Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Sjofn]

That is awesome.

[Segoris]

Nah, if it were active before then it would discourage you from experimenting with skills as you leveled. They don't want to punish you for trying new shiny.

That doesn't sound right since think about how many hours you'll play to finish each of your levels in the 50s. It seems like it would take hours per level based on a dev post I saw (post said normal campaign was roughly 30hours if I remember right). So disallowing that buff to only be usable by those that are level 60 is still dumb since by that point you aren't likely to be switching for new abilities very often since you'll know what abilities do what and how you want to use them since there's only a couple more to gain. It would be punishing early on, sure, but not after level 40 or 45 or so.

Of course this is all estimating since I don't know how it works in practice, but in theory it doesn't sound that great with the level 60 restriction.

[SurfD]

Hmm, apparently the Nephalem Valor Buff only kicks in at level 60.  Now that IS stupid. 

Nah, if it were active before then it would discourage you from experimenting with skills as you leveled. They don't want to punish you for trying new shiny.

Also, it is sort of there as an incentive to promote map clearing (Ie, a semi artifical time sink).

Pre 60, you have the EXP incentive to encourage map clearing, but once exp gain stops at 60, this will help reward map clearing instead of just strait boss runs.

Also, I don't really see much point in worrying about weather people want to rush through quest-boss-quest repeat style, skipping anything not on the path to the prize VS killing everything that moves on every square inch of dungeon real-estate, especially during the leveling stages of Normal / Nightmare.   Speed-running through normal and then repeating the final act once or twice before moving on to Nightmare might be more time efficient then "full clearing" normal from the very beginning, but who knows?

Hell, most people will probably run the entire Normal difficulty solo or only with very good friends, simply so they dont have random-internet-dickwad#152 skipping all their cutscenes / dialogue / other stuff on the first playthrough.

[Segoris]

Also, it is sort of there as an incentive to promote map clearing (Ie, a semi artifical time sink).

Pre 60, you have the EXP incentive to encourage map clearing, but once exp gain stops at 60, this will help reward map clearing instead of just strait boss runs.

That seems a bit more of a reason to have that buff at 60, but not why it shouldn't be at a lower level

Hell, most people will probably run the entire Normal difficulty solo or only with very good friends, simply so they dont have random-internet-dickwad#152 skipping all their cutscenes / dialogue / other stuff on the first playthrough.

I know that's my plan, and after that I'll turn into random-internet-dickwad#152    Of course, that's only when I'm with someone that is a total random/stranger/pug

[Dren]

Hell, most people will probably run the entire Normal difficulty solo or only with very good friends, simply so they dont have random-internet-dickwad#152 skipping all their cutscenes / dialogue / other stuff on the first playthrough.

This.

[Dren]

Has it been said that you cannot progress past level 30 without increasing difficulty? I thought it was only implied that it was the most linear way to level through the campaign. If you're still getting xp for finishing quests, I'd think that means you can level higher without upping the difficulty but it would just take a bit longer as a trade off of being easier. If this is the case, and players can go over level 30 by repeating the Normal mode, then no content is missed evn when counting skills & runs as content.

Maybe I'm wrong but that is what it's always seemed like to me.

I assume it will be like D2.  You'll run into a cap where even the highest level content in Normal will stop progressing you past some point.  Then you'll be forced to go to the next difficulty level.  However, that doesn't mean you have to group or change your playstyle at all.  It is just the next level of progression with exactly the same content (maps, npcs, quests,) that you just went through on Normal.  Why anyone would hit some kind of player skill level hurdle they can't get over is boggling to me.  If you do, you really aren't trying very hard.

[ezrast]

So you [think you could have] finished hell with your first D2 character?

[Malakili]

So you [think you could have] finished hell with your first D2 character?

With free respecs, sure.

[Ingmar]

I would hope there are no gotchas in D3 like the resists thing in D2.

[Tannhauser]

I'll be going solo in Normal mode and won't get near any MP.  Unfortunate I won't get any skills past level 30 but at least I get to see the content and finish the story.  Besides there's a small chance I dabble in Nightmare but I'll probably be bored long before that.

The skill trees are fine to me, with only 30 levels I'll be pretty happy mixing and matching skills since you get at least one a level.  I think I'm OK with this arrangement.  Unless I am missing something. Also looking forward to the crafting.

Strange the Wizard has very little fire spells, but I'm salivating at the chance to use Disintergrate!  Turns out I like the ray spells. Sweep and clear, sweep and clear.

[Segoris]

I assume it will be like D2.  You'll run into a cap where even the highest level content in Normal will stop progressing you past some point.  Then you'll be forced to go to the next difficulty level.  However, that doesn't mean you have to group or change your playstyle at all.  It is just the next level of progression with exactly the same content (maps, npcs, quests,) that you just went through on Normal.  Why anyone would hit some kind of player skill level hurdle they can't get over is boggling to me.  If you do, you really aren't trying very hard.

If that really is the case then yeah that sucks, hopefully not

[Malakili]

I assume it will be like D2.  You'll run into a cap where even the highest level content in Normal will stop progressing you past some point.  Then you'll be forced to go to the next difficulty level.  However, that doesn't mean you have to group or change your playstyle at all.  It is just the next level of progression with exactly the same content (maps, npcs, quests,) that you just went through on Normal.  Why anyone would hit some kind of player skill level hurdle they can't get over is boggling to me.  If you do, you really aren't trying very hard.

If that really is the case then yeah that sucks, hopefully not

What is the problem with this? 

[Ragnoros]

If D3 is anything like Diablo 2 than the end of normal will be harder than the beginning of nightmare.

I remember when I was a noob I got cockblocked by normal Diablo and had to farm gear/levels for some time to beat him. Nightmare or no, Fallen were not exactly threats.

D3 may not follow the same pattern, but I would not be surprised to find act 4 normal harder than act 1 nightmare.

[K9]

I'll be going solo in Normal mode and won't get near any MP.  Unfortunate I won't get any skills past level 30 but at least I get to see the content and finish the story.  Besides there's a small chance I dabble in Nightmare but I'll probably be bored long before that.

The skill trees are fine to me, with only 30 levels I'll be pretty happy mixing and matching skills since you get at least one a level.  I think I'm OK with this arrangement.  Unless I am missing something. Also looking forward to the crafting.

Strange the Wizard has very little fire spells, but I'm salivating at the chance to use Disintergrate!  Turns out I like the ray spells. Sweep and clear, sweep and clear.

I'll be in the same boat more or less; from what I have read it seems like the difficulty curve going into higher difficulties won't be quite as steep as in D2. Only time will tell though.

[Dren]

So you [think you could have] finished hell with your first D2 character?

With free respecs, sure.

This (always got stuck due to improper use of attribute points) and the fact I just got bored and only got a few chars just into hell.  I just kept creating new chars and trying different approaches.  I also dabbled in hardcore, which was, well, hardcore and never got very high.  I assume it will be much the same again and I'm still looking forward to it.  I'll get my money's worth.  Plus, there's crafting!

Edit:  I played nearly 100% solo too.  I didn't like the multiplayer of D2.  I do like the setup in D3.  Another bonus.

[Segoris]

I assume it will be like D2.  You'll run into a cap where even the highest level content in Normal will stop progressing you past some point.  Then you'll be forced to go to the next difficulty level.  However, that doesn't mean you have to group or change your playstyle at all.  It is just the next level of progression with exactly the same content (maps, npcs, quests,) that you just went through on Normal.  Why anyone would hit some kind of player skill level hurdle they can't get over is boggling to me.  If you do, you really aren't trying very hard.

If that really is the case then yeah that sucks, hopefully not

What is the problem with this? 

The problem is why should it stop progressing someone at all at any point on normal? I am in no way saying it should be as fast as it would be on higher difficulties, but it should progress some.

[SurfD]

The problem is why should it stop progressing someone at all at any point on normal? I am in no way saying it should be as fast as it would be on higher difficulties, but it should progress some.

The problem comes down to the design mentality of the Diablo team I guess.  They want you to progress to the next difficulty level to keep advancing at some point.  To a certain extent, it is kind of like asking why you can't simply grind level 10 mobs all the way to 85 in a game like WoW.  Sure, if they changed it so that you still got full exp off of Grey mobs, you could (it would take you an INSANE amount of time, but you could), but that would defeat the purpose of all the "new content" you are supposed to be experienceing after level 10.

To them, your play experience in normal is "done" when you reach level 30 (or maybe 32 or whenever the mobs stop), and they want you to move on to bigger and better things, instead of killing level 10 rats at level 50 just because you can.

[Flinky]

Nah, if it were active before then it would discourage you from experimenting with skills as you leveled. They don't want to punish you for trying new shiny.

So disallowing that buff to only be usable by those that are level 60 is still dumb since by that point you aren't likely to be switching for new abilities very often since you'll know what abilities do what and how you want to use them since there's only a couple more to gain. It would be punishing early on, sure, but not after level 40 or 45 or so.

According to the skill calculators currently available, even once you reach level 30 you still have 72 skill runes to unlock on the way to level 60. When you're gaining roughly two new runes a level, losing a (possible) stacking loot bonus just because you want to see how a new rune effects a skill you might already be using does not sound like a helpful design.

[Malakili]

The problem is why should it stop progressing someone at all at any point on normal? I am in no way saying it should be as fast as it would be on higher difficulties, but it should progress some.

This is really standard in RPGs.  Monsters which are lower level than you don't give you much.   The difference between 0 exp and 10 exp is basically nothing when you need 5 million exp to level.  If you seriously want to sit there and kill 500,000 trivial monsters to level instead of just going and killing some stuff that is your level then I'm baffled.  

A serious question - why are you so concerned about staying in normal mode instead of going to nightmare?  Nightmare mode is supposed to get you up to ~level 50 and it isn't going to arbitrarily ramp up in difficulty the way the end of hell and inferno will.  It would surprise me if it was any harder to hit max level in Diablo 3 than it is in WoW.  You're going to be able to level up, killing level appropriate things the entire time.  

In fact, I think this is one of the reasons they added Inferno as an entirely separate difficulty level which STARTS at max level, because they wanted the non hardcore to be able to reach max level by just playing up through the first three difficulty levels.  Judging from what they've said, only the very end of Hell is going to be real tough, and you'll certainly be able to hit level 60 without killing the final boss there...

[Musashi]

Dude.  The people you're talking to in this thread have lost their goddamn minds.  It's like it's a race to see who can most accurately doomcast, and somehow claim something approximating a victory.  It's, like, mega-ridic.

This game is good, at the very least.  Maybe it's great.  That's pretty much all we know until the end game is fleshed out.  It may well be that, as is often the case with balance, when things are more gruelingly tested under the stress of the unwashed masses, things unforeseen will come to light that must be addressed.  But stop speculating until you get there, or apparently in some cases, decide it's too hard and bite your pillow.

[Segoris]

Snip

I have no intention of staying in normal mode, only stating I'm not a fan of discouraging people to do so if that's where they're comfortable. For my personal play style, I like playing on tougher difficulties so this isn't an issue for me. That doesn't mean I have to be a fan of it entirely and am simply stating an opinion based on an observation from my armchair while stroking my neckbeard (which apparently is now called doomcasting and having lost my goddamn mind somehow).

As for killing 500,000 trivial monsters, isn't that what happens in this game? Who cares if people still gain low amounts of xp while doing so.

The problem comes down to the design mentality of the Diablo team I guess.  They want you to progress to the next difficulty level to keep advancing at some point.  To a certain extent, it is kind of like asking why you can't simply grind level 10 mobs all the way to 85 in a game like WoW.  Sure, if they changed it so that you still got full exp off of Grey mobs, you could (it would take you an INSANE amount of time, but you could), but that would defeat the purpose of all the "new content" you are supposed to be experienceing after level 10.

To them, your play experience in normal is "done" when you reach level 30 (or maybe 32 or whenever the mobs stop), and they want you to move on to bigger and better things, instead of killing level 10 rats at level 50 just because you can.

I get that, I just don't see what's so great about it if people enjoy that sort of thing. If the story is compelling enough, and people enjoy it enough to move on then worrying about them replaying the first 10 levels and nothing else wouldn't be a problem or a concern.

According to the skill calculators currently available, even once you reach level 30 you still have 72 skill runes to unlock on the way to level 60. When you're gaining roughly two new runes a level, losing a (possible) stacking loot bonus just because you want to see how a new rune effects a skill you might already be using does not sound like a helpful design.

I don't see a big deal with it since at higher levels you'll be a certain level for a much longer period of time and will spend less time switching specs around

[Phred]

I get that, I just don't see what's so great about it if people enjoy that sort of thing. If the story is compelling enough, and people enjoy it enough to move on then worrying about them replaying the first 10 levels and nothing else wouldn't be a problem or a concern.

Compelling story? Are we talking about the same game? You don't play diablo for the thin story stretched over the loot whoring.

[Segoris]

Compelling story? Are we talking about the same game? You don't play diablo for the thin story stretched over the loot whoring.

Compelling story is interchangable with whatever you feel as motivation to move past your current area given the context of what it was replying to, because no it isn't some amazing story.

[Phred]

Here, it's called the Nephalem Valor Buff

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476#1

There's more to it in the link, but the basis is as follows:

Here’s how it currently works internally: Rare and Champion packs already have great loot on them. By killing a Rare or Champion pack, not only do you get their loot, but you’ll also receive a buff granting you increased magic find and gold find. However, if you change a skill, skill rune, passive, or leave the game, the buff disappears. As an extra reward, if you kill a boss while this buff is active, you’ll receive extra loot drops from that boss.

Just wanted to follow up on this. Are you sure it's the Valor buff because what was linked specifically says the effect was only on the boss of that map, while the valor buff is a continuing buff.

[Segoris]

I'm not sure what you're asking if I'm sure about. You asked Mala if there were any links for a dev stating that Bliz is encouraging exploration and killing more than just an end boss in a map. He linked the post from 3/7 saying they are working on a system that ties rare/champs to boss kills. Then I followed up with linking Bashiok's 3/21 post giving a summary of the current state (at the time) of the buff with its name. Both were discussing linking rares/champs to boss kills, one had more detail. The valor buff is said to be in testing still with whether or not it is a persistent buff, if it can stack, does it have a duration, the % of magic find, etc. So the buff isn't definitely a continuing buff but both links are discussing the same thing.

So what's to be sure of or what are you asking for more clarification on, or did I answer it in explaining the posts?

[Phred]

I'm asking if you are sure the buff is what the first post morphed into. As it didn't sound remotely  like the buff I thought it might have been a separate project. It seems strange a design to encourage killing more elite packs would turn into an endgame, continuous buff to magic find in general.

 

[Segoris]

I look at both of the links and see very similar things, as both are talking about tying elites to the bosses, only with the later post going into more details. It doesn't seem strange to me at all.

[Malakili]

I'm asking if you are sure the buff is what the first post morphed into. As it didn't sound remotely  like the buff I thought it might have been a separate project. It seems strange a design to encourage killing more elite packs would turn into an endgame, continuous buff to magic find in general.

 

I believe it resets when you leave a game, so it is only a session based buff, if I understand correctly.  But yes, they are the same project.

[Musashi]

So is the buff relative to how many cumulative bosses/rare or champion packs I've killed?  Or do I just have to go gank another champion after I change skills, before I do the boss?

[Segoris]

I don't think that's been known for sure yet since the buff was still in testing as of the last update

[FieryBalrog]

AFAIK the buff only applies at max level anyway. So it wouldn't affect "trying out this new rune I just unlocked".

[Samprimary]

This game is good, at the very least.  Maybe it's great.  That's pretty much all we know until the end game is fleshed out.

Seriously electrocute looks terrible, game will be massive failure.

[Malakili]

http://www.gamespot.com/diablo-iii/videos/perfectly-executed-diablo-iii-interview-with-jay-wilson-6374413/

Video with Jay Wilson, just some thoughts on the general game before it comes out.  Interesting but no revelations.

[Malakili]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/services/auction-house/how-to

Auction House details.

[Paelos]

Asia - No real-money auction house available at launch