Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[Malakili]

On the other hand, they could maximize initial box sales by promising lots of good trekie-attracting features and showing pretty pictures and scripted play "samples" right up to release without ever actually letting the unwashed masses in to kick the tires on an open beta of any length.  This would minimize the window through which a bad buzz could escape, while also reducing their chances of actually getting any of the load-dependent functionality right.

Given that this was basically exactly how Champions Online Beta was run, I suspect we can expect more of the same.

[Rishathra]

Klingons and Federation at war just for the sake of two factions is the most retarded shit ever. It would have been infinitely more entertaining to actually watch that happen in a television series with excellent scripting to set the new status quo rather than being some footnote in a third-rate MMO.

To be fair, they did a little more than just add it in as a footnote.

http://www.startrekonline.com/fiction

It's a pretty good read, and goes into a lot of detail about a lot of things.  There's still about seventeen more entries before they're done, too.  The game itself is looking to be a turd, but it won't be because of shitty lore decisions.

[Morat20]

If ever there was a time for a procedural-content design, an exploration-themed ST would be it. Imagine if you had six servers or shards, and on each of them, the galaxy beyond Federation/Klingon space was generated procedurally as players explored outward--so you had six variant Milky Way galaxies developing over time. Lots of potential, good IP for something different.

That'd actually be pretty awesome.

Assuming the game didn't suck donkey balls, of course.

You could do a lot there -- random nasty civilizations, elder tech, civilizations you can try to bring "into the fold" of your faction (through economic, diplomatic, or military means), resource nodes and terraformable planets.

You could have a centralized data point for your faction, indicating newly discovered civiliations that need diplmatic and trade missions to try to convince to join up or ally with you -- other places where new resources or tech have been dsicovered, needing science vessels and resource extraction teams. Hostile locations and militant aliens that require your more militaristic captains to handle.

You could do a lot with that. Wars would occur naturally, from NPC aliens to struggles over vital resource areas or rich systems or just lack of room to expand.

[Triforcer]

That would be cool IF the planets generated were persistent.  If they are just private and instanced, you aren't really "exploring" anything.  But yeah, create hundreds of new worlds a year and then have the borg randomly explode various sectors so the size doesn't get too unmanageable. 

What's sad is that even though I know this will be unbelievably shitty, I am still playing at launch. 

[Khaldun]

Yes, I think you'd need procedurally-generated planets to be persistent and public. So you'd need a brake of some kind of just scrambling to open the galaxy up, but that's readily doable in an MMO format. (Say, very long 'crafting time' to reach beyond systems where Fed/Klingons had support base, and an absolute limit to exploration range until your command structure 'authorizes' further expeditions; big risks to going to the outer range of exploration vs. solid rewards for exploring the whole of a planetary system that's in closer to established space). If you had the game working around each faction needing to collaborate to build up bases and facilities on explored planets, you'd give everyone a reason to work together within a faction. Plus you could seed the procedural content with some bad as well as good surprises: plagues, dangerous NPC enemy races like Tholians or Borg, alien supercomputers, space hazards of various kinds, etc...if you lose an exploration-qualified ship, you get busted back to working a support-ship that has to stay closer to the core areas of your faction.

I can really see a design like this working. I can see that this was a good IP for it. I can see that Cryptic in its present state is the least likely house on Earth to handle anything even remotely off-formula. I can see that the dummies who sold them the license are probably going to regret it: whatever the box sales, it's going to implode spectacularly and whimper off into tiny sub-land when it's clearly an IP that could command fanatic loyalty if you bottled some aspect of what makes the IP attractive in the actual gameplay of a persistent MMO.

And so it goes in MMO-land, where money goes not to die, but to starve and whimper in the corner picking at leprous scabs.

[UnSub]

The design promise has been persistent, procedurally generated locations using the Genesis System; how it will work in reality is anyone's guess.

[Malakili]

The design promise has been persistent, procedurally generated locations using the Genesis System; how it will work in reality is anyone's guess.

If they deliver on this, I WILL play this game, seriously.  But somehow I doubt it.  Its kind of like "The Omega System" in Champions.  It sonded really neat on paper, but in reality its 5 randomly generated daily quests based on templates that get repetitive in less than a week. (6 daily quests if you complete all 5 and then turn in your doodads for a key to a 5man randomly generated daily quest, that slightly increases your total rewards for the day).

[Nebu]

This game is looking more and more like a polished version of Matrix Online.  If they even make it up to Tabula Rasa standards, I'll be surprised. 

[VainEldritch]

First check for me on the new "Starship Tactics" video... wow! Tank! DPS! Debuffer! 

/cavernous yawn

I'll stick with EVE thanks... ok I'd stick with EVE even if Craptic did something interesting and innovative with ship-to-ship, but I was rather underwhelmed as much by the lackluster commentary as by the paucity of information imparted. It would be nice to have an ST universe where despite the pending Klingon/Federation war I'd have Roddenberry's optimistic take on the future of man to hide in when the grim "reality" of EVE's cut-throat (-and-disembowel-and-bugger-your-still-twitching-corpse) deliciously cynical game play makes me sick (but it's a good, clean sickness that just have to have more of).

So far all a bit "ho-hum" unfortunately.

[Malakili]

First check for me on the new "Starship Tactics" video... wow! Tank! DPS! Debuffer! 

Yeah, that part was by far the most disappointing part of that video.

[Soln]

Was this posted yet?

"...or maybe file a Captain's Log."

truer words?

[tazelbain]

You guys must be masochists to continue to follow this failure parade.

[Nebu]

You guys must be masochists to continue to follow this failure parade.

They're just MMO rubbernecking. 

[NowhereMan]

Oh God, the lore is actually quite interesting. I know the game is going to be awful and that any hope associated with this project is doomed but I'm going to pay enough attention to see whether there is any chance for it purely because I've found the lore entertaining. Sadly everything else about this game just screams run while you still can.

[Sir T]

You guys must be masochists to continue to follow this failure parade.

Sadists might be a closer term 

[Malakili]

You know whats going to kill this game for me, no matter what. Every time there I do anything I am going to think "I liked how EVE did this better." I  just KNOW this is how its going to go for me.

I know its not supposed to be remotely in competition with EVE, but my brain is going to do it anyway.

[LK]

This game is going to be nothing like EVE save for space ships.

Seriously.

It's like comparing WoW and EVE.

[Malakili]

This game is going to be nothing like EVE save for space ships.

Seriously.

It's like comparing WoW and EVE.

I am WELL aware of this fact, and yet I know I am going to do it.

[Morat20]

I think the biggest mistake is trying to fit this into the standard DIKU model. It's just not going to work, and Trekkies are probably a bad fit for it in the first place (they seem to be a mix between the Star Fleet Battles nerds and the 'I wanna live in the Federation/Klingon Empire" roleplaying types -- SimBeru crowd, so to speak).

You could probably do a pretty good combo of a fighting and crafting game. Let the fighter discover new systems, clean out pirates, contest the Neutral zones, and play in 'battle simulations'. Crafters then move into the new systems, using economics and diplomacy to move them towards their faction's side, culminating in guilds or even individual crafters creating bases, terraforming planets, creating research habitats, and basically boosting their faction while also forming as a base for new exploration.

Progress results in reputation points -- fighters get better ships, upgrades, better crews, even NPC fleets to head up for deep raids or war simulations or hostile NPC races. Crafters get terraforming equipment to create new resource areas (more scientists working under them, more manufacturing, whatever), better resources, cheaper parts, whatever to continue pushing their faction forward.

[Mrbloodworth]

BRIDGES!   

[LK]

That video looks absolutely terrible especially from an animation standpoint. The avatars on the bridge were idling in front of consoles in a stock standing animation. Most of the animations looked very robotic and unnatural anyway.

One thing I sort of admire about Age of Conan and I think LOTRO and Burning Sea is that the NPCs oftentimes looked like they were IN the environment they were in (working, playing, doing custom animations). Never would that be more important than on the bridge of a starship. It shouldn't be treated like a social common area for NPCs. That there was so much open space instead of being designed somewhat logically how a bridge would gave me a harsh reaction aesthetically.

[Nebu]

I used to like the NPCs in CoH.  They were all walking around and waving as you flew by.  Then I happened to take a stroll along one wall of Independence Port where there were about a million NPCs all walking and waving with no reason to be there.  It really gets ruined quickly if they aren't maintained in a way that keeps with the atmosphere. 

That video needs to be removed.  It's not doing this title any good at all.  The animations are terrible.  The scenery looks flat.  It just makes an already laughable game look worse. 

[Ingmar]

The ship stuff still looks pretty, which makes the contrast with the terrible away team animations all the worse. I don't think the scenery looks bad, but I'm kind of tired of giant mushrooms.

[Nebu]

The ship stuff still looks pretty, which makes the contrast with the terrible away team animations all the worse. I don't think the scenery looks bad, but I'm kind of tired of giant mushrooms.

I should have been more specific.  The bridge scenes look terrible.  I also don't like any of the away team combat.  The ship to ship stuff seems better.  It makes me wonder if we're just seeing another PotBS fiasco.  Good ship to ship combat ruined by the addition of avatars and ground combat. 

[Ingmar]

Auto Assault too. 

But I think I'm the only person who actually liked that game. DIKU cars vroom vroom!

[Nebu]

Auto Assault too. 

But I think I'm the only person who actually liked that game. DIKU cars vroom vroom!

I like what it was trying to do (I always loved the game ReVolt).  I was just bummed out by the actual implementation. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Apparently Klingon batleths got nerfed to the point it takes 5-20 direct hits with one to kill, while red shirts are now overpowered requiring more than one hit to kill despite only having a last name.

[NowhereMan]

So the hugely customisable starship bridges look like they're going to be two or three stock bridges with the ability to pick different palettes going by that video (perhaps with the potential for swapping out tactical stations for science ones that looks subtly different!). I could be judging too harshly, maybe there's much more available but yeah... they looked poorly designed and seemed to only be two different designs with some colour differences. That was on top of the lack of animation and has been said they're just great big spaces. Even TNG didn't seem to have that much empty space on the bridge.

[Sjofn]

Auto Assault too. 

But I think I'm the only person who actually liked that game. DIKU cars vroom vroom!

Hey, I liked it too. :(

[Kovacs]

Hated it.   I was soooo looking to revist my Car Wars PnP days.  How do you make a care game that.... **Fake Edit** Yeah, I guess Auto Assault made that list  pretty long.  Still ;..;

[Venkman]

Heh, I think the car combat in Borderlands turned out better than AA. But AA could have been a fun diversion if they didn't force you into the avatar game. That stills is the example of what not to do for every game that tries it.

[Triforcer]

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/web_exclusive/star_trek_online_interview?page=0%2C2

Page 3 of that interview seems to indicate that "exploration" content is just instanced crap.  Count me out. 

[Malakili]

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/web_exclusive/star_trek_online_interview?page=0%2C2

Page 3 of that interview seems to indicate that "exploration" content is just instanced crap.  Count me out. 

It uses the same engine as Champions. EVERYTHING is going to be pretty much just instanced crap if that is any indication.

[tkinnun0]

I think the biggest mistake is trying to fit this into the standard DIKU model.

It's based on episodic TV shows. Each episode has one or two quest-chains and when the credits roll Picard gains a level. It's a perfect fit.

[Mrbloodworth]

Sorry, this has nothing to do with anything, and it is base. But I thought it was funny, thought I would share.



I can't think of anything more anti-Star Trek than internet gamers. I may sub just for this!