Factional warfare - empyrean age and all that – an overview

[lac]

link

So, we have this expansion coming out this summer called Empyrean Age. It's going to be pretty neat, and it's going to include this thing called Factional Warfare, which is a feature we've been talking about for a fair while now and is generally regarded as something of a big deal. Over the course of the next week or so I'm going to thrash out the fundamentals of the entire design in a series of blogs, starting with this one.

What is Factional Warfare?

This, in a way, is the biggest question of the lot, so we'll start here!

There are a lot of things that Factional Warfare could be. What it is, right now, is in its most basic form a gameplay bridge from high sec to null sec – from the safety of Empire to the wild lands of Alliance space. High sec and null sec have very differing communities of players with very divergent play styles, and while moving from one to the other is obviously possible, it's harder than it should be.

Factional Warfare provides a halfway house for players from Empire to get into the sandbox at the shallow end. It serves other functions too, for other types of player, but this is its primary function.

How does it work?

The core gameplay element of Factional Warfare is small-scale PvP combat. We believe that rounding up your posse, rolling out into contested space and having a healthy exchange of opinions and weapons fire with your sworn enemies is fun. Factional Warfare is designed to make this kind of experience accessible, with low entry requirements and a target-rich environment.

There will be two core drivers for this sort of combat. For those looking for direction, missions will be available, sending you on surgical strikes deep into enemy territory, battling through or sneaking past enemy players to reach the objective. For those who prefer to set their own goals, combat sites will be distributed throughout the warzones. Each site will be contestable by all sides involved in the conflict, with the winning side scoring both immediate rewards and points for their faction.

And what do points mean? Systems! As your faction racks up points in hostile systems, control will slowly swing into your favor, until eventually you're given the opportunity to occupy the system outright. Of course, the enemy's trying to do the same to your systems, so a good defense as well as well as a strong offense will be needed if you want your adopted faction to prevail and dominate!

Is that all?

Pfah! Is that not enough? But no, that's not everything. Ranks, intel screens, a lot of NPC tags and so on are all part of the design. But that's all for future blogs, so watch this space…

Oh, and Black Rise

One last little thing, when we were sketching out the combat areas for all this stuff, we kept running into one brick wall in particular: Caldari low sec space, well, kind of sucks.

Specifically, there isn't much of it, and what there is, is mostly in the wrong place (i.e. well away from the Gallente border). This is, for a system which needs decent expanses of lowsec space between the Empires, a problem. So we looked at the map and decided that there was room for a bit more.

It seemed like a picture would do most of the explaining for me, so there we go. It's Caldari-owned and mostly low sec, some new stations, some new agents, asteroid belts, some ice fields, all the gubbins. The Cloud Ring system just off-screen is W-4NUU, the other connections you should be able to figure out yourselves. For more details, keep an eye out for news on Singularity updates, as you should be able to explore it all yourselves in the near future.



This is incidentally, as some of you will realize, the first actual region we've added since the original universe was generated, which made it an, uh, interesting project. Most of the actual work was done by Prism X, who took the pile of spreadsheets we generated, did a whole load of wizardry which I don't claim to begin to understand, and gave us some new space to play in. Please direct all praise regarding this rather fine achievement in his general direction.

Has anyone seen my barber?

It's traditional now that we get a quote in somewhere for blogs about Factional Warfare, so I'll leave you with this little gem from Russell.

"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."

[Viin]

Interesting, thanks.

[Jayce]

Seems like we know a little more (making use of lowsec, ++ to that) but that the implementation is still a possible dud.

It sounds like it will be possible to claim lowsec, but not via POS, but rather via some "points" system.  That could easily devolve into a "who hath more catasses" situation. 

What does "claiming space" mean in this context I wonder?  In nullsec it's almost more of a marker of the place where you mine, rat, etc.  In lowsec (I gather) it will be a question of how far the factional empire space extends, but who really cares? Will there be gate guns and empire navy on the gates that shoot at non-factioned folks?  If not, it seems like a silly exercise.

[Viin]

Maybe they will add more things of worth to lowsec, so if you can secure the area that means more area for your faction to have "safer" access to those good ore spawns, rats, etc.

Otherwise, why bother?

[Stephen Zepp]

Seems like we know a little more (making use of lowsec, ++ to that) but that the implementation is still a possible dud.

It sounds like it will be possible to claim lowsec, but not via POS, but rather via some "points" system.  That could easily devolve into a "who hath more catasses" situation. 

What does "claiming space" mean in this context I wonder?  In nullsec it's almost more of a marker of the place where you mine, rat, etc.  In lowsec (I gather) it will be a question of how far the factional empire space extends, but who really cares? Will there be gate guns and empire navy on the gates that shoot at non-factioned folks?  If not, it seems like a silly exercise.

I think you may be looking at it from the perspective of someone that already uses, and likes null space for PvP.

Their main idea here is to get PvE folks fighting each other--not jump them directly into full on null space requirements (pos'--therefore fueling, etc). I imagine that the reason for controlling space is simply for the mission generator to have places to identify as targets for probe/attack missions, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all (although it could have a 'we win the lowsec' issue if a faction winds up having no controlled spaces, and therefore can't have missions run against them).

It does have some loopholes I think, but overall the combination of giving mission rewards (something PvE folks are used to) for running PvP missions, and at least some form of semi-persistence (controlled space) is a pretty good compromise to get folks into more PvP--I know I'd be interested in it!

[Hakeldaima]

What does "claiming space" mean in this context I wonder?  In nullsec it's almost more of a marker of the place where you mine, rat, etc.  In lowsec (I gather) it will be a question of how far the factional empire space extends, but who really cares? Will there be gate guns and empire navy on the gates that shoot at non-factioned folks?  If not, it seems like a silly exercise.

I imagine that flipping a system will open stations/agents/complexes to the winning side, although that is pure conjecture on my part. This will also tie into the whole "get the carebears to pvp" idea.

My corpmates and I are kind of miffed that our kind of RP (anarcho-capitalist, against all the empire factions) isn't likely to be supported by factional warfare, at least until/if we are able to work with the Thukkers or Angel Cartel (they are not pure anarchists, but close enough). It's not a huge deal as we will still be able to wardec the corps fighting the factional war and shoot faces, but still...

[eldaec]

All this talk of points worries me a bit.

Also, as Viin said, not sure why I care about the owner of lowsec (other than opportunities it provides to burn heretic Minmatar scum, of which there are plenty elsewhere).

Finally I'm not sure that this does open up pvp to beginners.

Current barriers to pvp:

1) Needing to form gangs with likeminded individuals who you already know. PUGs are not practical or even safe in EVE.
No word on how factional warfare will help this.

2) Finding someone to fight.
Factional warfare will help here....

3) Finding a group to fight who are reasonably equally matched.
....but not here.

[Endie]

It looks like sport pvp, a la WoW, but with CCP's usual desire to have some consequences meaning it is disguised as RvR. If done right it could be great for BAT, done wrong it will b a wierd mix of all those forms. But I like change and options, and from our position in 0.0 it is an extra, anyway. It might giv frigate club more targets...

[ajax34i]

Yeah, except I'm not sure I want to gain faction with Amarr and lose faction with Gallente and Minmatar, seeing how I am Gallente, fly Gallente ships (and will want to fly Caldari too), and hate slavery (and piracy).  As a matter of fact, if I stay neutral to all, I can theoretically enter all empires, none of the headaches of unavailable space.

[Murgos]

My corpmates and I are kind of miffed that our kind of RP (anarcho-capitalist, against all the empire factions) isn't likely to be supported by factional warfare, at least until/if we are able to work with the Thukkers or Angel Cartel (they are not pure anarchists, but close enough). It's not a huge deal as we will still be able to wardec the corps fighting the factional war and shoot faces, but still...

Uh, I'm wondering if you're missing the point on the whole anarchy thing.  Cause you know, anarchy kind of implies that any established government is going to look at you as a threat.

So, really, it seems to me that this dilemma is the exact right outcome of your decision...

[Hakeldaima]

Well, the point being that as far as we know there is no "just go in, shoot everyone, remove all sovereignty from a system and turn it into a libertarian utopia filled with unicorns and butterflies" option - you have to be rooting for one faction or the other in order to participate in factional warfare. Any system you take away from Amarr flips either to the Minmatar or Gallente empires (again, conjecture).

It would be lovely to be able to shoot Amarrians (via the factional warfare mechanism) without having to sign up with the Republic or Federation Navies, or vice versa. It's not a huge deal for us as we can wardec player corps who are fighting factional warfare, but it could be better as far as we are concerned.

[Viin]

I see your point, but that's really what 0.0 is for.

[ajax34i]

Well, interdiction (the "shoot everyone, destroy everything" part) is kinda against the spirit of getting the carebears to participate in PVP more, so I doubt they'll allow it.  And even if they do make it possible for you to somehow subtract points from everyone by killing them, so that all empires have 0 points and 0 sov. in a system, you'll be fighting against the rest of the playerbase, with all factions red to you and not letting you dock to resupply. 

Metagame via alts, then, same old same old.

[Hakeldaima]

I see your point, but that's really what 0.0 is for.

I'm heading into RP nerd territory (although, with BAT a member of AM I should be relatively flameproof from that direction ) when I say that, as an RP anarchist outfit, SF regards the empire factions (State, Federation, Republic and Empire) the biggest and meanest baddies around. The player (capsuleer) run empires in 0.0 are, in our view, pale imitations of the real deal. Therefore we would like to be able to wardec the Amarr empire f.ex. If the factional warfare system simply allowed for you to pick someone to fight against, without having to pick another side to fight for, that would be lovely.

Ending up red to all empire factions and not being able to dock anywhere in secure space...well that's how existence should be for a bunch of latex-wearing anarcho-loonies. I mean, we were based in Amarr (the system) when fighting PIE, AM, VV and CVA last fall. Of course we should have been KOS to every Amarr npc gunboat in the system, but weren't.

Anywho, like I said, this isn't a huge deal for us as players as we can work around the system or just fight someone in 0.0, and I think you guys are right in thinking FW won't be designed the way I describe it.

[Phildo]

I reserve the right to flame Ahrrrrpeeing regardless of my own personal activities.  I just go where the corp tells me to go.

Amarr Victor?

[Simond]

Caldari = zerg.
No, seriously - the number of Caldari players is twice the numbers of all three other races combined or something equally ridiculous.

[Hakeldaima]

Caldari = zerg.
No, seriously - the number of Caldari players is twice the numbers of all three other races combined or something equally ridiculous.

And 90% of those are Achura. I blame this tbh.

I kid. Apparently people were calling EVE "Caldari Online" before it became cool to call it "Capital Ships Online".

*Edit - just to explain this uncharacteristic postcount of mine tonight - it's my birthday and I'm still stuck at work (almost midnight here  ) and somehow I'd rather fuck about on the internet than do my job. I'll go back to my usual lurkie self tomorrow. Did I use that smiley correctly?

[JoeTF]

But Caldari ships suck big time. I know something about it, my mains have 20M SP in them:( It would balance out and noone said that you cannot work for other empire.

Two issues I see here:

1) How the hell they're going to prevent pirates (and pirate-wannabies) camping lowsec entry gates 24/7 and killing every newbie that tries to enter? CCP_Grayscale talks about sneaking, but I think he forgot that EVE doesn't have any sneaking mechanisms built in (covert ops don't tank well, Black Ops are veeeery hi-end and would require cynoship anyway and snaked crows cost a bit too much for typical empire dweller)?

2) Joining FW makes youf fair game everywhere (even Jita) for anyone else who signed into FW, which makes signing in a really big and nasty commitment. You either  sign in quasi permanently, or you sign in, kill someone and sign out before they get a chance to get their revenge. Both options suck, so how they gonna solve that?

[Nerf]

With battlegrounds, I hope.  They could even go a step further and have certain battlegrounds with fitted ships (with no skill reqs, but with bonus') provided, so quite literally anyone could join in the fun.

[Jayce]

Ugh, battlegrounds.  I will vomit if they introduce battlegrounds.  Then probably quit.

[apocrypha]

But Caldari ships suck big time.

Except, if a lot of FW is going to happen in deadspace complexes - where MWDs don't work - then Caldari ships are a lot less sucky. Drakes for instance can be a lot more useful in an MWD-free environment, Rokh's can pack a serious punch if not totally out-maneuvered, Falcon's always useful in a mixed pvp fleet, and I can see a carefully fitted torp raven being very useful in this kind of situation.

Totally agree with your other two points though, I'm intrigued to see if they even attempt to address those issues.

Gatecamps, if CCP ignore them, could end up as being focal points for the actual warfare. If people organise within the factions and work together to share intel across corps/alliances then gatecamps can be smashed pretty easily. If factional control of the border systems adds gate sentries and npcs to aid keeping gates clear then that might work too.

As for being a target anywhere, well, I forsee a lot of alts being used one way or another 

[Endie]

It sounds to me like battlefields, with lowsec the location and signing up removing sec hits. Of course, that would do fuck all to get lowsec used without pretty substantial incentives. It all moves away from sandbox and toward game.

[lac]

For those who prefer to set their own goals, combat sites will be distributed throughout the warzones. Each site will be contestable by all sides involved in the conflict, with the winning side scoring both immediate rewards and points for their faction.

This looks like battlegrounds all right. Floating structures that become contested every X hours and require one faction dominating the grid to be won.

Missions will be available, sending you on surgical strikes deep into enemy territory, battling through or sneaking past enemy players to reach the objective.

This looks like it's just missions in enemy low-sec. It's low-sec AND it's enemy territory. That's more dangerous than the pve-unpopular low-sec we have right now. If this isn't very lucrative it will be very fail in attracting carebears.

[apocrypha]

This looks like it's just missions in enemy low-sec. It's low-sec AND it's enemy territory. That's more dangerous than the pve-unpopular low-sec we have right now. If this isn't very lucrative it will be very fail in attracting carebears.

And if it IS very lucrative it'll be dominated by the large alliances and experienced pvp corps and still keep the bears out...   

[Jayce]

It all moves away from sandbox and toward game.

Exactly. Thanks for elucidating where my nausea comes from.

Believe me, there are better MMOGs if you're looking for game.  At least, there are better UIs.

[lac]

It's not that they remove the sandbox, they just put in some 'game'. If it helps to populate low-sec a bit and maybe give empire dwellers a taste of pvp it will improve the sandbox in the end.

[Gets]

http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/video/2/empyrean_age_teaser_1280x720.wmv

Kamikaze motherships? I know some players have way too much ISK, but 

[Predator Irl]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't empire space already the sandbox?

The whole reason people stay in there is because they don't want to get involved in 0.0 combat. Introducing a middle-ground just makes a mockery of the whole security rating system.

If they want to make things interesting, why don't they police low sec? Not with Uber unstoppable, inescapable concord, but something that will make the average pirate have to run for cover

[caladein]

It's not that they remove the sandbox, they just put in some 'game'. If it helps to populate low-sec a bit and maybe give empire dwellers a taste of pvp it will improve the sandbox in the end.

That's the key thing.  There is no "introduction" into PvP outside of a corporation (stumbling into low sec and getting suicide ganked don't count).

CCP wants to provide a fun, manageable-size intro into PvP (a lot like Endie did for most of us) because you don't want some new player's "first time" to be Slay .

[ajax34i]

If they want to make things interesting, why don't they police low sec? Not with Uber unstoppable, inescapable concord, but something that will make the average pirate have to run for cover.

There's no average pirate, there's no average player.  As with Concord in the early days, players will do whatever is neccessary to defeat whatever level of AI/firepower the NPC's have, and then everyone stays above that.

The game is too old to still believe that it's possible to convince the sheep to enter lowsec.  So if only wolves are in the area, CCP figures "let's give them reasons to fight each other."

[HRose]

That's the key thing.  There is no "introduction" into PvP outside of a corporation (stumbling into low sec and getting suicide ganked don't count).

CCP wants to provide a fun, manageable-size intro into PvP (a lot like Endie did for most of us) because you don't want some new player's "first time" to be Slay .

I know that I would subscribe for this.

But what if this becomes Trammel/Fellucca all over again? What if Eve becomes a good game for quick PvP at no loss (as your faction provides you the "weapon set" to use in the fight, so with minimal losses).

What if they give you a protected space where to fight, obtaining that a lot of players move there and leave the more risky zero sec space?

[ajax34i]

We shall see what they implement and what the effects are.

[Viin]

Leaving 0.0 would be very unlikely unless they made lowsec as fantastic as 0.0 .. which I doubt would ever happen, as the #1 goal of CCP seems to be to get everyone into 0.0.

[Phildo]

Aside from that, who would complain about lowering the population density in 0.0?

[Simond]

Empyrean Age trailer