concede the 'boxing is shit compared to MMA' - but it is just a matter of opinion. I can't even watch boxing anymore, it is a snorefest. Some MMA fights can be as well, but overall there is so much more skill involved in MMA and the variety of endings makes it better TV.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Cyrrex
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Reply #113 on: September 02, 2008, 09:03:38 AM

Another good thing about MMA is that the outcome really is more...In Doubt...than boxing.  Sure, upsets happen in boxing - but they are far more common in MMA.  Even a great MMA fighter will likely have several losses on his record.  And the middle of the pack are more likely to put on a good show (in terms of excitement value) than their boxing counterparts.  In my opinion.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Johny Cee
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Reply #114 on: September 02, 2008, 11:03:50 AM

EDIT:  Also, I hate to sound like a dick, but I wonder how popular MMA would be with the "dude bro" crowd if it were all black guys and Mexicans year after year.  It's the only combat sport where an American white guy isn't an automatic speedbump.

Have you actually looked at the ethnicity of MMA fighters?  It's very, very diverse.

Lots of Brazilians, Japanese, Canadians, Europeans (East and West), Africa, to go with a decent proportion of Americans.  Plenty of Hispanics of various backgrounds as well. 

African-Americans seem to be the only ethnic group that is seriously underrepresented.  There are quite a few black athletes from other countries, though (Kongo is French, Anderson Silva is Brazilian, Soukoudjo is from Cameroon, Lousieu is French-Canadian, etc.)

Of the current UFC champs:

- One Hawaiian:  Wildly popular.
- One French-Canadian: Wildly popular
- One white American: Wildly popular
- Two Brazilians:  Anderson Silva is wildly popular,  Nog is very popular with the "hardcore" crowd from Pride.

Tito Ortiz,  who was the face of the UFC for a long time, is half-Mexican.


I won't argue that having very marketable white Americans with a middle class background wasn't a big help.  The big draw, though, is the diversity.

I can watch a Brazilian submission guy fight a French-Canadian brawler?  And then,  some dude from the Czech Republic will fight some guy from France?  The red neck farmboy will then fight some muay thai guy from Brazil?  Japanese judoka against Mexican boxer-grappler?  With a side of the crazy Armenians?

Yes please.
Cyrrex
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Reply #115 on: September 02, 2008, 11:10:23 AM

Amen.

Viewing demographics, on the other hand, do tend to depend quite a bit on the "dude/bro" segment.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Johny Cee
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Reply #116 on: September 02, 2008, 11:18:40 AM

Also,  UFC 88 this weekend:

Main Card Bouts:

[21-5-0] Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans [11-0-1]
[23-3-0] Rich Franklin vs. Matt Hamill [4-1-0]
[22-7-0] Dan Henderson vs. Rousimar Palhares [8-1-0]
[16-2-0] Martin Kampmann vs. Nate Marquardt [26-8-2]
[18-5-0] Karo Parisyan vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida [10-2-0]


Preliminary Bouts:

[11-2-0] Mike Patt vs. Tim Boetsch [7-2-0]
[14-8-0] Ryo Chonan vs. Roan Carneiro [12-7-0]
[10-0-1] Dong Hyun-Kim vs. Matt Brown [7-6-0]
[13-2-0] Thiago Tavares vs. Kurt Pellegrino [15-4-0]
[20-10-0] Jason MacDonald vs. Jason Lambert [23-8-0]



The Main Card is full of win.  

- Liddell/Evans is likely for the next title shot at LHW.  Liddell should bury Evans,  since Liddell's style seems to be amazing versus wrestlers (see Tito x2, Randy x 2, Babalu x2, etc.).  

- Franklin vs. Hammill at LHW will be interesting.  Hammill seems to be up-and-coming at LHW (coming off the controversial loss to Bisping and destruction of Boetsch),  and is obviously going to be pushed because he's a classy guy who happens to be deaf.  Franklin is moving up to LHW after getting destroyed by Silva twice.  Franklin probably takes this.

- Henderson vs. Palhares is an interesting matchup.  Henderson is coming off of two losses from the title unification fights with A. Silva and Rampage.  Palhares is supposedly the next big thing at MW.  With a win, Palhares could be challenging for the MW belt some time next year.

- Kampman vs. Marquardt.  Dutch kickboxer versus all around good fighter?  Yes.  Should be a great fight.  Both are top tier MW fighters.

- Karo vs. Yoshida.  Karo was lined up for a title shot before getting destroyed by Thiago Alves.  He's a solid top 10 WW.  Yoshida I know nothing about,  but supposedly comes highly regarded.


Some decent prelim fights as well.

The Boetch fight should be entertaining.  The dude is 1-1, but basically comes out in a very high pace brawling style.   Had Hammill in trouble in their fight in the first round before gassing.

The fight before that,  he had the sweetest hip toss ever on David Heath.
Cyrrex
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Reply #117 on: September 02, 2008, 11:22:04 AM

I'm secretly hoping that Evans clobbers Chuck.  I'm getting a little tired of Chuck, to be honest, and I think he's ripe for it...seems to be losing some speed or something.  More than anything, it would be a good shakeup.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
WindupAtheist
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Reply #118 on: September 02, 2008, 12:30:35 PM

If I were running one of these MMA leagues, I think I'd focus signfigant resources on running lots of low-budget shows at the local level.  Get people out to the fights, broaden the interest, and give young fighters places to hone their craft for a while.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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Slayerik
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Reply #119 on: September 02, 2008, 01:34:38 PM

If I were running one of these MMA leagues, I think I'd focus signfigant resources on running lots of low-budget shows at the local level.  Get people out to the fights, broaden the interest, and give young fighters places to hone their craft for a while.

There seems to be no shortage of MMA events here in Michigan. Between King of the Cage stuff and a couple others that I am forgetting (one my friend fought in) - you can get some experience at a lower level. I don't think these are 'UFC' Farm Leagues' though, and you are right - they would be smart to break even running these...as they could make it back in PPV sales easily if you get more people hooked.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
WindupAtheist
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Reply #120 on: September 02, 2008, 04:11:24 PM

In the context of the sport as a whole, local-level promotions cropping up independent of the "major leagues" is about the best thing that can happen.  Part of the reason I don't sweat the "Boxing is dooooomed" noise (which has been going around since long before MMA was a factor) is that it's just so damn widespread.  There are kids in Mexico turning pro at 14 and 15 years old, fighting on local cards held in bullfight arenas.  Half the hispanic names on that list I posted came up that way.  There are guys training and fighting on every inhabited continent, in contests you'll never ever hear of unless you're ludicrously hardcore.

Anything that has it taking root outside of the big PPV leagues is good.  Hell, I think they need an organized amateur program with protective gear and softer rules.  Get people participating without worrying about getting seriously mauled their first time out of the gate.  It may not be something that draws major interest, but in the long-term it would provide a larger pool of better-schooled talent to draw upon.

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Hoax
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Reply #121 on: September 02, 2008, 08:14:48 PM

My picks, not 100% I'm ordering this, but if I do its mostly for the Karo v Yoshida fight, that should be awesome no matter what unless Karo is dominating and gasses badly or someone gets wtf ko'd in the first round.

Main Card Bouts:

[21-5-0] Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans [11-0-1]  -- Liddell.
Evans is better in a bunch of ways and is the future but Liddell is still the 2nd best counter puncher in UFC (I give the nod to Rampage)

[23-3-0] Rich Franklin vs. Matt Hamill [4-1-0] -- Franklin
Unless Hamill has improved his striking and his shots for takedown greatly Franklin should dominate this fight, which is too bad, I really do like Hamill but I don't think he's mean enough to be a great fighter.  He didn't lose that fight w/ Bisping but he did.  He should have finished him but he got a bit tired and sort of let up.

[22-7-0] Dan Henderson vs. Rousimar Palhares [8-1-0] -- n/a
Never seen Palhares fight, I never watched much Pride but I'd like it if Henderson would stop making me pay to watch him fight boring fights, he's pretty much looked like he's just there for a check imo.

[16-2-0] Martin Kampmann vs. Nate Marquardt [26-8-2] -- Marquardt
I love Kampmann, in fact I like the dutch kickboxer style in general and this is an AWESOME AWESOME match up, but Marquardt is just a step above.

[18-5-0] Karo Parisyan vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida [10-2-0] -- Parisyan
This fight will be fun, I love watching both these guys, but it really just comes down to which Karo shows up.  The loss to Alves is the only time he looked like he really wanted to win and didn't.  Alves is a monster.

Preliminary Bouts:
[11-2-0] Mike Patt vs. Tim Boetsch [7-2-0] -- n/a
Never seen either of them fight that I can think of.

[14-8-0] Ryo Chonan vs. Roan Carneiro [12-7-0] -- Carneiro
Chonan looks like another asian punching bag, this other guy's record sucks but I bet he can get a win.

[10-0-1] Dong Hyun-Kim vs. Matt Brown [7-6-0] -- Hyun-Kim
Dong Hyun-Kim was impressive in his debut, I love the idea of Asians that dont suck, I'm really really praying they put this fight on the ppv.  Btw has anyone ever managed to watch a unaired fight FOR FREE on ufc.com?  They always say you can but its never available when I try.

[13-2-0] Thiago Tavares vs. Kurt Pellegrino [15-4-0] -- Pellegrino
This is a tough one, I dont think very highly of either of these guys.  Tavares is way more skilled but doesn't have any of the intangibles from the fights I've seen, I bet Pellegrino outworks him for the win if he doesn't just get caught.

[20-10-0] Jason MacDonald vs. Jason Lambert [23-8-0] -- Lambert
The Punisher hits too hard for MacDonald to use the only tactic he has and just absorb punishment on his way in. 

« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 08:17:37 PM by Hoax »

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WindupAtheist
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Reply #122 on: September 02, 2008, 08:18:20 PM

[23-3-0] Rich Franklin vs. Matt Hamill [4-1-0]
[22-7-0] Dan Henderson vs. Rousimar Palhares [8-1-0]

Those seem like mismatches on paper due to one guy being massively more experienced.  What's the background on the guys with thinner records?

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Slayerik
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Reply #123 on: September 02, 2008, 08:35:49 PM

[23-3-0] Rich Franklin vs. Matt Hamill [4-1-0]
[22-7-0] Dan Henderson vs. Rousimar Palhares [8-1-0]

Those seem like mismatches on paper due to one guy being massively more experienced.  What's the background on the guys with thinner records?

Usually they are guys coming from "The Ultimate Fighter" show :) Or just real deal talent, or guys that always sparred and trained with the best that decided it's time to hit the cage.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Johny Cee
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Reply #124 on: September 02, 2008, 10:15:07 PM

[23-3-0] Rich Franklin vs. Matt Hamill [4-1-0]
[22-7-0] Dan Henderson vs. Rousimar Palhares [8-1-0]

Those seem like mismatches on paper due to one guy being massively more experienced.  What's the background on the guys with thinner records?

1.  Hamill is from TUF.  He's a pretty well decorated wrestler (3 time Div III champ, some after college stuff like the Deaflympics).  His ideal weightclass is Light Heavyweight (205 lbs.)  He's wrecked a few no names,  and probably should have won the Bisping fight.

Rich Franklin is the former Middlewieght (185 lbs.) champ.  He was stuck in the position that he could probably beat everyone in the division but Anderson Silva,  who has completely wrecked him twice already.

Rich is the much better striker, but wasn't really setting the world on fire at LHW before he moved down to MW for a run at the title.  Hamill is the better wrestler, and will probably have a pretty good weight advantage.

This may be a feeder fight for Rich to set up a matchup with a Name LHW (Liddell, Wanderlai Silva, etc.) as a cash grab.  On the other hand,  a win for Hamill will push him as a crowd and marketing favorite and might push him into the title picture.  I'm SURE the UFC wants to keep him around just for the favorable PR of having a successful deaf athlete.

2. Henderson is the former Pride MW and LHW champs,  a wrestler and a former Olympian.  He's a probably top 3 in the UFC at MW,  and he's a guy that has been ranked in the top 10 in MW and LHW.

Palhares I don't know much about, besides the fact that he and Demian Maia have a lot of "next big thing" buzz at MW.  A Brazilian,  not sure what kind of out of MMA credentials he has.  He does train with Brazilian Top Team, which is one of the top camps out there.

He's got a win versus Salavery,  who is a decent fighter.  Or at least used to be.  Looks like he might be washed up.


Really,  there isn't alot of mismatches in the UFC at least on the Main Cards.  Things will lean one way or the other,  but there is still a decent chance of guys pulling something out.  The UFC likes to recognize a guy with talent and throw him up to the upper tier guys as soon as possible.

Edit to summarize

To summarize:

Oftentimes fighters who excelled outside MMA in a related discipline get pushed hard when they move to MMA.  They aren't made to "earn" their way in by demolishing a bunch of cans.

- National champion or All-American wrestlers
- Mundial/world champion BJJ guys
- Guys with a very good boxing, muay thai, or other background
- Olympians or Olympic caliber judo or wrestling guys


« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 09:13:11 AM by Johny Cee »
Johny Cee
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Reply #125 on: September 03, 2008, 09:19:22 AM

[14-8-0] Ryo Chonan vs. Roan Carneiro [12-7-0] -- Carneiro
Chonan looks like another asian punching bag, this other guy's record sucks but I bet he can get a win.

Oh, forgot to mention:

Chonan is the last guy to beat Anderson Silva (not counting the DQ in the Okami fight).  It came via a Flying Heal Hook as a huge desperation move, after Silva was working him.  It also came in a much lighter weight class than Silva fights in now.
WindupAtheist
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Reply #126 on: September 03, 2008, 09:43:30 AM

Oftentimes fighters who excelled outside MMA in a related discipline get pushed hard when they move to MMA.  They aren't made to "earn" their way in by demolishing a bunch of cans.

I've been watching MMA off-and-on ever since UFC2 a million years ago, but I've never followed it hardcore, or learned much about how they do business.  I take it the UFC signs these guys to contracts, and then acts as both promoter and manager?  How much input does the fighter and his team have into the fights they get?

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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Johny Cee
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Reply #127 on: September 04, 2008, 09:29:53 AM

Oftentimes fighters who excelled outside MMA in a related discipline get pushed hard when they move to MMA.  They aren't made to "earn" their way in by demolishing a bunch of cans.

I've been watching MMA off-and-on ever since UFC2 a million years ago, but I've never followed it hardcore, or learned much about how they do business.  I take it the UFC signs these guys to contracts, and then acts as both promoter and manager?  How much input does the fighter and his team have into the fights they get?

Guys have their own managers.  Fighters are signed to "exclusive" contracts for anywhere between 4 and 7 fights,  with non compete provisions and renegotiation clauses.

Basically,  the UFC functions as one part promotion and one part sports league/governing body.  The UFC sets up matches and offers them to fighters who can then accept/decline,  though there are mechanisms where they can put pressure on the fighter.  For instance,  Vera declined a fight with Machida for his first bout at LHW and eventually got a relatively easy matchup.

I think it's pretty much impossible now for a Champ to duck a specific fighter (see Tito ducking Chuck Liddell). 

Unlike boxing, where everything is divied up by promoter, the UFC has a strong incentive to promote both their brand and the big name fighters they have on contract.  The UFC owns all the broadcasting rights,  so they also turn around and reissue DVDs and edit together the various hourly programs of selected UFC fights.

The UFC also puts together regular live televised matches on basic cable.


Alot of this is supposition and the conventional wisdom.  UFC is owned by Zuffa, LLC which is a "closely held" company,  therefor have much reduced reporting requirements compared to public companies.

Johny Cee
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Reply #128 on: September 04, 2008, 06:13:02 PM

WEC 36: FABER vs. BROWN
Date: 9/10/2008
Event Type: VERSUS Live Event
Location: Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino (Hollywood, Florida)
----------
Fight Card:

[20-1-0] Urijah Faber (c) vs. Mike Brown [19-4-0] - WEC Featherweight Championship
[16-0-0] Paulo Filho (c) vs. Chael Sonnen [21-8-1] - WEC Middleweight Championship
[15-3-0] Rob McCullough vs. Donald Cerrone [7-0-0]
[22-8-1] Jens Pulver vs. Leonard Garcia [11-3-0]
[3-0-0] Mark Munoz vs. Steve Steinbeiss [4-1-0]
[11-5-0] Tim McKenzie vs. Doug Marshall [7-3-0]
[4-0-0] Jake Rosholt vs. Danillo Villefort [8-2-0]
[8-4-0] Alex Serdyukov vs. Johny Hendricks [3-0-0]


This is the next WEC card.  Free on Versus, if you get that channel.  Some good fights here. 

Faber vs Brown - Don't know much about Brown.  Faber is a top 145 lber,  and a likely top P4P figther.  Always really active and puts on a great show. 

Filho vs. Sonnen II - Should be interesting.  Sonnen is a decent MW,  while Filho is supposed to be a top 5 MW.  Last fight, Sonnen looked to have Filho in real trouble right before Filho pulled off a sub.  Since then,  Filho has been in rehab.

"Razor" Rob McCullough vs. Cerrone - Cerrone is an up and comer that's looked good,  while Razor Rob is the former WEC WW champ.  Will be for a title match.

Jens Pulver vs Leonard Garcia -- Jens is Jens,  and Garcia isn't affraid to brawl, so should be a fun fight.
Evildrider
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Reply #129 on: September 04, 2008, 06:19:54 PM

Well you have Randy Cotoure vs Brock Lesnar at UFC 91 going on.
Johny Cee
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Reply #130 on: September 04, 2008, 09:15:28 PM

Well you have Randy Cotoure vs Brock Lesnar at UFC 91 going on.

I think that card will have Wanderlai Silva vs. Rampage and Kenny Florian vs. Joe Stevenson as well.


I'm excited any time Couture fights, and putting him against Brock makes for a great David vs. Goliath set up.  Brock is mostly a freestyle wrestling guy, where as Randy has a pretty thorough background in both freestyle and Greco. 

Still....  having a sport where a guy in his 40s can still be competitive?  Awesome.
Evildrider
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Reply #131 on: September 04, 2008, 09:25:36 PM

He should kill Lesnar.   awesome, for real
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #132 on: September 06, 2008, 11:06:11 PM

Liddell should bury Evans,

Heh, this didn't happen.  Liddell was out like a fucking light.  

Quote
- Kampman vs. Marquardt.  Dutch kickboxer versus all around good fighter?  Yes.  Should be a great fight.  Both are top tier MW fighters.

Marquadt punches extremely well, fast and in good combinations.

Was a good card.  Sat around the bar with my brother and a few peeps, got loaded, and yelled at the screen along with another hundred people.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Johny Cee
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Reply #133 on: September 06, 2008, 11:56:36 PM

Liddell should bury Evans,

Heh, this didn't happen.  Liddell was out like a fucking light.  

Yah, good win for Rashad.  I think Liddell is done as a top of the food chain fighter.  His unorthodox style was fine,  as long as the guys he faced had poor striking and he had the reflexes on his side.  He still has the potential to put alot of fighters out,  but I think the consistency is done.

This is the second time he's been punished for holding his hands so low.
Quote
Quote
- Kampman vs. Marquardt.  Dutch kickboxer versus all around good fighter?  Yes.  Should be a great fight.  Both are top tier MW fighters.

Marquadt punches extremely well, fast and in good combinations.

Was a good card.  Sat around the bar with my brother and a few peeps, got loaded, and yelled at the screen along with another hundred people.

Kampmann (who is a Dane,  not Dutch...  apologies to the Danes) is a solid fighter on a four fight win streak,  so this is a good win for Marquardt.  Kampmann looks really small for MW, especially next to Marquardt.  I wonder if Kampmann should be a WW?

I like Nate.  The fight against Leites he lost due to stupid mistakes (two point deductions?? really??) but he looked good in that fight.  This sets Marquardt as one or two wins from a rematch with Anderson Silva. 


-Of the other fights,  the first two rounds of Matt Brown vs. the "Stun Gun" were pretty good.  Brown is basically a sprawl 'n brawl figher,  while Kim is a 4th degree black belt in judo.

-The Hammill/Franklin fight was wierd.  Hammill only shot once?  Huh?

-The first two rounds of the Henderson/Palhares fight was decent.  Any of these fights where one guy is a huge, nasy BJJ practitioner tend to be boring....  No one wants to go to the ground with those guys, so it tends to be way conservative.


I honestly think we will probably see a Rich Franklin vs. Chuck Liddell fight next.  It's a big money fight for both guys (who get points on buys),  and the PPV buys will be through the roof so Management will sign off on it.
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Reply #134 on: September 07, 2008, 01:32:48 AM

I hate Rashad... I've hated him since the fucking TV show.
I'll be damned if he doesn't win every time i watch him.
WindupAtheist
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Reply #135 on: September 07, 2008, 09:34:21 AM

Well I don't know what Liddell thought he was doing.  He just stood there in front of Rashad, no head movement, arms not in any particularly good defensive position, and then paused for a moment before trying to throw an uppercut from the outside.  That's about as open an invitation as you can make for your opponent to put your lights out, and that's what Rashad did.

Rashad is primarily a wrestler, I guess?  His punches weren't as fundamentally sound as, say, those of Marquadt.  But they were fast and powerful, and Rashad seemed to move more fluidly than the plodding Liddell.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
stu
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Reply #136 on: September 08, 2008, 11:29:09 PM

Former Ultimate Fighting Championship middleweight champion Evan Tanner was found dead near Palo Verde, Calif. on Monday. He was 37.

Quote
Tanner had trekked into the desert on a journey to “cleanse” himself, according to Douglas Vincitorio of Tanner’s management team. “He went out to the desert to do a ‘cleansing’ as he called it. Kind of like ‘Survivorman.’” These short trips were not new to Tanner, said Vincitorio. It is something that he has done numerous times over the years.

“What we were told is that (Sheriff’s officials who found Tanner) believe his motorcycle had run out of gas, so he went to walk out in like 115- to 118-degree heat,” Vincitorio said. “He was miles away from his camp. That’s where the helicopter found him. Right now, they just think that he succumbed to the heat.”
 
Tanner had apparently told friends before he left that if they hadn’t heard from him in a couple of days, they should contact officials, which is what happened. When he stopped responding to text messages, friends waited a couple of days and then notified officials at the Imperial County Sherrif’s Department on Friday.

A search ensued and Tanner’s body was found Monday.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ys-mmaweektanner090808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



                                               

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Reply #137 on: September 10, 2008, 07:12:35 AM

Man this seriously bums me out. One of my favorite fighters. It's a goddamn shame.. Heartbreak

My Genesis games... LET ME SHOW YOU THEM!
Johny Cee
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Reply #138 on: September 17, 2008, 04:47:39 PM

UFC Fight Night tonight!!!  Live on Spike at 8PM est.

Main Card Bouts:

[9-2-0] Nate Diaz vs. Josh Neer [24-6-1]
[23-9-0] Clay Guida vs. Mac Danzig [18-4-1]
[8-3-0] Houston Alexander vs. Eric Schafer [9-3-2]
[14-6-0] Ed Herman vs. Alan Belcher [12-5-0]
[16-4-0] Joe Lauzon vs. Kyle Bradley [13-5-0]

----------
Preliminary Bouts:

[6-3-0] Drew McFedries vs. Mike Massenzio [10-2-0]
[12-7-0] Alessio Sakara vs. Joe Vedepo [7-1-0]
[11-3-0] Ryan Jensen vs. Wilson Gouveia [10-5-0]
[27-3-0] Rob Kimmons vs. Dan Miller [8-1-0]
[15-1-1] Jason Brilz vs. Brad Morris [9-3-0]


More than likely,  we'll just see the main card shows.  It's a fucking amazing main card, though.

- Danzig vs Clay Guida at 155lbs. is likely to be a Fight of the Year candidate.  Guida has never had a boring fight,  and Danzig has looked like a very good fighter. 

- I dislike Diaz.  He's an obnoxious punk.  Rooting for Neer to wreck him.

- Houston Alexander is a heavy hitting brawler with a solid win over Jardine.  Look for this to be over one way or another in the first 2 minutes.

- Joe Lauzon vs Kyle Bradley. Lauzon has huge amounts of potential,  and needs to get back on track after a loss to Kenny Florian.
Hoax
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Reply #139 on: September 17, 2008, 07:21:00 PM

Here are my picks, ordered by how confident I am.

Diaz > Neer -- You can't actually beat a Diaz, only outscore them, they are like terminators.
Alexander > Schafer -- This fight is sick, Schafer is a fucking clown who tries to walk in and Alexander should knock his head off.  Ofc I thought that last ppv for the Lambert fight and was wrong...
Vedepo > Sakara -- I want to make a point about what a waste of talent I think this lazy italian is..
Guida > Danzig -- Guida will get stronger as the fight wears on, plus he ought to be hungry.  This fight will be fun.
Belcher > Herman -- Not sure why really, just a hunch


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