Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[koro]

So I've put a bit of time into the open beta and gotten to about level 26. I like the space combat despite it being a pale imitation of Starfleet Command and I like the ground combat when in a team with friends. What I don't like is the pitiful lack of content.

Starting at around 23 or 24 (depending on how many side things like pvp or fleet actions or Deep Space Encounters you've done) the amount of story/patrol missions the game doles out to you begins to dry up with a quickness. At first it's not enough to get you that last bar or two of xp to level. Then story missions dry up when you're halfway through a level. Then you end up only getting 1-2 per level, and the rest is grinding incredibly repetitive Exploration missions that you can only accept once an hour, pvp, or Deep Space Encounters. I've been told that by the 30s, there are some level spans with no missions at all. Just grinding.

Then of course there's the complete lack of content from level 40 until the cap of 50. Not even some slapdash exploration missions. Just barren empty zones. The guy I talked to who's stuck at 42 with no way to advance but grind lower-level stuff has a playtime of about 60 hours. Even somewhat casual players are going to hit that in under three weeks. Granted, this is all better than the Klingons get, which is essentially nothing but pvp to level.

I was definitely considering grabbing this maybe a week after release when some of the biggest server problems calmed down a little, but finding this out certainly delays this for at least a month or three.

[Malakili]

Then of course there's the complete lack of content from level 40 until the cap of 50. Not even some slapdash exploration missions. Just barren empty zones. The guy I talked to who's stuck at 42 with no way to advance but grind lower-level stuff has a playtime of about 60 hours.

I heard they reduced the cap to 45 is that true?

Anyway, Champions Online had the same problem of a terrible lack of content.  Their incredibly abbreviated development cycle means its basically impossible.

[01101010]

So I've put a bit of time into the open beta and gotten to about level 26. I like the space combat despite it being a pale imitation of Starfleet Command and I like the ground combat when in a team with friends. What I don't like is the pitiful lack of content.

Starting at around 23 or 24 (depending on how many side things like pvp or fleet actions or Deep Space Encounters you've done) the amount of story/patrol missions the game doles out to you begins to dry up with a quickness. At first it's not enough to get you that last bar or two of xp to level. Then story missions dry up when you're halfway through a level. Then you end up only getting 1-2 per level, and the rest is grinding incredibly repetitive Exploration missions that you can only accept once an hour, pvp, or Deep Space Encounters. I've been told that by the 30s, there are some level spans with no missions at all. Just grinding.

Then of course there's the complete lack of content from level 40 until the cap of 50. Not even some slapdash exploration missions. Just barren empty zones. The guy I talked to who's stuck at 42 with no way to advance but grind lower-level stuff has a playtime of about 60 hours. Even somewhat casual players are going to hit that in under three weeks. Granted, this is all better than the Klingons get, which is essentially nothing but pvp to level.

I was definitely considering grabbing this maybe a week after release when some of the biggest server problems calmed down a little, but finding this out certainly delays this for at least a month or three.

That would coincide perfectly with the one free month in the box. But then again, I won't be able to pick this game up till probably the summer anyway.

[koro]

There's supposedly a "day 45" miracle patch post-launch that fills out the missing 25-50 content while simultaneously bringing the currently nonexistent Klingon PvE game up to near-Federation levels.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Shatter]

There's supposedly a "day 45" miracle patch post-launch that fills out the missing 25-50 content while simultaneously bringing the currently nonexistent Klingon PvE game up to near-Federation levels.

I'm not holding my breath.

There will be more OB testing in this game after live then the actual OB...

[Tmon]

That's why I think I'm going to take advantage of the feel trial sometime next fall.  The game should be nearly feature complete by then.

[taolurker]

I got into the OB, and while I haven't put enough time into it I do have the following observation:  space combat seems fun, but why do all of these massive starships have to be so tiny?

Fewer polys and smaller textures are less of a drain on graphics resources?

STO's rendering engine has problems. With my video card fans cranked up high, my card still runs over 70C. The same fan setting at idle runs around 42C, and LotRO with all bells and whistles (a better-looking game, with more stuff on the screen at once) gets up to around 62C.

There's actually a known bug in the renderer that allows video cards to attempt an infinite maxfps, which can result in the video card overheating. I only became aware of it because I was lurking their forums, but this can cause your GPU to overheat/melt.

In game there is a /maxfps command, and if you check this with no modifier it will tell you 0.000 which is it's current setting. You should then retype /maxfps ## (30-70) so that your GPU isn't working overtime.

Link to thread

[taolurker]

Oh yeah, another thing to mock about this game:

[Count Nerfedalot]

Developers in this era will suffer the Blizzard effect.  If a customer comes to your MMO having already experienced WoW, they will expect the same level of polish and craftsmanship in your game.  If your customer didn't come from WoW, it's likely that they will try WoW some time after playing your game and immediately draw comparisons.  It's an unfair comparison given development budgets, but one that new developers must consider in the creation of their product. 

The key is to provide a new experience to players in a stylish and streamlined fashion.  If you can't do that on your budget, then you can't expect much more than recouping your investment through box sales alone.

Er, no, this is a PERFECTLY fair comparison given that Cryptic is charging the same for its vaguely meat flavored tofu as Blizzard charges for steak while marketing them as equivalent.

[tmp]

What I found hilarious in the STO threads about ME2 was the fanboy who claimed that playing STO was exactly like playing Mass Effect, so why bother with Mass Effect. I was among a fairly decent sized group that asked him what drugs he was on and if he'd even played ME.

Dear maker; not sure if there's drugs in this universe which could make STO ground combat feel like ME.

... but if there is i want some of that.

[LK]

Mass Effect's game mechanics were shit. People were ranting and raving over its story and hot pseudo-lesbian Asari.

[Jherad]

Er, no, this is a PERFECTLY fair comparison given that Cryptic is charging the same for its vaguely meat flavored tofu as Blizzard charges for steak while marketing them as equivalent.

Pretty much. I have zero sympathy for companies with a low development budget if they want the same box price and sub fees.

Anyway. Since the last patch, I'm pretty happy with the difficulty level now. A *touch* on the easy side, but I'm having fun, and get some use out of all my abilities now (Commander 1 in a heavy escort). I'd much rather have things slightly too easy than slightly too hard - this is a game. My game. I'm the hero. I'm supposed to feel 'uber'.

I guess the big trick is finding that 'leaning slightly on the easy side' sweet spot for all three archetypes. I suspect many of those who found the original difficulty level ok (or even too easy) were flying cruisers or science ships - I was getting gibbed by lone battleships in a single salvo from 100% shields in solo missions at one point, in my escort.

[Ghambit]

I was getting gibbed by lone battleships in a single salvo from 100% shields in solo missions at one point, in my escort.

With full power to shields, regen on the appropriate side, shield battery pot, shield regen ability, and rotational strategy?  (and a bunch of other available abilities)
Or did you just sit there and take it up the arse? 

[Jherad]

Full power to shields, and regen on the front (in an escort, so I was on a straight attack run).

No time for batteries. I died in a single volley each time it happened. Boom. One shot (actually several, but all hitting in the space of a second or two).

I ended up just doing repeated runs after dying to wear down his hull a little more each time on those missions. Much better now - I can still get fried if I'm caught with my pants down (like forget to divert power from the engines to shields after a long approach) or bite off more than I can chew, but nothing retardedly stupid like before.

[Furiously]

I like how the Klingons start at level six basically.  The game definately could stand a few more weeks of bug fixing/server disconnects.  That being said there are some fun missions. I just got the guardian of forever and got to talk to young Spock.

I don't see the fun lasting a long time, but some of the fleet actions and ground groups are pretty intense - if there is not enough of a server population to support these it's going to be tough to start up later.

[raydeen]

I played a bit of the open beta over the weekend and while I liked it, I don't know that it hooked me. Maybe a few months down the road I'll pick it up. It did come closer to feeling like CoX than CO did. I liked running around rescuing the people on Vega Colony. But it still seemed really buggy. I had to log off/on 3 or 4 times to complete the 'Arm Yourself' quest as it would just break.  I did chuckle when I first beamed down and my avatar was still my starship for a second or two. I was really hoping that would stick as I could then run around like a little toy going 'VROOOOOOM VROOOOOOOOM PEW PEW PEW' :D

My one slight quibble: Why the hell don't the turbo lift doors open? CoX had opening/closing elevator doors. I'm wondering if it was decided that it was best to avoid potential glitching. I remember getting stuck in the CoX elevators sometimes with no way out except to log.

Also, did they get Zachary Quinto to voice the tutorial EMH? Sure sounds like him.

[Jherad]

I just thought the hologram was voiced badly. 

I'm under no illusions that this game will have some long-lasting appeal for me, but I'm pretty sure I'll get a month or two of fun out of it,  maybe more, which makes it worth the box price. CO's beta convinced me of the opposite, so an improvement.

Now, if they can pull a half decent end-game out of their collective arse, they might have me for longer. I'm not holding my breath. All told, considerably better than I had expected, so far - but my expectation was really low.

[tmp]

Mass Effect's game mechanics were shit.

I fail to see the point. All it means is STO ground combat is much worse than even "shit", which is what i was saying.

[tmp]

I got into the OB, and while I haven't put enough time into it I do have the following observation:  space combat seems fun, but why do all of these massive starships have to be so tiny?  I get that these are like our little avatars floating around in space, but I feel they lose some of the, uh, majestic appeal.  I have no idea how they could solve this problem (and I do consider it a problem).  I just want to feel like I'm flying about in a giant fucking ship pulling off sweeping broadside attacks.  Not some little bug attacking a slightly larger bug and whoops I don't appear to be facing the right way anymore because I'm so tiny that I can't really even tell half the time.

Afraid it suffers from the same issue EVE does and, to some extent, also real ship combat -- the ships are 300-500 meters long but they fight over distances 10x that or more. And the camera is pullled back few more kilometers extra so it can give you broad view of the place rather than just your giant ship filling the whole screen. From distances of this magnitude they will look small no matter what.

Perhaps they could fix it to some degree by placing the camera right above the ship bridge as this would give you better sense of the scale of your own ship at least. But the penalty would be limited/obstructed view if you wanted to see stuff below you because of the hull getting in the way.

[Malakili]

I got into the OB, and while I haven't put enough time into it I do have the following observation:  space combat seems fun, but why do all of these massive starships have to be so tiny?  I get that these are like our little avatars floating around in space, but I feel they lose some of the, uh, majestic appeal.  I have no idea how they could solve this problem (and I do consider it a problem).  I just want to feel like I'm flying about in a giant fucking ship pulling off sweeping broadside attacks.  Not some little bug attacking a slightly larger bug and whoops I don't appear to be facing the right way anymore because I'm so tiny that I can't really even tell half the time.

Afraid it suffers from the same issue EVE does and, to some extent, also real ship combat -- the ships are 300-500 meters long but they fight over distances 10x that or more. And the camera is pullled back few more kilometers extra so it can give you broad view of the place rather than just your giant ship filling the whole screen. From distances of this magnitude they will look small no matter what.

Perhaps they could fix it to some degree by placing the camera right above the ship bridge as this would give you better sense of the scale of your own ship at least. But the penalty would be limited/obstructed view if you wanted to see stuff below you because of the hull getting in the way.

I think they could get away with some sort of view/mode which establishes the size.  Like some view you can do while docked that lets you fly your camera around the ship, but the camera is small.  Once the size of the ship has be established as that large, it'll feel that big even in space, and your brain will make sense of the distances involved.   As it stands there is nothing to really differentiate the size of your ship from the size of say, your avatar.

[HaemishM]

Mass Effect's game mechanics were shit. People were ranting and raving over its story and hot pseudo-lesbian Asari.

Other than the Mako, I like Mass Effect's combat mechanics.

[Lantyssa]

I think they could get away with some sort of view/mode which establishes the size.  Like some view you can do while docked that lets you fly your camera around the ship, but the camera is small.  Once the size of the ship has be established as that large, it'll feel that big even in space, and your brain will make sense of the distances involved.   As it stands there is nothing to really differentiate the size of your ship from the size of say, your avatar.

The bugs with your avatar appearing in space and the ship appearing on the ground don't do much to dispel that sense.  Having a high-res "look at my ship" mode would be helpful for this though.

I just thought the hologram was voiced badly. 

It was terrible.  Further, while the initial EMH was based on its programmer who had some issues, at least he had a personality (and probably the best thing about Voyager).  You would think if it became standard then they would want a congenial personality so people have an easier time dealing with it.  Instead the devs thought abrasive cardboard made for a good character to introduce the world to their players?

[Ghambit]

A massive Klingon Fleet is forming near Qo'noS for an invasion into Federation Territory. Klingon Warriors who wish to join this fleet may rendezvous near Qo'noS at 2pm PST (We're GMT -8 right now).

My....God!

[tmp]

Server went down for another "emergency maintenance" couple hours ago. I suppose that's another way to end the beta.

[01101010]

Regardless of how buggy/broken a game is, I always looked forward to end of beta events. One last harumph! before the suck starts. Then again, now that I think about it, I enjoyed server-wide events in online games. Something about the organized chaos that broke away from the monotonous day-to-day chaos always made me smile.

...except for the Bending in PS... fuck that

[Malakili]

Regardless of how buggy/broken a game is, I always looked forward to end of beta events. One last harumph! before the suck starts. Then again, now that I think about it, I enjoyed server-wide events in online games. Something about the organized chaos that broke away from the monotonous day-to-day chaos always made me smile.

...except for the Bending in PS... fuck that

Aside from the horrifying lag at the end of Beta Champions event, the giant robot invasion was pretty awesome.   It actually was more like I envisioned the game to be, super heroes spontaneously grouping up to stop evil doers.  Too bad more stuff like that doesn't happen in Champions all the time or it might have been worth playing.

[Montague]

The STO event is total, epic fail.

Supposed to be a Klingon invasion of Sol. What happens is that a few hundred Klingon players are spread around dozens of instances and warp into Sol one at a time and get insta-ganked by 20 Fed ships, if you can even get on to the server. Head start on Friday is going to be even more epic fail. They don't have the hardware to meet the demand, though today's clusterfuck might handle that.

Edit - Forums say there are Borg cubes running around, but I'm not in any mood to try to kill the SERVER NOT RESPONDING boss.

[01101010]

The STO event is total, epic fail.

Supposed to be a Klingon invasion of Sol. What happens is that a few hundred Klingon players are spread around dozens of instances and warp into Sol one at a time and get insta-ganked by 20 Fed ships, if you can even get on to the server. Head start on Friday is going to be even more epic fail. They don't have the hardware to meet the demand, though today's clusterfuck might handle that.

Edit - Forums say there are Borg cubes running around, but I'm not in any mood to try to kill the SERVER NOT RESPONDING boss.

I was on Sol when the Borg invaded the station... it was mass spawnings of tough borg mobs and some elites. I finally managed to break out of that and get back to my cruiser - warped outta the sector and into subspace. It was interesting how they did the borg there... the spheres and cubes hunted you down and ported you into an instance with cubes and probes and spheres all +30 and up. Quite maddening at first, but my group finally started burning down the probes, then spheres then cubes... but holy shit they hit my cruiser hard.. +38k crits in some places straight through the shields. It was a mix of fun and stupid.

[Tannhauser]

Getting creamed by the borg was getting old so I went off to do a fleet action.  After a long fight we had to face the last Gorn dreadnaught when two Klingon players came in and fought us.  Since one of them was two tiers (lvl 41 or so) higher than us he kept us from completing the mission.  After over an hour in this one mission I quit when it got down to just two of us. 

So nice griefing there assholes, but I must admit it did help me sharpen my pvp skills.  So I flew to DS9 and went into Quark's and ended the beta there.

I pre-ordered the game off Steam, I can get 2-3 months fun off this no problem.

[Montague]

Getting creamed by the borg was getting old so I went off to do a fleet action.  After a long fight we had to face the last Gorn dreadnaught when two Klingon players came in and fought us.  Since one of them was two tiers (lvl 41 or so) higher than us he kept us from completing the mission.  After over an hour in this one mission I quit when it got down to just two of us. 

So nice griefing there assholes, but I must admit it did help me sharpen my pvp skills.  So I flew to DS9 and went into Quark's and ended the beta there.

I pre-ordered the game off Steam, I can get 2-3 months fun off this no problem.

What concerns me is Cryptic's shard system and their server capacity. When the server was running smooth the game was fun, but I could never go more than a couple of hours without server problems. I've preordered but I'm definitely not taking off work this weekend for head start, because it looks to be a mess.

[01101010]

What concerns me is Cryptic's shard system and their server capacity. When the server was running smooth the game was fun, but I could never go more than a couple of hours without server problems. I've preordered but I'm definitely not taking off work this weekend for head start, because it looks to be a mess.

Interestingly, while we were on Sol Station, the devs continued to spawn borg at a much higher rate than what started out. More players showed up and more borg spawned. You could actually see the server start to grind down with a small lag spike at first, then some horrendous rubberbanding at the peak. Seems the devs let that continue for a short bit before they started scaling the number of borg back to which you could feel the server start to breath again. 

The final push was the increased shields and health of the "final" borg push before the server was shut down. Focus fire was the only thing stopping some of those.

[Tannhauser]

Not much of a headstart for me, I'm in a wedding this weekend up in DC. So I'll only get Sun and Monday nights. 

Now time for foolish predictions!
2 mil box sales-It's Star Trek and it will pull inTrekkies, plus it's not a bad game.
Subs drop off sharply after the first month as Cryptic does what they do best, chase subs off.  I say 600k after the first month

Overall I enjoyed my time in beta and learning how to equip and man a starship.  There is so much they can add to this game, especially in exploration and re-visiting classic Trek locales and checking up on the places Kirk, Picard, et al interacted with. 

Live long and proper!  (Vulcan Miss Manners)

[Shatter]

Now time for foolish predictions!
2 mil box sales-It's Star Trek and it will pull inTrekkies, plus it's not a bad game.
Subs drop off sharply after the first month as Cryptic does what they do best, chase subs off.  I say 600k after the first month

 (Vulcan Miss Manners)

You're on crack

[Draegan]

Two million?  You're fucking crazy.

[Modern Angel]

I'll go 500k. Maybe 700k. If AoC and WAR can get about 1mil apiece this can pull down that many.