Looking for a relay agent for the WoW forums...

[Kitsune]

Given that I have no account just now, I can't post on the forums.  But if anyone could post this on the Stormrage server forum, I'd be gratified.  Please reply to this message before doing so; if multiple people post the same message, it'd probably annoy their mods.

Looking for good non-raider guilds.

I don't like raids.  I don't like herding twenty to forty kittens.  I don't like huge logistical overhead.  I don't like DKP.  I don't like screens full of health bars.  I don't like loot drama.  When Lich King comes out with 10-person raids, I'll be just dandy with them, but for now I don't like raids.  I have no gripe with raiders, but raiding is just not up my alley.  All I want to do is go, murder some monsters, and take their belongings, and I want to do it without first wasting an hour of getting organized and juggling waiting lists.

So I joined a casual guild.  This worked out great, until the guild decided that it was a 'casual raiding' guild.  Within six months, everything was on fire.  The slightly-less-casual members had decided that the slightly-more-casual members were holding them back, and 'Hee hee, let's go mess around in MC for kicks!' became 'You haven't run BWL twenty times?  GET ON THE #$%@ING WAITING LIST!'  In and of itself, this didn't really affect me; I wasn't trying to get into BWL to begin with.  But the guild basically disintegrated beneath me in the ensuing war as alliances were formed and split off in search of more epics.

So, raids killed my fun.  My guildmates who weren't busy being on raids were instead being busy quitting the guild or writing bad things about other guildmates on the guild forum, and I was basically on my own the whole time.  When my time card ran out, I didn't renew it.  At first it was with the thought of just taking a couple weeks' break, letting my characters' rest bars refill, and coming back, but the time passed and I just didn't come back.  I basically quit without even intending to.

Now they're working on an expansion with more five and ten person content than before.  This is a good enough idea to spark my interests in coming back; the fun of monster-murder without the logistical nightmares of dealing with lots of people.  I don't care about the best loot; the big raids are welcome to it.  All I want is fun.  Because it's a video game.  Which is supposed to be fun.


tl;dr

I'm looking for a Stormrage alliance guild that is not occupied with raiding.  And by this, I don't mean a guild that doesn't raid because it's incapable of it; 14-year-old Timmy's Awesum D00dz guild with five people don't really count.  I mean a guild of intelligent and competent players who are not raiding by inclination rather than incompetence.  Raid-preparing guilds don't count either; guilds of people who are only sticking around to get geared up before splitting and joining raiding guilds aren't really a recipe for lasting teammates.  My main is a 61st (or 62nd, I'm not quite certain) feral druid, backed up by a mid-50s demonology warlock and a 30ish retribution pally.  I'm likely rusty as hell, but figure that I should be able to get back in the swing of things without much trouble.

[slog]

Drama!!!

It's not unusual for people to reach the endgame to want to participate in it.

[Kitsune]

Raiding isn't the only endgame content to be had.  And there's no drama involved; if I can find a non-raiding guild, I'll resubscribe.  If I can't, I won't.  No muss, no fuss.

[Kirth]

I'd wait tell WotLK to resub if your looking for something small scale. The inevitable slide from "Hey we can do two kara groups now" to "SSC/TK/BT/Hyjel nightly, show up with flasks or not at all" is a slippery one. I'll post your request however, just don't be shocked at the replys:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7353018405&postId=73010990807&sid=1#0

[slog]

Raiding isn't the only endgame content to be had.  And there's no drama involved; if I can find a non-raiding guild, I'll resubscribe.  If I can't, I won't.  No muss, no fuss.

This is World of Warcraft we are talking about right?  Your endgame choices are:

1) Play the same 4 BG maps over and over
2) Arena
3) Raid
4) Do the boring dailys.
5) Heroics

Am I missing something?

[Dren]

I think he means 5-10 instances.  Yes, 10 man instances are raids.

"Raids" is really too general for WoW anymore.  There are RAIDS and then there are Raids.

[Kitsune]

Thanks, Kirth; I appreciate it.  I'm not expecting much from the WoW boards other than piles of stupidity, but you never know.

As for waiting for WotLK, if I do that I'll be hugely behind the curve at 61.  It's the hope of hitting 70 and being prepared for its release that spurs me to resub early.

[slog]

I think he means 5-10 instances.  Yes, 10 man instances are raids.

"Raids" is really too general for WoW anymore.  There are RAIDS and then there are Raids.

Oh he means the 25 mans.  Yea, they blow.

[Kitsune]

Yeah, 25s.  (And 20s and 40s, though I know they're obsolete now.)

And Kirth, you might wanna mention that the post isn't coming from you.  I expect there'll be a fair bit of flames, and wouldn't want it to hurt your reputation.

[Kirth]

Yeah, 25s.  (And 20s and 40s, though I know they're obsolete now.)

And Kirth, you might wanna mention that the post isn't coming from you.  I expect there'll be a fair bit of flames, and wouldn't want it to hurt your reputation.

I posted on a alt I use for trolling/flaming so no fear.

[lamaros]

Level that Ret Pally. I've got mine to 40 last night (free mount!) and it's fun as heck.

[Register]

Level that Ret Pally. I've got mine to 40 last night (free mount!) and it's fun as heck.

I leveled a Ret Pally too, but as you hit Outlands you will start to slow down as mobs start to hit harder and harder, and you end up doing more and more healing after each fight resulting in more downtime drinking - blessing of wisdom does not quite cut it vs the rate you use mana.

Comparatively, early to mid 60s other classes get significant buffs - warlocks get fel armor for significant boots to drain returns, hunters get aspect of viper that really help the mana regen for major shot spamming, shamans get watershield i.e. unlimited mana, druids get lifebloom e.g. unlimited heals. etc

Its still doable to level to 70, and much faster than earlier builds of pally. But I lost steam for my pally when I slowed down to the point of drinking every 2 (when SOC refuse to proc) to 4 mobs in Outlands when all my other classes can grind single mobs non-stop till my eyes/fingers hurt.

Prot pally wise it might be a different story though - they are now very strong tanks, and they can grind ridiculous amounts of mobs at the same time. My pally is on a pvp server, so AE grinding comes with extra danger - if someone targets you mid-pull, chances are you are dead. Come to think of it, even without mobs on you, a prot pally is in big trouble if they are targeted by any range/caster class.

[lamaros]

I instance a lot, I don't like questing, so I don't expect I would be bothered too much. However I don't think I'll play the pally much past level 60, there's nothing much to do at 70 that I want to do and I have my Warlock if I need to get gold or anything. Plus I don't want to bore myself of outlands even more than I have to (Outlands sucks, generally speaking--shit zones and worse isntances) seeign how I'm going to have to do 58-68 there on my DK later this year.

Also, why not just solo w/o using crusader strike if mana is an issue? Is it that huge a DPS increase?

[Register]

Also, why not just solo w/o using crusader strike if mana is an issue? Is it that huge a DPS increase?

Its not just crusader strike taking up mana - it's the heals after the fight as the mob damage scale up. A ret pally just do not have enough +int and +healing, so healing up from fights can take a large chunk of your mana.

By not using dps abilities the combat lasts longer, and you chalk up more damage and require even more heals. Also, outland have a significant number of mobs that enrage on low hp - if you don't burst them down you will take a chunk of additional damage. Hammer of wrath, the pally's execute, also requires a hefty chunk of mana to cast.

And crusader strike is the gem in crown of the Ret tree - its a insta strike that does 110% of weapon damage - with a good slow 2hander it scales very well, as well as being an additional chance to crit to proc Vengance, which adds up to another significant amount of damage.

[Dren]

I've stayed with a more Holy/Shock build that allows me to heal very well with a large mana pool.  I just change gear to a more DPS mode (more +crit and +damage rather than +healing) and strap on a big two hander when I need to do DPS.  It is certainly more than enough for solo work and sometimes helps out when we need a DPS position in a group/raid quickly.

Many times I'll supplement my main healing position with some added DPS if the fights aren't too involved.  It really speeds things up.

Granted, my pally has nearly 3 full sets of purples to play around with between PvP, Healing, and DPS.

[Merusk]

Don't heal up after fights. Eat/ Drink/ Bandage like the rest of us schlubs.  Prot pallies have to do it, and Hell, even my priest never healed after fights.  If I was hurt that bad I had to mana-up anyway so it was eat/drink at the same time. If I wasn't hurt that bad, that mana was better served killin something.

Outlands sucks, generally speaking--shit zones and worse isntances

Replay some of the old zone again.  Plaguelands was worse than the worst zone in Outlands (pre-flight) - Netherstorm.   Ashenvale also sucks tremendous amounts of cock.  The Outlands zones are ok, they just get tedious due to the time spent in them.  I haven't spent anywhere near as much time in a zone as I have in Zangamarsh since my first run through Stranglethorn back in 04.

I 100% agree on the instances, though.  The best one in the expansion was ramparts and that's just because it's so damn short.

[Xanthippe]

I actually like the zones in Outlands, except for Netherstorm, and Blade's Edge.  Ok, so I like 3 of the 5.  BE and Netherstorm are fine with flying mounts, but before that, they can be tedious.  Still, they are better than Ashenvale, Darkshore or Plaguelands, in my opinion.

[Calantus]

BEM is fine as alliance because you get thrown around to the various places you need to be by a helpful gnome in Toshley's Station, you even get gold and experience for it!

Nagrand eats away at my soul. It's beutiful, but horrifying at the same time. There's just way too much "kill shitloads of this mob" one after the other and not just from old Nessy. I typically skip it entirely now. Other than that I quite like outlands. I also disagree on the instances being bad. I like all of them except for BF because those mines just suck so hard.

[lamaros]

Outlands sucks, generally speaking--shit zones and worse isntances

Replay some of the old zone again.  Plaguelands was worse than the worst zone in Outlands (pre-flight) - Netherstorm.   Ashenvale also sucks tremendous amounts of cock.  The Outlands zones are ok, they just get tedious due to the time spent in them.  I haven't spent anywhere near as much time in a zone as I have in Zangamarsh since my first run through Stranglethorn back in 04.

I 100% agree on the instances, though.  The best one in the expansion was ramparts and that's just because it's so damn short.

There are so many original zones thought that I can skip the ones I dont like. Outlands is a straight rail in comparison where not doing stuff fucks you over.

I like plaguelands btw. Ashenvale is awful though, awful awful. I'm glad we will never see shit like that again.

Hellfire is ok. Ugly but passable. Zangarmarsh is nice, really. Terrokkar is good, except for the blasted bit, that's meh. Nagrand is too large nad too all over the shop. Too much killing random shit. Design is good but the questing is much more meh. BEM is just fucking annoying. Netherstorm is ugly as hell and boring.

The instances for me:

Ramps: Quick rail with one kinda intersitng boss. Doesn't feel like a real place at all though.
BF: This is just horrible. More rail, more boring nonsense. One interesting boss (beholder-like guy) and that's it.
SH: Feels more like a place than the others but is still a rail. Bosses are boring. Heoric mode is fun for the timed runs that's about it.

SP: Ugh. This is ok. Better than the others but still..
Underbog: Thre first passable instance. Some variety with not everything being a humaniod pull, feel move like a cave and a bit sprawling. Bosses are a bit meh but are fun.
SV: Feels more like a place if a bit generic with the boss placements, bosses ok.

MT: Fun bosses but horrible design. Hardly ever run because the trash is so fucking annoying.
AC: Boring and easy. Feels like a rail. Take too long for a rail.
SL: Would have been much better if it wasn't a rail. Had some great parts but doesn't come together in feeling for me.

OHB: Good instance.
Black Morass: Good instance.

Bot: Ok.
Mech: Feels halfmade. Last boss is like wtf. Biggest letdown ever.
Arc: Fun.

Compare to the fantastic instance design in original:

RFC: Completely shit.
WC: Feels exactly like what it should. Not a rail. Has an event.
SFK: Feels like a fucking place. Is a rail but it doesn't take away from the feeling.
SM: Feels like a place. Lib sucks but apart from that is good.
Ulda: Feels like a place. Lots of bosses. One of the best bosses. (Annoying to get to for horde, though)
ZF: Feels like a place. Lots of bosses. Some voluntary. Not a rail.
Mara: A little bit off but still feels pretty good. Doable from a couple of directions, can skip to just the last few bosses. Great lore/quests tied in.
ST: Fuck people who don't like this. Clear up the trash by cutting it in half in places and this is one of the best instances ever. Fucking awesome.
BRD: Best instance in the game by streets. Suffers from not having alternate start points like Mara, and from being a leveling rather than end game instance.
DM: I don't like this as much as others. Feels a little generic. But I've not leveled up while it was in the game and done quests associated with it, so manybe that makes it better. Still good for design.
Strath: Fucking awesome. Nearly as good as BRD.
Scholo: Nearly as good as strath.
BRS: I don't really like spire. Too much trash, too big for the number of bosses.

Original did a few things wrong, one being that BRD, Ulda, and ST should have been level cap instances or raids (BRD would be an awesome raid) while others like SM (sans-lib), SFK, Mara, were prefect leveling instances.

But blizzard too the wrong message from the enjoyment of SM and assumed that all people wanted were rails, and thought they could get away with putting in heaps of them without bothering to make them make sense.

I would pay for an expansion that turned BRD, ST, Ulda, into raids and gave us heroic versions of Scholo, Strath, Mara, ZF, and SFK and nothing else.

[Chimpy]

Why in the world are people talking about worst zones in history and leaving out Silithus?

Worst zone in history.

Of course, for people who don't remember the worm charges knocking you halfway across the zone or the mobs having no loot at all on their loot table but being required for the stupid Molten Core quests probably don't have the same feeling as us old farts do.

Seriously, I despise several parts of outlands, but I would rather have every zone be a clone of Durotar for the entire game than ever set foot in silithus again. I don't even think my shaman has ever been to silithus I hate the place that much.

[Register]

Why in the world are people talking about worst zones in history and leaving out Silithus?

Worst zone in history.

Of course, for people who don't remember the worm charges knocking you halfway across the zone or the mobs having no loot at all on their loot table but being required for the stupid Molten Core quests probably don't have the same feeling as us old farts do.

Seriously, I despise several parts of outlands, but I would rather have every zone be a clone of Durotar for the entire game than ever set foot in silithus again. I don't even think my shaman has ever been to silithus I hate the place that much.

Silithus is also where you get the sandworm meat and its recipe to push cooking to 300 without fishing.

Ally my chars drop by there to do the sandworm recipe quest and grind a few twilight cultist for the first quest or two since they are nearby.

[caladein]

BRD: Best instance in the game by streets. Suffers from not having alternate start points like Mara, and from being a leveling rather than end game instance.
DM: I don't like this as much as others. Feels a little generic. But I've not leveled up while it was in the game and done quests associated with it, so manybe that makes it better. Still good for design.

These two statements convince me that you and I have completely different opinions on what makes a "good instance".

[Rasix]

No shit.  BRD was boring and long.  Most of  the pre TBC instances save a few I'd characterize as "boring and long".

[ajax34i]

And, IMO, Sunken Temple was hard to get a group together for because having to deal with poisons, sleep, polymorph:frog, AND diseases meant bringing a druid AND a priest, and back then healers were rare and feral kinda sucked (or at least that was my impression at the time).

[Calantus]

Every flavour of druid but resto kinda sucked back then.

[Dren]

For all the crap you get doing 25-man instances, I do like the design of Mags and Gruul's.

Do a few "way easy by comparison" pulls and you hit the bosses.  The boss fights themselves are hard and need a ton of cooperation, but that's what everyone comes for and has fun with.  Trash pulls just generally suck, so I was glad to see them take them out.

I'd like to see more instances designed around 2-3 boss fights with maybe 2-3 trash pulls between them.  The rest of it can be eye candy.  Throw in some optional quest items/bosses/summonings/etc. and that would be spiffy.

If they need to keep with the illusion that the instance is filled with tons of enemies, then provide a unique way to bypass them with something other than combat.  If people want to get through it with brute force, go ahead.  If you want to do it quicker and with more finesse, figure out the trick.

[lamaros]

No shit.  BRD was boring and long.  Most of  the pre TBC instances save a few I'd characterize as "boring and long".

And the TBC ones are really boring and short? 

You need to read more carefully.

BRD does have problems, as I said. It is certainly too long for a leveling instance, and it is too big for just having one enterance. But putting it at the level cap where people have more desire to spend time in a place instead of just pop in and out on the leveling process would chance much of that, as would giving it three alternate enterances unlucked whenever you kill up to boss x and y so that is becoems 'winged' a-la SM, DM, etc.

I fail to see how you could think BRD is not far far better than any TBC instance when it comes to the quest/lore involvement however. Nor when it comes to the zone feeling like a real place. It feels like a sprawling city too me, and has events, variety, quests, can be done in a whole number of different ways depending on your requirements.

ST, Ulda, BRD, and some others also suffered from the annoying length of time it took to get to them. Not so bad now that there are the summoning stones. Back in the day getting together a PUG was hard not just for the instance itself but all the futzing about to get everyone there. Being Warlock it was probably a little less annoying for me, too.

But anyway: People like Kara, yes?

BRD is better than Kara and if it was a level cap 10man with another enterance, like Kara's back enterance, many people would enjoy the place a whole lot more. They should have made it the UBRS, in which case I think people would have a different view of the place.

Even as it is though it is still the most fun instance I have done in the game. I've only completed it in full a couple of times, which speaks to its problems, but still.  We'll never see leveling instances like it again, but at least we'll see stuff this good and better (if they learn from Kara) in future 10-mans.

DM I have only done as a level 60 so I dont know. I'll see if it feels any different when I do it again this time on my Pally.

I like Gruul and Mag a lot too Dren, though the timers on Mag trash originally were a bit fucking annoying. I dont think they shoudl put in too many 1 and 3 man boss instances though, you need to keep the balance there. I think you need a Naxx/Kara  with a couple of Gruul/Ony types and some TK length stuff also. TBC got the mix pretty well, though maybe SSC could be a little shorter.

If they need to keep with the illusion that the instance is filled with tons of enemies, then provide a unique way to bypass them with something other than combat.  If people want to get through it with brute force, go ahead.  If you want to do it quicker and with more finesse, figure out the trick.

People will complain though. I mean, look at BRD. 

[Rasix]

You need to read more carefully.

What do I need to read more carefully? I wasn't neccessarily commenting in your general direction.

You like BRD.  Fantastic. I didn't.  I didn't like the 60s instance scene enough that I instead I tortured myself by diving headfirst into the raiding (boy was that a bad idea).  The only stuff I would even do outside of the 20/40 man instances were DM North chest runs or Strath dead side. I liked the rails. I liked SM, I liked DM. I liked gameplay that could be accomplished in small digestable chunks with decent challenge.  The rails of TBC accomplish this for me for the most part.

I'm making comments about preference, you're trying to make this into some sort of debatable science about the absolute merits of WoW 5 man instances.  Given a choice between coherent level design/lore and stuff I can get done before it's only 6 hours before I have to wake up, I'll choose the later. 

It's somewhat lamentable that for the most part, instance design has been somewhat of a binary thing.

[Kirth]

IMO, BRD and BRS all seem like they were conceived as a public dungeons and then just flipped to a single group instance. They are both huge, with various "camps" and both have entrances to raid instances inside of them.

I notice things like this alot in WoW, that is areas where design work has been done but then the concept or whatever changes but they keep the foundation. Karahzan makes me think it was designed for a larger group initially but didn't make it into vanilla, and when they brought it back for TBC they kept the zone layout and just scaled it for 10 man. 

[Merusk]

BRD is awesome, I agree.  It doesn't even need the back entrance. You can go 3 different routes from the front. 4 if you count the ring of law, which is only a few short pulls from the entrance.  Like you said, though, it's put at the wrong spot in the progression and sucks in that manner.

My favorites are still the old UBRS, LBRS and Strath.  The new instances just aren't as fun as they feel like they were supposed to be "a challenge" rather than "someplace to go and kill shit in a dungeon crawl."  Fuck, as with everything else, the trash is more annoying than the bosses in all of the BC instances.

[lamaros]

You need to read more carefully.

What do I need to read more carefully? I wasn't neccessarily commenting in your general direction.

Ah, I thought you were commenting in my general direction because the person you were agreeing with quoted me. My bad.

I agree with a lot of the issues with BRD. I stated they are issues in my original post (hence me assuming you missed that because I assumed you were refering to me) but think that they are played up a lot.

I love Strath. Strath is great because it feels like a place and has two sides to it that you don't have to do at the same time, but could if you want. It's not a rail. Not only is there Dead/Live but there are different ways to do both sides and elective bosses.

You can do much of BRD the same way. You probably haven't, probably never will, and probably don't care, but you can. You can do fast Emp runs if you want to. You can do long epic runs that take ages also. But you can do that in Strath to a degree if you want as well; just run dead and live both.

I'm not going to tell you what to like and dislike, but the misconception that BRD is some kinda of 5 hour monster is just silly, especially as you admit you've hardly ever visited the place.

IMO, BRD and BRS all seem like they were conceived as a public dungeons and then just flipped to a single group instance. They are both huge, with various "camps" and both have entrances to raid instances inside of them.

I notice things like this alot in WoW, that is areas where design work has been done but then the concept or whatever changes but they keep the foundation. Karahzan makes me think it was designed for a larger group initially but didn't make it into vanilla, and when they brought it back for TBC they kept the zone layout and just scaled it for 10 man.

That might explain a bit of it, though it would have had to come early in the design stage before they instanced things, as I'm pretty confident they were always going to be epic areas with bosses.

As far as I'm aware Kara was in development for a long time, as in started before original release, so I guess it has probably gone through a varitey of movements before it was finally settled as a 10man.

I do wonder what they're doing with the crypts though (for those that haven't visited there is a section under Kara from the crypt enterance which has heaps of room and some really nice design). There must be a fair bit of stuff they have lying around still that they haven't used yet. Why though? When you have all that stuff already basicly finished and have people clamouring for content why don't they put it out? I can only assume that it is tied to some lore stuff they want to save for later.

[Paelos]

I liked UBRS a lot because it was one of the first places outside of raiding that you might see an epic drop outside of a 40 man at that time. I like Strat because the design is really well done and the flavor of the instance just feels right. Also, the trash is what I would call perfectly balanced on the dead side in terms of spacing.

The TBC instances are ok, but there are only a few I still like to run. Sethekk is a good balance for me, but it doesn't really stand out in terms of cool design. Mechanar looks really neat with the all the cool see-through designs, and it's relatively short with cool first boss fight on heroic. Underbog is a lot of fun for me, and I think the place really feels like it's supposed to in terms of overall design.

As for the stuff that bothered me, Magister's Terrace trash annoys me because the pacing just feels wrong, and it's needlessly repetative. I had major problems with Karazhan until they took the shears to the place, and everyone started to outgear it. The trash in the middle was horribly excessive and punative at the time to get to the point where you could port past most of the trouble. Now, it's just a non-issue. ZA was nicely put together, but something about the place never clicked for me. We killed all four of the animal guys eventually, and got most of the chest stuff, but we just couldn't force ourselves to put in the efforts on the last two due to boredom or time constraints.

[Dren]

I'm still hoping they tame down ZA soon.  I haven't even been able to get into a run for that place because nobody is interested.  The hardcores from the guilds I raid with all went there and hated it so they won't lead anything back in there.  So, we just keep farming Kara, Mags, and Gruul's.  There have been some foray's into the other 25 man instances, but I really dislike those.  Too long, too many people, and too many trash pulls.

Karazhan seems to have the balance people enjoy.  Being a 10 man is a good start.  Having multiple paths to chose from helps with managing everyone's time and availability for the night.  Trash pulls are evident, but there are probably only like 5-7 pulls between most bosses.  Much less in some cases which helps keep things being too repetitive.

Trash is linked to bosses, so you don't have to do complete cleans every night when you return.  Shortcuts are available once you get to a certain point in the instance (teleport to the Library.)  This was the first place to start putting multiple badges on all the bosses (except for Attumen who has 1.)  Everyone gets something from the runs regardless if they got a purple or not. (Rep, Rep rewards, badges)

The lewtz are done quite well.  It seems like everyone, no matter what class, wants to come along because there is plenty to be had by all.  Getting geared in Karazhan means you have a foothold on even more content in the game.  You can start feeling confident in Mag's, Gruul's, PvP (until you get some PvP rewards,) etc.

Lastly, it isn't easy.  Sure, if you have 10 veterans with full gear it is a joke.  The first run we do for each week is called our "Badge Run."  We chain pull and blow through the place in just over 3 hours.  DE items at the end and grab your badges along the way.  However, once you have an inexperienced person or a few that are not quite geared right, the boss fights become a challenge and you can't seem to chain pull anymore so it takes longer.  Even with our "Badge Runs," we respect Karazhan because she can smack your ass if you start to get too cocky.

[slog]

Way to much trash in Kara.

[Dren]

Way to much trash in Kara.

I'd be fine with fewer, but they are easy pulls.  We always have a tank and offtank in the group.  Each tank grabs a group and leapfrog.  DPS and Healing can keep up with it and we whip through it all very quickly.  We can hit Moroes in probably 20 minutes.  We are probably at opera in about 30 more minutes.  Nightbane is summoned 10 minutes later.  Then we go take on Curator in about 30 more minutes.  Aran is 20-25 minutes after that.  Go back and do Illhoof in 2 minutes.  Netherspite is 15 minutes away.  Chess another 10 minutes.  Prince another 20 minutes.  Then go back and clean up Attumen and Maiden.  Each of those is probably 20 minutes.

3.5 hours, 11 bosses, 22 badges each, tons of purple lewtz.  Of course, you just can't screw up anything!