Blizzard announces work on a new MMO

[Abelian75]

Regarding the use of guns in a sci-fi MMO - has anyone hacked TR to pull off some of the things that occurred in early FPSs like Doom or Quake e.g. auto aiming, shooting through walls, etc? To my knowledge no-one has (or no-one has cared enough to). I suspect there are better protections for FPS-style games now that look to block such hacks.

Unless TR has drastically changed since I played it, you don't really aim in it, it's pretty much just a regular MMO, only you have to hover the mouse over an enemy to select them as a target.  I don't think it matters where you shoot at the enemy, or even if you shoot directly at him, you just have to hover close enough to have selected him as a target.

[schild]

I'm looking into getting permission on some more information I withheld back then. Suffice it to say, the people present when said thing was... said... was not industry analysts. At all. Had nothing to do with them.

[UnSub]

Regarding the use of guns in a sci-fi MMO - has anyone hacked TR to pull off some of the things that occurred in early FPSs like Doom or Quake e.g. auto aiming, shooting through walls, etc? To my knowledge no-one has (or no-one has cared enough to). I suspect there are better protections for FPS-style games now that look to block such hacks.

Unless TR has drastically changed since I played it, you don't really aim in it, it's pretty much just a regular MMO, only you have to hover the mouse over an enemy to select them as a target.  I don't think it matters where you shoot at the enemy, or even if you shoot directly at him, you just have to hover close enough to have selected him as a target.

My point wasn't that it was exactly like an FPS, just kinda-sorta near enough for a sci-fi MMO.

I suppose something like Exteel could be another example (soft lock and server side hit calculations) even though that is just an online FPS with delusions of grandeur.

[Oban]

I think there's a number of problems with a sci-fi MMORPG and it will be fascinating to see how blizzard addresses them. ...

Have you ever played Starcraft? 

 

[schild]

So, back when I wrote that article about Blizzard a year ago, I wasn't entirely forthcoming. And I quoteth gamespot.

According to Schild, the Vivendi rep told the audience that "All Blizzard franchises will become MMOGs," and the developer-publisher has "a model now to develop an MMOG in three years for $50 million." According to the report, Vivendi's plan is to have two types of MMOGs--"long session games (more than two hours per session) and short session games (less than two hour sessions)." That means that, in theory, a World of Starcraft or Diablo MMOG could be ready as early as 2009, if it was started this year.

That "Vivendi Rep" that said this, was - heh - the CEO of Vivendi Games - Bruce Hack.

And now we all know why I made fun of Gamespot for listening to moderators of Blizzard and said that the gaming press should really try 'investigating' more. Also, it was in a meeting with investors, not some giant slideshow extravaganza.

[Lakov_Sanite]

ah but does the online functionality of the new b.net for diablo three constitute mmog as far as the ceo is concerned? because diablo3 would definitely be a shorter online game play time wise than wow. If so, will b.net add a subscription fee?

[schild]

Or did the '3 year' bit just turn out to be bullshit since Blizzard can't even wipe their own ass in 3 years. Because they ARE in fact making another mmog.

[Lakov_Sanite]

that's what im saying. Will wow and this unnamed mmog be the two "longer playtime" ones while D3 and SC2 via b.net be considered shorter play versions. I would assume this is the case which means this new mmo will be neither the sc or diablo franchise.

[LK]

For the love of...

Nobody considered Diablo 2 a MMOG when it came out.  It was only when Guild Wars and Hellgate were in development that people were bandying the term "MMOG" with those Diablo-esque games.  The ONLY thing that differs was that the "chat lobby" was in-game.

Diablo 3 is not an MMOG.  It's an action RPG with an extremely popular multiplayer component.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I dont think D3 will be an mmog, you don't think that and I'm sure a lot of people won't but in the context of what the CEO told Schild I bet you HE considers diablo3 an mmog

[eldaec]

For the love of...

Nobody considered Diablo 2 a MMOG

But only for 3 reasons:

1) No subscription fee
2) No graphical lobby
3) The term wasn't widely used when Diablo 1 was published.

Even MMORPG wasn't that widely used until EQ became popular around the same time as II was released.

Seriously though, the gap between D2 game design and 'something-that-everyone-here-would-recognise-as-a-MMOG' is so tiny, I can't imagine why they wouldn't make D3 a mmog, if only for the subscription income.

[Chimpy]

For the love of...

Nobody considered Diablo 2 a MMOG

But only for 3 reasons:

1) No subscription fee
2) No graphical lobby
3) The term wasn't widely used when Diablo 1 was published.

Even MMORPG wasn't that widely used until EQ became popular around the same time as II was released.

Seriously though, the gap between D2 game design and 'something-that-everyone-here-would-recognise-as-a-MMOG' is so tiny, I can't imagine why they wouldn't make D3 a mmog, if only for the subscription income.

I can't see how Battle.net is going to be a non-pay service with all the amorphous "advanced features and services" that they keep mentioning with any demos of SC 2 or D3.

That in and of itself could for an executive mean "mmog" as to the suits, "Mmmm $ub$cription income!" is synonymous with MMO.

Regardless what game purists may think, it will all boil down to a similar argument as the one people on electronic music boards have all the time with people who call anything with a synthesizer and a steady bassline "techno".

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'd drop $5 a month for D3 online services if they were nice enough.

[schild]

I'd drop $5 a month just to play Diablo 3. >_> There's very little I wouldn't do for diablo 3.

But let's not try to guess where the line is drawn, thx.

[Lantyssa]

Since when has it been necessary to be  pay subscription service to have the MMOG label applied?  Sure it's a standard in the West, but I'm pretty sure the acronymn stands for Massive Multiplayer Online Game and not Massive MOney Grubbing.

[eldaec]

Since when has it been necessary to be  pay subscription service to have the MMOG label applied?  Sure it's a standard in the West, but I'm pretty sure the acronymn stands for Massive Multiplayer Online Game and not Massive MOney Grubbing.

It isn't (or at least shouldn't be).

But the point is that by claiming to be a mmog, blizzard can apply the subscription label.

[Morfiend]

But let's not try to guess where the line is drawn, thx.

I am going to guess some where around running naked through east LA covered only in honey and wearing fuzzy bunny ears?

[Lakov_Sanite]

But let's not try to guess where the line is drawn, thx.

I am going to guess some where around running naked through east LA covered only in honey and wearing fuzzy bunny ears?

That is my god given right and commies like you are damned not going to take it from me.

[Lantyssa]

Pics or it doesn't happen.

[Daeven]

I can honestly say I would be more excited about a Starcraft MMO than almost any other game (Except maybe a Warhammer 40k MMO done by Blizzard).

Beh. This is simply Blizzards plan to Acquire the GDP of South Korea directly.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Does blizzard own a secret volcano fortress yet? that's the first stop and if they do go that route i really hope to get a job.



mmmm, flamethrower duty

[Ratman_tf]

Since when has it been necessary to be  pay subscription service to have the MMOG label applied?  Sure it's a standard in the West, but I'm pretty sure the acronymn stands for Massive Multiplayer Online Game and not Massive MOney Grubbing.

It isn't (or at least shouldn't be).

But the point is that by claiming to be a mmog, blizzard can apply the subscription label.

Worked out well for Hellgate: London. 

I'll speculate that Diablo 3 multiplayer will be nearly close to Guild Wars in that it will have in-game lobbies and have no subscription fee.

[UnSub]

Diablo 3 is not an MMOG.  It's an action RPG with an extremely popular multiplayer component.

Did the first release info say how many players can join up together at the same time? We saw 4 at once. I think 8 players was the max in D2, right?

Perhaps D3 will allow for a large number of players on the same map at the same time - perhaps 16 or 32 players, or more. If HG:L is a MMO, then D3 almost certainly will be.

Hell, allow team PvP - in a game called Throne of Darkness, in multiplayer games you could have one player as the evil side, who wouldn't be attacked by monsters and could attack the other players. Never played the multiplayer myself, but it was a novel idea.

And I really expect that there will be some extra fees in place for players using an updated Battle.net - play the basic game for free, pay $5 a month to get access to extra services (Dungeon Runners) or perhaps change RL cash to some kind of in-game currency (Exteel). MMOs don't have to have a $15-a-month sub fee to be a MMO; it comes down to more "how many players can appear in the same place as my character?". You want to play for free, you can, but you want a secure account, playing on servers where cheating players get kicked or where ladder scores are recorded? That'll be a few extra bucks.

It was interesting to find out recently that WoW was originally planned as a free-to-play, but now that Blizzard is used to the sweet, sweet ongoing fees, I can't really see them giving it up.

[rk47]

Nija's point really hit it well. the universe of starcraft allows too many gameplay elements to be not incorporated into one package. It's like a buffet...you can't leave out certain things. And when I think of Space MMO that only had ground combat....something is missing. So they put in vehicles. But can I fly? Ok so they gave me aircraft. What about space? There's just too much to make it feel 'complete' and it'll be too overwhelming to package it right.

Let's look at what will happen to Star Trek Online first shall we? 

[schild]

Let's look at what will happen to Star Trek Online first shall we?

There won't be anything to look at. But it might end up being a worthwhile game that isn't Star Trek at all.

[rk47]

Hmmmm. I think you may be right. If they really stick to the TV Series style of convenient-tech (my friend's major pet peeve: beam me up FZZEWWWW. Phaser to stun, point, press, pew.) there wouldn't be much of a 'game' in there. But I look forward to being part of a capital ship. I don't care if I don't do anything important, I just want to be in a ship like Entreprise. Walking around in corridor, praying for the captain to fly the ship without getting us blown up in Klingon space, socializing in the entertainment lounge. And then running to the window to watch the battle when the ship gets into a fight.

[lamaros]

I don't think there's anything inherently problematic about making a SF MMO. There are some problems with certain liscences, and some problems with a universe not being as obviously limited in scope as a single continent, but these are not really big issues.

As for what there is in the Starcraft universe that has to be included, well your core elements are basiclly the same as WoW.

Blizzard could make a SC a SF MMO just by reskinning WoW and having spaceship loading screens instead of portals/zeppelins/whatever. People would be disapointed that they don't get to fly about in their own ship and explore the universe, but that's just how it goes. If you make a ship based game then people would be dissapointed they didn't get to walk about on the planets themselves.

What you are really talking about are problems with players expectations, not problems with making a good game. If people are going to look at any MMO and think they'll get to do anythin they can possibly imagine, SF or otherwise, then they'll be disappointed, the fact that some companies have thought like this and screwed things up is indicative of poor game design however, not inherent problems.

Nija's point really hit it well. the universe of starcraft allows too many gameplay elements to be not incorporated into one package. It's like a buffet...you can't leave out certain things. And when I think of Space MMO that only had ground combat....something is missing. So they put in vehicles. But can I fly? Ok so they gave me aircraft. What about space? There's just too much to make it feel 'complete' and it'll be too overwhelming to package it right.

What's so special in SC? It is a RTS game based on fighting on planets, not in space, with hero units, cities, and so forth very much like WoW. You have space ships and the like but they are used to go inbetween planets, they don't live out in space away from anything else. Population centres are ground based. While you have flying units and ships on the planets you have flying units and creatures in WoW now too. It would make no sense for SC to be made into a EVE like MMO as there are few EVE aspects in the universe compared to the WoW/LotR/whatever aspects.

You want to get a ship? So they give you one, 'here fly around this planet'. You want to fly in space? Bad luck, you can't!

Of course they may well make it so you can, and do it well, but it doesn't have to be possible.

Given Blizzard's history of game design I think it's pretty safe to say they'll begin with a WoW like planet based universe in their design, something they have a reasonably good handle on now with their expansions, build a few key planets or more and make them work for what they do. Once that is out of the way they will probably have a few ideas, some of the newish but mostly drawing from what other games have done, about how to handle space and player interation with it.

But they're not going to all go for some EVElike game with planets, ground combat, and more!, all included. They'll keep it pretty simple and controlled.

And as others have said earlier, you'll probalby get some indication of things they are going to work in there from what they include in WoW expansions. It's a great place for them to test out an idea or two and see how it plays out.

[schild]

I don't think there's anything inherently problematic about making a SF MMO.

Should've stopped there. Because you're mostly wrong. There are things that people associate with MMOGs and the tech and infrastructure necessary to pull off those things in an MMOG setting are still shite. Eve only works because it's terribly slow and devoid of any real content. Without the players it has, it would've been forgotten. Aside from that, it's a political game, as I already said, not a sci-fi game.

I expect we'll see the first real sci-fi MMOGs (and not just fantasy reskinned as sci-fi) in a good 3-4 years.

Edit: Also, part of that tech and infrastructure requires MMOG developers to think outside the box. Short of Blizzard reskinning WoW and replacing bows with Guns - which is definitely not thinking outside the box - we're just not there yet.

[lamaros]

I don't think there's anything inherently problematic about making a SF MMO.

Should've stopped there. Because you're mostly wrong. There are things that people associate with MMOGs and the tech and infrastructure necessary to pull off those things in an MMOG setting are still shite. Eve only works because it's terribly slow and devoid of any real content. Without the players it has, it would've been forgotten. Aside from that, it's a political game, as I already said, not a sci-fi game.

I expect we'll see the first real sci-fi MMOGs (and not just fantasy reskinned as sci-fi) in a good 3-4 years.

Well that depends what SF means to people. As I said, there are certain licences that bring a lot of trouble with them, and certain nerds who bring a lot of expectations. But these things are not inherent to SF.

Look at something considered in another thread for instance, Dune. It's a SF novel. It's based in a universe where (originally) hardly anyone travels between planets due to a monoploy, where most guns don't work because people have body shields, and so on. In terms of mechanics it'd be very fantasy-like. But it is SF.

Now you bring in other stuff where there is meant to be a huge explorable universe, space travel, ships manned by 30 people fighting each other, etc then you have trouble. That kind of shit wont work in a DIKU I wager and we wont see it for a good while.

But none of that stuff is inherent. No game has to include all that shit.

Anyhow this is just a bit pedantic, I understand what you and rk mean, but you're talking about gameplay as much as genre as far as I see it.

[schild]

As has been discovered as MMORPGs mature, Gameplay makes the genre. Not the other way around - and that's unfortunate. But the industry painted itself into a corner.

[LC]

I bet what ever it is will be as generic and unfun as WoW.

[rk47]

whatever it is, I hope they don't have soulbounds. It's annoying enough to have BoE , they still have to slap me harder with BoP.

[eldaec]

Well that depends what SF means to people..

To most people it means something set in the future with spaceships or other futuristic weapons.

I know that isn't all hard-SF writers mean. But in the inevitable diku context hard-SF is mostly backstory. So if SF means anything to a mmog designer it means spaceships and/or futuristic shit.

[sinij]

Expect more of the same - polished to the point that all ambition got buffed out.

[Tale]

Unless TR has drastically changed since I played it, you don't really aim in it, it's pretty much just a regular MMO, only you have to hover the mouse over an enemy to select them as a target.  I don't think it matters where you shoot at the enemy, or even if you shoot directly at him, you just have to hover close enough to have selected him as a target.

Only with rifle/pistol type weapons and anything that uses their targeting system.

The shotgun, for example, does not work that way - you fire, and targets in a cone area in front of you take damage.

Blast effects are like the shotgun but multidirectional.

Also, because terrain and cover matter in TR, targeting and damage ultimately work quite differently from a regular MMO.