Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[Cyrrex]

whatever you decided was "Jedi-like" behavior within the terms of the game system.

Judging from the prequels, Jedi-like behaviour is acting like a smug prick to everyone who isn't a Jedi and generally emo-ing up the place. So SWG may have been successful in that regard.

Yeah, for sure. The prequels make the Jedi look like serious assholes. In some alternate universe, Lucas would have actually meant to do that, so as to show that their fall was at least partly their own fault. In this universe, I don't think Lucas has a clue that's how it ended up coming off. But the Jedi of the prequels could be really well represented in MMO terms--they're basically poopsock raider hardcores. "lolz jango fett u n00b..."

It's something probably more attributable to EU authors and a bit of retconning, but the Jedi causing their own downfall pretty much is the official canon.  If you piece the whole thing together, which is something only a massive dork like me can probably do, the Jedi fear of attachment and their general arrogance is what led to their demise.

/end derail

[WindupAtheist]

It's something probably more attributable to EU authors and a bit of retconning, but the Jedi causing their own downfall pretty much is the official canon.  If you piece the whole thing together, which is something only a massive dork like me can probably do, the Jedi fear of attachment and their general arrogance is what led to their demise.

I'll quote this into the existing Star Wars thread to avoid furthering a derail, but come on, it didn't require much piecing together as long as you watched the movies with the sound on.

[UnSub]

Star Trek Online to still launch in early 2010 - Atari would like it before March 31 2010, please.

Even if closed beta launched tomorrow - and it would appear that STO is in alpha now - that still only gives 6 months of testing until launch.

Looks like they are also going with a procedural content system called the Genesis System, of which little is known but it could almost be procedurally generated based on player parameters.

This could end up being a teleporter accident of a MMO.

[Khaldun]

Six months is serious lol lol territory. Explains why Champions' patching is apparently being done by the folks who come in every night to clean up the wastepaper baskets, though: they must be pulling all hands on deck to try and at least approximate the deadline.

[bhodi]

Sounds like SOMEONE's never read the mythical man month.

[WindupAtheist]

Nobody ever learns. I mean I can sorta understand something like NC pushing Tabula Rasa out the door because, fuck, it needed to come out eventually and Garriot had been flushing money down the toilet for eons. But this? March? Why not tack another six months on there and have it out for Q4 2010 in much more playable shape?

[Ghambit]

This was a game where a lot of the work had already been done by Perpetual and most of the tools are already in place (engine, etc).  It's not like they're devving totally from scratch.  Also, as we've seen, it's a pretty vanilla game design... nothing overtly complex and in this day and age I'd like to think they could chunk out a quality game in much less time than games 3 years ago.  That being said, the testing of said game is another matter and one that Cryptic doesnt seem too adept at doing.

[Merusk]

Nah, they know they can't beat Blizzard so they're going the old school SOE route.  Ship it, make the idiot fanboys pay for the patches and build it up from there.  Hell, even SWG is still going with 7 servers, years after the "cataclysmic" changes that drove most of the player base away.   Mr. Barnum was entirely correct.

[Venkman]

This was a game where a lot of the work had already been done by Perpetual and most of the tools are already in place (engine, etc).  It's not like they're devving totally from scratch.  Also, as we've seen, it's a pretty vanilla game design... nothing overtly complex and in this day and age I'd like to think they could chunk out a quality game in much less time than games 3 years ago.  That being said, the testing of said game is another matter and one that Cryptic doesnt seem too adept at doing.

Err, you sure that anything PE did applies to the game Cryptic is shipping? Yes on the vanilla/non-innovative-low-risk decisions they've made. But from what I recall, about the only thing that could be inherited was the forum community. And that only because they'd freely register for any new forum that was linked to an eventual (read: maybe) game.

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Nah, they know they can't beat Blizzard so they're going the old school SOE route.  Ship it, make the idiot fanboys pay for the patches and build it up from there.  Hell, even SWG is still going with 7 servers, years after the "cataclysmic" changes that drove most of the player base away.   Mr. Barnum was entirely correct.

SWG has 13 active servers and the closure of the other 12 happens on Oct 15th.

[Merusk]

13 from 25?  Crap there were moer than I thought.  Which sort of underscores that people will pay for "shit" with a license.

[UnSub]

This was a game where a lot of the work had already been done by Perpetual and most of the tools are already in place (engine, etc).  It's not like they're devving totally from scratch.  Also, as we've seen, it's a pretty vanilla game design... nothing overtly complex and in this day and age I'd like to think they could chunk out a quality game in much less time than games 3 years ago.  That being said, the testing of said game is another matter and one that Cryptic doesnt seem too adept at doing.

Although Cryptic bought the rights to STO off PE, it is open to debate exactly how much of the mechanics they retained and how many they added / changed. Away team combat wasn't in the PE version iirc.

They are also building it on an existing engine, which helps cut down on development time. What they can't cut down on is art and design time.

And testing. ChampO was in at least 10 months of player testing, through alpha / closed beta / open beta / launch. On one hand, they started testing too early, with only two zones and powers without full powers + stats + items implemented, but those early zones provided a lot of critical design feedback that was implemented into and improved later zones. On the other hand, the scheduling of testing - 2 - 3 days a week - might have helped them with load testing but is directly responsible for things like the launch day patch and the economy patch post-launch.

If STO starts its closed beta with 90% of all systems and content implemented and expanded testing times (they can always pull servers down for a week for a special load testing session if they need it) then maybe six months is enough. But I don't think that will be the case. I can already see at least one delay to mid-2010 or potentially one of the most reviled launches in MMO history.

The only reason I can see around the lack of testing is money. Public testing costs a lot and perhaps the idea of a 'paid beta' for the first six months of launch is perceived as an acceptable trade-off. Personally I'd disagree, but then I also don't have an entire company to run and people to keep employed.

[Khaldun]

Nah, they know they can't beat Blizzard so they're going the old school SOE route.  Ship it, make the idiot fanboys pay for the patches and build it up from there.  Hell, even SWG is still going with 7 servers, years after the "cataclysmic" changes that drove most of the player base away.   Mr. Barnum was entirely correct.

Yup. Read the Champions online forums for a parade of the customers they're fishing for.

"Have you ever tried making an MMO? No? Then shut the fuck up, because it's completely normal to break the game with a patch. WoW had some bugs when it launched. This game is so innovative it doesn't need content." etc. If you run a tight enough ship on the cost side, I expect you can make it back on boxes plus a couple months of subscriptions, anything past that point is gravy. The break-even probably involves either spending too much pre-box ship or not quite getting enough people after launch to make it worth much after that. The only time you're really fucked is when you spend a lot of money because you honestly think you're competing with WoW, in all likelihood.

[Kageh]

Yup. Read the Champions online forums for a parade of the customers they're fishing for.

"Have you ever tried making an MMO? No? Then shut the fuck up, because it's completely normal to break the game with a patch. WoW had some bugs when it launched. This game is so innovative it doesn't need content."

Not to forget the beta will be filled with armies of "This is beta, it's supposed to be not working. And out of content. And suck. But there's the miracle patch somewhere that will save us all. And I know that because I have huge and self-taught experience in software engineering and can spell out the word 'beta' so shut up." 'beta testers'. Other than that, spot-on synopsis, you really managed to sum up most MMO forums with those few sentences - and it really isn't Cryptic/CO forum specific. It's the same with AION, Warhammer and whatever else.

But isn't that today's average MMO customer?  Drones sucking up to some weird ideal of conformity and anticipatory obedience. Those are the guys that will give ST:O feedback. The "original series" ST fan crowd is in their sixties, the Next Generation or DS9 viewer is somewhere in his mid-thirties or -forties, most likely already having played an MMO or two, since we're talking SF interested people here with an above average affinity for computers. They're not target audience for ST:O.

[Malakili]

Not to forget the beta will be filled with armies of "This is beta, it's supposed to be not working. And out of content. And suck. But there's the miracle patch somewhere that will save us all.

Honestly, it depends on when the release is.  When I was in Fallen Earth Alpha, and early Beta, the game was nigh unplayable for me at points, but at that point it really WAS early.  The problem is, at some point that progress really does need to be made, and you often here the same thing by the time OPEN beta comes around.

[Mrbloodworth]

Crew is basically a ship statistic representing your ships "red shirts" and the amount of crew your ship has determines the efficiency with which a variety of tasks are performed. Crew will be required for repairing hull or subsystem damage, repelling boarding parties, attacking on boarding operations (which have now been revealed to serve the function of damaging an enemy ships subsystems), and more. The amount of crew you have on hand will determine how effective they are at performing these tasks, and they can be injured or killed in battle. Crew members that are injured will become unavailable until they are fully healed in your ships sick bay, and the rate at which they are healed and put back into service is dependent on your ships medical equipment and your Science Officers' skills.

Each ship class can hold a different amount of crew, with the smallest ships being able to hold as little as 50 crew, while large cruisers can hold crew of up to 1,000.

Details on the Bridge Officers role in gameplay are a bit less specific, though we are assured they will play a "key role" in ship operations. Each ship will have a variety of stations of different types available to it, with different ship classes favoring differing focuses on their allotment of stations. For example, a Science vessel may be comprised of mostly Science stations, while  Escort ships focus on Tactical stations, and Cruisers on Engineering stations.

Naturally, a Science Officer can only man a Science station and so forth. There is another caveat, however. Each station will also have a maximum rank associated with it, and a Bridge Officer accessing a station that is lower ranked than he is will only be able to utilize his skills earned up to the rank of the station. For example, a Science officer at Commander rank would only be able to access his skills up to the Lieutenant rank if he accesses a Lieutenant ranked station.

I read this as crew = some form of power/health bar. Officers = sloted skills.

[Malakili]

I read this as crew = some form of power/health bar. Officers = sloted skills.

From what I've seen, this is a pretty accurate summary of this game.  There is a lot of smoke and mirrors to make normal run of the mill MMO mechanics seem more 'Star Treky" so some of the stuff looks innovative at first glance, but the more I see of the game, the more it makes me think they are going way out of their way just to hide the fact that they are actually doing nothing original.

[Goreschach]

Endurance is basically a character statistic representing your characters "action capability" and the amount of endurance your character has determines the efficiency with which a variety of skills can be used. Endurance will be required for healing damage and injuries, casting spells, resisting spells(which have now been revealed to cause injury debuffs), and more. The amount of endurance you have on hand will determine how effective you are at using these skills, and endurance can be drained in battle. Endurance is lost until it is regenerated using your endurance regeneration statistic, and the rate at which endurance is regenerated is dependent on your +end regen gear and your regen skill.

Each character class has a different amout of endurance, with the smallest characters having as little as 50 endurance, while larger characters have up to 1,000.

Details on the players role in gameplay are a bit less specific, though we are assured they will play a "key role" in combat control. Each character will have a variety of skill trees of different types available to it, with different character classes favoring different focuses on their allotment of skills. For example, a mage character may be trained in mostly magic schools, while guard characters focus on defensive skills, and berserkers focus on combat augmentations.

Naturally, a magic skill point can only be used to train a magic school, and so forth. There is another caveat, however. Each school will also have a maximum level associated with it, and a player accessing a skill tree that is lower level than he is will only be able to utilitize his skills earned up to the level of the skill tree. For example, a mage character at commander level would only be able to cast his spells up to the lieutenant level if he casts a lieutenant ranked spell.

[Lantyssa]

Er, wrong game?

[HaemishM]

Find/replace function fail. 

[tmp]

That just seems like plain acknowledgment Star Trek technology is advanced enough to be indistinguishable

[Malakili]

http://www.startrekonline.com/node/458

We're happy to announce that we've entered Close Beta as of today, October 22!

If you've signed up, keep an eye on your email, as we'll periodically be inviting people to join in and share their feedback. Additionally, if you look to the right of the page, the "Closed Beta" application graphic will change to indicate you've been accepted, if you've in fact been accepted. (It'll read "ACCEPTED" in big, bold letters.)

If you haven't signed up yet, head on over to the preview application, create an account if you haven't and sign up!

[Mandrel]

We're happy to announce that we've entered Close Beta as of today, October 22!

As opposed to Far Beta?

[tmp]

As opposed to Far Beta?

As in "close to launch, god or anyone help us" beta.

[Malakili]

As opposed to Far Beta?

As in "close to launch, god or anyone help us" beta.

  You might be right!

Seriously though, there is talk about this game coming out in february, and I haven't seen shit that looks like a game yet besides some spaceships flying around shooting each other.

[Simond]

As opposed to Far Beta?

As in "close to launch, god or anyone help us" beta.

Ah, but what does God need with a starship?

[raydeen]

As opposed to Far Beta?

As in "close to launch, god or anyone help us" beta.

Ah, but what does God need with a starship?

He's getting up there in years and it's hard for him to get around now. It would be like one of those scootie chairs for senior citizens.

[Ghambit]

As opposed to Far Beta?

As in "close to launch, god or anyone help us" beta.

  You might be right!

Seriously though, there is talk about this game coming out in february, and I haven't seen shit that looks like a game yet besides some spaceships flying around shooting each other.

For Cryptic, that may be all they need.

[Kageru]

Good to see they are solidifying their company tradition of half-assed beta's. I wonder if this game will also be offering free weekends for cancelled accounts a month after release.

Amusing nerd rage on the champions forums though where those who bought life time subscriptions on the promise of priority access to the STO closed beta are wondering how it started without them. With some nice fanning the flames from the STO developer.

[23:35] <~bizarro_rekhan> Daeke, at one point, said folks who bought the CO lifetime and six-month subs would get into closed beta first.
[23:35] <~bizarro_rekhan> This was before anyone actually made any decisions in that regard.
[23:35] <~bizarro_rekhan> He actually made this post on the Champs boards, but it got quoted on the STO boards.

[Lantyssa]

Bwahahahaha.  This is going to be more delicious than Champions.

[Bzalthek]

I'm beginning to think the word schadenfreude was invented specifically for you.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but still...

[Rishathra]

Man, this is starting to bum me out.  I was genuinely excited for this game for no other reason than I was thoroughly enjoying the "Path to 2409" updates.  They managed to create some very interesting lore development, enough that I was completely uninterested in actual game play information.  The more I hear about the game itself, the worse I feel.

[Malakili]

 The more I hear about the game itself, the worse I feel.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about this game.

[Lantyssa]

I'm beginning to think the word schadenfreude was invented specifically for you.

Heh.  It's very specific.  Watching people that should know better have their dreams crushed when things turn out pretty much as they were warned does give me a giggle.  At least when it comes to trivial things such as entertainment.  (And yes, I have laughed at my own stupidity when I fell prey to it.)

[Ghambit]

So uhh, since this game is destined for suckage... let's all get together and make our our Trek MUSH!  Who's with me!?