Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[eldaec]

The problem with team-based ships is that PUGs could become exercises in frustration as your Weapons Officer refuses to raise the shields or your Security Officer goes afk just before the ship gets boarded. Puzzle Pirates kind of solved this issue by having a lot of positions available for players of all levels. Star Trek generally doesn't have 8 Chief Security Officers, 5 Head Doctors, 8 Chief Engineers and then any more than 2 people standing around being useless (the Wesley and Troi positions), nor does it have its specialised officers generally flipping into other roles at the drop of a hat.

You must have been watching a different Star Trek.

This sounds exactly like the Star Trek I watched. Only half the 8 security officers would be infected by an alien disease/entity/android/god in any given week and actively working against you.

[Venkman]

I think we all like the concept of a ship with multiple playable ports. But even in SWG:JTL, you basically had your pilot, various gunners, and then occasionally someone manning gear. Like the whole of Puzzle Pirates, not being part of the pew pew action turns off players much faster than being part of even a semi-crappy combat system. Minigames always sound better on paper until you realize the difference between someone who lives to play a casual online game in spurts and someone who plays an MMO for hours on end. Even if the aggregate investment is comparable, the momentary type of experience is different enough to have caused the very different market places that exist.

To make Engineering "fun" for an MMO player is to have the same challenge most developers gave up on long ago in making crafting fun. Some activities were destined to forever be background support roles in the big budget games, because they're fundamentally unappealing for the majority of players that have long proven a desire to be out there fighting things.

Will console and PC players be on the same servers?
There is nothing technologically keeping us from making it so.

I'm sure they meant that in general internet parlance, there is nothing preventing two devices talking to a hub from talking to each other. But beyond that, the devil's in the details. I'd really love to see how a cross-device MMO could work without either requiring a keyboard for the console or voicechat for the PC user. That is the technical separation I'm more interested in.

[Trippy]

I'm sure they meant that in general internet parlance, there is nothing preventing two devices talking to a hub from talking to each other. But beyond that, the devil's in the details. I'd really love to see how a cross-device MMO could work without either requiring a keyboard for the console or voicechat for the PC user. That is the technical separation I'm more interested in.

FF XI.

Also

[Venkman]

Heh, I assume you've played FFXI on a PC. I should have "a good cross-device MMO".

However, to your other point, does that chatpad actually exist? The only reason I lasted 45 minutes in FFXI was because of Logitech's own version of that (image cropped odd, didn't want to embed).

[Trippy]

Xbox 360 Text Messaging Kit

I have indeed played FF XI on the PC. If the death penalty and the grind wasn't so crushingly painful I might still be playing it today (well probably not), even with the console-style UI.

[LK]

I thought it would make my life easier. It hasn't. Typing is a bitch on that thing.

[Venkman]

How big is it? Like, is it a thumb typewriter like a Blackberry or something you'd put on your lap to hunt and peck at? They sell them at major retailers or is it online-only? I'm going to pick one up. Because.

[Margalis]

Because the FFXI servers are both Japanese and English FFXI also has a ton of stock phrases you can bring up. Obviously that's not the same as just chatting freely but it's far and away the best implementation. It also has auto-complete so creating sentences doesn't take a lot of key presses.

[Trippy]

How big is it? Like, is it a thumb typewriter like a Blackberry or something you'd put on your lap to hunt and peck at? They sell them at major retailers or is it online-only? I'm going to pick one up. Because.

Umm...it's the size of the controller. Look at the picture again.

[slog]

What races will we be able to play?
The plan is Human, Vulcan, Andorian, Klingon, Orion, Gorn, and several others. You will also be able to create your own race with its own custom look and attributes.

In other words, race doesn't matter.  You just move some sliders around at character creation.

Will everyone be the Captain of their own ship?
Yes, but you will have to earn the responsibility and skill to command larger and more powerful vessels. Remember, in Star Trek as well as naval tradition, whoever commands the ship is the "Captain," even if it is not your current rank.

Ranks are levels! Ships are level restricted! Same shit as always!

Can I play something other than a Captain like a Doctor or an Engineer?
Everyone is a Captain, (remember, if you command a ship, you are automatically a Captain), and you will command a crew, but that does not limit your role. Your character will still be able to choose from a variety of career paths, such as Engineer, Tactical Officer, Doctor, Science Officer, etc. Your career path is your root, and will affect your skills, and how you command your crew. Consider Jean-Luc Picard, Beverly Crusher, Worf and Kathryn Janeway. Picard was an archeologist and diplomat, Crusher was a doctor, Worf a security/tactical officer, and Janeway was a scientist. Each eventually chose a career in command and became ship captains. This does not mean the game will limit your ship choices based on your profession – far from it. The examples are simply an example of how the game design was inspired.

We love Wow Skill trees

How will I be able to play with my friends?
In space, you can form teams and do missions together. Space battles will occur between multiple player and NPC vessels. When you do a ground mission, the mission owner can build an away team that consists of other players. Outside of combat, there will be numerous community building features, locations, hubs and events that will bring players together.

AWAY TEAM NEEDS HEALZ FOR INSTANCE!

Will console and PC players be on the same servers?
We would like that to be the case. There is nothing technologically keeping us from making it so.

SURE WHY NOT!! CONSOLES ARE JUST FANCY PCs! No difference at all!

Will there be realistic travel times in space?
Travel times will be semi-realistic, with a focus on fun. Space is big, and it can take a very long time to travel great distances. That travel time can be impractically long. We will introduce transwarp conduit technology and worm holes to allow players to travel to distant sectors of the galaxy without needing days or weeks of gameplay to do so.

Does it break Canon to have 65 warp gates, err wormholes around earth?  Maybe!

[Venkman]

That was one of the things I did remember liking. Not only could you have menu-based chat like you see in something like Webkinz, your text would be converted to the other language, sorta text universal chat if I recall correct. A great idea I wish there was more of.

Umm...it's the size of the controller. Look at the picture again.

Hrm, so it is. I didn't see the slotting of the pad. At first pass it looks like a widened controller. So much for a product design background...

Does it break Canon to have 65 warp gates, err wormholes around earth?  Maybe!

30+ years after Janeway shows back up from Delta Quadrant with detailed stats on Slipstream techology*? Sure, why the heck not? Starfleet would probably love to reduce the size, and therefore crew, and therefore risk on their aircraft carrier/battleships. Put the tech back on the origin and destination, and what remains is a ship that needs less of everything (within reason of course, ya still gotta plan for if the gates go down). Something's always going to go wrong with a Swiss Army knife.

* I deduct props from Cryptic for instead using the failed-tech that was Transwarp. Slipstream would have been geek cred++.

[ajax34i]

That thing in the picture above is missing about 12 Function keys, a whole numpad, ctrl, tab, tilde...  That's like not having bars for your abilities.  Ugh.

[Koyasha]

The create your own race thing is kinda interesting.  Probably going to play out something like MOO2's custom races, though.  And odds are good that race features are either going to be so meaningless as to be totally irrelevant (like in all other MMO's, with the exception of the occasional race-unique special ability) or a couple of those features are going to be so powerful EVERYONE will have them.

This could be a good game.  I don't know.  Not a good Star Trek game of course, since that's pretty much impossible for reasons already expounded upon in this thread.  But a good game?  Yeah, I dunno, maybe.  SWG might have been a good game (not a good Star Wars game, but a good game) if not for the technical issues, then the CU, NGE, etc.

[Simond]

The create your own race thing is kinda interesting.  Probably going to play out something like MOO2's custom races, though.  And odds are good that race features are either going to be so meaningless as to be totally irrelevant (like in all other MMO's, with the exception of the occasional race-unique special ability) or a couple of those features are going to be so powerful EVERYONE will have them.

'Creative' was just a little overpowered, wasn't it. 

This could be a good game.  I don't know.  Not a good Star Trek game of course, since that's pretty much impossible for reasons already expounded upon in this thread.  But a good game?  Yeah, I dunno, maybe.  SWG might have been a good game (not a good Star Wars game, but a good game) if not for the technical issues, then the CU, NGE, etc.

The absolute best we can hope for is for STO to play "WoW" to EVE's "EQ" but I sincerely doubt that's going to happen, especially with the Ship combat!/Away missions! split.

[eldaec]

<Stuff suggesting this is EQ-but-in-space>

Of course it is EQ in space. Cryptic have openly said they are building it off of their already working EQ-but-not-in-space game.

Cryptic's entire reason to exist is to iterate the EQ model and add more fun.

They did pretty well with CoX - which is easily has the most fun combat of any EQ genre product out there, and CO is quite evidently being built as CoX2. I'm interested to see what happens when they change the setting, but it isn't worth getting knickers in a twist about Cryptic being an outfit that simply attempts to add fun to the EQ model. That's just what they do.

STO will be CoX in space, in 2010.

The console thing is obviously a bit of a worry because of the limitations it puts on the PC version, but Cryptic have to work around that for CO anyway. /shrug

[eldaec]

The create your own race thing is kinda interesting.  Probably going to play out something like MOO2's custom races, though.

My guess is that create-your-own-monster will play out more like CoX's model.

The existing races will just have fewer customisation/colour options.

I suspect the amount of variation in stats/skills between races will be a lot less than in MOO2. I wouldn't be surprised if there are no character stats at all in the final version beyond level/rank, archetype/profession, and powers/skill-choices.

[Margalis]

I think the Star Trek IP is fabulous for an MMO, one of the best. Just not a standard DIKU. Going on away-team missions to phaser-fight with oil slick monsters is not a good idea.

Make a game where you explore, terraform worlds, trade and negotiate while a giant war between the different factions looms. (Or is ongoing)

Instead of playing as a person you would play as an empire like in MOO2. These empires would be aligned with the different factions. Each player would have a feelt of ships, trade with friends, seek out new worlds and new civilizations, etc etc.

Basically a big MMO simulation game. You start with one planet, if you discover a new one you can terraform, colonize, etc. Other players can fight you for it or jointly settle or whatever...do battles like an RTS or some sort of Urban Dead mechanism.

Kind of like what Spore is doing where each planet has it's own population.

Think outside the Borg cube.

[Trippy]

I think the Star Trek IP is fabulous for an MMO, one of the best. Just not a standard DIKU. Going on away-team missions to phaser-fight with oil slick monsters is not a good idea.

Make a game where you explore, terraform worlds, trade and negotiate while a giant war between the different factions looms. (Or is ongoing)

I seem to recall another Sci-Fi MMORPG game going the "Sim" route rather than the pure "pew pew pew" route.

[Venkman]

I think the Star Trek IP is fabulous for an MMO, one of the best. Just not a standard DIKU. Going on away-team missions to phaser-fight with oil slick monsters is not a good idea.

Make a game where you explore, terraform worlds, trade and negotiate while a giant war between the different factions looms. (Or is ongoing)

The die was cast the moment PE got the license and then hired someone to go design it. It was reset when Cryptic took over. Whatever STO could be is unfortunately irrelevant to the EQ-in-space DIKU it was always going to be.

Star Trek for the Trek fans would be good as you described. Star Trek for the masses though, well, Paramount's idea of that we'll see in the next movie I suppose. I imagine there'll be a lot more action, a lot more grit, a lot less diplomacy and a lot less high-minded concepts. Trek needed to get away from that latter bit because it worked for the optimistic 80s but really felt tired and stale by the cynical 90s. And was way off in the 00s. Enterprise showed they at least got it mentally. They just couldn't deliver it.

[Numtini]

This sounds absolutely dismal.

[UnSub]

Basically a big MMO simulation game. You start with one planet, if you discover a new one you can terraform, colonize, etc. Other players can fight you for it or jointly settle or whatever...do battles like an RTS or some sort of Urban Dead mechanism.

Doesn't the (oft-ignored) Prime Directive stop this kind of thing?

[eldaec]

Not if you aren't Star Fleet. Anyhow, it's the future.

[Trippy]

If you are terraforming and colonizing the planet then presumably there isn't a pre-exisiting civilization on it, which is what the Prime Directive applies to. If there is, well sucks to be them then

[UnSub]

The problem with team-based ships is that PUGs could become exercises in frustration as your Weapons Officer refuses to raise the shields or your Security Officer goes afk just before the ship gets boarded. Puzzle Pirates kind of solved this issue by having a lot of positions available for players of all levels. Star Trek generally doesn't have 8 Chief Security Officers, 5 Head Doctors, 8 Chief Engineers and then any more than 2 people standing around being useless (the Wesley and Troi positions), nor does it have its specialised officers generally flipping into other roles at the drop of a hat.

You must have been watching a different Star Trek.

This sounds exactly like the Star Trek I watched. Only half the 8 security officers would be infected by an alien disease/entity/android/god in any given week and actively working against you.

This is true, but does the Captain look like they are having any fun during the proceedings? 

Is this different than your healer going for a smoke and not telling anyone?  Or your Mage refusing not to draw aggro? 

A bit, but in general the ability of one player to impede the rest of the group is limited in such things because the rest of the team can still act. However, if the Weapons Officer goes AWOL and combat starts, the rest of the team is screwed. It just depends on how many roles are required on the bridge, but the more Engineers you have, the less important each single Engineer is to the overall effort (as is the case for any role).

I still don't know about STO. It sounds like a lot of instancing (which I like) but how to make that meaningful to players who want the true exploration thing is a challenge. Unless STO randomly creates the universe as it goes, then remembers what it created. Which would be impressive, but I'm not sure how realistic it would be if 200 000 players all went exploring.

[UnSub]

If you are terraforming and colonizing the planet then presumably there isn't a pre-exisiting civilization on it, which is what the Prime Directive applies to. If there is, well sucks to be them then

Provided we're all clear on this 

[Signe]

I've read the thread and stuff.  I'm finding it hard to imagine a game I'm less interested in playing than this one.   I wasn't the biggest fan of the show, either, though I don't think that has anything to do with it.  I liked CoH and never read comic books.

[UnSub]

I'll believe it when I see it, but:

My question is whether the universe will be static. For example, if I log off World of Warcraft and then login a week later everything is pretty much still the same. Nothing has really changed. Will the world be dynamic in STO?

Zinc: The universe of Star Trek Online is shaped and changed by the actions of the players. The Federation and the Klingon Empire will be competing for influence and resources throughout the galaxy and players can influence the results through PvP battles and a system we're calling Competitive PvE.

The actions, victories and defeats of you and your faction will affect how the economy and history of Star Trek Online unfolds. Exploration is always happening – expect to see new planets and races discovered that were unknown the last time you logged in. Your actions could be the deciding factor on whether these new planets side with the Federation or the Klingons.

Also, a video interview with Jack Emmert that 1) covers off the basic info surrounding STO and 2) is a case study for why the guy with the camera has to watch what is going on behind the person he's interviewing. The guy in the kilt becomes very hard to ignore.

[Rishathra]

Arise!

Nothing directly gameplay related, but there's been a series of short "what's been going on in the galaxy for the past 30 years" articles posted on the main site.  If you like Star Trek at all, they make for an interesting read.

http://www.startrekonline.com/fiction

[Jack9]

Does it break Canon to have 65 warp gates, err wormholes around earth?  Maybe!

Not if it's simply represented by the Nexus. DUN DUN DUN!

[Jack9]

If you are terraforming and colonizing the planet then presumably there isn't a pre-exisiting civilization on it, which is what the Prime Directive applies to.

Prime Directive applies if it's a Non-Human (aka Alien) civ. Long lost human civs are still fair game. Where's the line between human and independently evolved near-human? who knows. Damn you Prime Directive!

[UnSub]

NYCC sees the release of a character creation promo. It's probably only exciting if you want to know all the ways in which you can customise the hairstyle and nose feature of your preferred race, but there does appear to be a lot of flexibility.

[Venkman]

Quick question for ya all:

How many people truly give a crap about the color of their eyes and the shape of the eyebrows? I mean, outside the character creation event that is.

I have yet to play in a world where anything smaller than the costume itself is noticable in even roleplay activities. Hairstyles with multiple-colors is a valid stretch to the next level of depth, but having fluid control over the height of my cheekbones? Even with AoC at max settings, I'm never playing so zoomed in to see which scar my opponent(s) have on their face.

So is this really just a big old waste of effort?

[Lantyssa]

How many people truly give a crap about the color of their eyes and the shape of the eyebrows? I mean, outside the character creation event that is.

So is this really just a big old waste of effort?

Sample size of one:  It matters to me.

[UnSub]

I like looking different to the characters around me.

Cheekbone sliders probably aren't important, but for STO where you might want to look more alien, it matters.

[Ghambit]

I've said this before in talking about the future of MMO design in that I believe designers will start getting away from 3D 1st-person perspectives and going back to a Diablo-style top-down view.  Reason being is also largely due to the fact that chargen is nearly useless unless you're the owner of the character.  If another player wishes to view your character they can simply click "inspect" and get a MUCH better rundown of who they're looking at, including a high-res 3d pictorial and extensive stats.  But in the gamesense I'm with Darniaq; it's useless in the gamespace.

Now, you STILL should have that customizability, but I dont agree that it should be visible (hence wasting bandwidth and pixels) on-the-fly in-game.  It's a wasted feature.

And just imagine how much quicker dev time will be if they stop catering to the 3d FPS crowd.  Shyt, there are pretty nice top-down game engines you can DL for free right now and make a decent RPG in pretty short order.  Layer some nice 3d cutscenes, charsheets, etc. and in many ways you can have a more visually appealing game than just a vanilla 3d-FP game.

Gauntlet ftw!